Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian Sheppard on June 08, 2011, 09:09:01 am
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Hi All
I am Ian Sheppard from Spring (Europe) ltd formerly Crow Electro. We make the 3 button digital pump controller sold via distributors in various guises. I am here to get a feel for all the professionals up and down the country who are using this kit.
I am interested in feed back and suggestions re future development and to try answer any technical issues you may have. I :)
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I have a varifow digital on 70mtrs of micro bore, but can only get 2 flow settings to work ??? Would your pump controller eliminate this issue and give me much more variety in rates? And is it the same as the one Gardiners sell by any chance? Thanks
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Ian, i have been using one of your pumps for 8 months, and its been great, perhaps the lack of replies is because no one has had problems with them?
nic, i run one of ian controller with 100m microbore and it works fine on any setting with pencil jets, and it has adjustment from 1-99, so there will be a setting to suit you
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I have one of the liquid logic variety. It works well, I like the voltage meter and the fact that you can calibrate the pump easily. The autocal feature never worked but the manual calibration was easy enough.
It would be good that when the controller pulses the pump every 2 seconds or so that it does a soft start up pulse instead of pulsing full throttle. Other that that I'm pretty impressed with it.
Simon.
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OK Lee , thanks, I'll splash out on one ;D
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the remote idea sounds like it could be a good idea if it could be easily mounted on the pole.
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Thanks for the clarification Ian. The remote idea sounds promising, I'll keep a look out for that development.
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The remote sounds like a good idea if, the range is far enough.
Ive got a remote, that came from gardiners, they dont sell them anymore ??
Its not very good.
If you could develope a remote, with an easy on/off Action and a 100m range, incl through buildings.
You may be onto a winner
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i have one of the controllers, good peice of kit i have mine set to 40 unless its a first clean when i turn it up a bit,
dont know how it could be improved ???
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No problem its good to know that the controller is doing what you expect of it.
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what about a controller that tells you work time/work time left in battery?
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Hi Ian, I bought one a couple of months ago direct from crow to replace my 5 year old dial type one . This was only because the dial one was not compatible with my new vyair pump. I'm happy with it but I'd have to say I much preferred the non digital "volume style" dial unit and its simplicity - easier and quicker to switch on/off and set to pre-marked speeds. Maybe I'm alone on this one but I just dont like digital or the buttons, sorry :-[
Simon
have to say though that crows products are robust and well built, better than the competition (you know who) ;)
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what about a controller that tells you work time/work time left in battery?
what about a controller that tells you how much money you have made ;D
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what about a controller that tells you work time/work time left in battery?
what about a controller that tells you how much money you have made ;D
I've a CONTROLLER that does that already...........................................and spends it for me ::) :D ;D
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Lee
I always though a controller that tells how much money you make was called The Wife :)
Alan as for life left in battery sounds a good idea I will feed that one back to the guys at the factory.
Interesting comments coming digital verse analogue be good to see more comments on it.
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HI Sherwoodcleaning
Q. Can a soft start function be added to the unit when being used at max flow rate.
A.At the moment it is not possible to set up the V9 for a soft start i.e. a ramp up of the pump to the last set value. However it would be possible to update the controller software to do this. If this is a popular option people can send their controllers back for re-programming as long as they are the latest V9 version. Cost would be approximately £30.00.
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Steven
There is a Remote version of the V9 Controller which is available from your usual stockists.
We recommend that The aerial is mounted as high in the vehicle as possible ideally through the roof. all the cables and flanges are supplied with installation instructions. A roof mount aerial will give a clear signal remote to Controller through Buildings Ect. The toggle remote allows you to control the flow rate 0 - 99.
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A suggestion re Radio control version of the V9. At the moment it is supplied with the radio aerial kit Ect and we recommend it goes on the roof so a hole needs drilling. how about a Magnetic mount fitting? No holes + no issue with range of getting a signal thru buildings
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ive used more than a few of these controllers and they dont last very long, for some reason they burn out or fail. the last one i bought lasted about 4 months!!!! was told by a supplier to send back however i have lost the address, any chance i could send back to you?
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ive used more than a few of these controllers and they dont last very long, for some reason they burn out or fail. the last one i bought lasted about 4 months!!!! was told by a supplier to send back however i have lost the address, any chance i could send back to you?
Sure no problem its
Spring Europe Ltd (Formerly Crow Electro)
9A Connors Yard
Crowborough Hill
Crowborough
East Sussex
TN6 2DA
Pop a letter in with it outlining the issues with the controller and we will have a look
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A suggestion re Radio control version of the V9. At the moment it is supplied with the radio aerial kit Ect and we recommend it goes on the roof so a hole needs drilling. how about a Magnetic mount fitting? No holes + no issue with range of getting a signal thru buildings
Yes, that would be great!
I use a digital varistream which hasn't missed a beat in about 3 years BUT I would change controller for the remote function.
Personally, I think I would prefer a pocket or maybe wristband remote unit, rather than pole mounted. ;)
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HI Sherwoodcleaning
Q. Can a soft start function be added to the unit when being used at max flow rate.
A.At the moment it is not possible to set up the V9 for a soft start i.e. a ramp up of the pump to the last set value. However it would be possible to update the controller software to do this. If this is a popular option people can send their controllers back for re-programming as long as they are the latest V9 version. Cost would be approximately £30.00.
I would be up for that. Mine is a liquid logic purchased from gardiners about 18 months ago. I'd probably be interested in another at some point to replace my old mk2 varistream.
Simon.
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A suggestion re Radio control version of the V9. At the moment it is supplied with the radio aerial kit Ect and we recommend it goes on the roof so a hole needs drilling. how about a Magnetic mount fitting? No holes + no issue with range of getting a signal thru buildings
Yes, that would be great!
I use a digital varistream which hasn't missed a beat in about 3 years BUT I would change controller for the remote function.
Personally, I think I would prefer a pocket or maybe wristband remote unit, rather than pole mounted. ;)
Thats an easy one the radio control version V9 available through the usual distributors has a 2 butoon key fob that controls the flow rate 0 - 99
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HI Sherwoodcleaning
Q. Can a soft start function be added to the unit when being used at max flow rate.
A.At the moment it is not possible to set up the V9 for a soft start i.e. a ramp up of the pump to the last set value. However it would be possible to update the controller software to do this. If this is a popular option people can send their controllers back for re-programming as long as they are the latest V9 version. Cost would be approximately £30.00.
Simon I have emailed you directly with address details should you want to go ahead and have you controller upgraded.
I would be up for that. Mine is a liquid logic purchased from gardiners about 18 months ago. I'd probably be interested in another at some point to replace my old mk2 varistream.
Simon.
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A suggestion re Radio control version of the V9. At the moment it is supplied with the radio aerial kit Ect and we recommend it goes on the roof so a hole needs drilling. how about a Magnetic mount fitting? No holes + no issue with range of getting a signal thru buildings
Yes, that would be great!
I use a digital varistream which hasn't missed a beat in about 3 years BUT I would change controller for the remote function.
Personally, I think I would prefer a pocket or maybe wristband remote unit, rather than pole mounted. ;)
Thats an easy one the radio control version V9 available through the usual distributors has a 2 butoon key fob that controls the flow rate 0 - 99
What about the aerial?
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Currently I know the aerials are drill through roof fittings, I do not see a big issue substituting these with a mag mount aerial. watch these space. :)
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A suggestion re Radio control version of the V9. At the moment it is supplied with the radio aerial kit Ect and we recommend it goes on the roof so a hole needs drilling. how about a Magnetic mount fitting? No holes + no issue with range of getting a signal thru buildings
Yes, that would be great!
I use a digital varistream which hasn't missed a beat in about 3 years BUT I would change controller for the remote function.
Personally, I think I would prefer a pocket or maybe wristband remote unit, rather than pole mounted. ;)
Thats an easy one the radio control version V9 available through the usual distributors has a 2 butoon key fob that controls the flow rate 0 - 99
are you saying remote controll varistreams already exist?
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A suggestion re Radio control version of the V9. At the moment it is supplied with the radio aerial kit Ect and we recommend it goes on the roof so a hole needs drilling. how about a Magnetic mount fitting? No holes + no issue with range of getting a signal thru buildings
Yes, that would be great!
I use a digital varistream which hasn't missed a beat in about 3 years BUT I would change controller for the remote function.
Personally, I think I would prefer a pocket or maybe wristband remote unit, rather than pole mounted. ;)
Thats an easy one the radio control version V9 available through the usual distributors has a 2 butoon key fob that controls the flow rate 0 - 99
Q. are you saying remote controll varistreams already exist?
A. I can Not comment on the Varistream we do not make that controller.
The Usual distributors can always get the radio control versions of the V9 Eco Flow Controller. The Distributors will often brand it slightly differently as mentioned in this stream. Our controller is the one with 3 digit display and 3 buttons.
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Hello Ian - I admire you for coming on the forum and asking questions to improve your product but just be careful, some suppliers might not like people knowing where the equipment comes from!
We've just removed our varistreams and run all pumps off the pressure switches (full speed), I might update them with larger switches later.
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It's common knowledge when the pumps come from!
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Hello Ian - I admire you for coming on the forum and asking questions to improve your product but just be careful, some suppliers might not like people knowing where the equipment comes from!
We've just removed our varistreams and run all pumps off the pressure switches (full speed), I might update them with larger switches later.
Good idea - Might be best to use heavy duty relays to take the strain off the microswitch.
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Hello Ian - I admire you for coming on the forum and asking questions to improve your product but just be careful, some suppliers might not like people knowing where the equipment comes from!
We've just removed our varistreams and run all pumps off the pressure switches (full speed), I might update them with larger switches later.
Thanks Alan, I appreciate what you are saying there need to be a little wary. On the whole though if We can help people get the best out of their kit and improve it. In the end we all gain :)
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Hello Ian - I admire you for coming on the forum and asking questions to improve your product but just be careful, some suppliers might not like people knowing where the equipment comes from!
We've just removed our varistreams and run all pumps off the pressure switches (full speed), I might update them with larger switches later.
Good idea - Might be best to use heavy duty relays to take the strain off the microswitch.
You can run a pump on the pressure switch and operate without a controller. This may work for you but it does not work for everybody for a number of reasons:
1. In running the pump until it hits the pressure switch you are running the pump as hard as it can possibly work. This means that the pressure in the system will be at its absolute maximum. This puts strain on the hoses, on the fittings and on the pump. It therefore increases the chances of split hoses, leaking joints and increases wear on your pump, shortening its life.
2. As the pressure switch cuts out the pump is at maximum, working as hard as it possible can and therefore drawing maximum current from the battery. Hence as the switch opens it too is under great strain. The high current and the fact that the pump is an inductive load (with stored energy) means that the pressure switch contacts are likely to arc and eventually they will fail.
3. Without a controller the pump will not stop until it hits the pressure switch. With a controller with dead end detection properly calibrated the pump will be stopped a long time before this high pressure and high pump load. This means that because the pump is turned off earlier you are saving battery energy and hence increasing both the battery life but also the amount of time you can work on a battery charge.
4. Without any type of flow constrictor then the water will be at full flow. Good for putting out fires, but not so good for cleaning windows. The aim should be to work with only sufficient water to get a good clean. This is a benefit because the aim is to conserve the water and hence increase the amount of work possible from a tank. You also save time because you don't have to make as much pure water and you save resin as well. Working with large amounts of water can also cause a hazard for those around you, especially in cold conditions.
So by all means use the pressure switch, but these are the reasons that many people choose to use a controller.
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Hello Ian - I admire you for coming on the forum and asking questions to improve your product but just be careful, some suppliers might not like people knowing where the equipment comes from!
We've just removed our varistreams and run all pumps off the pressure switches (full speed), I might update them with larger switches later.
Good idea - Might be best to use heavy duty relays to take the strain off the microswitch.
You can run a pump on the pressure switch and operate without a controller. This may work for you but it does not work for everybody for a number of reasons:
1. In running the pump until it hits the pressure switch you are running the pump as hard as it can possibly work. This means that the pressure in the system will be at its absolute maximum. This puts strain on the hoses, on the fittings and on the pump. It therefore increases the chances of split hoses, leaking joints and increases wear on your pump, shortening its life.
2. As the pressure switch cuts out the pump is at maximum, working as hard as it possible can and therefore drawing maximum current from the battery. Hence as the switch opens it too is under great strain. The high current and the fact that the pump is an inductive load (with stored energy) means that the pressure switch contacts are likely to arc and eventually they will fail.
3. Without a controller the pump will not stop until it hits the pressure switch. With a controller with dead end detection properly calibrated the pump will be stopped a long time before this high pressure and high pump load. This means that because the pump is turned off earlier you are saving battery energy and hence increasing both the battery life but also the amount of time you can work on a battery charge.
4. Without any type of flow constrictor then the water will be at full flow. Good for putting out fires, but not so good for cleaning windows. The aim should be to work with only sufficient water to get a good clean. This is a benefit because the aim is to conserve the water and hence increase the amount of work possible from a tank. You also save time because you don't have to make as much pure water and you save resin as well. Working with large amounts of water can also cause a hazard for those around you, especially in cold conditions.
So by all means use the pressure switch, but these are the reasons that many people choose to use a controller.
Totally agree
But add to that- a constant, reliable flow rate regardless of height being worked at. ;)
To back the "pressure" issue up, all my barbed connections from tank to hose reel are held in place with a tie-wrap, not a jubilee clip in sight! ;D Even my pole hose (minibore to 1/2" barb) connector is held on with just two small tie-wraps & zero leaks, not even a drop! :D
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Hello Ian - I admire you for coming on the forum and asking questions to improve your product but just be careful, some suppliers might not like people knowing where the equipment comes from!
We've just removed our varistreams and run all pumps off the pressure switches (full speed), I might update them with larger switches later.
Good idea - Might be best to use heavy duty relays to take the strain off the microswitch.
You can run a pump on the pressure switch and operate without a controller. This may work for you but it does not work for everybody for a number of reasons:
1. In running the pump until it hits the pressure switch you are running the pump as hard as it can possibly work. This means that the pressure in the system will be at its absolute maximum. This puts strain on the hoses, on the fittings and on the pump. It therefore increases the chances of split hoses, leaking joints and increases wear on your pump, shortening its life.
2. As the pressure switch cuts out the pump is at maximum, working as hard as it possible can and therefore drawing maximum current from the battery. Hence as the switch opens it too is under great strain. The high current and the fact that the pump is an inductive load (with stored energy) means that the pressure switch contacts are likely to arc and eventually they will fail.
3. Without a controller the pump will not stop until it hits the pressure switch. With a controller with dead end detection properly calibrated the pump will be stopped a long time before this high pressure and high pump load. This means that because the pump is turned off earlier you are saving battery energy and hence increasing both the battery life but also the amount of time you can work on a battery charge.
4. Without any type of flow constrictor then the water will be at full flow. Good for putting out fires, but not so good for cleaning windows. The aim should be to work with only sufficient water to get a good clean. This is a benefit because the aim is to conserve the water and hence increase the amount of work possible from a tank. You also save time because you don't have to make as much pure water and you save resin as well. Working with large amounts of water can also cause a hazard for those around you, especially in cold conditions.
So by all means use the pressure switch, but these are the reasons that many people choose to use a controller.
ian i have been running a shurflo pump 100 psi 6.4 lt without a flow controller for 3/1/2 years with no problems what so ever. it was only in the last 12 months i went over to a flow con and have had nothing else but trouble. the shurflo pump in question i have still got and still working.
PS i wanted to ask you could you please take a look at the pure freedom one i have because it was sent back to them they checked it over and told me nothing was wrong but guess what its still the same so i am at a loose end at the mo. the flow con is 10 months old its as much use to me as a chocolate spoon.
cheers Dave
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Hello Ian - I admire you for coming on the forum and asking questions to improve your product but just be careful, some suppliers might not like people knowing where the equipment comes from!
We've just removed our varistreams and run all pumps off the pressure switches (full speed), I might update them with larger switches later.
Good idea - Might be best to use heavy duty relays to take the strain off the microswitch.
You can run a pump on the pressure switch and operate without a controller. This may work for you but it does not work for everybody for a number of reasons:
1. In running the pump until it hits the pressure switch you are running the pump as hard as it can possibly work. This means that the pressure in the system will be at its absolute maximum. This puts strain on the hoses, on the fittings and on the pump. It therefore increases the chances of split hoses, leaking joints and increases wear on your pump, shortening its life.
2. As the pressure switch cuts out the pump is at maximum, working as hard as it possible can and therefore drawing maximum current from the battery. Hence as the switch opens it too is under great strain. The high current and the fact that the pump is an inductive load (with stored energy) means that the pressure switch contacts are likely to arc and eventually they will fail.
3. Without a controller the pump will not stop until it hits the pressure switch. With a controller with dead end detection properly calibrated the pump will be stopped a long time before this high pressure and high pump load. This means that because the pump is turned off earlier you are saving battery energy and hence increasing both the battery life but also the amount of time you can work on a battery charge.
4. Without any type of flow constrictor then the water will be at full flow. Good for putting out fires, but not so good for cleaning windows. The aim should be to work with only sufficient water to get a good clean. This is a benefit because the aim is to conserve the water and hence increase the amount of work possible from a tank. You also save time because you don't have to make as much pure water and you save resin as well. Working with large amounts of water can also cause a hazard for those around you, especially in cold conditions.
So by all means use the pressure switch, but these are the reasons that many people choose to use a controller.
ian i have been running a shurflo pump 100 psi 6.4 lt without a flow controller for 3/1/2 years with no problems what so ever. it was only in the last 12 months i went over to a flow con and have had nothing else but trouble. the shurflo pump in question i have still got and still working.
PS i wanted to ask you could you please take a look at the pure freedom one i have because it was sent back to them they checked it over and told me nothing was wrong but guess what its still the same so i am at a loose end at the mo. the flow con is 10 months old its as much use to me as a chocolate spoon.
cheers Dave
Dave Yes we are happy to try and help, What issues are you having with the controller in particular? Also can I ask is it the Digital V9 Version? is your pressure Switch in or out of the circuit?
We sometimes find that the issue is with the auto calibration set up in regard to the dead end detection if this is set to low it can cause the pump to start cycling as the controller retests for DE every 3 seconds.
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Hi ian i will sent you an email later with the problem i am having with the flow con
many thanks dave
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No problem Dave glad to help where we can
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No problem Dave glad to help where we can
Ian can you please email me your email so i can tell you what's wrong with this flow controller thanks Dave
pure.window@googlemail.com
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No Problem I will do that now :)
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Hope the below is of help
1. Dave had a controller (3 digit, three button controller) with a Shurflo 6.4l/min pump. Pump was 3.5 yrs old.
2. Current draw was 8A. Battery flat by lunch time. Pump replaced.
3. New pump uses 3A. Flow turned up to 80, cal set to 80. Bypass controller ok. New battery but no change.
4. Bought new pump (shurflo 5.2lt) and new controller. Works ok. (But old controller does not).
At first it sounded like there may be a restriction in Dave's system, not a full blockage but maybe a restriction like dirt lodged in a joint or a mismatched fitting. Air in system can also restrict flow and increase high current draw (but air can be forced out over time and given how long Dave's problem continued this seems unlikely).
Another common misconception is that people need a very powerful pump with a high flowrate. But a 5l/min is usually more that adequate, because the flow is restricted by the DI vessels, the bore and length of the hose and the jets on the brush. It is more important to have sufficient pressure to overcome these restrictions, 60PSI is usually adequate but most people use a 100PSI 5l/min pump which is perfect.
If Dave re-fits his old controller and the problem comes back then the conclusion in that the controller does have a problem. Please send it back to us and we will try to diagnose the problem