Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Neil Williams on June 05, 2011, 10:12:18 pm
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Send me an e-mail neilj96@ntlworld.com as I can't find your contact details.
need to know if someone working the Caerwent area is ligit (for family reasons)
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we do a few in caerwent so if it us were sort of ligit ;D
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And your business name?
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rise and shine.
is it me?
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No.
Thanks
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We also do a few in caerwent .
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You have mail, though I only have two in Caewent, and don't know any other window cleaners there.
There's another Squeaky Clean (not Roger) leafleting the world with silly rock bottom prices on the back of his flyer (and he's a member here judging by the wording on them), but he seems legitimate enough.
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I don't know if Tosh is legitimate ... ;D
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I don't know if Tosh is legitimate ... ;D
Just, mate, just. I think they married in July and I was born in November (26th November, Thanksgiving day in the US - I share a birthday with Bill W, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous - which I think is great).
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Neil wanted to know if a window cleaner was legit because his prices were so low and he is cleaning an elderly relatives of his windows. I don't know the window cleaner, but I've seen his leaflet; he's done a big marketting campaign; leaflets everywhere with his pricing structure on the reverse.
The window cleaner must use this forum, or 'a window cleaner forum' because I recognise the wording on the leaflet explaining the WFP system; he's copied if from a letter David of St Ives drafted some years ago.
I reckon the guy is legitimate, just new, inexperienced, and has really went in cheap, giving ridiculously high discounts for the first two cleans, followed by low prices fixed for two years.
The guy is making a rod for his own back because he won't make a decent living with those prices he's charging.
Other than his prices, going from the standard of his leaflet, (which can only tell me so much), the guy has got a brain somewhere, but needs to re-adjust his prices.
Take note, if you read this post! ;D
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Neil wanted to know if a window cleaner was legit because his prices were so low and he is cleaning an elderly relatives of his windows.
As much as I'm not happy about her changing what I believe was a reliable window cleaner just because of the price, (I'd have thought she'd have known my thoughts on that over the years), equally I don't want her conned by some scheme that appears too good to be true.
Tell you what...he's in for a shock when he get's to my mother's partners place in the same street, as for £7.50 he's got to do a detached property with garage doors coverted into large panes of glass plus conservatory on the back. He'll be lucky to get that one done in at least 40 minutes.
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Tell you what...he's in for a shock when he get's to my mother's partners place in the same street, as for £7.50 he's got to do a detached property with garage doors coverted into large panes of glass plus conservatory on the back. He'll be lucky to get that one done in at least 40 minutes.
I wish I could be there to watch him turn up and see the place. ;D
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Undercutters should be put against a wall and shot.
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Undercutters should be put against a wall and shot.
Along with everyone else you don't like! ;D
Just joking, ladders. You just know this guy is going to graft his danglies off for a pittance, jack it all in, and then the next window cleaner who comes to quote could be viewed as a rip-off merchant since her last window cleaner was only £7.50.
If I can be bothered, I may post up his pricing structure, for your perusal. It's just plain daft.
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go on tosh
but before every one has a good a the lad, the are a few on here who would undercut any one and every one just to get a job and just call it business
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Undercutters should be put against a wall and shot.
Along with everyone else you don't like! ;D
Just joking, ladders. You just know this guy is going to graft his danglies off for a pittance, jack it all in, and then the next window cleaner who comes to quote could be viewed as a rip-off merchant since her last window cleaner was only £7.50.
If I can be bothered, I may post up his pricing structure, for your perusal. It's just plain daft.
go on tosh give us all a laugh
might be someone i know ;)
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Undercutters generally dont last.
We are due to have a hot summer, and everyone thinks there are a window cleaner now. Flash in the pan stuff I wouldnt worry.
Why undercut if you dont need to? Probably because you need too, as your work is poo.
There is a actually a very clever economic factor here which someone far "cleverer" than me should explain, but the simple basis of it is it drives down prices. So as we all know, charge more and work less ;D
Bloody undercutters.
Damn my soap box is dirty, id better get off and clean it
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undercutting on price will also lead you into doing business with people who are willing to take the cheapest service on offer.
That customer will not be reliable, nor will they grow into a well settled bomb proof earner over the years to come. They will simply tell you to naff off when the next bloke turns up with a cheaper price.
The clearest examples of price undercutting and its damage to the industry are the national brands.
In every town up and down the country there are snotters, puke, bird turds and grime covering almost all of the big name retail outlets. That isn't because the they are not paying for window cleaning, it is because they are not being washed by the people who are supposed to be doing it.
Why are they not being washed??????
Because the companies that should be washing them have put in such a stupidly low price for them that they can't really afford to send a van out 75 miles there and back to wash one bank, so they simply dont bother to go there at all. But of course they still find the time to post a bill.
So people like me, who like to see whole sections of high street looking spic and span get really naffed off looking at snot ridden retail chains, knowing that somebody somewhere is cashing in on money for nothing, as well as making the industry look bad.
so basically undercutting is not good for anything really, though for people on the back foot it is a quick revenue generator.
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LLaaww is spot on.
This guy may get a lot of customers quickly and even have a plan to then employ and send guys out at £7 an hour to do the work. But if your marketing is based on pile em high and sell em cheap, it only works until some new guy comes along doing it cheaper. The customers have already shown their lack of loyalty and will do it again.
There are two guys near me knocking offering £4 a house. One can't speak english for a start and they are aggresive when told no thanks. Tossers.
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This is on the reverse of his flyer; make of it what you will:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/tosh0987/scan0001.jpg)
I won't print the other side; I prefer to keep the guys details anonymous. Maybe he can learn from some of this post? But it's unfair to slate a window cleaner who is probably just new to the game, rather than being purely malicious; because he's probably going to do more harm to his new business than he is to anyone else's; IMO.
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Yeah fair enough, its tough to start, and if he is reading this then trust me dont cement yourself to these low prices for 2 years!
Of if this is your lead in prices, marketing plan, get a call and go and quote and then say well you have a few more than expected of this and that and can make it up to what the house would normally be then fair play ;D
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amazing :o
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amazing :o
Me? Well, thank you! Wor Lass certainly thinks I am on a Friday night when she's feeling all frisky!
But what do you think about the pricing structure?
I think the guy is making a rod for his own back.
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Thing is he does have a small print, i.e. 12 windows including doors £6 so 50p a window will still make him £15/£20 an hour sometimes more, and at those prices he may well pick up good compact work as long as he is good and fast like us jock window cleaners ;D and folk will not quibble about having them done monthly.
I think tosh has it easy with high prices strolling around taking his time :D and now he feels threatened.
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that is the second most ridiculous pricing structure i have seen since i started
the only qualifying statement is that a "house" is up to 12 windows!!!!!
and the gutter and fascia work is priced per side
unbelievable how common sense seems to go out the window when people are trying to build a round
and if anyones interested the MOST ridiculous one i saw was a business card which simply said
HOUSES £4
BUNGALOWS £3
yes really!!!
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On gumtree glasgow there was one saying any house £1 :o ;D
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I think tosh has it easy with high prices strolling around taking his time :D and now he feels threatened.
Hmmmm. Nope. Leaflets don't work. I was given this leaflet in a place where I do all the bungalows in the cul-de-sac apart from three (I do nine of the remaining ones) and no-one has dumped me. That's how effective a shiny leaflet is offering cheap prices, explaining exactly the same cleaning method as myself.
For all my run-of-the-mill type semis I charge at least a tenner, and no-one (or hardly anyone) says 'Oh, that's too expensive!'. They say stuff like, "Fine. Can you do them now?", and this guy is offering to do the same work at nearly half the price.
That's daft.
Tomorrow I'm off to price a business unit (offices) and the owners house. He got my number by recommendation from an existing customer of mine, and he wanted to know if I've got insurance. I have and mentioned that I will also provide him with a risk assessment and method statement (it takes about fifteen minutes to do and print off).
I'll charge well, based on the knowledge that he's looking for a professional window cleaner, whose safe and whose been recommended. There's many many other window cleaners around here who could provide EXACTLY the same as myself, but I'm banking that his perception is that most window cleaners are a dodgy lot, uninsured, do a shoddy job (he asked me if we did 'frames' ;D), and I reckon I've got a good chance of getting a well priced job(s) out of it.
Now, in my opinion (and my experience because I've done it), to offer your services at a rate below the market average is just making a rod for your own back.
I'm helping the guy out, if he read this post! ;D
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spot on with that,good advice,we have all been there when starting up but you do yourself no favours in long run
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what if??????????????????
he is paying minimum wage and has loads of window cleaners working for him?????
his ££££ per hour would mean he is on to a good thing!!!!
I have that in my town!
IF he is cleaning your mothers windows to a good standard whats the problem??????????
I just clean all the customers who dont like ex con looking window cleaners on here property! ;D
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I was only joking Tosh I am well aware of the price difference on properties down south and up here, guy does my street would do my house for £3.50 and I have 9 windows and two doors( not that he would do the doors) or the sills or frames.
but then again I would only take 5 to 6 quid for it unless it was further afield, but I can clean it in under ten minutes
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but I can clean it in under ten minutes
But that gives the impression that we can do six-houses-per-hour. Possible? Yes of course if they were all close together, but in the real world, Mrs Jones wants to tell you about her hip operation, then Mr Brown - whom you've cleaned his windows for the past five years - waits for you to knock on the door, and when he answers and you bid him good day and request payment, he looks at you for a moment and then thinks, 'Oh, where's my wallet?' and then you stand their stroking his Labrador dog while he takes what seems like four hours to find his money. Then Mrs Bell wants you to clean the inside of her kitchen window - she's like a zillion years old - so you do it for free, and...
It works out at four-houses-per hour, tops, on compact work. And WFP - SLX or not - it's still physically demanding work; or at least it is for me.
And then you pack up, drive to the next job, maybe spend some time stuck in traffic, arrive have a coffee, then rinse and repeat.
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lol. I thought it was just me tosh :) why do all my custies want to chat ? ;D
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lol. I thought it was just me tosh :) why do all my custies want to chat ? ;D
Winter is good; they're less willing to stand there with their doors open when it's ruddy freezing.
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but I can clean it in under ten minutes
But that gives the impression that we can do six-houses-per-hour. Possible? Yes of course if they were all close together, but in the real world, Mrs Jones wants to tell you about her hip operation, then Mr Brown - whom you've cleaned his windows for the past five years - waits for you to knock on the door, and when he answers and you bid him good day and request payment, he looks at you for a moment and then thinks, 'Oh, where's my wallet?' and then you stand their stroking his Labrador dog while he takes what seems like four hours to find his money. Then Mrs Bell wants you to clean the inside of her kitchen window - she's like a zillion years old - so you do it for free, and...
It works out at four-houses-per hour, tops, on compact work. And WFP - SLX or not - it's still physically demanding work; or at least it is for me.
And then you pack up, drive to the next job, maybe spend some time stuck in traffic, arrive have a coffee, then rinse and repeat.
yes I agree but to someone staring up 4 per hour sounds good at £6 PER house that is £24 per hour, ok it isn't always realistic, but possible. I have moaned about leaflets going out with low prices, but at least one is now running a good business now, the others disappear, it hasn't effected me in the slightest. and even if he is only doing three that is £18, to someone that has been employed that sounds good, he will learn over time to up it slightly, we all start somewhere ;)
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I agree, Stu. However, it's important to highlight for the benefit of any potential window cleaners out there thinking that even £18 an hour is good money, just wait till we have three weeks of NO WORK due to some extreme weather event, which seems to happen at least once-per-year. Or a spell of illness; no-one knows if they're going to get sick or have an injury (just look at Daz and his twisted ankle, not long after that Winter we had).
And then there's vehicle breakdowns, flat tyres, and broken shoe strings, and there's times when we can get demotivated and just can't be bothered. Some are maybe more disciplined than me, but I know I'll turnover less when I'm feeling this way.
And that £18 an hour - based on what we've said - is earned while working, not travelling from job-to-job.
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tosh iam glad you found trippys new flyers.
;D
we did warn him.but you know trippy. :o