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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: woody1 on May 30, 2011, 03:52:17 pm

Title: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on May 30, 2011, 03:52:17 pm
looking to expand my buissness i have about £1300 every 4 weeks do i do it when i am rammed or employ now and just canvass like crazy any idea
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Pope vader on May 30, 2011, 03:53:41 pm
when u are 90% full,  employ some one and then knock like hell
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on May 30, 2011, 03:54:35 pm
thanks
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: bobby p on May 30, 2011, 04:04:52 pm
i took on 2 parttimers and am VERY glad i did. soon as 1 starts becoming a messer ,the other can step up a gear to carry me over till ive got a new one.  im on my 5 th  lad in 18 weeks
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Ian101 on May 30, 2011, 04:41:48 pm
i rekon the time to employ is when ur constantly 2 weeks behind
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: LWC on May 30, 2011, 04:46:10 pm
I know people are against it here of talking figures. But figures would be nice to be discussed as to when you think you should have one person 2 people .... is £2k a month right to be taking people out etc. What do you think?

Ive got what i consider a big round and i manage most of it with 2 of us, but am usually behind, not sure about another person tho.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: AuRavelling79 on May 30, 2011, 04:51:44 pm
I'm at 3k turnover and just on the point of taking on someone.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: mark311069 on May 30, 2011, 07:09:00 pm
i have £2200 domestic done every 5 weeks and £1000 comercial every month and am getting to far behind(domestic now at 7weeks) so i think its time i got some help. what do you guys pay per hour, iam in the midlands
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: g.brookes on May 30, 2011, 07:27:22 pm
i used to work in nottingham round southwell area and i got paid £50 a day.  that went up to 55 when i was up to speed, and i'd get 60 if we'd had a good day.  This was nearly 2 years ago.  i was a student at the time and i thought the pay was great.  it was really important that i knew i'd get paid more if i worked really hard though, otherwise theres no incentive.  i only ever did downstairs though, he said if i did the ladders he'd pay me 70-80 a day but i didnt want to
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: LWC on May 30, 2011, 07:32:09 pm
£60 a day is £7.50 a hour, have a look around at other jobs and see if they pay that much, i stil think £60 a day is good money.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: bobby p on May 30, 2011, 07:37:32 pm
i pay £7 per hour. as it happens both my workers love ladders and before i found them were spending their days climbing trees

 i prefer them cleaning downstairs though as its far harder work there. they work alternate days and i let them do a bit on the ladders on the afters. before i took them on i was fearing that getting insurance for laddermen  would be tricky/very pricey  but it wasnt so bad
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: wpclean on May 30, 2011, 07:51:07 pm
I think before considering  employing people you have to be good at organising and motivating people, and obviously you have to be able to make a fair profit for the effort.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Ian Rochester on May 30, 2011, 07:57:41 pm
We have 6 window cleaners now, it's a big decision as to when to bite the bullet and employ, personnally I think the key is when you start falling behind with work. 

If you fall behind then you have lost that money, you can't go and clean a house twice to catch up.  Take someone on on a trial basis, either pay them wholly on what they do or pay them a basic plus a percentage of work done.

My guys are on a basic plus a 3 monthly bonus.  Two guys working together will generally be able to do more than two guys working on their own, teams of three don't work.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Crystal-clear on May 30, 2011, 08:50:51 pm
I think before considering  employing people you have to be good at organising and motivating people, and obviously you have to be able to make a fair profit for the effort.

thumbs up
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Helen on May 30, 2011, 10:13:24 pm
looking to expand my buissness i have about £1300 every 4 weeks do i do it when i am rammed or employ now and just canvass like crazy any idea

In all honesty the figure you have given doesn't warrant taking somone on. When you do £1300 every week, which is achievable, then think about a part timer at first. :)
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Sean Dyer on May 30, 2011, 10:17:22 pm
looking to expand my buissness i have about £1300 every 4 weeks do i do it when i am rammed or employ now and just canvass like crazy any idea

In all honesty the figure you have given doesn't warrant taking somone on. When you do £1300 every week, which is achievable, then think about a part timer at first. :)

Thats what i thought but didnt really want to rock the boat

I reckon from about 1k a week you need help to expand as fitting in canvassing and new cleans gets hard without running behind

However you have to know that you want staff, and why you want them

If you are just struggling to manage a round you probably need to look at your work, and when you work rather than just give a wage to someone to not run behind, as even if you catch up the extra money is gone... plus you have more responsibility to an employee, try refine your round and maximise its potential yourself first , then think about what you hope to accomplish by taking on staff
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: mikecam on May 31, 2011, 12:33:09 am
looking to expand my buissness i have about £1300 every 4 weeks do i do it when i am rammed or employ now and just canvass like crazy any idea
To be blunt you need to get a grip and stop dreaming. £1300 a month is not a business, its bareley a wage.
Going by this post......http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=87400.msg781115#msg781115
You've been going about five years and are a quick worker.Whats gone wrong?
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: mikecam on May 31, 2011, 12:36:48 am
i pay £7 per hour. as it happens both my workers love ladders and before i found them were spending their days climbing trees

I've done this too. I used to whistle and spread out nuts on the floor to attract them. Some of the best workers are bareley literate,numerate or comunicative. As long as you can convey what you want them to do they can get on and do a good job without any fuss. Do they have big red/purple arses and sharp teeth?
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on May 31, 2011, 07:57:35 am
just to let you know my round was a lot bigger as worked with the old man we went our separte ways i took just enough custys keep me going and just a point i just want to m,anage and get out canvassing while some one works for me its not because i am full
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Helen on May 31, 2011, 12:32:53 pm
Ok, but you still only bring in £325 per week at the moment. Nobody is knocking you for wanting to expand, but £325 should be achievable for you only in 2 days easily, leaving the rest of the week for canvassing.
How are you going to fund a business, pay staff and yourself on £325 per week? :)
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on May 31, 2011, 02:41:09 pm
i was asking a question and if im honest i can live with out taking a wage for a few months while i keep the work coming in its called running a buissness i doubt the owner of say b and q worked on the shop floor when he opened its the same thing to grow buissness you need to take a back seat and get the work not clean it  well thats my idea any way also helen do you run a window cleaning buissness my guess is no so what makes you abble to answere other peoples comments
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: supernova77 on May 31, 2011, 02:48:48 pm
Quote
i was asking a question and if im honest i can live with out taking a wage for a few months while i keep the work coming in its called running a buissness i doubt the owner of say b and q worked on the shop floor when he opened its the same thing to grow buissness you need to take a back seat and get the work not clean it  well thats my idea any way also helen do you run a window cleaning buissness my guess is no so what makes you abble to answere other peoples comments

I know for a fact that Helen ran a very successful window cleaning business, and I think is now in the carpet cleaning industry.

If you think you can build a successful window cleaning business without actually cleaning any windows and building up a good personal relationship with each customer then your having a laugh and you may as well go and work in B&Q.

All the comments you've had so far were from people trying to help you.

Andy
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on May 31, 2011, 05:00:30 pm
so i have cleaned windows i want to expand quickly so if i get some one to do the cleaning and i do the canvassing full time i will build a bigger base of custy's than working on my own
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: supernova77 on May 31, 2011, 05:04:07 pm
Quote
so i have cleaned windows i want to expand quickly so if i get some one to do the cleaning and i do the canvassing full time i will build a bigger base of custy's than working on my own

Yeah but having a big customer base doesn't make you automatically successful... You would need to put some cleaning time in to.

I clean any new customers 2 or 3 times myself before letting anyone else near them!

Andy
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: colin purewater on May 31, 2011, 05:14:59 pm
i was asking a question and if im honest i can live with out taking a wage for a few months while i keep the work coming in its called running a buissness i doubt the owner of say b and q worked on the shop floor when he opened its the same thing to grow buissness you need to take a back seat and get the work not clean it  well thats my idea any way also helen do you run a window cleaning buissness my guess is no so what makes you abble to answere other peoples comments
how rude...
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: davids3511 on May 31, 2011, 06:02:04 pm
i was asking a question and if im honest i can live with out taking a wage for a few months while i keep the work coming in its called running a buissness i doubt the owner of say b and q worked on the shop floor when he opened its the same thing to grow buissness you need to take a back seat and get the work not clean it  well thats my idea any way also helen do you run a window cleaning buissness my guess is no so what makes you abble to answere other peoples comments

You would do well to listen to Helen. She knows what she is taking about.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Helen on May 31, 2011, 06:42:24 pm
Thanks guys and yes Andy we are now heavily involved carpet cleaning (where we first started) and leather restoration and flood and water damage restoration.

Woody, I was in no way knocking you or your enthusiam for expanding your business (didn't I say that before ???)
Yes I have been involved in starting up and running a successful WC business (which we sold a while ago...) and within that business employed, so I don't say I know it all, but I know a little. Before you jump to conclusions (again) yes I can trad and yes I am a wfp user as well and have been out there myself when needed.

I believe that your first post did not mention that you can live for a few months without having to take a wage, in this case you are a very lucky person.

Personally if I was in that situation, I would canvass to fill 5 days a week, and work that for the next couple of months myself. I would then consider taking someone on part time to work with me 3 days a week, with the possibility of it becoming fulltime. (2 people should be able to cover the 5 days work) That would leave you free to canvas and build up to a full time position for your chap, whilst still bringing in some money for yourself. Why waste the money you have saved up, by living off it when you don't need to?
Then start again with another guy and so on.

Just a tip when you quote for people, make sure you charge enough to cover all your extra overheads that you will have when employing, but then I expect you already know all about that.

Good luck, I have a feeling you are going to need it!
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: mark311069 on May 31, 2011, 06:52:18 pm
well after reading this thread over the last couple of days it has dawned on me i need help so...................iam starting a lad tomorrow ;D  paying him £7 per hour so we will see how it goes ???
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: richardlingard on May 31, 2011, 06:55:31 pm
dont employ unless you really have no other choice, the job will become plauged with worry, corruption, arguments, stress and thieves , carve what you can with your own two hands mate, then go wfp
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: SunShineCleaning on May 31, 2011, 06:59:41 pm
Listen to Helen mate rather than having a go.

£1300 is not enough buy a long way.

My advice would be to get the prices up so that you can make £175-200 per day then look at taking on someone.

I now worked on the principle that if I cant get round I put the prices up to sift out the under paid jobs (relative of course)

You need to at least triple your turnover before you get someone else in.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: geefree on September 06, 2011, 09:14:46 am
Some good advice  here from lots of members,

did you employ woody?,

which route did you go down?
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: DG Cleaning on September 06, 2011, 03:06:56 pm
I imagine whoever started B&Q did work on the shop floor to start with. I doubt they ever stepped back till things got really big. Sounds like you're using the " I need time to to grow my business " excuse as a reason to not do any work. Hope i'm wrong but if not I can this ending in tears. Helen gives excellent advice you ought to listen.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on September 06, 2011, 05:02:12 pm
no not yet but very close now as got 397 custys now and need a bit of help but going to try and hold off til the new year
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Mike_G on September 06, 2011, 06:39:36 pm
£1300 per month and 397 customers? thats £3.27 per customer on average. I think you should consider putting up your prices Woody. As for when to employ I agree with most of these others you need to be earning a considerably lot more than you do at the moment before you take anybody on, and if you are only just getting through your work and do need a bit of help you really do need to increase your prices..its sounds to me as if you are doing a whole lot of work for not much reward
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: dazmond on September 06, 2011, 06:41:40 pm
woody your average price must be very low if you have 397 customers bringing in £1300 a month.ive got 80 less customers and earn over twice what you bring in every month.i still have gaps for bad weather days and probably only work 15-16 days a month!i am wfp which makes a big difference.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Taylor & Taylor WC Services on September 06, 2011, 06:44:44 pm
397 customers bringing in £1300? You need to put up those prices!!

There is no way you can neglect the cleaning side for canvassing. I had £3000 a month when i took a guy on to do this and yes I got extra work but I got complaints, got behind on work and had to go back after a month of this and I'm still working with a full timer at £5500 a month (Approx 500 customers)

Even now I have a second van coming on Monday so I can build another round I am not overly confident that my two staff will keep things running problem free and on time etc!! Employment in my opinion has been nothing but a ball ache BUT you can't grow without employees it's probably a little too soon for you on those figures though. Work hard for another year and it might be achievable.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: dazmond on September 06, 2011, 06:55:13 pm
sounds like you have a very underpriced round done trad.you need to bite the bullet IMO and get a wfp system and convert all your round over,put up your prices then when gaps start appearing(because you ll be faster after a few months WFP)canvass like mad and get better priced work to up your monthly earnings.

i wouldnt even think about employing in your position.itll not be worth the hassle mate.


best wishes


dazmond
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: wellclean on September 06, 2011, 10:34:51 pm
get real, £1300 is a little under 1 weeks work, [with hot water ]
your a part timer
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: windowswashed on September 06, 2011, 10:59:34 pm
having an employee doesnt necessarily earn you more money.

sometimes its better to grow your customer base and weed out the bad stuff, keep repeating this and end up with a good round or go the other route of employing with its merits, downfalls and extra work.

employed before. would i do it again........only if i was thinking of retiring, then it would be canvass, canvass, canvass and employ part time staff on above average wages. dont want the hassle for the time being as other things more important in life than window cleaning
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on September 07, 2011, 08:00:39 am
no no you got it wrong my round was only 1300 quid a few months ago when i asked the question its now up to £3790 i love it how you all jump on some thing with out thinking guys so i think my pricing is ok and i am happy to wait to employ some one next year towork with me in the van.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: dazmond on September 07, 2011, 08:37:25 am
so how have you tripled your monthly income in just a few months?sounds like theres a bit of porky pies being told!!

get honest woody!!do you have round software like george/roundtracker so you can "see" your round at the touch of a button?thats helped me a lot.

i have put  my prices up 2 years in a row and  i gave some an ultimatum an extra £5 or im going to have to stop cleaning for them.lost only a couple of jobs.

i suffered for years with not putting my prices up.i was trad at the time and didnt really have much confidence in myself to do it.to some extent i still have some very compact cheaper work but with wfp and van mount i can still earn good money.

WFP has totally changed things plus sign written van,uniform etc.my attitude is better and new work is much better priced.its amazing how much work ive picked up just by being more professional.

my earnings have increased considerably over the last 2 years and all without the hassle of employing.i reckon my round is just going to get better and better again over the next few years.

best wishes


dazmond
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on September 07, 2011, 01:44:35 pm
well i will tell you i bought some work of a windy and have canvassed like a mad mad nearly every nigh and on weekends and i picked up a big block of flats to be honest so no no porkies and yes i use george,
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: anderclean on September 07, 2011, 01:59:43 pm
good for you woody
keep going...
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on September 07, 2011, 03:22:27 pm
its good to be busy i get my neighbour out to help on odd days as i am still getting new custy's every other day ring up so i price high now £ 16 for a 3 bed semi £20 with cony i have not had many say no so cant be bad  ;D
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: mgba_78 on September 09, 2011, 01:49:50 pm
Personal experience here...

You need to employ when you are way behind with QUALITY work.
We have even tried overpricing jobs to not get them and guess what we still get um!!  17 new customer so far in September!

No point employing if you have stacked up a load of £100 days as most of that money goes on paying employee, insurance, NI etc etc

As stated by someone above, you need to get a decent round first just for you/1 person. So put any prices up that need going up, get rid of very bad payers (cash flow is key when employing)
Nothing like getting to Friday and only having £300  in you cash box?!

Then dont wait for the phone to ring either buy additional work or door knock, advertise and let people know you can take customers on, 90% of people we speak to say "ive been looking for a window cleaner for ages!

We have employed at various stages over the years (even tried another partner in the company, whole different subject!) never permanent employees and will be looking to this again next year as we now are at the limits of what we can achieve in a month! We know this as 6 day working weeks have happened to just try and keep up, or if rain affects play we are prepared to work Saturdays!





Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on September 09, 2011, 02:25:40 pm
well just to tell you i have no bad custy's as dumped as i went along and as for dazmond saying i am lying what a joke you been doing this for 18 years mate and still have crap prices by the sounds of your post. so maybe sort your round out before giving people stick.
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: geefree on September 09, 2011, 08:39:11 pm
I think dazmond had a point, but it came across as a little harsh,

But to pick up on his point,  you have trebled your income in a few weeks,  which is a very very lot of hard canvassing, whilst its not totally impossible, its a little hard to achieve.

did you possibly buy the work?
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: STEVE-UK on September 09, 2011, 08:46:02 pm
We have 6 window cleaners now, it's a big decision as to when to bite the bullet and employ, personnally I think the key is when you start falling behind with work. 

If you fall behind then you have lost that money, you can't go and clean a house twice to catch up.  Take someone on on a trial basis, either pay them wholly on what they do or pay them a basic plus a percentage of work done.

My guys are on a basic plus a 3 monthly bonus.  Two guys working together will generally be able to do more than two guys working on their own, teams of three don't work.

are you still franchising as well ian?
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: dazmond on September 10, 2011, 06:30:55 am
woody you sound like a dreamer mate.WAKE UP!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: daniel worgan on September 10, 2011, 06:47:17 am
We have 6 window cleaners now, it's a big decision as to when to bite the bullet and employ, personnally I think the key is when you start falling behind with work. 

If you fall behind then you have lost that money, you can't go and clean a house twice to catch up.  Take someone on on a trial basis, either pay them wholly on what they do or pay them a basic plus a percentage of work done.

My guys are on a basic plus a 3 monthly bonus.  Two guys working together will generally be able to do more than two guys working on their own, teams of three don't work.

are you still franchising as well ian?

You have got the wrong Ian mate...Ian Lancaster is probably who you were thinking about....
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: AuRavelling79 on September 10, 2011, 07:27:35 am
Gazza - woody said:



well i will tell you i bought some work of a windy and have canvassed like a mad  mad nearly every nigh and on weekends and i picked up a big block of flats to be honest so no no porkies and yes i use george,

Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: woody1 on September 10, 2011, 08:42:15 am
thats right gold thanks mate i bought some picked up a good value block of flats and been canvassing my nuts of and dazmond yes i do dream about having a big business mate. i think you like knocking people as it makes your little existance feel much better. sorry must go got 4 new quote to do, have fun painting mate  ;D
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: Pope vader on September 10, 2011, 08:56:29 am
if you put the hours in knocking its isnt that hard or take that long to build a good business,
Title: Re: when to employ
Post by: bobby p on September 10, 2011, 08:59:13 am
ive had 2 cannabis users on board in as many months , i now wont employ anybody who smokes - thats another tip i can give   and i now see can buy dope testing kits online for under a tenner (worth bearing in mind)