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UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mark shannon on May 27, 2011, 07:47:45 pm

Title: Surround Encap
Post by: mark shannon on May 27, 2011, 07:47:45 pm
This stuff is fantastic for LM best product I have ever used, jaw dropping results. Mixed up stronger makes an extremely effective spotter shifts tea and draught marks.

Got me wondering if encaping could be the future of CC.

Aint cheap but worth every penny.

http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/0006l
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: davep on May 27, 2011, 09:39:54 pm
Mark stop or you will set simon g off ;D
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on May 27, 2011, 09:54:06 pm
Dave,

Too late, I'm on it ;D

Mark,
You said' jaw dropping' results, how did you use it? Also, tell us about getting tea, coffee and draft marks out.

Simon
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Steve Gunn on May 27, 2011, 09:57:08 pm
I found the Surround Ultra to be the best of the lot mainly for the fragrance

 http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/0006k
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: mark shannon on May 27, 2011, 10:20:31 pm
Simon as a conventional HWE spotter it is extremely effective but not of course foolproof. Spray dwell rinse.

Cleaning  carpet tiles, very low profile carpet, vav, prespray, brush in,  jaw dropping results, even better when dry.

Never tried it on normal carpet but will test it on a rental  brushed in with envirodry next week.

mark




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Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on May 27, 2011, 11:09:54 pm
I like it albeit a little expensive, I cleaned an old cotton print the other day must have been 25 years old the one with the peacocks on anyway after cleaning and drying it needed a little bit extra so I applied it and toweled must admit it did look good wish I'd have had this stuff in the late 80's.

Shaun
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: creighton foyle on May 27, 2011, 11:37:10 pm
a guy who came all the way from the north east to buy my aridex fetched me a sample and i have to say i was very impressed. he is a bone dry franchise and seemed to know his stuff. i like it
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: wynne jones on May 28, 2011, 09:18:58 am
Love the marketing blurb suggesting other similar products may produce airborne hazards.  ::)

I think I'll stick to the cheap stuff that does the same job but without the hype.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on May 28, 2011, 09:42:44 am
How does it compare with Procaps as that was supposed to be one of the best?

Simon
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: davep on May 28, 2011, 09:56:56 am
It's hardly expensive, I used it few days back on £280 job, cost maybe £5 in product.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: John Kelly on May 28, 2011, 10:57:49 am
Love the marketing blurb suggesting other similar products may produce airborne hazards.  ::)

I think I'll stick to the cheap stuff that does the same job but without the hype.

You are so quick to come on here and criticise products from various manufacturers. At least be a man and have some balls and do it under your real name.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: andrew christopher on May 28, 2011, 12:13:33 pm
The no rinse spotter is really good.

Will try some surround for padding, have always found rotobrite II good. Anynone compared the two?

Mark can you use it on upholstery  ;D
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: davep on May 28, 2011, 12:23:58 pm
I tried but the buffer kept falling off  :P
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: wynne jones on May 28, 2011, 01:53:18 pm
Love the marketing blurb suggesting other similar products may produce airborne hazards.  ::)

I think I'll stick to the cheap stuff that does the same job but without the hype.

You are so quick to come on here and criticise products from various manufacturers. At least be a man and have some balls and do it under your real name.

I will do what I want thank you very much. And I think you will find that on many occasions on here I have recommended Craftex products. I also point out when other suppliers take the mick with pricing items where Restoremate is generally reasonable.



Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: gwrightson on May 28, 2011, 02:46:50 pm

Surround is the best encap product i have used, by far expensive !! not at all considering the dilution ratess, and , I cleaned a chinese restraunt cple weeks ago, minging started with h/w/e  owner wanted me to use the encap which i had used the previous week at their other restraunt lin Leeds, results excellent £20 tip and a bottle of glenmorangie. thank you very much mrs wong  ;D

Geoff
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: wynne jones on May 28, 2011, 03:07:29 pm
Pretty much any chemical used is a relatively small expense in comparison to the potential job profit.

Ease of use and results is more important to me. This product seems to be intimating though that there may be issues with other products where the encapsulate becomes airborne. I've never heard of a problem and sounds like it's a creative idea to knock the competition.

Maybe John will send me a sample to try.  ;D 
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: C A Payne on May 28, 2011, 03:44:54 pm
just a bit of a daft question; can you use this product in conjuction with the bonnet cleaning method anyone? if so, how does it measure up to catalyst & the likes, please? charlie.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: wynne jones on May 28, 2011, 03:57:28 pm
The idea with encap is you work it into the carpet and the foam encapsulates the dirt which is hoovered up when dry. You can use your rotary with a shampoo brush or something like a red or white pad. Youtube it or do a search on encap man.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Steve Gunn on May 28, 2011, 04:25:19 pm
just a bit of a daft question; can you use this product in conjuction with the bonnet cleaning method anyone? if so, how does it measure up to catalyst & the likes, please? charlie.

Yes you can use it as a bonnet cleaning product as well daily vacuuming by cleaners if used in commercial property will get residue up.Personally I think its on par with roto brite but rotobrite offers stainshield.Depends what you want
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: C A Payne on May 28, 2011, 04:34:54 pm
yep! just looked at the link for restormate...... doooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... thanx topman!
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Dean Davis on May 30, 2011, 05:39:26 pm
Go to www.carpetmax.co.uk and click video on encap and the video shows exactly how to
clean a carpet using Surround Ultra and the bonnet system..
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Mike Halliday on May 30, 2011, 05:59:06 pm
watched the video and it is the most ridiculous carpet cleaning video I've ever seen, the comparison was stupid..... of course the double headed machine would be faster not because it has 2 heads but the guy using it was almost running,  if the carpet had been dirty it would have been completely useless moving that fast

at least the rotary guy was working at a speed that would have a cleaning effect. its no good going fast if the you aren't actually cleaning the carpet
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: John Kelly on May 30, 2011, 06:19:22 pm
Think you've missed the point Mike. The speed is the idea behind the concept. The machine is motorised which is how it moves so fast. It was developed to clean very large areas of carpet in a short time. It has re-chargable batteries and only lasts 4 hours on a full charge but in that time can clean an immense area.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Dean Davis on May 30, 2011, 06:46:48 pm
Mike you have watched the wrong video,,sorry go to www.carpetmax.co.uk on the home page
where the arrows point to WATCH THIS VIDEO NOW WITH THE POWER OF SURROUND,click on this
and you shall be able to watch the correct video to educate yourself with the Surround Ultra product.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Mike Halliday on May 30, 2011, 07:03:39 pm
Dean, that video is a lot better, at least you can see the cleaning taking place, the first video i watched you could see no difference
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Dean Davis on May 30, 2011, 07:11:47 pm
Yes the first video you watched is promoting the meterage that can be covered with the
fastest carpet cleaning machine in the world,that machine is used on conference centres,hotels
and football grounds etc as John Kelly rightly pointed out.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Mark Lawrence on May 30, 2011, 07:21:07 pm
Er, is it just me but why is he 'bonnetting' with an encap - as opposed to scrubbing in and leaving? By absorbing the encap, not so much will be left behind to do its job? Then he goes on to show the pad 'dirty' when thats not how its supposed to be used? Strange.

Also why is he bonnetting anyway with the pressure of the brushes (used for scrubbing/agitating other surfaces!) on top the bonnett? Do they not have proper drive boards to give better weight distribution and grip?

I like the sprayer on the front though.

Mark
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: alan lewis on May 30, 2011, 08:06:46 pm
Some good points there Mark, i was just about to type....can you use a contra rotating brush machine with encap? like you i would have thought the idea of encap products was to leave the solution in the carpet to encapsulate the soil to be removed when dry with a vacuum.

Alan
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Dean Davis on May 30, 2011, 08:16:22 pm
Yes we use a Host freestyle machine to beat the encap into the carpet.Oxymagic also use the same system in the States.This system with the encap mixed with Oxygen is huge in the States.Zerodrytime in the UK use this method too.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on May 30, 2011, 08:32:31 pm
So in reality does the client in a large commercial office vacuum the carpet the after it has been encapped, or is that just wishful thinking?


Simon
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: mark shannon on May 30, 2011, 08:36:29 pm
Can I use any oxidiser in the encap product?

Found I get good results brushing it in with my rotary brush.

Drys in under an hour so postvac myself if its necessary.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: gwrightson on May 30, 2011, 09:30:20 pm
Simon, i have never had any objection to the client vaccing after the use of encap,and as most of the larger businesses have in house cleaner themselves they simply make sure that the vaccing is a priority, I do how ever ensure that they are aware of the neccesity of post vaccing, never had an objection yet.

Geoff
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: wynne jones on May 30, 2011, 09:39:36 pm
When I first started encapping I thought it would be obvious there were all these shampoo crystals to vac up but once dry there appeared to be nothing there.

I also thought that my vacuum bag would fill up with all this encaspulate when dry but to be honest don't notice much different. So where does it go, or is it a very slow process over time? This has been the case with several different products.

 
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Neil Williams on May 30, 2011, 09:58:19 pm
So in reality does the client in a large commercial office vacuum the carpet the after it has been encapped, or is that just wishful thinking?

I also find it strange that you can walk away having (and in effect) not completed the job, with leaving the client to finish off the job for you.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: mark shannon on May 30, 2011, 10:15:46 pm
Simple really wait for it to dry, maybe an hour on LP, or go back and vac.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on May 30, 2011, 10:24:38 pm
So what's the going rate for encap in comparison to hwe?
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: gwrightson on May 31, 2011, 06:21:28 pm
So in reality does the client in a large commercial office vacuum the carpet the after it has been encapped, or is that just wishful thinking?

I also find it strange that you can walk away having (and in effect) not completed the job, with leaving the client to finish off the job for you.


Well neil, I was expecting a reply along the lines of your reply, exactly the same has happened on past posts discussing encap, 2 ways of looking at it really , 1. ensure you go back 24 hrs later and vac adding expense to the final bill, as waiting an hour as suggested is not the answer. 2. ensure you agree the vacuuming is done by the client keeping the cost down, I know what i prefer to do, suggesting the job is not completed is twaddle. but each to his own.
Simon, I charge around £1 per sq mtre using cimex, this is pre vac and application, slight adjustment made for certain factors,ie.size furniture etc.
Geoff
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Mike Halliday on June 01, 2011, 08:21:38 pm
here's an interesting article on encapsulation cleaning

http://www.cleanfax.com/carpet-cleaning/article/encapsulation-solutions
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: steven Banks on June 01, 2011, 08:35:50 pm
It's hardly expensive, I used it few days back on £280 job, cost maybe £5 in product.

Thats the way i look at it too!
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: andrew christopher on June 01, 2011, 08:59:47 pm
Can I use any oxidiser in the encap product?

Mark

I use chemspec energiser with rotobrite on dirty low profiles, hard to tell how much difference it makes as not done any real tests but for what it costs i use it.

Andy
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on June 02, 2011, 08:53:22 am
Got some surround encap yesterday so I'm going to try it on a job at the weekend.
 :o

Simon
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: gwrightson on June 02, 2011, 07:35:05 pm
would be interesting to know of your thoughts on it simon ? I dont htink you will be dissapointed.,
What sytem /method will you be using .

Geoff
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on June 02, 2011, 07:49:26 pm
Geoff,
Dry vac, spray and pad for starters.

Simon
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: davep on June 02, 2011, 07:52:44 pm
Or scrub with flexi and then pad?
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on June 05, 2011, 03:56:26 pm
Just done a big office job over the weekend so a good place to give Encap a try. I was using the TM with RX and it produced a fantastic result but did one small office with encap and padded it and to be fair it looked the same as two similar sized offices I RX'd.
Then tried a small section of the main reception area which was quite dirty and stained (pale green carpet tiles) and that came up surprisingly well as did another section in the main office area. So I can't say it doesn't work because it does but it is very disconcerting when you empty the recovery tank and see all the dirty water, wich then begs the question, 'what happened to all that dirt from the encapped areas?' Well we all know barring the dirt on the pad, it's still in there, but you can't see it.  :-\
Encapped the main reception area after RX and it looked fantastic.

Simon
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Robert Watson on June 05, 2011, 04:54:23 pm
Hi Guys,
I used it last weekend in an office, the carpets weren't too bad apart from the entrance where there were some black marks which I thought would need spotting even with HWE.

Used a flex 5 to pile lift and padded. The entrance came up really well, no need to spot. I was impressed and looking forward to pushing it on a few bad ones.

I do think using a pile lifter would make a big difference.

Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: gwrightson on June 05, 2011, 05:00:18 pm
Just done a big office job over the weekend so a good place to give Encap a try. I was using the TM with RX and it produced a fantastic result but did one small office with encap and padded it and to be fair it looked the same as two similar sized offices I RX'd.
Then tried a small section of the main reception area which was quite dirty and stained (pale green carpet tiles) and that came up surprisingly well as did another section in the main office area. So I can't say it doesn't work because it does but it is very disconcerting when you empty the recovery tank and see all the dirty water, wich then begs the question, 'what happened to all that dirt from the encapped areas?' Well we all know barring the dirt on the pad, it's still in there, but you can't see it.  :-\
Encapped the main reception area after RX and it looked fantastic.

Simon

Simon ,
That is the whole point of encap, the encapapsulation properties surrounding and trapping the dirt, which is simply vacuumed up the following day.
Geoff
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: Simon Gerrard on June 05, 2011, 08:29:19 pm
Next time I'm going to pre-vac with the Flexi 5 andthen  Encap with it and see what happens.

Simon
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: mark shannon on June 05, 2011, 09:19:37 pm
Sounds like the perfect combination.

Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: John Klucznik on January 12, 2012, 06:50:32 pm
As far as Stainsheild gores consider this:
 Several manufacturers claim to have a carpet protector built into their product. I have a problem with this. Some protectors come pre-mixed but most mix 1:1 or 1: 3. That’s one gallon of concentrate at a cost of $40 to $50 dollars per gallon of concentrate on average.

Now a cleaning product manufacturer wants you to believe that their $30 dollar a gallon product, that mixes only 6 ounces of concentrate into a gallon of water, has enough chemical protector in it to be effective. Don’t forget they also need room for the polymers, detergents, surfactants and so on. Even the straight six ounces of concentrate would not be enough, let alone reducing it further by adding the other ingredients and water that’s already in the encaps formula before it is diluted into the gallon of water. The math simply does not support this if you think about it.
Title: Re: Surround Encap
Post by: John Klucznik on January 12, 2012, 07:34:27 pm
When I first started encapping I thought it would be obvious there were all these shampoo crystals to vac up but once dry there appeared to be nothing there.

I also thought that my vacuum bag would fill up with all this encaspulate when dry but to be honest don't notice much different. So where does it go, or is it a very slow process over time? This has been the case with several different products.

 
Did you know that the coating on a carpet fiber of encap polymer is under 1 micron thick? To put this into perspective, a pin head is 2 millimeters. A drop of water on a microscope slide is approximately one millimeter. A micron is 1,000 times smaller than 1 millimeter. We're talking about a coating on the surface of a filament of carpet fiber that measures about 50 microns (40xs smaller than a pinhead) or a third the diameter of a human hair

So to answer your question the amount of encap on the fibers is a very small amount. The soil/encap will come out over time. If you ran your vac before the you did the job, how much was in the bag from the first vacuuming? I realize that you may not know this. A good amount of the soil ( if the chemical worked) will go into the bonnet. The evidence of that is not only the color of the bonnet but the soil it releases into the washing machine water. The amount left behind both soil and poly will/ should be a very small amount.