Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Hilton on May 18, 2011, 11:59:35 am
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Have others noticed the rise in lettings and rental related enquiries ?
Certainly this is going to be a major growth sector for many years to come mainly due the current economic situation and first time buyers being unable to make the deposit required for a mortgage.
The average age now for a first time buyer is 30 yrs of age.
Of course they do not want to live with mum and dad but can not afford to buy, so are moving into the rented market hence the growth, I can see this booming in the next five years.
We have had a love- hate relationship with lettings agencies in the past but I think we need to take a different look at it now and are looking to set up relationships which will mutually benefit both parties, offering a better VFM service by way of rate cards so they know before cleaning what the costs are likely to be or/and offering an inventory service linked to the cleaning.
Agencies tell me that disputes between tennants and landlords/letting agencies have rocketed with cleaning costs being one of the major factors in the disputes, ie condition of carpets pre let as opposed to post let as a consequence deposits are lost and a dispute begins.
Is anybody doing and experiencing something similar ?
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i personall think this will actually shrink. where as before people woud live somewhere a couple years and then move into their own house or another better place, they wont now as they can't afford it. they'll have to rent and stay put for longer meaning less cleans for that property. in that time they are less likely to clean the carpets every 6 months/1 year as why would they care, and then when they move they chose the cheapest rather then someone who will take care of someone elses carpets or even just rent a rug doctor. it's not their carpets they just need to show it's been cleaned.
it's also less money per clean. our compeition charges £120 for a property to be cleaned and £140 with carpets, so that's £20 for a full property carpets. hardly worth it and def not worth it for someone who just does carpets as how can you compete with someone offering both services for far less.
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omg doom and gloom I am going to lose the 10s of 1000,s of £ s that we do with rental properties after 20 years I might as well just pack up.
The rental market will continue to grow untill the government changes any tax/ income benefits on the ownership of multiple properties. There is a lot of business out there a lot of how much of it you get with depend on your attiude.
Peter
www.carpetcleaningcardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleaningcardiff.com)
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i honeslty don't get your post petermaybury. why are you on about doom and gloom? also when you say the rental market will continue to grow, do you mean the carpet cleaning or the rental market or just renters in general will grow or both?
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I believe that he was extracting the Michael out of your post kermit.
;D ;D
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yeah but it didn't make sense. i send it'll shrink imo because of xyz and he said doom and gloom. there's taking the pee and there's whatever petermaybury was trying to do ???
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In my view the rental market for cleaning is expanding with the terms and conditions of the tennancy agreements but as 1st time buyers can't get a mortgage or won't commit to a big mortgage the reverse is that you can't get many buy to let mortgages are hard to come by I am wanting 2 but I need to put 40% down to get a decent APR even though I have equity in my other buy to lets which are paid for, the banks are allowing renting to become bigger and bigger where landlords numbers will stay the same creating higher rents and in turn not many new mortgages.
From a cleaning point of view we will do well albeit price sensitive.
Shaun
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I have done 5 EOT full cleans each averaging £325 in the past 3 weeks, and I have 2 more for next week so something is moving and it represents real growth. Deposits are a months rent in our area. I always recommend to the agencies I work with to take photo's during inventory to save on disputes later. It still staggers me how thoughtless some tenants can be I have seen some real grotty kitchens, complete lackof basic hygene. One i'm convinced never vacuumed. Some of these properties are turning around 6 monthly or yearly and we are repeating work particularly in 2 bedroom/small house sized properties.
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I was taking the p the letting market is massive and it is lucrative if you can really get an opportunity to ply your trade. Many landlords are skipping cleanable carpets because they have the mentality that a carpet cleaner is a carpet cleaner. I have a lot of customers letting agents, house-letters, housing associations etc that do not even ask for a price but tell me to go and do my stuff. It takes time to build up relationships and many of my clients have used me for years. I have just done a job for a letting agent ( the largest in our area) that I have been marketing to for 15 years. I have been going into their office and not been able to meet any descision makers then a few weeks ago did a job for the owners brother in law who sang my praises. So the first thing the owner of the letting agency said to me when he saw the results was " if I had used you years ago I would have save myself a small fortune".
So we will see where that on goes. You can not do a good job for peanuts and you cannot run descent equipment for nothing.
Even in this day and age there are a lot of large volume customers that have not seen truckmounts in action and there is always an opportunity, if you are negative about things you will not get anywhere.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com
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ok i must have miss read the thread. i thought we were talking about our opinions on how the size of the market will change because of the current economic crisis and not is it a big market.
because it was big for the last 15 years doesn't disprove that as wallets get tighter it'll now become smaller and a harder market to get into due to the reasons i listed. i think it's fair to say less people will move now (then if there wasn't an economic crisis), less people will want to pay good money for a clean, less peopel will even want to get a cleaner as they can rent a rug doctor and do it to a good enough standard by themselves, less peopel will buy expensive carpets that need more "time" spent and therefore a bigger bill
i still don't get the taking the pee. i said i tihnk it'll get smaller now then if there wasn't an economic crisis. you took the pee as you think it's a big market but i never said it was small. ok...
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In my view the rental market for cleaning is expanding with the terms and conditions of the tennancy agreements but as 1st time buyers can't get a mortgage or won't commit to a big mortgage the reverse is that you can't get many buy to let mortgages are hard to come by I am wanting 2 but I need to put 40% down to get a decent APR even though I have equity in my other buy to lets which are paid for, the banks are allowing renting to become bigger and bigger where landlords numbers will stay the same creating higher rents and in turn not many new mortgages.
From a cleaning point of view we will do well albeit price sensitive.
Shaun
If they are paid for sell them to a holding company put 40$ down and take out new mortgage use remaining cash for deposits on new investments
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i personall think this will actually shrink. where as before people woud live somewhere a couple years and then move into their own house or another better place, they wont now as they can't afford it. they'll have to rent and stay put for longer meaning less cleans for that property. in that time they are less likely to clean the carpets every 6 months/1 year as why would they care, and then when they move they chose the cheapest rather then someone who will take care of someone elses carpets or even just rent a rug doctor. it's not their carpets they just need to show it's been cleaned.
it's also less money per clean. our compeition charges £120 for a property to be cleaned and £140 with carpets, so that's £20 for a full property carpets. hardly worth it and def not worth it for someone who just does carpets as how can you compete with someone offering both services for far less.
This is exactly where the disputes will come from, if you are the landlord and the Tennant hires a DIY machine the results will not be acceptable to you or the next Tennant so they refuse the clean and will then get a professional in.Of course the Tennant moving out will be stung twice then for the clean which comes out of his deposit....This crops up all the time and is the most common dispute in our experience.
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if disputes are at an all time high over cleaning, and the most common reason is because the tenant is now doing it themselves this kind of proves my point that more tenants are choosing the cheaper option and not the expensive professionals. although many get disputed a bet many don't. we've done plenty of cleans where the tenant has said they'll clean the oven/carpet as they don't think it's worth paying the money for someone else to do the one job and they get it to a good standard. As this economic crisis continues more people will look to cheaper methods.
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Most tenants are brow beaten by landlords
Often the Carpet is not worth the price of the clean
If a carpet is aledgley ruined due to say a make up stain
Landlords think new carpet
Not so
Carpet 7 years old cost £80
Landlords loss £5
I talked to a guy who runs an inventory company and has the qualification
He assures me this is the legal outcome
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if disputes are at an all time high over cleaning, and the most common reason is because the tenant is now doing it themselves this kind of proves my point that more tenants are choosing the cheaper option and not the expensive professionals. although many get disputed a bet many don't. we've done plenty of cleans where the tenant has said they'll clean the oven/carpet as they don't think it's worth paying the money for someone else to do the one job and they get it to a good standard. As this economic crisis continues more people will look to cheaper methods.
Obviously not if enquiries and bookings are up.
Dont think you read my reply properly, people are trying to clean themselves thinking that in its self is good enough, which of course its not if its a poor result and not acceptable to the landlord.
The landlord/letting agent will want proof by way of a invoice to show new a tennant that the carpet has been properly cleaned.
If there is a make up stain or similar on the carpet that was not there on letting then the landlord is within his rights to get the carpet cleaned and if it fails take a portion of the deposit for both the cleaning and the carpet replacement, allowing for wear and tear.
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I id one last week and they had also used some sort of hire machine.
The residue and foam was unbelivable that came out ;D
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Letting agents in our area are saying that things are stagnant, once people are in, they stay. In.
The rates for EOT cleaning is on the floor, dont know how people make a profit, went into an agency tother week and their current cleaners were just walking out. It was there office cleaners doing it! Couple of bog rolls in a tray, some j cloths and a few different types of Mr Muscle.
My other half has a few properties and the tennants are staying, arent moving, she hasnt put the rents up for ages, so tenants stay. If they go you nearly allways a have a month or so slack whereby you dont have some one in there paying rent.
Also one of my biggest LA's has now gone into doing Inventories as ther isnt the profit in the lettings anymore and no agro either. No moaning tennants or moaning Landlords. Evidently easier money and lots of it.
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Begs the question if they are doing inventories then they must be letting ???
Probably a geographical thing but we have had an uplift in enquiries.
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hilton: afaik most inventory companies are separate from the estate agent i suppose so they haven't got conflicting interests.
from this thread it's clear for the past 15 years this has been a decent sized market. i'd say you're getting enquiries now not because it's become bigger but because you're say higher on google, or competition no longer does this etc.
i can't see why overall this market would grow due to the economic crisis.
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I have recently been getting more EOT's, but by the tenants and not the letting agents.
I only do carpet and upholstery though and not the whole kit ie ovens and walls etc.
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Same here with more enquireys by the tennants.
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Letting agents in our area are saying that things are stagnant, once people are in, they stay. In.
The rates for EOT cleaning is on the floor, dont know how people make a profit, went into an agency tother week and their current cleaners were just walking out. It was there office cleaners doing it! Couple of bog rolls in a tray, some j cloths and a few different types of Mr Muscle.
My other half has a few properties and the tennants are staying, arent moving, she hasnt put the rents up for ages, so tenants stay. If they go you nearly allways a have a month or so slack whereby you dont have some one in there paying rent.
Also one of my biggest LA's has now gone into doing Inventories as ther isnt the profit in the lettings anymore and no agro either. No moaning tennants or moaning Landlords. Evidently easier money and lots of it.
Hi
I was talking with my LA client today and we were discussing exactly that, there are more lettings but people are staying put which equates to no movement and as EOT cleaners you need movement for continious work, otherwise there isn't any.
Time will tell I guess.
Martin 8)
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I`ve lost most of my eot work down here pretty much down to price. I only do carpet and upolstery but they just dont seem to want to pay. I was charging around £150-160 for an empty 3 bed house which I dont think is that expensive.
The only time I ever get calls now are when the carpets are absolutely minging because they know the sort of work I do. Also get calls from the owners of the lettin agents to clean their carpets because they know they get done properly.
One particular agent, who i used to do loads for have called me three times this year. 2 unbelivabely terrible carpets which I could have drastically improved but turned down my quote and the owner whose massive house I cleaned. I even rent 2 properties out through this agent and inbetween the last let, I asked them if the carpets needed cleaning to which they replied `its ok, weve already had them done`!!
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;D Bloody cheek , you should complained about the quality of the carpet clean.
Like I say probably geographical but I can only see this area getting busier.
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the advice on these boards is don't rely on it as they are quick to drop you if you can't clean a carpet sunday evening that's just one bedroom and you only get told saturday morning etc.
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the advice on these boards is don't rely on it especially if its written by an idiot like me.
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that's not nice to say about yourself garyj. you should have more confidence in yourself as i'm sure there's some wisedom in that head of yours.
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two reports out on Friday and reported on the news shows rental demand at record high.
Answers the question
;)
The demand for rented accommodation in the UK is reaching record levels.
That is according to Paragon Mortgages, which carried out research and found that a huge majority of landlords are seeing demand for their properties grow.
In total, 92 per cent of respondents say that demand is stable, growing or booming and Paragon claims that this is the second highest level on record.
The mortgage provider says that these results point to a changing housing market with people opting to rent instead of buy due to its affordability and flexibility.
In addition to these figures, Paragon also discovered that landlords’ properties are now empty for less time than previous years, with the average property being without a tenant for just 2.96 weeks per year – a fall of two per cent compared to the last quarter.
“We have been running this survey for five years and have seen a very strong trend of growing tenant demand throughout this period,” commented John Heron, director of Paragon Mortgages.
“But recently, in both our own research and that of others, we’ve seen demand for private rented accommodation hit new peaks.
“Demographic influences that underpin the private rented sector are all continuing to rise, which bodes well for continued healthy growth of the buy-to-let sector,” he added.
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I would say 85% of our work is eot, we do work for around 5/6 la and they always keep is busy every month. They have used the cleaners that charge 10per hour and always come back to to us as they know what that they get from us.
With my la we get on very well in the case of going out for dinner and drinks brought by either side but it all comes down to how well you get on with the la.
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Hilton: you should look out for one which says if rental cleaning is at a record high not rental demand. all that says is more people rent then before, so therefore less people are moving out to their own home, so to answer the question less cleans. it also says less time that they are empty which would also suggest that this means less are moving.
my mums rented house is not empty this year where as it was previous years so it wont be cleaned in between tenancy. 1 of my brothers and 1 of my sisters is at uni and they wont be moving either as rent is cheaper for them if it's not empty for 2 months, and they don't need to get it cleaned.
don't get me wrong i'd love it if eot cleans increased as we get loads of them but i just don't see how it'll get better with the economic crisis. there is still just as many houses then there was before with carpets or even less as eot places often go for cheap wood flooring, but there is also now less houses where the customer will want to pay top money, and less houses where you get a customer for life as they'll be typically be cleaned once at the end of tenancy and never in the middle where as home owners may be once every 6 months.
i'd rather clean a decent quality carpet for a home owner so i can take my time and charge a better amount for a better job, then clean a cheap rubbish quality trashed carpet that the person paying doesn't want to pay for.
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Hilton: you should look out for one which says if rental cleaning is at a record high not rental demand. all that says is more people rent then before, so therefore less people are moving out to their own home, so to answer the question less cleans. it also says less time that they are empty which would also suggest that this means less are moving.
my mums rented house is not empty this year where as it was previous years so it wont be cleaned in between tenancy. 1 of my brothers and 1 of my sisters is at uni and they wont be moving either as rent is cheaper for them if it's not empty for 2 months, and they don't need to get it cleaned.
don't get me wrong i'd love it if eot cleans increased as we get loads of them but i just don't see how it'll get better with the economic crisis. there is still just as many houses then there was before with carpets or even less as eot places often go for cheap wood flooring, but there is also now less houses where the customer will want to pay top money, and less houses where you get a customer for life as they'll be typically be cleaned once at the end of tenancy and never in the middle where as home owners may be once every 6 months.
i'd rather clean a decent quality carpet for a home owner so i can take my time and charge a better amount for a better job, then clean a cheap rubbish quality trashed carpet that the person paying doesn't want to pay for.
There are several reports out there saying just that but research for yourself, I put one on as an example. My original point was that we have seen an increase in business from this sector and tried to find out why.
We always watch the trends on whats going on out there, but you can lead a horse to water as they say.