Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Seymour Sunshine on May 15, 2011, 09:42:05 pm

Title: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Seymour Sunshine on May 15, 2011, 09:42:05 pm
I spent a couple of days working with water at 020 TDS and the results were absolutely fine. The windows dried without any spots at all.

What's all this "you MUST have 000 or you'll get spots" business then?
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: dazmond on May 15, 2011, 09:49:13 pm
you need glasses mate!!everyone else can see the spotting apart from you!GET DOWN TO THE OPTICIANS FIRST THING TOMORROW FOR AN EYE TEST!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on May 15, 2011, 09:51:32 pm
no dazmond i am with seymour on this one...(stands back and waits for comments about professionalism)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Smudger on May 15, 2011, 09:56:50 pm
well pointed out sunshine


Darran
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Lee GLS on May 15, 2011, 09:57:08 pm
I'm running at 7 at the moment, no spotting at all, I'm happy to let it run to 10.


After all if you can clean windows in the rain and tell your customers if won't affect the cleaning, the there is no reason to have water with 000 reading
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Mist A Bit on May 15, 2011, 09:58:08 pm
i lost my tds meter so didn`t know my tds for the past two weeks. got a new meter to find i`d been using water 014ppm and my work was still spot on

steve
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: AuRavelling79 on May 15, 2011, 10:02:10 pm
I work to 000/005 as a general rule (I fill the van with 000 and my resin is on my RO at home) but happily work in the 005 to 010 range before changing the resin. If a tankful slipped thru' at 015 I'd use it up but 010 is as high as it's gone.
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: LWC on May 15, 2011, 10:07:01 pm
I also have been using 020 with no problems, well no complaints anyway!

I dont know what you could use it up to. Be nice to know! Ive just changed my resin anyway.

What we need to know is what leaves the water marks, lime in the water?? Surely the RO wipes all this out? At my old house the water came out at 050, and the RO produced 000, but i still put it through the resin but was there any need for resin?

I aint got a clue.
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: BORBRYCE on May 15, 2011, 10:25:22 pm
It's damage limitation guys. I have loads of work that requires internal cleaning, too fekin much in fact. I always use 000 and and by default use a very high flow rate. Now,,,,when I clean the inside I can see spotting almost on every edge of every pane of glass. So.....I recon most of you never really have the opportunity to realistically test your own workmanship. If as I do, you use a high flow rate, and if using 000 tds,as I do, whilst still scrubbing everything in sight so as to avoid spotting, still leaves spotting, all be it lightly, then using purified water to anything less than 000 is a big fat no no in my experienced and well very intelligent great big brain.
In short, if you could see your work when dry and you were utterly and completely honest with even just yourself, well you would be like me I guess....just a wee tad concerned, and to make you feel better, you would use 000 in every case just to make yourself feel better.  
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Lee GLS on May 15, 2011, 10:30:47 pm
I don't know what you are doing ronnie, but I have a large office block and a bog house that I do in and out every month, and there is no spotting, the only problem I have is a couple of runs on the house as it has old sash windows and the water gets under the paint on the top edge of the bottom section.
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: darragh windows on May 15, 2011, 10:53:11 pm
im double di whats the point of me letting mine run up to 20 ,its only eating into my second di
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 15, 2011, 10:59:28 pm
I've cleaned with 036 before with spotless results. Was a large country house in & out so I got to check fully the results.

However, this was just me being lazy with the TDS meter, I have twin DI so it's of no benefit for me to wring the neck of the resin! ;)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: bobplum on May 15, 2011, 11:00:23 pm
i lost my tds meter so didn`t know my tds for the past two weeks. got a new meter to find i`d been using water 014ppm and my work was still spot on

steve

good pun
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: JS_Cleaning on May 15, 2011, 11:06:23 pm
im 2 years now on a merlin and same tank of resin, water still comes out of the merlin at 000 to 010 depending on how often i fill it (i only use wfp about 9 hours a week), if my resin ever runs out id seriously consider ditching it
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: G Griffin on May 15, 2011, 11:38:29 pm
You lot are shocking; I will only work with -0005, yes minus, at the most.
It gives me peace of mind  8).
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: mikecam on May 16, 2011, 01:15:59 am
i've cleaned with 32ppm with perfect results. I'm not advocating anyone should do this but it certainley confirms the OP's zero TDS myth in my eyes.
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: dd on May 16, 2011, 08:03:53 am
I have not used resin for about 4 years. The water comes out of the RO around 004.

IMO if your RO performs well you do not need resin.
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Spruce on May 16, 2011, 08:48:20 am
I also have been using 020 with no problems, well no complaints anyway!

I dont know what you could use it up to. Be nice to know! Ive just changed my resin anyway.

What we need to know is what leaves the water marks, lime in the water?? Surely the RO wipes all this out? At my old house the water came out at 050, and the RO produced 000, but i still put it through the resin but was there any need for resin?

I aint got a clue.

Hi Sensai,

The advice I was given once by Peter Fogwill a few years ago was if the pure coming out of the membranes is within a couple of points ie 000 - 002, then there is no point polishing it off with resin. He also said that the resin can go 'off' after a period of time if not being used.

Spruce.
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: dazmond on May 16, 2011, 10:53:05 am
my tap water is 30tds at the moment so in theory i could just fill up barrels and use it without it going through any resin!! ;D ;D

im not gonna chance it though.000-010 for me and thats it.
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: the bfg on May 16, 2011, 11:14:05 am
It's damage limitation guys. I have loads of work that requires internal cleaning, too fekin much in fact. I always use 000 and and by default use a very high flow rate. Now,,,,when I clean the inside I can see spotting almost on every edge of every pane of glass. So.....I recon most of you never really have the opportunity to realistically test your own workmanship. If as I do, you use a high flow rate, and if using 000 tds,as I do, whilst still scrubbing everything in sight so as to avoid spotting, still leaves spotting, all be it lightly, then using purified water to anything less than 000 is a big fat no no in my experienced and well very intelligent great big brain.
In short, if you could see your work when dry and you were utterly and completely honest with even just yourself, well you would be like me I guess....just a wee tad concerned, and to make you feel better, you would use 000 in every case just to make yourself feel better.  

















well said Ronaldo.

to many window cleaners judge their cleaning from what the windows look outside when theve finnished,     but its a different story if you go inside and check them.

Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Lee GLS on May 16, 2011, 12:05:45 pm
Who ranaldo bfg?   ;D
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Perfect Windows on May 16, 2011, 12:46:02 pm
It's damage limitation guys. I have loads of work that requires internal cleaning, too fekin much in fact. I always use 000 and and by default use a very high flow rate. Now,,,,when I clean the inside I can see spotting almost on every edge of every pane of glass. So.....I recon most of you never really have the opportunity to realistically test your own workmanship. If as I do, you use a high flow rate, and if using 000 tds,as I do, whilst still scrubbing everything in sight so as to avoid spotting, still leaves spotting, all be it lightly, then using purified water to anything less than 000 is a big fat no no in my experienced and well very intelligent great big brain.
In short, if you could see your work when dry and you were utterly and completely honest with even just yourself, well you would be like me I guess....just a wee tad concerned, and to make you feel better, you would use 000 in every case just to make yourself feel better.  

well said Ronaldo.

to many window cleaners judge their cleaning from what the windows look outside when theve finnished,     but its a different story if you go inside and check them.



That's why I do my own windows every twelve weeks and have a good look from the inside.

And why, whenever I want to try something new, e.g. fan jets, etc, I test them on a couple of neighbours who get a free clean in return for my being allowed to inspect.

Vin
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 01:44:39 pm
The water coming out the brush on my Harris pole is always 100% pure.. 000!!!!   ;)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Seymour Sunshine on May 16, 2011, 02:16:33 pm
Hey hoggy. You're known for being pretty smart. How much money are you spending on resin that you could be keeping in your pocket ...  or spending on buying a proper pole? (Hee hee.)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 03:05:13 pm
Hey hoggy. You're known for being pretty smart. How much money are you spending on resin that you could be keeping in your pocket ...  or spending on buying a proper pole? (Hee hee.)

I purchased a bag of resin when I first got wfp 5 or 6 years ago, and I'm still using the same bag!! I change it every 3-4 months I suppose, by the way I have got an slx, I just prefer using a good old Harris pole on my regular work!!  ;)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 03:47:45 pm
Hey hoggy. You're known for being pretty smart. How much money are you spending on resin that you could be keeping in your pocket ...  or spending on buying a proper pole? (Hee hee.)

I purchased a bag of resin when I first got wfp 5 or 6 years ago, and I'm still using the same bag!! I change it every 3-4 months I suppose, by the way I have got an slx, I just prefer using a good old Harris pole on my regular work!!  ;)

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: the bfg on May 16, 2011, 04:43:06 pm
Who ranaldo bfg?   ;D















Ronnie B is Ronaldo
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: Seymour Sunshine on May 16, 2011, 05:20:25 pm
my tap water is 30tds at the moment so in theory i could just fill up barrels and use it without it going through any resin!! ;D ;D

im not gonna chance it though.000-010 for me and thats it.

I guess you must use DI only then. Why not give raw 030 water a try on your own house or a couple of mates houses and just see what the results are like?
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: dazmond on May 16, 2011, 05:38:43 pm
tried cleaning my own windows with straight tap water(32 tds)this morning and guess what?they ve come up perfect!! ;D ;D ;D

i wont be using it for my customers windows though.000 every time.just doesnt "sit right" with me to use tap water.my tds sometimes goes up to 100 depending if the water companies  use a different reserviour to supply my water so DI first methinks.

dazmond
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 06:33:07 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 06:52:12 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 07:30:24 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 07:49:43 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(

You sure? I've had mine nearly 4 years & I can still read mine. How old is it?

What does it say on the clamps?
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 07:58:31 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(

You sure? I've had mine nearly 4 years & I can still read mine. How old is it?

What does it say on the clamps?

GARDINER   ;)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 08:01:14 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(

You sure? I've had mine nearly 4 years & I can still read mine. How old is it?

What does it say on the clamps?

GARDINER   ;)

Yeah, that was a bit too easy.

I don't believe that there is no writing left on the base section, especially as you prefer to use your Harris pole! ;D ;D

You'll have to get up a bit earlier in the day Hoggy to pull the wool over my eyes! ;D
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 08:07:13 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(

You sure? I've had mine nearly 4 years & I can still read mine. How old is it?

What does it say on the clamps?

GARDINER   ;)

Yeah, that was a bit too easy.

I don't believe that there is no writing left on the base section, especially as you prefer to use your Harris pole! ;D ;D

You'll have to get up a bit earlier in the day Hoggy to pull the wool over my eyes! ;D

I never lie!! And I dont understand why you think that I am!!???  ???
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 08:09:33 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(

You sure? I've had mine nearly 4 years & I can still read mine. How old is it?

What does it say on the clamps?

GARDINER   ;)

Yeah, that was a bit too easy.

I don't believe that there is no writing left on the base section, especially as you prefer to use your Harris pole! ;D ;D

You'll have to get up a bit earlier in the day Hoggy to pull the wool over my eyes! ;D

I never lie!! And I dont understand why you think that I am!!???  ???

 ;D ;D ;D
Last banana boat Hoggy! ;)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 08:16:10 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(

You sure? I've had mine nearly 4 years & I can still read mine. How old is it?

What does it say on the clamps?

GARDINER   ;)

Yeah, that was a bit too easy.

I don't believe that there is no writing left on the base section, especially as you prefer to use your Harris pole! ;D ;D

You'll have to get up a bit earlier in the day Hoggy to pull the wool over my eyes! ;D

I never lie!! And I dont understand why you think that I am!!???  ???

 ;D ;D ;D
Last banana boat Hoggy! ;)

Think what you like Wimpo, I have an slx.. and thats a fact!!  >:(
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 08:16:55 pm

What does it say, what is written on the the base section of your SLX Hoggy?

 ??? Why  ???

I'm just interested to know what it says on your model. Can you have a look?

Just had a look, and it dosn't say anything!! It probably did when it was new.. but it dosn't now!!  :'(

You sure? I've had mine nearly 4 years & I can still read mine. How old is it?

What does it say on the clamps?

GARDINER   ;)

Yeah, that was a bit too easy.

I don't believe that there is no writing left on the base section, especially as you prefer to use your Harris pole! ;D ;D

You'll have to get up a bit earlier in the day Hoggy to pull the wool over my eyes! ;D

I never lie!! And I dont understand why you think that I am!!???  ???

 ;D ;D ;D
Last banana boat Hoggy! ;)

Think what you like Wimpo, I have an slx.. and thats a fact!!  >:(

Whatever! ::)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 08:27:28 pm
As soon as I can get a camera sorted out, I'm going to make a new series of vids showing me using an slx and then a Harris pole, to show that on your average house there is little difference.. apart from the fact that the Harris pole can get the job done quicker, and costs several hundred quid less!!
No one else has taken up the challenge which I originally posted nearly 3 years ago!! If anyone hasn't read the thread, then do a search for Harris pole in action ... it is over 30 pages long, and only ended when a moderator locked it!!
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: mikecam on May 16, 2011, 09:06:27 pm
As soon as I can get a camera sorted out, I'm going to make a new series of vids showing me using an slx and then a Harris pole, to show that on your average house there is little difference.. apart from the fact that the Harris pole can get the job done quicker, and costs several hundred quid less!!
No one else has taken up the challenge which I originally posted nearly 3 years ago!! If anyone hasn't read the thread, then do a search for Harris pole in action ... it is over 30 pages long, and only ended when a moderator locked it!!
I've never read the original thread, and i agree with you to a point, that using any pole on an average house then they're all the same. CLX/SLX/EXtel/Harris there can't be much difference on an average straight up and down box house. The difference is when you have to go over connys and extensions. And you aint reaching over no 15 foot extension with a harris pole. Of course you could always waste some time and go get the 22 foot SLX out the van and make it easy !!!  ;D
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 09:36:14 pm
As soon as I can get a camera sorted out, I'm going to make a new series of vids showing me using an slx and then a Harris pole, to show that on your average house there is little difference.. apart from the fact that the Harris pole can get the job done quicker, and costs several hundred quid less!!
No one else has taken up the challenge which I originally posted nearly 3 years ago!! If anyone hasn't read the thread, then do a search for Harris pole in action ... it is over 30 pages long, and only ended when a moderator locked it!!
I've never read the original thread, and i agree with you to a point, that using any pole on an average house then they're all the same. CLX/SLX/EXtel/Harris there can't be much difference on an average straight up and down box house. The difference is when you have to go over connys and extensions. And you aint reaching over no 15 foot extension with a harris pole. Of course you could always waste some time and go get the 22 foot SLX out the van and make it easy !!!  ;D
 

My slx is 30ft...
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: mikecam on May 16, 2011, 10:34:03 pm
As soon as I can get a camera sorted out, I'm going to make a new series of vids showing me using an slx and then a Harris pole, to show that on your average house there is little difference.. apart from the fact that the Harris pole can get the job done quicker, and costs several hundred quid less!!
No one else has taken up the challenge which I originally posted nearly 3 years ago!! If anyone hasn't read the thread, then do a search for Harris pole in action ... it is over 30 pages long, and only ended when a moderator locked it!!
I've never read the original thread, and i agree with you to a point, that using any pole on an average house then they're all the same. CLX/SLX/EXtel/Harris there can't be much difference on an average straight up and down box house. The difference is when you have to go over connys and extensions. And you aint reaching over no 15 foot extension with a harris pole. Of course you could always waste some time and go get the 22 foot SLX out the van and make it easy !!!  ;D
 

My slx is 30ft...

Well there you go then !! I wouldn;t try and do any 'ordinary house' with a 30ft pole. Not when i have 15/18/20 foot ones. When i said 'any' pole i should of clarified, within the heights you need !!! I've a 15foot facelift fibre glass one thats fine for ordinary houses. Anyway...Zero TDS ?!!!
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 10:42:29 pm
 

My slx is 30ft...

Well there you go then !! I wouldn;t try and do any 'ordinary house' with a 30ft pole. Not when i have 15/18/20 foot ones. When i said 'any' pole i should of clarified, within the heights you need !!! I've a 15foot facelift fibre glass one thats fine for ordinary houses. Anyway...Zero TDS ?!!!

Perhaps I could remove a couple of sections!!!   8)
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 10:48:50 pm
As soon as I can get a camera sorted out, I'm going to make a new series of vids showing me using an slx and then a Harris pole, to show that on your average house there is little difference.. apart from the fact that the Harris pole can get the job done quicker, and costs several hundred quid less!!
No one else has taken up the challenge which I originally posted nearly 3 years ago!! If anyone hasn't read the thread, then do a search for Harris pole in action ... it is over 30 pages long, and only ended when a moderator locked it!!
I've never read the original thread, and i agree with you to a point, that using any pole on an average house then they're all the same. CLX/SLX/EXtel/Harris there can't be much difference on an average straight up and down box house. The difference is when you have to go over connys and extensions. And you aint reaching over no 15 foot extension with a harris pole. Of course you could always waste some time and go get the 22 foot SLX out the van and make it easy !!!  ;D
 

My slx is 30ft...

Rather miss-leading & now insignificant your whole point then Hoggy wouldn't you say? ::) ;D ;D

Check this out- I am faster with MY harris pole on normal domestic houses than I am with my SL-57!!! :o :o :o

I thought you knew what you were doing Hoggy? ;D
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: groundhog on May 16, 2011, 10:52:28 pm
As soon as I can get a camera sorted out, I'm going to make a new series of vids showing me using an slx and then a Harris pole, to show that on your average house there is little difference.. apart from the fact that the Harris pole can get the job done quicker, and costs several hundred quid less!!
No one else has taken up the challenge which I originally posted nearly 3 years ago!! If anyone hasn't read the thread, then do a search for Harris pole in action ... it is over 30 pages long, and only ended when a moderator locked it!!
I've never read the original thread, and i agree with you to a point, that using any pole on an average house then they're all the same. CLX/SLX/EXtel/Harris there can't be much difference on an average straight up and down box house. The difference is when you have to go over connys and extensions. And you aint reaching over no 15 foot extension with a harris pole. Of course you could always waste some time and go get the 22 foot SLX out the van and make it easy !!!  ;D
 

My slx is 30ft...

Rather miss-leading & now insignificant your whole point then Hoggy wouldn't you say? ::) ;D ;D

Check this out- I am faster with MY harris pole on normal domestic houses than I am with my SL-57!!! :o :o :o

I thought you knew what you were doing Hoggy? ;D

Try to make sense when you post Wimpo!! I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!! ???
Title: Re: The "Zero TDS" Myth
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on May 16, 2011, 10:53:45 pm
As soon as I can get a camera sorted out, I'm going to make a new series of vids showing me using an slx and then a Harris pole, to show that on your average house there is little difference.. apart from the fact that the Harris pole can get the job done quicker, and costs several hundred quid less!!
No one else has taken up the challenge which I originally posted nearly 3 years ago!! If anyone hasn't read the thread, then do a search for Harris pole in action ... it is over 30 pages long, and only ended when a moderator locked it!!
I've never read the original thread, and i agree with you to a point, that using any pole on an average house then they're all the same. CLX/SLX/EXtel/Harris there can't be much difference on an average straight up and down box house. The difference is when you have to go over connys and extensions. And you aint reaching over no 15 foot extension with a harris pole. Of course you could always waste some time and go get the 22 foot SLX out the van and make it easy !!!  ;D
 

My slx is 30ft...

Rather miss-leading & now insignificant your whole point then Hoggy wouldn't you say? ::) ;D ;D

Check this out- I am faster with MY harris pole on normal domestic houses than I am with my SL-57!!! :o :o :o

I thought you knew what you were doing Hoggy? ;D

Try to make sense when you post Wimpo!! I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!! ???

And you never will Hoggy old chap! ;D ;D

However, happy rolling old bean. ;D