Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Patti on May 12, 2011, 03:42:28 pm
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So, it appears because a few people bother Hydramaster for support on a regular basis but never actually buy products from them. We will now have to pay for telephone support. They are offering support packages. The basic being £100. The premium £300
Apart from the very rare occasion, we have never bothered Hydramaster for advice. We mostly buy our chemicals etc from them. I would like to think we could telephone them if we needed them. But I don't think I would want to have to pay £100 for the privilege.
But I can understand why they have done it. Imagine how we would feel if people kept asking us for carpet cleaning advice but never actually asked us to clean their carpet?
How do you feel about these support packages?
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I see now that someone has brought this up before but we've just had the email. Have any of you been contacted by HM about this?
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http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=122127.0
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so let me get this straight.... because HM havn't got the bottle to tell a few idiots to stop taking advantage of HM good nature everyone else has to pay £100.
why not just tell the those that have been taking the p#ss they have had enough free advice and from now on they have to pay.
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Patti supports for Truckmounts not chemical advise.
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i feel a bit cheated really, bought my truckmount off HM and every new part its needed ive bought from them, inc RX and SX, i had someone strip my psi regulater down (no parts needed) that wasn't from HM but that was because i didn't fancy doing the job myself and a 800 mile (12 hours) round trip would of been stupid for a 1 hour (by a pro) job. not sure what to do now.
understand why there doing it but not sure its a good move or a fair one.
ive always given excellent feedback to HM and the team down there, especially on how helpful they are when you have a problem and parts are shipped straight away. looks like i'll have to pay £100 to give good feedback in future, cos without paying it, i won't be able to ring them.
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Would I buy a machine off them? Not if I had to pay for advice after forking out all that money!
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Mike and Derek,
Good points.
I've spent a lot of money with HM over the years and must say I'm not too happy at being asked to pay for the odd occasion I need tech support.
Simon
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Someone please tell me their not charging everyone with this 'fee.'
Because if l were Simon and having spent numerous thousands with them I'd be pretty well naffed off with having to subscribe to a paid help line.
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As far as I know it is across the board, everyone pays.
I do appreciate HM's position with people ringing up for help and then buying parts else where, that's not fair. But for people like me who ring them for tech support (diagnostics) and then order the parts from them, I must say I feel a bit aggrieved and the majority are being asked to pay for the few.
Simon
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But surely this must be free as part of the 12/24 month warrantee (whatever they give) and then another 12 months on top of that ,and it should be backdated too.
Let's put it this way, I have contacted BMW before when I needed advice on my car and I bought it second hand. If they started this 'You pay for advice' stuff i'd sell the car and start using a different manufacturers vehicles.
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allthough i agree that hm carnt keep paying martin to talk on the phone to people who dont buy from them or who use other machines and that charging for this is fair enough.
but what when like lots of others you have spent £thousands with hm over the years and all of a sudden a problem occures and you have to pay for advice to fix it , hm have always given me excellent service and advice and that is the main reason i chose their machine.
im not saying they are wrong to do this but dont know if i think its right to charge regular customers either.
martin- what does the annual service cover as my last annual service cost me close to £300 alone
thanks
dave
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They're stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea, one thing to consider is that with all the help and advice over the phone they have a greater chance of selling another TM in the future as you buy on confidence.
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We pride ourselves in being one of the leading, if not, the leading Truckmount supplier in the UK.
We have worked hard over the years to provide everyone with a good level of service and we aim to get you up and running as soon as possible when a problem occurs.
But, as a business we cannot survive on selling you a machine and then the odd spare part or accessory.
Only a few customers actually buy service items from us, most of you buy your oils and filters etc elsewhere.
Ultimately, if everyone did that we would have no regular business and may not survive and then you would have no help at all.
This decision we have made is not going to please everyone, but it should help to weed out most of the timewasters and ensure that we are still here to serve and help you all in years to come.
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Martin, surely you can build it into the initial purchase cost that the buyer gets 3 years free advice.
These machine don't come cheap in anyones language.
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To save any confusion, if you have a machine that is currently under warranty you do not have to purchase support, you will continue to get free help until the warranty expires.
The HydraMaster machines do come with a free optional 3 year warranty.
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When I bought my 1st HM TM they were flying out of the door especially with the good £ to $ exchange rate the prices were keen but now the £ to $ isn't the same and HM have lost a quarter of their profit coupled with the economic climate where a couple of TM's a week could be sold I be may be a couple a month which makes it hard to keep 'good staff'.
On the other hand customers who have spent on machines from new from HM could feel aggrieved, someone like Glynn who has had may be 5 or more TM's plus accessories and chemicals.
You don't want to push people away but then there's a business to run.
Shaun
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Why do people buy parts elsewhere?
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only ever bought HM oil, only ever bought HM filters. i wouldn't be surprised if my total spends for 3 years has reached 30k with HM alone.
yes i feel aggrieved.
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we all know hm have given great service and martin has given excellent advice but it was only about 12/18 months ago that martin left hm and we thought we were all doomed regarding the advice and fixing of our machines.
so what happens if martins on holiday,off sick or even leaves hm how do we get the expert advice then.
once again im not saying its right or wrong but thats the main reason i brought from hm
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i dread to think what would happen if hm folded, in my opinion hm and martin in particular are the best in this already small area of tm suppliers. i've had to deal with other tm suppliers in the past and would hate to have to again. martin has been on the phone talking me through a problem sometimes for over half-hour at a time, i don't mind paying for that.
how many have AA or RAC cover and never ever use it but we still get it just in case.
colin
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Agree 100% with Colin happy to pay £100 for support and with the discounts it will probably near enough pay for its self.
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Most people will probably wait till there tm is due a service, buy the platinum package and get the service and support for the year.
Here's a machine that could potentially earn £200 an hour that HM want to charge £100 for a years support, it's not a lot is it?
HM have been good to me over the last year and I would have used them if they would service my machine.
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I to have no problem paying £100, as I would only trust and let hydramaster service my tm. I have seen one or two tm machines that have been fixed or service by so called experts, and still they are not running correctly.
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It strikes me that HM want their cake and eat it. On the one hand they are complaining that people don’t buy their service parts from them and then slap a £100 charge for access to the person who can talk you through the parts you need. Then the parts are expensive in comparison to buying them locally and that is the reason people are put off from ordering them, that and the shipping charges.
At the end of the day we have businesses to run as well and costs are a factor and now with this new £100 charge they are making it even more difficult for people to do business with them, which is crazy.
Simon
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not long ago, i bought a £600 pump off HM. the reason i bought this pump at £600 intesad of £340 (which is what i was quoted from another dealer) is because martin diagnosed the problem and also talked me through fitting it myself.
Heres the thread
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=117200.0
as ive all ready pointed out to HM, if i pay this charge then i can get my info from martin and then shop around for the part without feeling guilty. so to be honest, i'm coming round to the idea, i suppose i could even ring them for advice on how to fit the part ;D ;D
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but why are they selling a £340 pump for £600?
I would guess the company are making a profit selling it at £340 so why the massive difference?
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the thing is, i don't mind paying over inflated prices for parts if the back up service is there. which it is with HM. the trouble is now i'm paying for the back up service as well.
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Need to buy a new drimaster tool soon.
£400 + "the dreaded" at HM.
Yet you can buy it direct from the States
for £308 inc shipping, big saving.
John
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I knew very little about TM units before I bought them , however I learn fast ,I have seen a few HM invoices for servicing and repairs . I am guessing that they think because the machines can gross high hourly rates they can charge 4x what a briggs dealer will for an engine service.
The fact is any machanical person can and will work on these units if you look carefully enough .
I think it is a massive myth that they are some complex ,mystical machine that only they can charge high prices to buy and own.
They are all essentially a small engine, a pump , blower and heat exchanger , cobbled together in a garage originally (see Hydramaster us site) they are over complicated for what they do , and if people wish to pay for advice on how to fix faults they are free to do so , but in my opinion it is a waste of cash.
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Need to buy a new drimaster tool soon.
£400 + "the dreaded" at HM.
Yet you can buy it direct from the States
for £308 inc shipping, big saving.
John
JOHN YOU WILL HAVE TO ADD AROUND £50 ON THAT FOR IMPORT DUTY.
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Jason,
With respect, that is complete rubbish. I own a Titan 875 with a 1.6 litre engine and more computing power than it took to put a man on the moon. The modern high end Truck Mounts are run and managed by computers and sophisticated electronic systems, all of which can go wrong. I'm afraid the days of a TM being as you suggest a small engine, a pump and a blower are long gone. We are to an extent reliant on people who understand all of this electronic wizardry, if only it were as simple as you suggest. :o
Simon
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My mobile phone has more electronics in it than it took to put a man on the moon , a throw away £2 chip. A 1.6 litre engine from a 25 year old car is not cutting edge .
Often we pay a high price for an item , and have to tell ourselves that it is worthwhile , in order to keep our sanity .
Yours may be complex (read expensive when it goes wrong) but it is still a small engine , a blower and a pump all plumbed together in a frame.
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Jason,
Stick to what you know about, Jason, there's a good chap. ;D
Simon
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Jason,
Stick to what you know about, Jason, there's a good chap. ;D
Simon
I think you will find my brother is a chartered engineer living in kentucky , and he has been all over a titan , and saw nothing amazing.
I fear you have been caught up in the US style marketing hype.
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Like I said, stick to what you know that way you won't have to play the 'I've got a distant relative who just happens to be an expert in these matters and he'll back me up.' card. Ooops too late, you just did. ;D ;D
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Simple solution would be to buy a tm without computer wizadary, you need psi, enough vac to recover the water put down and enough heat to make the clean easier. Job done :D
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Need to buy a new drimaster tool soon.
£400 + "the dreaded" at HM.
Yet you can buy it direct from the States
for £308 inc shipping, big saving.
John
dont forget you will have to pay the import tax john when it arrives
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jasonl, can you ask your brother the following question please?
On an engine converted to LPG the petrol ECU only is reporting a long term fuel trim of -17%.
How do I go about correcting this please?
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He'll tell you Martin... But you'll have to stump up £300 for the answer ;D ;D ;D
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jasonl, can you ask your brother the following question please?
On an engine converted to LPG the petrol ECU only is reporting a long term fuel trim of -17%.
How do I go about correcting this please?
hit it with a lump hammer???
jasons brother will probably do you a deal..... you tell him why you charge £600 for a pump that other suppliers sell for £340 and he'll answer your question :) :)
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£384 all in.
John
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I know how to correct the problem, I was wondering if Jasons brother came to the same conclusion as me
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He'll tell you if you give him £300 ;D
I suspect it could open the doors for other suppliers to offer services for HM customers who don't want to pay the £100, you could lose customers overnight just be careful!
Shaun
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If you buy a car from a main dealer its runs out of warranty and you start having probs do you get them to give you advice to sort it out for free . i dont think so. If this is way hm want to go fair play . Martin is a very good and for non mechanically minded people like myself explains things very well more than happy to part with £100 for the backup .
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Also happy to pay over the odds for parts?
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You can take the advice and pay for the part elsewhere that is the main issue I suppose but the advice comes at a cost.
Shaun
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jasonl, can you ask your brother the following question please?
On an engine converted to LPG the petrol ECU only is reporting a long term fuel trim of -17%.
How do I go about correcting this please?
Martin , you are way over your head , why would you try and argue with the Chartered engineer/CEO of a leading process engineeering company and ask a basic engine fuelling question that your average grease monkey in a ford dealership could answer.(by the way , I would check anyone of a number of items) Have you spent 5 years at uni becoming an engineer , plus 15 working Globally on processes , oh , didnt think so.
Why not accept that you are selling components neatly packaged together.
Nothing more , nothing less
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Well jasonl it's a little more complicated than a simple rotary scrubber like you have, I could make one out of an old dustbin lid and an old washing machine motor and an old pole for the handle.
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I bought my truckmount from HM over 6 year ago and in that time I've had to contact them regarding problems and parts.
Martin has always attempted to talk me through the problems, sometimes he's been on the line for over half an hour, be fair somebody is paying his wages.
Whilst I was a little surprised by the proposed costs at first, sitting down and thinking about it, I've realised that it's a price worth paying.
The £100s or whatever can soon be earned back by the machine being in being fully operational.
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Well jasonl it's a little more complicated than a simple rotary scrubber like you have, I could make one out of an old dustbin lid and an old washing machine motor and an old pole for the handle.
I thought J used a TM now?
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Well jasonl it's a little more complicated than a simple rotary scrubber like you have, I could make one out of an old dustbin lid and an old washing machine motor and an old pole for the handle.
I have got a TM too ! Its not complex or that great either , yes it sprays hot water ,and sucks floods up well , but what a faff about !
Any decent fitter can fix them cheaper than the dealers , as for Prochem , I am still waiting for a call back despite calling 3 times , in the end I got a local pressure washer guy to sort a pressure regulator , he had them in stock , 40 quid , fitted free in 30 mins.
Also, my rotary was £700 quid new , and apart from pat testing and one new cable , has never had a penny spent on it.
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Well jasonl it's a little more complicated than a simple rotary scrubber like you have, I could make one out of an old dustbin lid and an old washing machine motor and an old pole for the handle.
I have got a TM too ! Its not complex or that great either , yes it sprays hot water ,and sucks floods up well , but what a faff about !
Any decent fitter can fix them cheaper than the dealers , as for Prochem , I am still waiting for a call back despite calling 3 times , in the end I got a local pressure washer guy to sort a pressure regulator , he had them in stock , 40 quid , fitted free in 30 mins.
Also, my rotary was £700 quid new , and apart from pat testing and one new cable , has never had a penny spent on it.
bet that bikes a bugga to peddle with the old blazer in the basket ;D ;D ;D
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;D
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Well jasonl it's a little more complicated than a simple rotary scrubber like you have, I could make one out of an old dustbin lid and an old washing machine motor and an old pole for the handle.
I have got a TM too ! Its not complex or that great either , yes it sprays hot water ,and sucks floods up well , but what a faff about !
Any decent fitter can fix them cheaper than the dealers , as for Prochem , I am still waiting for a call back despite calling 3 times , in the end I got a local pressure washer guy to sort a pressure regulator , he had them in stock , 40 quid , fitted free in 30 mins.
Also, my rotary was £700 quid new , and apart from pat testing and one new cable , has never had a penny spent on it.
bet that bikes a bugga to peddle with the old blazer in the basket ;D ;D ;D
I have a driver , get my licence back on Wednesday though.
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Martin , you are way over your head , why would you try and argue with the Chartered engineer/CEO of a leading process engineeering company
I love it when someone feels so threatened by their own lack of subject knowledge that they have to invent some world authority, who knows more about our subject matter than anyone else on earth and just so happens to conveniently be a relative to back him up. ;D ;D
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like your relative you have referred to who is a "litigation lawyer" very broad area that is .
Are you on linked in ? look him up its all genuine .
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Not a relative, he's my son and works at a large law firm in Manchester. But Iam not making grandiose statements in his name, I can fight my own corner all on my little ownsome, shame you can't, but hey ho, it keeps us entertained. ;D ;D ;D
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I am sorry , what is grandiose about repeating a simple statement .
I have spent a lot of time with my brother working on equipment(a vast improvement over what was available previously) , eventually selling the company for a nice figure .
www.scirocco-services.com
Who knows maybe truckmounts will be next !
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Whatever, Jason :P
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Whatever, Jason :P
I think Vicky Pollard's fraped you Simon.... ;D ;D ;D
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Jason has posted about his brother before and showed a link to his company about us page. So he does exist and is a CEO of an engineering company Simon.
And I hardly think a brother is a distant relative!!
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I have stood in the water treatment plant he built in Auckland looking at the petrol washer/ extractor he designed for cleaning the UV passes , far simpler than anything on the market ,at a fith of the price .
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/oliver-lawal/9/7ab/687
http://halmapr.com/news/aquionics/2010/09/10/aquionics-announces-new-president-oliver-lawal/
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It's a bit like when people go into shops and get advice on products or try them out, then go online and buy them, very annoying, but it's up to them to compete in their own unique way.
It strikes me HM are cutting their nose off to spite their face and could lose good will from people who generate thousands for them every year. If they have a specific problem with a few people taking the mickey, simply tell them to bog off!
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I just think its plain greedy, they have customers spending a good few grand on equipment and then charging those customers for asking advice about their own products ? ???
Surely if they treat their customers right then the majority will come back and spend any how, thats the logic we use when dealing with carpet cleaning customers.
Ive probably spent hours on the phone in the past with customers just giving advice, but I know many of those have spent money at a later date or recommended me so its a worthwhile investment, while ticking off your customers isnt ::)
steve
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That's a good analogy Steve.
Shaun
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It's support they are referring to, it's different to us giving advice to customers, sometimes they can be on the phone for thirty mins talking through a procedure or diagnostic.
Imagen you had an employee and he's busy doing whatever job he's doing in the workshop, and he keeps having to stop to talk on the phone for half hour or so, annoying enough but when it's to help out people who never contribute I can see why they did this.
it's only a 100 a year.
Also we should not flatter ourselfs thinking spending a few hundred quid here and
there contributes much, even if you buy a TM the profits probally swallowed up in one months payroll.
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I think they are being a bit silly.
Just put up your prices a bit HM, end of. Unless you are going to charge just those who are timestealers and buy nothing then why do it in a way that gets good customers backs up?
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got a funny feeling this idea was born out of frustration rather than careful planning.
there must be away of getting a few service vans on the road that can look after not just HM truckies but other brands and porties too, and why not even pressure washers etc.....if this fee was to fund this type of project then i wouldn't mind paying. its called adding value instead of charging for the same service we're used too.
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Perhaps a different way of looking at it would be based on annual spend, everyone who has a TM that buys from HM would be on database when they call for advice then this would be given freely.
The only problem I see is that when I come to sell my TM and say to the buyer, "HM service is second to none and if you need any advice from them it'll cost you £100 or £300 per year to get it" the 2nd hand price of my TM has just got down.
Putting the prices of parts up won't help as people will know that the part is over priced and will shop elsewhere even after advice from HM.
Dependant on profit margins which has already been documented on how much mark up can be made, I would make a HM Club, offering decent discounts not 5 or 10% but 15% or 20% it would have a greater incentive to buy from the club as well as deal of the month, this is offering better value IMO.
Shaun
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jasonl, can you ask your brother the following question please?
On an engine converted to LPG the petrol ECU only is reporting a long term fuel trim of -17%.
How do I go about correcting this please?
Have you spent 5 years at uni becoming an engineer
Jason, I completely understand. I’m only in the second year of a 7 year plan to get an engineering degree on a part time basis. Initially I thought it would quite hard, however, It's proving immensely complex and beginning to realise why mathematicians chose engineering.
I’ll get there in the end, god know how.
Pete