Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 03:42:35 pm

Title: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 03:42:35 pm
been employing for awhile but always having problems some down to me and some down to the staff, one problem i find is im they say im too kean?????

i mean i catch certain jobs not being done properly equioment being abused ect ect

two of my recent employees said "its window cleaning you have to cut corners now and then!"

this to me is just taking the pee so any way do you guys find it best getting newbies and training up???
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 02, 2011, 03:44:41 pm
thought yr were giving
goldstar on here a job ronnie
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 03:47:26 pm
gav goldstar turned up 20 min late for a work trial and then has i was waiting next door in the cafe he thought i was getting breakfast in.

i leave at certain times to avoid traffic and maximise my days and when some one comes on a work trial late with this attitude its not for me.

Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Chris Cottrell on May 02, 2011, 04:06:19 pm
I employ a so called experienced guy, he  came to me that way but thats not to say he doesn't come with problems, equipment abuse, lack of interest sometimes, poor work quality at times etc etc

we all get them, I think its all down to whats acceptable to you personally with me my guy never takes his holiday entitlement just wants to keep on at it so I dont complain too much
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 04:15:59 pm
see i cant except that so maybe im too keen, odd problem but jobs not being done and the satndards being poor are un acceptable has complainbts lead to cancellations and so on........

Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Chris Cottrell on May 02, 2011, 04:41:36 pm
Dont get me wrong its not that I let poor quality go def not I always pick him up on that and make him do it again

its the smaller things that I overlook eg making phone calls in work time, standing around next to me when I'm talking to customers instead of getting on with the job, things like that
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 04:45:35 pm
.....ahhh i have these guys working alone so i dont get on there case about being on phone ect but if i get complaints check work and its been missed/done poorely i send them back.

but it was just how they said im too keen and said about it being the norm to cut corners.....
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Wc Solutions on May 02, 2011, 05:36:57 pm
i found both works.

yes experienced person is good - no training BUT if he doesnt work to your standards its hard to make them change there ways.

and could try and take some work ...

new guy to it - needs training but will get trained to the standard you want and could be cheaper per hour/week
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Steve CM on May 02, 2011, 05:40:27 pm
alarm bells ring when

a) they are getting through the work to quick
b) not using as much water in the tanks as normal
c) people complain

the way i see it if they do their job properly you don't have to be on their case. When the job ain't being done right they need to know. As for cutting corners thats a no-no!
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: lyndy on May 02, 2011, 05:41:34 pm
Don't what the answer is,we are thinking of selling up can't be doing with the grief of employing
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: lyndy on May 02, 2011, 05:44:04 pm
Our last guy was using way to much water,maybe on the fiddle? Said he he wouldn't let us down but had 2 weeks off in 7 weeks
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Steve CM on May 02, 2011, 05:53:38 pm
trackers on the vans are a must!
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: lyndy on May 02, 2011, 05:59:16 pm
We had one,but a pain to check at the end of the day,which one do you use?
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Helen on May 02, 2011, 06:41:53 pm
been employing for awhile but always having problems some down to me and some down to the staff, one problem i find is im they say im too kean?????

You will find that the problems you cause are because you are too soft in some areas and too hard in others! It is difficult to find that fine line!

i mean i catch certain jobs not being done properly equioment being abused ect ect

Then you are quite within in your rights to "put them right"


two of my recent employees said "its window cleaning you have to cut corners now and then!"

NO, it's your business and your livelihood and your standards, if they can't meet them let them go


this to me is just taking the pee so any way do you guys find it best getting newbies and training up???
sorry can't help.....
experienced think they know it all
inexperienced, once trained up think they know it all.
Keep on in there or do what we did, get rid, build up a cream business and sell it! :)
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 06:47:58 pm
i know what your saying lyndy. about selling up

i have made mistakes in the past and im still learning to be a good employer but it doesnt seem to matter.

took them for a paid meal in works time after they had been here a month or so and said that im flexible on alot of tghings but standards is not one of them, told them were they need to improve and how there life will be easier if mine is............didnt work
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: G Griffin on May 02, 2011, 06:49:37 pm
.....ahhh i have these guys working alone so i dont get on there case about being on phone ect but if i get complaints check work and its been missed/done poorely i send them back.

but it was just how they said im too keen and said about it being the norm to cut corners.....

That`s why you`re the boss, Ronnie.
You tell them how it is........not that I employ, mind  ;D.
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Tom White on May 02, 2011, 07:04:41 pm
Setting standards is fine, but they need to be achievable.  I've had one boss in particular who used to set unachievable targets and then go mental when they weren't met.

But he was as thick as my genitals.
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 07:07:32 pm
i know mr griffin but the problem is it seems there all like that!!!

i want to be fair but it seems there always going to take the p.......

who knows were ill go from here......after me catching them out and getting rid which they were pretty keen about and no wonder iv found that a frame is missing from one van and the pole is snapped!!!!
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 07:09:57 pm
Setting standards is fine, but they need to be achievable.  I've had one boss in particular who used to set unachievable targets and then go mental when they weren't met.

But he was as thick as my genitals.

im able to achieve them and its often said by custiomers that they dont do it has well has me, missing backs and certain windows is defo achievable and to a standard were my clients are happy is too.

it has been said that the work load has been to much but then i go and work it with them and its completed in less hours there contracted too
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: GS CLEANING SERVICES UK on May 02, 2011, 07:12:51 pm
gav goldstar turned up 20 min late for a work trial and then has i was waiting next door in the cafe he thought i was getting breakfast in.

i leave at certain times to avoid traffic and maximise my days and when some one comes on a work trial late with this attitude its not for me.


[/quoter  Ronnie , i beg to differ , as you know at the time i was banned from driving so was getting the first bus in Hyde , you said meet at quater-two to ten-two , i ran from the station to your place to see your van parked outside the cafe , so i waited outside thinking you would be out any minute , still no sign , so i went in the cafe , introduced myself , then to be totally blanked while you carried on reading your paper , got in the van to be told if i wanted to impress you i should have been earlier , you would have found me to be a nice guy , hard working , honest and reliable . A FAIR DAYS WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS PAY . Dont think we started on the right foot , pity as you always seem to be crying out for good window cleaners
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Pope vader on May 02, 2011, 07:13:09 pm
no one will work as hard as you, as it isnt there business and they dont care, all they want is a wage at the end of the week
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: bobby p on May 02, 2011, 07:14:55 pm
ive a new lad starting next week,still keeping my other lad on. both p/timers.

 i had a word with original and laid down the law ,main thing now is to check and double check each window is my new rule-then theres no excuse is there
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 07:16:33 pm
gav goldstar turned up 20 min late for a work trial and then has i was waiting next door in the cafe he thought i was getting breakfast in.

i leave at certain times to avoid traffic and maximise my days and when some one comes on a work trial late with this attitude its not for me.


[/quoter  Ronnie , i beg to differ , as you know at the time i was banned from driving so was getting the first bus in Hyde , you said meet at quater-two to ten-two , i ran from the station to your place to see your van parked outside the cafe , so i waited outside thinking you would be out any minute , still no sign , so i went in the cafe , introduced myself , then to be totally blanked while you carried on reading your paper , got in the van to be told if i wanted to impress you i should have been earlier , you would have found me to be a nice guy , hard working , honest and reliable . A FAIR DAYS WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS PAY . Dont think we started on the right foot , pity as you always seem to be crying out for good window cleaners

i beg to differ to....

its good practise to call if your late which you was.

if it was me going for a work trial and they said leaving at quarter to i would be there maybe 25 2,good impressions and all that.

and that is what i said in the van, now if i ignored you like you say how did you get a brew???


Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Small but perfectley formed on May 02, 2011, 07:22:04 pm
Carry out  random spot checks and work the occasional day with them , keeps them on there toes also you could offer and quality bonus subject to no complaints and your inspections.
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: GS CLEANING SERVICES UK on May 02, 2011, 07:34:45 pm
The problem with things like missing windows is either pure laziness or the windy as got his head up his arse trying to fit all the work in that his boss as told him to do for that day . I worked for a contract cleaning firm some years ago doing all Wigan council jobs as well as a massive school in Birmingham as well as other businesses in and around Manchester , they gave me a lad around 5 years younger than me but turned out to be on weed through the day and smack at night , so i ended up doing all this myself , but alwats got round it ( just about ) and i can say honestly NEVER MISSED A WINDOW . Was promised a nice healthy bonus at end of each month which i got 3 out of 6 months . My loyalty was still there even though i would have to fight for my wages in the end . I loved the work and the challenge of doing the work cleaned on time every month but what are you supposed to do when you have to mither the boss , just to get your wage
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Johnny B on May 02, 2011, 07:36:49 pm
I used to have a lad with me, but in the end it wasn't worth all the headache that went with it.

Like you Ronnie, I set my self high standards and reach them as they are always achievable, but the sad fact seems to be nowadays that the work ethic of many is simply not there.

My lad was taking the mick with time off work due to illness (fit enough to go to the gym for 3 hours a day though), then spending the day on his Xbox, texting while I was grafting, slowing down in the afternoons when he knew he had earned enough. The list goes on.  

I warned him that if necessary, I would have to be ruthless, as I was not going to allow my business to be jeopardized in any way by anyone. I am seen as a soft touch, and he clearly thought I would not follow through with it.  

I finally let him go, then sold my excess work, and now have a more compact, more efficient
and manageable business to care for me and my family.

Happy days again.

John.

Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: GS CLEANING SERVICES UK on May 02, 2011, 07:45:26 pm
At the end of the day Ronnie i got the first bus out ..........i think you should have been a bit more civil , looked at my work , then say LOOK I THINK YOUR WERE LATE THIS MORNING ( WHICH I WASNT ) PLUS YOUR WORK IS poo ..........so i dont want you working for me

I am 40-years old , been working on windows since i was 16 ( on and off ) had my own round , worked for a contract company , i may be wrong but i dont feel i have to impress anyone but the custard .
BUT if anyone thinks im wrong please do tell me
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: H S and Son on May 02, 2011, 07:49:13 pm
So far as you (the employee) is concerned Ronnie IS the custard.

I dont agree with Ronnie all the time, and from what you are saying and from what he has said time-keeping and attitude are the two things YOU can do something about on a trial, then it is your attitude that needs to change.
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Lee Burbidge on May 02, 2011, 07:54:51 pm
i have had a run of bad times a couple of years ago when I was recruiting a new window cleaner. I got some time waisters.
I wasnt interested in those that had their own business before and I wasnt impressed by the people who said they could wc because they saw some dude do it in the street.

This one guy I did take on at that time, turned out to be brillent. So good I was asking myself 'whats tha catch?'
He had done some R&W with another company (up to 2 years experince).

I remember him dropping one of my poles and smashing the end piece (costs £80 to replace) but so that it didnt put him off (he had only been working a couple of days) I told him accidents happening and that he shouldnt worry about the cost of it ( I would replace it) so then I am working with him for another week and it dawns on me what the catch was. He had a lot of issues, family etc. some weird stuff really.......
Then he started not turning up on time and becoming unrealible. Then one day he didnt even turn up, I called him and called him. Finally he starts to communicate through text. I tell him he has let me down, I had all this work lined up and booked in...... he tells me he aint coming back because he is in Birmingham now!!? I deducted the £80 out of his final pay.

I tend not to train or start from scratch as my time is very valuable   ;D
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: GS CLEANING SERVICES UK on May 02, 2011, 07:56:03 pm
Maybe the answer to employees letting you down is to sub out your work ( under your name ) and have a contract with the subby saying if i dont get paid or if there is a complaint from a domestic or commercial custy then youdont get payed for that job . Then if the subby is NORMAL he will want to do a good job because he wants to get paid . it would work for me anyway , surely then everyone is happy
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 07:57:33 pm
goldstar we both have different opinions im not here to discuss that we could of had that convo at 710 the day you left your work trial.


but just for future reference when some one comes on a work trial it5 is show me they are the man/women for the job time keeping attiuse quality of work presentation of them selves are just a few things i try to look at.

Matt this must be a first lol
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 08:00:45 pm
Maybe the answer to employees letting you down is to sub out your work ( under your name ) and have a contract with the subby saying if i dont get paid or if there is a complaint from a domestic or commercial custy then youdont get payed for that job . Then if the subby is NORMAL he will want to do a good job because he wants to get paid . it would work for me anyway , surely then everyone is happy

My clients dont expect my work to be subbed out they like to know its someone representing my company has they know how keen i am has in most cases if sold my service to them.

i woudlnt consider this has the percentages would drop drastically and you could easily lose the control has some one else is in with your contact and knowing your prices
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: GS CLEANING SERVICES UK on May 02, 2011, 08:03:49 pm
Matt i get what your saying mate , but i will stand by what i said about being late , it is one of my pet-hates . it was just one of them things i guess ,
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: GS CLEANING SERVICES UK on May 02, 2011, 08:12:24 pm
yes i see your point  Ronnie but i meant the subbing would be between you and the subby BUT under your name..........so as far as the customer is concerned the windy works for you ( this is more for commercial work ) you say to the subby , i will give you x amount for that job , he dosnt need to know how much your getting for it .
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 08:26:42 pm
ye but he knows were abouts he is with price.

if i went down this route it would be a franchise it works better for me and there is a contract that covers both parties
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 02, 2011, 09:14:12 pm
gav goldstar turned up 20 min late for a work trial and then has i was waiting next door in the cafe he thought i was getting breakfast in.

i leave at certain times to avoid traffic and maximise my days and when some one comes on a work trial late with this attitude its not for me.



 i wudnt of been waiting no 20 mins
drives me insane wen i av to toot my horn
more than once  ;D ;D n i dont get any ones
brekkie only mine lol ;D ;D
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 09:14:47 pm
what is a fair percentage to pay an employee taking into consideration the real cost of running a vat reg business??
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 02, 2011, 09:21:21 pm
definatly depends on the employee m8
but i think 60/65 a day is plently for
most employee's  ;)
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 09:26:44 pm
percent???
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 02, 2011, 09:31:17 pm
percent dont come into it m8
ryan giggs aint on a percent of
man utds gate reciept is he????
a half descent wage for driver wc is around
the 350 a wk top line m8 ;) ;)
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: richywilts on May 02, 2011, 09:40:44 pm
id say 30-35 per cent if employee was bob on so say they do 200 quid a day on there own they would take 70 quid
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 09:47:24 pm
well i would agree gav thats over 18k a year.

and richy i would say simalar with reagrds to percentage

Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 02, 2011, 09:50:34 pm
ronnies as your finding out
good wc are hard to find
but easy to keep 18k a yr
 plus use of the van n most ov em r
happy as larry  ;) ;)
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 10:00:22 pm
last one was called larry lol

the van doesnt get kept has it is filled up at night and i already spend £100 on fuel a week!!

but i thinbk the wage is better than most cleaning companies pay.
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 02, 2011, 10:02:32 pm
young micheals looking
for work  ;) ;)
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 02, 2011, 10:06:58 pm
young micheal cant cope with running a van, its a shame he was a good worker 9/10
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: abilol on May 02, 2011, 11:46:03 pm
hi ru giveing lads enough time on jobs so they dont have to cut corners i only ask as i used to work for company and the boss used to always try and give times that you would never ever be able to do them in cheers laurie
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: lyndy on May 03, 2011, 07:32:11 am
We tell them they have to turn over at £25 an hour,which is easy to do,the last guy could only do about £160 of work with 650l of water
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: landy2 on May 03, 2011, 05:34:57 pm
to the defence of  gold star he did about 2 weeks of work with me when my other worker went in hospital for two weeks  i found him a very good worker and for time issues he was on time every day he worked with me  and for you gold star my mate is on holiday in july if you fancy a weeks work or have you got fixed up with some now
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Lee Burbidge on May 03, 2011, 05:58:45 pm
Maybe the answer to employees letting you down is to sub out your work ( under your name ) and have a contract with the subby saying if i dont get paid or if there is a complaint from a domestic or commercial custy then youdont get payed for that job . Then if the subby is NORMAL he will want to do a good job because he wants to get paid . it would work for me anyway , surely then everyone is happy

I have 3 subs at mo as well as employees....... mix it up!!!
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on May 03, 2011, 07:08:33 pm
percent dont come into it m8
ryan giggs aint on a percent of
man utds gate reciept is he????
a half descent wage for driver wc is around
the 350 a wk top line m8 ;) ;)



I agree with this you dont see McDonalds splitting the till at the end of the day.
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on May 03, 2011, 07:11:34 pm
We tell them they have to turn over at £25 an hour,which is easy to do,the last guy could only do about £160 of work with 650l of water




i could do that on 175 litres
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: H S and Son on May 03, 2011, 07:28:31 pm
Perhaps his teacher wasn't a very good teacher.
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 04, 2011, 07:43:38 pm
young micheal cant cope with running a van, its a shame he was a good worker 9/10

i hear young micheal's back
glad you two seen sense
happy days  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 04, 2011, 10:51:16 pm
nbot back but helpingme out...im sure he was happy today has he earnt £110+ for 7 hours work
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on May 04, 2011, 11:26:52 pm
tidy go on ronnie give him
a job , you know u want 2  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: ronnie paton on May 05, 2011, 10:36:13 pm
went to do a job today and the scheme manager told me how much of a bad attituide one of my old staff had and how he spoke to her......it makes me cringe how these people have no respect.

you cant leave them alone for 5 min with out jeopordising you reputation.....just glad there gone now
Title: Re: do you employ newbie or experienced guys?
Post by: Helen on May 05, 2011, 10:53:11 pm
went to do a job today and the scheme manager told me how much of a bad attituide one of my old staff had and how he spoke to her......it makes me cringe how these people have no respect.

you cant leave them alone for 5 min with out jeopordising you reputation.....just glad there gone now

Found out (after we sacked one) that he had been lying to the custies about us, saying how we bullied him into doing things he didn't want to (what work and cleans windows ::)) and that we used to dock his pay all the time ::)
She saw right through him and told him to grow up apparently.
Oh yeah we sacked him, but that was after he pranged the van twice (whilst reversing to turn round) lied about it (both times) marked worksheets as work done (when it wasn't) and finished early one day, took the van home and we caught him doing his neighbours and nearby ones, taking all the money himself. He got his sister to answer the door when we knocked and she said he wasn't there ??? So why was the van........we just sat and waited, eventually he came out  and said I'll bring the van back now, no we took the keys and drove it back ourselves........shame his car was still parked outside our house, so he had to walk 3 miles to get it. By the time he did this, his last wage packet was ready along with P45.
We found a discipline record the other day(you have to keep records when you issue warnings etc) made for some comical reading 5 years on, but at the time....... >:(