Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: M.Acorn on May 02, 2011, 12:29:56 pm
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Seeing that hot pressure washer post has got my brain ticking over ;D
Thinking along the lines of say a 60ltr recovery tank,mounted in the back of the van,same sort of principle as a hubbly bubbly pipe thing.and my steempro.
Would it not be possible to make a metal cabinet containing 3 x 3 stage vacs,connected to a tank,which has an auto pump out system,and filters etc.
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Intrested in the replys on this one ???
Paul
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Yeah I would like to see a design,and plans,just going over it in my head,and it all seems pretty straight forward.
My prochem machine looks like a mixture of readily available plumbing parts.
I am reasonably mechanically minded,as in I do all the maintenance on my machine,and built my Scirocco.
Electrical is all pretty straight forward,wish I had a workshop.
Suppose you could use a 2 way float switch,that sends power to a pump when it's triggered,for a pump out,could set that up on a delay so it stays on for a bit.
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Better still , mount the vacs high up on the walls of the van out of the way leaving room for other kit
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Get brainstorming mark mate ;)
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Yeah will give it some more thought after a few beers,tank would need to be pretty rigid,so baffle plates and strengthening would be in order,could even use an old immersion heater tank,what chemicals do we use that damages copper ?and yes Jason,the vacs could be in a separate box,connected to the tank via 2 inch tubing,I am assuming the pipe that comes out the side of a vac motor is the exhaust ? And they would need a cool air supply to keep them cool.
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What we really need here is either:
A 60- 100ltr recovery tank with 3-4 3 stage 1500w motors or a simplified truck mount system which used a small diesel engine to run both blower and generator (generator would power the Zeta machine) this would do away with relying on the customer to provide power!
Then you have a self contained unit which can sit on your van and work all day long... anyone wanna work with me on this??
Mark... forget using copper, just use a water tank as used by car valeters and window cleaners the 250ltr ones have baffles
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Why not just buy a truckmount.
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Why not just buy a truckmount.
ditto
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Why not just buy a truckmount.
John you should know by now that some people will do anything but buy a TM, I'thought I'd heard em all, mount your porty in a van, don't need heat to clean, power of a TM in a porty etc but this is a new one on me! ;D
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Unfortunately not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to afford a TM, still.. no harm in thinking of alternatives...
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Truckmounts are usually over priced and over engineered. people buy them for the same reason they buy Spray & Go from Chemspec instread of sod' met' from Mistral.
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Time you mess about fitting vac motors to a tank, a tank which will need to be airtight and baffled for strength. Then the pump side of things. All this this has to have a safe electricty supply. Surely must be simpler paying a couple of grand for a second hand truckmount.
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So.....
Fiorentini unit £500
Hot washer £1000
Small generator £500
Wiring to a RCD unit £200
Fixings / trimmings £200
Clean water tank £100 (no waste needed as auto pump out)
Solution /vac hose /wand £500
A few evenings fettling £0
£3000 plus vat for a brand new unit who would take the chance ?
Personally I would delete the generator and invest in quality extension leads, one 13 amp supply would be ample plugged into a master socket in the van .
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Fiorentini unit £500
Is that a truck mount blower unit ?
Seen ads for Bane clean stuff,don't they require a 13 amp supply too ?
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Fiorentini unit £500
Is that a truck mount blower unit ?
Seen ads for Bane clean stuff,don't they require a 13 amp supply too ?
No it is the unit Mick put the pic up of on a different thread , a TM blower is about £1000 , then you need an engine and coupling to drive it.
Home made units are not easy to make , but the ones I have seen have made a lot of business sense , people will not often post about them as they do not like being mocked or picked to pieces by the people who spent up to 10 times more on a "proper TM"
Shame really
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have one of these in my unit which i have used to suck up while pressure washing
http://www.tech-clean.co.uk/industrial_wet_dry_vacuum_cleaners.htm
it has good suction this would be better than the Fiorentini it doesn't have auto pump out but is has a huge capacity you could do a suite and 3 carpets with it then just empty it.
but really any electric vacuum unit is not ideal.... they just can't get enough power out of an electric plug... you need an engine & blower
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the solution tank is 35 litres, so you will have to top the machine up, so do you really need a large recovery tank ? If you got to go to the van to top the machine up you empty the recovery tank at the same time.
The idea is a good one...you need to try and keep it all 12volts if posible then you can run another battery. weather you will get the power required from 12v ??
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Paul , the hot washer would suck water from an onboard tank of any practical size that you can fit in the van , 2-400 litres.
The vac unit would have an auto pump out negating the need to have a waste tank.
When I build one I will start off electric and then add an engine/blower later, once the system is proven.
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Jason you have too much time on your hands.. ;D ;D
With the Prowler available for roughly £6000 it would prove diffuclt to keep under that to build your own.
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I think it would be difficult to spend OVER 4 grand on a diesel powered version of this using new components.
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Build in your time...as while your building..your not earning.. ???
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The technical side of it does not bother me,I am pretty handy with a welder,have a couple of friends who are engineers and have done stuff for my car mates rates,also know a guy who built a scram jet in his garage,using his own calculations,he now works as chief technical engineer at Cambridge uni,as they hunted him down,he used to wash pots for me when I was a head chef,about 8 years ago.
Think if I were to do it it would be a case of getting a truck mount blower unit,and coupling,assume with a coupling it would be direct drive,could use a vw drive shaft and hub,that's it,once I get the new engine in the roc,I can use the old one to run the blower,think 150 bhp may be a bit overkill though
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Sorry missed the original thread but could someone give me a link to the " fiorentini unit " tried googling but couldn't find anything it might be something i've been looking for.
Thanks
Eddie
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Hi
Just found the thread, if you are looking for a vac side to this type of system why not consider the Rotovac CFX powerpod or Mytee Air Hog don't know how to do the link thing basically these are small recovery tanks with vacs and an auto pump out but they are built by carpet cleaniung machine manufacturers for carpet cleaners.
Regards
Eddie
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The Rotovac has only 2 vacs if you are running from the van you need a 3rd vac, image a 3 vac cfr machine you'd get the heat from the motors through the perfect heat system with great water retention to clean a full house without refilling.
Shaun
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Can the Prowler be used for pressure washing too?.
I was thinking that someone using a Scorpion with the auxiliary waste tank fitted or better still using the pump out waste tank lid and with a Zeta supplying continuous hot water could work all day without having to stop.
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In theory yes but you would be using your vac blower at the same time and putting needless hours on it.
Shaun
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Thanks Shaun. So the pump and the blower cannot work independently of each other.
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No
Shaun
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Just found this,does not give specs,and is in the U.S.A http://sunbrite.stores.yahoo.net/30garetaw.html
Have just bought some C.A.D Software,so I can get designing something,mate is an engineer,and has access to mills,lathes etc etc so getting a prototype knocked up shouldn't be an issue
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And the prowler is nearly £8000 with
"the dreaded"
John
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Will be designing something with a manifold,that 3 motors bolt onto,which will just connect up too the tank and some sort of ball float type cut off,like the Prochem machine.with an auto pump out,and auto motor off with another float switch,if the pump out fails
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Be good to see some picies mate when its done
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Don't hold your breath Clinton,only got the software today,so it will take me a while to get anything mocked up,just had a chat with another engineer friend,he builds jet engines in his garage,so this will be a no brainer for him
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Mark,
If you were going to do this, what are your goals? What do you hope to achieve? Make a list.....
I guarantee you that each thing on your list is either already covered or impractical to achieve.
Why sod around for endless hours, wasting endless pounds of your hard earned money? You can buy a custom-designed piece of machinery built by people who know what they're doing, can give you all the technical support you need and have many identical machines out there in the market place proving their reliability.
Take a step back and have a real good think before launching into something like this!
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Mark,
If you were going to do this, what are your goals? What do you hope to achieve? Make a list.....
I guarantee you that each thing on your list is either already covered or impractical to achieve.
Why sod around for endless hours, wasting endless pounds of your hard earned money? You can buy a custom-designed piece of machinery built by people who know what they're doing, can give you all the technical support you need and have many identical machines out there in the market place proving their reliability.
Take a step back and have a real good think before launching into something like this!
Alll these fantastic existing machines , started with a man in his garage , go for it Mark , innovation is the way to progress.
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As Jim says, 'Why sod around for endless hours, wasting endless pounds of your hard earned money? You can buy a custom-designed piece of machinery built by people who know what they're doing, can give you all the technical support you need and have many identical machines out there in the market place proving their reliability.'
Enough said ;)
Simon
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As an aside, I wonder what kind of performance running one of these via a waste tank would produce.
http://www.dri-eaz.uk.com/Content_007.aspx?wpid=1467
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I thought you ran a home made trucky Jim ?
Like Jason says,if everyone had that attitude then we would all be in the dark ages,what have I got to lose.
Just ordered one Lamb motor 1500 watts,£200 for 2 more,that will give me 4.5 thou watts of suction,and if I decide to bin the idea,I have 3 spare motors for my Prochem.
£200 ish for a tank of some sort,which can be used as a solution tank if it goes t1ts up.
200ft of 2 inch hose,well I can get an adapter and use that on my machine.
Few switches,ball float ,filter and manifold,with some metalwork thrown in,which will be done mates rates,could knock this out for under a grand,then another grand for the pressure washer.
Will be a scrap heap challenge special...
Just found this,which makes things easier,for making up a manifold,as all the dimensions are there http://www.alltemp.ca/vacuum/pdf/11651313.pdf..
Just need the formula to work out tank size,not sure what effect that will have on recovery etc,had to ask a mate about that
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Getting some more input off the car forums of all places !!Plenty of clever engineers on there,that know a lot about airflow and stuff
My initial thoughts on the level switch are
The old style ball in cage assembly is normally situated inside the filter housing. This is so that it can get an accurate reading of said level. The filter cartridge smooths out turbulence and also converts suspended/atomised molecules of liquid back into the main body of liquid. The most accurate level reading will be within the cartridge assembly for that reason. Outside it will be more of a whirlwind. The entry design will have a lot to do with turbulence within the collector drum. I think the best shape would be a fatter band around the perimeter of tank where the high speed fluid enters. Id put the entry point hitting the fat band tangentially so that the incoming liquid spins around this band for almost a full turn of drum interior. Id blank off this ridge internally with a plate, sealed to the area above and below ridge, but open at the end just approaching entry point, and diffused downwards. This will setup your incoming 'stuff' in the way that you want it, and it will give it time to both order itself, and de-atomise. Its incoming swirl will mean it will also conform to the walls for as long as possible, and drop down to the bottom as velocity decreases. This will mean you will have a little as possible contacting the filter direct on.
Back to the new style float switch. As mentioned, this will have to be inside the filter cartridge for effective non turbulent measuring. This may lead to awkward servicing, or checking though. Perhaps if you were to place sensor in say a 3'' tube, and be able to insert it from the outside/top would be a better idea. The sensor could then be outside the filter housing and the pipe would stop turbulence locally and give you a more accurate reading.
You then have to decide the failure mode. This is a big one. If switch fails what happens? Does the motor assm suck in the water and possibly electrify the entire contents? Will the fan be in a separate compartment and be driven through watertight housings? Will the drum be metal or plastic?
Another thought depending hose length would be a shut off delay once level is reached. This would make sure full pipe line is evacuated of all debris/fluid before shutdown.
Whats wrong with the old style ball shut off? You could wire in a thermal fuse of some sort once the ball gets trapped and the fan loads up a little, if the exhaust air also cools motor you will see a dramatic temperature rise in the motor compartment almost instantly. The overload would need to be stronger than a 75% pipe end blockage of course. Hmmmmmm lots to think about......hows the drawing coming along?
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Mark way dont you just buy a second hand scorpion now the jags on the scene they be a few for sale
2 leads to the scorp and a gen for the pressure washer with 2 tanks autofill and dump or only 2k for a jag if your quick.
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Haven't read all so im not sure what you plan exactly .... but coincidently i'v just ordered 4 cheapo vacs and some folded aluminium ... plan is 4 vacs parallel to large van mount recovery tank ( or three and an active spare ) or the option of 2 on 2 series .
and a pump 500psi or so ...and feed tank , all for about a grand i'd say ...
I'm no engineer but its worth a shot :D
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You need to be very careful with the size of your recovery tank. Anything much bigger than you get on a porty and the vacs will be using all their power just to pre-vacuum the tank.
Personally I'd be spending the effort on marketing my business which is the crux of the matter and then just buy whatever kit I needed to do the work.
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You need to be very careful with the size of your recovery tank. Anything much bigger than you get on a porty and the vacs will be using all their power just to pre-vacuum the tank.
Personally I'd be spending the effort on marketing my business which is the crux of the matter and then just buy whatever kit I needed to do the work.
What John says about putting the time and money into marketing is right. With all the extra money you make you can go out and buy the best kit for the job and without the hassle.
Unfortunately the mentality of many carpet cleaners for some reason is spend a load of time faffing about trying to save a few quid instead of making a lot of money.
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Just got back from the Cambs eve news and crier Ad power meeting !! Ok they are doing a discount at the moment First reduced price package = 21 grand,next package 14 grand ,nearly chocked on my coffee.
Get what your saying guy's but the time I have spent thinking about this has been free time,it's pretty quiet work wise,so yeah should be looking at marketing,my next marketing spend is getting my van sign written,then continue with my web site update.
I like tinkering with stuff,and building stuff,and I am reasonably mechanically and electrically astute ,know loads of engineers ,have access to machinery,and all the stainless tube and sheet I want,might have to turn my welder into a tig instead of a mig
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Best of luck with your project Mark , looks like i'm committed to mine also .
"You need to be very careful with the size of your recovery tank. Anything much bigger than you get on a porty and the vacs will be using all their power just to pre-vacuum the tank."
Yes , i mean just big enough not to have to empty during an average job or two , i have used this setup before and i like the convenience . The scorpion axillary tank works well at 40 gallon (50 inc porty tank ) . id say even this 27 gallon tank would be fine ... would have to inquire about its strength , not baffled although i cant really see it collapsing either .
http://www.tanks-direct.co.uk/flat_water_tanks/125_ltr_flat_water_tank
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That tanks not suitable. Its the ones we sell and I've tried using them as waste tanks but they aren't strong enough. You really need something with cross bracing to prevent the sides pulling in.
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Like everyone else is saying Mark, if your going to all that trouble just buy a truckmount. Plenty of power and heat from a Prowler and only new £7000. Which is about £2,500 more than a top end porty! I'd get one but i seem to always do jobs where parking near by is an issue.
You've already got a van suitable for it.
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There is a fantastic TM for sale in Andover with new heat exchanger and a spare, in a good quality van too, save yourself the time and effort and buy this one......
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The Prowler is over 8 grand ! On the site,I must look at it once or twice a week
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Ive just built a new pressure washer, it has a 18hp kohler engine belt driven to a Cat 660 pump 3000psi @ 10gl/min
here is a links to just the pump
http://www.bphpumps.com/11964/cat-660-15fr-ceramic-plunger-pump-.asp
I could have saved my time, bought it from a manufacturer and spent my time marketing ;) ;)
but a machine with the same spec would cost at least £2500 it cost me less than £800 and it is built with all S/S fitting and duel uploaders. the belt is rated 4 times higher than needed ( so will never fail) I have another 4 of these pumps which I can change in 10mins, I could change the engine in an hour.
this is why anyone who can do it should consider building them selves,
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That tanks not suitable. Its the ones we sell and I've tried using them as waste tanks but they aren't strong enough. You really need something with cross bracing to prevent the sides pulling in.
Appreciate that reply John , saved me some hassle . Do you have links to any small suitable ? The scorpion aux isn't baffled but the shape must add strength , if it comes to it i will get an aluminium tank built .
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if it comes to it i will get an aluminium tank built .
Try a company called Alloy racing fabrications,he built me a fuel tank for my scirocco,to fit in the spare wheel well,cost me £180 though,has baffles in it too
Here,,,,,,,,,,http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/
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if it comes to it i will get an aluminium tank built .
Try a company called Alloy racing fabrications,he built me a fuel tank for my scirocco,to fit in the spare wheel well,cost me £180 though,has baffles in it too
Here,,,,,,,,,,http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/
Thanks for that , looks like a good fabricator , Im in Dublin though but plenty available here . I see a 45 gallon baffled plastic on the tanks direct site and a boat waste tank that might suit .
spent ages looking for a bulkhead to 2" fitting ...and the're on that site .. so another problem solved .
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You need a round tank with a domed lid to make it the easiest/strongest option.
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Ive just built a new pressure washer, it has a 18hp kohler engine belt driven to a Cat 660 pump 3000psi @ 10gl/min
here is a links to just the pump
http://www.bphpumps.com/11964/cat-660-15fr-ceramic-plunger-pump-.asp
I could have saved my time, bought it from a manufacturer and spent my time marketing ;) ;)
but a machine with the same spec would cost at least £2500 it cost me less than £800 and it is built with all S/S fitting and duel uploaders. the belt is rated 4 times higher than needed ( so will never fail) I have another 4 of these pumps which I can change in 10mins, I could change the engine in an hour.
this is why anyone who can do it should consider building them selves,
The price on the pump in your link is nearly 3 grand, how did you build the whole set up for £800
Also, would you be interested in selling one of those extra pumps youve got?
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You need a round tank with a domed lid to make it the easiest/strongest option.
Round might be strong , but flat might be easier to fit the various inlet/outlet fitting to .
I like this one , i could easily get my hand in there to fit the waste gate , and in out connections
http://www.tanks-direct.co.uk/200_litre_water_tanks/210_litre_water_tank_-_flat
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Matt.
to be honest i can't say where I bought the pumps from but i got 5 for £350
but if you know where to look you can find bargains :D
http://www.anchorpumps.com/pump-shop/clearance-corner/cat-650-776-brass-15-frame-plunger-pump-new
this pump is the bargain of the century
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Mike,
Mind if i send you an email some time? im in the market for replacing my pump from my vanmount pressure washer, but its the first real time ive had to deal with pumps/belt etc..
Cheers,
matt
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yep.... email me or phone anytime
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Thinking more along the lines of a portable recovery tank now,due to an e mail I received,which I deleted instead of moving from my spam folder...
Would running the vacs on their side have any detrimental effect on their longevity and function ?
Thinking keep it small,so 20ltr tank,still 3 vac motors,but mounted on their sides.
Would also run the pump out from start,but still have a cut out switch,if the pump fails or get.s blocked.
We have a chancellery place just down the road,so have access to lot's of different pumps and fittings,filters and float switches.
Waiting for more ram to turn up,as my pc started having a fit when I opened the C.A.D software