Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Russ Chadd on May 01, 2011, 07:53:38 pm
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Hello!
First of all i apologise for this shameless plug!
However I feel i have to share some useful info with the forum which could possibly benefit many of you people who are using portable extractors rather than truck mounts.
I am based down in Surrey and i sell these great little hot water pressure washers to Valeters and also to carpet cleaning businesses.
The machine can be supplied with an adapter to convert the standard M22 hose fitting so a regular male quick connect can be attached.
I have been cleaning carpets for many years using portable extraction machines and one of the main disadvantages is that you either have to rely on your customers to provide the hot water or use an in line heater which needs a separate electrical circuit and lets face it... they "warm the water" and eat electricity!
I use a Prochem steempro Powerplus for extraction and my hot water and pressure is provided by the Zeta, 300psi at 90 deg C (the pressure can be increased to 1200psi for pressure cleaning)
Using this machine will also allow the use of a Rotovac scrubber or a hard floor high pressure cleaner!
Unlike many pressure washers, the Zeta has a bypass pump which is similar to what we all have in our extractor machines, the Zeta can simply be left running out side the propery or if you have enough solution hose.. in the back of your van.
Water temperature will reach up to 90deg C from switch on in less than 60 seconds!, in low pressure mode (300-500psi) the machine will draw less electrical power than an in line heater!
Tried and tested... this is by far the most efficient way of getting boiling hot water to your wands and hand tools!
Please get in touch for further details!
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.....moved from the for sale section.....
Russ sorry mate but you need to contact the admin to be able to commercially sell to our members.
but what you are suggesting is a great idea so rather than delete it i am moving it to the carpet cleaners section to open it up to discussion,
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Thanks Mike really appreciate that my friend!
Russ
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i've never understood why more carpet cleaners don't use this system like you say inline heater get the water warm at best but a diesel burner will give ample heat.
how do you connect it to your powerplus are do you connect the water straight from a tap?
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Basically you run the two machines totally separate, i always have the Zeta machine outside in the back of the van with an extra long solution hose which runs inside the house to my wand.
I set the pressure to about 350psi.. this gives me enough pressure and the temperature is about 70 - 90 Deg C
The powerplus extractor is there simply to extract the dirty water, if i am woking in a block of flats then i still have to rely on my heat and run if i cant run enough solution line outside!
I am working on chemical injection at the moment so either extraction or rinse additives can be added.
Water flow is approx 4.5 lt min so i get away with using my on board water tank, or i use mains water if i can.
Hope this helps
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So you don't use the pump on the extraction machine at all?
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Not unless im using just the extractor on its own... my steempro only provides me with about 100psi, so it kind of ruled out the Rotovac machine... until i added the Zeta and now its like having truck mount pressure and heat!
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Now all you need is a blower attached to a small diesel engine and you will have a better -AS IN CHEAPER , EASIER TO USE AND SIMPLER- TM than anything on the market
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And a further question Russ, is this pressure washer totally electric or does it have a petrol or diesel system for heating the water and driving the pump.
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this is a picture i attached on another topic but it would perfect to use for extraction with this system, as it has auto-pump out, you could work non stop
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Hey Mike that looks interesting... any spec on it at all?
Here is a vid link i made a while back to demonstrate how effective the Zeta was in cleaning a really dirty carpet in my garage... just pre sprayed it with some cheap pre spray and brushed..... and yes i know i never dry vacuum'd it first!!
Clean hot water rince
http://http://youtu.be/92Ez4e5TeDM
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Often wondered why I don't use a set up like this,what sort of life expectancy does the pump have in one of those machines ?
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Hey Mark
This pressure washer has been designed for light commercial use, so i would say 4 hours continues use if i were to take a guess!
My demo machine has been fine, as long as you look after the machine in terms of servicing... make sure the water strainer is clear, fuel filter replaced once a year, pump oil topped up and of course de scaling the machine on a regular basis.
When you add up the cost of an inline heat exchanger... average price £450 +VAT, then a 400psi pump and fitting...
£500.00 that's a grand... and even then the best inline heaters are never going to provide you with continues hot water as they are constantly having to heat the flowing water.
This method is the most efficient, cost effective way of adding high pressure and hot water to your portable extraction setup.
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What is the lowest psi this machine will safely work at, for example can it be turned down to around 150-200 psi which is more than adequate for most upholstery jobs. Also I would like to know if 4.5 liters per minute is the minimum flow rate or can this be reduced further as one reduces the psi. If using this set up with an average extraction machine without automatic empying would you not have to stop very often to empty your machine.
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The way I read it flow stops when you stop pressing the trigger so water sage would not be too bad
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Yes, I suppose so Jason. It is difficult to get enough info on this machine as their web site does not tell you very much. I guess the only way is to see the actual machine in action.
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Ok to answer a few questions:
Fintan :
the lowest pressure the machine will operate at WITH heat is about 350 psi using a wand with two 0.3 jets.
You have to remember that the machine has a flow switch which turns the fuel solenoid on when it senses adequate water flow.
If you want pressure of up to 200psi then i would suggest replacing the internal pump in your extractor with a 200psi model), also i have to say that by emptying the extractor of dirty water, you can see roughly how much water you have used.
I have a Steempro plus and i just empty every so often, to be honest its not a pain.
Remember that Prochem did sell a prosteem plus with a 500psi internal pump with similar flow.
This machine gives you:
A 90 Deg C of water in 90 seconds of COLD startup (uses approx 5 lts of water to reach max temp from cold!!)
B Between 350 and 1500 psi of water pressure
C Ability to attach a garden hose or water tank
D The option of using with a Rotovac... i have heard that Rotovac machines like pressure of at least 400psi and heat
E The option of hard floor cleaning (up to 1500psi 8.5 lts per min)
F Will run from the same circuit as your twin motor extractor, (in low pressure mode)
G the Pump is a by pass pump, motor continues to run even when the trigger is not pressed (just like an extractor pump)
H Can easily be wheeled to the customers front door and will operate outside with a long solution hose.
Any further questions please ask
Russ
P.S What info is missing from the website?
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Hi and could you send me your contact info to pmoon2005@yahoo.com thanks Paul.
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this is a picture i attached on another topic but it would perfect to use for extraction with this system, as it has auto-pump out, you could work non stop
I saw details of an auto pump out system on the other forum fitted to a scorpion, not sure if it can be fitted to other machines, but it consisted of a pump fitted into the recovery tank and attached to a hose connector on the outside, then simply attach a garden hose to the hose connector for auto pump out, bit like the Prowler I believe.
Quite expensive for what it is but a bit more convenient if you wanted to go down that route I would have thought.
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Thanks for the reply Russ. As I use a Scorpion with a 500 psi pump pressure is not an issue. What interested me was the fact that I was thinking about buying a new in line heater but as you say they have their limitations and the most efficient ones would cost around half the price of your pressure washer anyway.
I used to do pressure washing years ago with a cold washer and just had an idea that I might do some pressure washing again for some of my better clients as I am asked about it from time to time.
I saw this machine as filling a number of needs, first as a hot pressure washer naturally, secondly as a source of continuous hot water and thirdly the equivelant of having an extra or spare pump on board. A new in line heater and spare pump would cost about the same as your machine but without the added advantage of being able to pressure wash if necessary.
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Hey Fintan
I have one left at the moment, the factory only make to order so its gonna be about 6 weeks until i get more stock.
You are welcome to my last machine best email me russchadd@talktalk.net
Cheers
Russ
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Question I have to ask here is:
while an inline heater is possibly less effective heat wise it is fed from your tank, where as this heater needs to be either connected to a mains tap which would mean carrying various tap fittings depending on your clients water tap,a mains tap which means you need to charge your client for your water consumption,or carry a large water container in your van to supply this.
While an inline heater is costly on the electricity this is brunted by the client and not yourself.
this heater needs diesel of which you'd need the client to brunt that cost.
So is it cost effective in reality?
I'd be interested to hear how it becomes cost effective.
Regards Marc
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if costing £1 a job in diesel is making it not 'cost effective' then your are right.
cleaning with hot water is quicker so this shortens the job so you use less of everything, this will make it cost effective.
i would guess this machine would come into its own when used for hard surface cleaning, fitted to a spinner tool it becomes a great tile cleaner
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Im not for one moment suggesting that you sell your in line heaters and replace with the Zeta, in line heaters still have their roll in heating water especially if you are working in lets say on the 5 th floor of a block of flats and the landlord has turned off the hot water tank!
Where the Zeta comes into its own is when you are working in lets say a Public house where the carpets are really filthy and you have access to a water supply like a hose pipe, or if you like a water tank on your van.
Remember when cleaning at 400psi the flow rate is less than 5 ltrs per min so you dont have to carry a huge supply of water for an average size job.
The machine also runs on Bio diesel, i can purchase bio diesel for less than 65p per litre so its very cheap to run! and your eco aware customers will love you!!
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Maybe I'm missing something but could you not have an adapted hose, or change the fitting, and use the machine solution tank as a supply? It's sitting right there. Change inlet on the machine or simply put a hozelock on end and a QC to suit the extractor. You could even run the pump if supply flow is an issue. I think it would work and has peaked my interest further :) It's a solution to keeping mobile and a chore most portable users do anyway and negates the need for a tank.
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Hi Simon, i see where you are coming from mate, so basically output from your extractor's solution quick connect into the pressure washer and then output from the pressure washer to the wand... why?
The extractor would still need to be topped up manually which defeats the object, also the extractor would probably not be able to supply enough flow to the pressure washer for it to work correctly.
Just use your extractor to extract the dirty water... use the pressure washer to supply heated water at 400psi +
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Do you think this would work as a recovery unit ebay item 130470373250
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"Hi Simon, i see where you are coming from mate, so basically output from your extractor's solution quick connect into the pressure washer and then output from the pressure washer to the wand... why?"
Russ,
It was in response to Marc's comments about tap fittments and or having a tank in the van. I agree topping up the solution tank is an issue but given you will have to empty the extractor at some point, unless you have a pump out system like Mike suggested, it's something us Porty users do any way. But your point is well made.
"The extractor would still need to be topped up manually which defeats the object, also the extractor would probably not be able to supply enough flow to the pressure washer for it to work correctly."
Would not the extractor be under pressure constantly feeding the pressure washer? If the through flow is an issue how would a tank in the van keep up? Most tripple and some twin vacs have 500psi+ pumps, would that not work?
If I was to go this route I would probably use the method you suggest I was really looking for alternatives to promote the discussion further, like with a cold supply one might like to add a chemical rinse easy with a tank but unless there is an injection system on the washer it's more difficult. I don't have nor have never used a TM or water temps above 60/70 degrees, and normally I rely on 'tap hot' but I have been considering an inline for sometime and your system is more appealing because as Fintan noted the pressure washer offers more flexibility as a stand alone unit. You have developed an interesting idea that works and have captured a lot of interest, I hope my questions and comments are seen as interest rather than anything else. I enjoy topics that get the brain working and some of the other suggestions have been excellent.
Simon
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The chemical addition is what I am mulling over,I always use fib and fab rinse and odour fresh,how would that be added at the correct dosage ?
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Just add these chemicals using a pump sprayer and rince with fresh water... Works fine.
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Mark russ is right and just spray and go mate as you normally do with the chemical
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So you mean after it's been extracted,just mist over with fib and fab and od fresh ?
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Can do Mark or spray then rince :)
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Does anyone know what is the difference between the Zeta and the Alberti Microjet 120.?
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Hi Fintan
Well apart from being built by different manufacturers i really couldn't comment on the Alderti machine, the design and performance is similar to the Zeta.
I have visited the Idromatic factory in Italy and saw the production line where the Zeta was being made, I do know the Idromatic do not make this machine for any one else.
I can only comment on my own experience with the Zeta, in the past i have supplied these machines to car valeters and small garages who offer service washers and engine steam cleaning . Its a good machine and if used correctly will give many years of trouble free use.
Anyone in the Aldershot area want to see the machine in action please get in touch and i would be happy to demonstrate
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I use an alltec advance with the rotovac but the pump seems to be gone on the advance. When I fiil up the solution tank and start using the wands it leaks all over the place. I now have to use 2 sprayers one with the pre spray and one with hot pure water with a little odour fresh. Then just use the advance for what it is. An over priced wet vac ( just kidding its super :) ) .
Could I just use your machine for 90 degree water and hook up all of my wands to it and then still use the Advance the way I am now? Basically 2 machines in the back of the rig with one vac hose connected to the Advance and the other solution hose connected to your Zeta machine? Is that it?
That sounds fantabulous man!!!
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Hi Neil
Shame you have a problem with your machine, might be worth getting the pump looked at, but to answer your question.. yes you would run two separate machines :
Your Advance machine does all the extracting and the Zeta does all the heating and pumping of the water, and if you are using a Rotovac i would imagine much better results when hooked up to the zeta.
Are you local to me? if so we should meet up and try your Rotovac out with the zeta!!
Shot another video today which shows the machine in detail, will send a link in a few hours as its still being uploaded to Youtube.
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Someone told me that the Alberti Microjet was the replacement for the Zeta but as you point out they are made by different manufacturers so this cannot be right. Don't know where he got that mis information from.
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Well i was speaking to my friend only last week at the Idromatic factory and they have no plans to replace the Zeta with any other model, it has been in production now for about 15 years and the design has not changed.I think that says alot about keeping the design simple!!
The Microjet looks similar, however i don't see anyone distributing them here in the UK?
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Hi Neil
Shame you have a problem with your machine, might be worth getting the pump looked at, but to answer your question.. yes you would run two separate machines :
Your Advance machine does all the extracting and the Zeta does all the heating and pumping of the water, and if you are using a Rotovac i would imagine much better results when hooked up to the zeta.
Are you local to me? if so we should meet up and try your Rotovac out with the zeta!!
Shot another video today which shows the machine in detail, will send a link in a few hours as its still being uploaded to Youtube.
No, I'm in Dublin. Can you ship that far, or are you out of stock, I read something about only having one left or something? I have been looking a hot boxes as the heat from the advance isn't great. Its boiling away in the solution tank but then it gets lost at the business end coming out of the upholstery tool. I can't understand it, its not even possible but it always only come out tepid unless you bleed it back into the solution tank for 3 or 4 minutes every time you want to use it!
I'm just doing micro sponge dry fusion c/c now as its cheaper for the clients. I always use the counter rotator to agitate the pre sprays too, then steam that to get it good and hot, and then extract after letting it dwell. But to combine your piece of kit with the heat along with the twin vac extraction of the Advance combined with the scrubbing power of the rotovac and the dwell time of the cleaner/ degreaser. Man! Now thats paradise.
Can you ship one of those to Ireland? I'm just concentrating on building a window cleaning round at the mo, I got out of the commercial and just do residential, I'm WFP - ionics. I'm gonna look at your Zeta more closely but its brilliant from what Iv seen so far. Is it true that some of the newer chemicals, the micro splitters and stuff are designed to work better at lower temps, say 60 - 65 degrees. Anyone know?
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Hi Neil! just sent you an email!
Cheers
Russ :)