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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 10:16:56 am

Title: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 10:16:56 am
Alrite guys as the title says im on the dole but due to start up my self ive got everything ready i.e trad tools ladder flyers etc etc. the thing is i cant gaurentee my monthly income yet and i dont want to jump in head first then find my self not being able to cover my bills every month let alone feed my family does any 1 no if i can claim any benefits until i get a decent regular income ive been stewing over this for the last wk im choking to get out there and earn a honest LEGAL income if any of you have been in the same situation recently PLEASE let me know i wanna get out there but wanna do it right
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Tom White on March 26, 2011, 10:28:31 am
It might be worth having a good google round some government business advice websites and have a chat with your local job centre.  The more information you get regarding benefits and business grants, the better.

Hopefully someone will be along with some better advice shortly.

Oh, I found a weekend security job when I first became a window cleaner.  The money was naff, but every little helped, and it was non-physical and meant I could concentrate week days on window cleaning.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 10:35:31 am
cheers tosh i was in the j.c the other day when i signed and the bird in there didnt have a clue just told me to talk to the employment provider im under which im goin to see on thursday ive also got an appointment with c.a.b monday morning thought i would ask on here if any 1s recently been in the same position as the pen pushers dont seem to know there arse from there elbow  :D getting any kind of work around here is a nitemare there is nothing at all unless youve got the relevent qualifacations/tickets
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: gto on March 26, 2011, 10:39:19 am
you can work up to 15hours a week before having to sign off, not sure how much though.

you tell them how much you earned and they take it off of your money.

but if your lucky enough to get it (i didn't) you can get £50 a week for 16 weeks to start your own business.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Tom White on March 26, 2011, 10:43:22 am
This is a English site, but it covers benefits for the self employed and may be of some help.

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/benefitssself
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: H S and Son on March 26, 2011, 10:52:59 am
The job-centre can help you out. If you're anxious about talking to them about it just go in a speak to them as if you are thinking about starting part-time window-cleanign, not that you are currently doing that. Im sure it is still possible to claim certain benefits whilst working less than 16 hours or so a week.

Good for you, well done.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 11:22:00 am
cheers lads info greatfully received its doin my head in cause i know i could go out canvessing and probably get a few jobs but then that would mean im on the fiddle which i dont wanna do cause i dont wanna be just another jack the lad w/c i want to do it all legal and try to make a good business out of it for my kids so they dont have to see me and the mrs struggling to put grub on the table like our parent/s did as for the j.c i dont think theyve got a clue the bird that signed me didnt she went off to ask an advisor he/she didnt either they said to me go and see the employment provider your with in my case its a company called the wise group but i cant get an app til thursday so ive made an app with c.a.b on monday which should hopefully put me in the picture like ive already said im am CHOKING to get out there especially with the gd weather weve bn having tell u 1 thing tho my windows have never been so clean lol
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: woody1 on March 26, 2011, 11:32:37 am
if your on the dole you can stay getting the benifits as long as you declare to them wht your making when you start making more than dole money you have to come off it and claim working tax credit and housing benifit
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: bumper on March 26, 2011, 12:36:42 pm
you have to work 32 hours a week or over to claim working tax credit if you earn under 4000 like me you dornt pa NI or TAX ;D
Pus dole should give you something if just starting out
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Bay View WCS on March 26, 2011, 01:20:46 pm
Alrite guys as the title says im on the dole but due to start up my self ive got everything ready i.e trad tools ladder flyers etc etc. the thing is i cant gaurentee my monthly income yet and i dont want to jump in head first then find my self not being able to cover my bills every month let alone feed my family does any 1 no if i can claim any benefits until i get a decent regular income ive been stewing over this for the last wk im choking to get out there and earn a honest LEGAL income if any of you have been in the same situation recently PLEASE let me know i wanna get out there but wanna do it right

Hey

I have recently done this.  I claimed Self-Employment Credit through the jobcentre where they will pay you £50.00 per week for 16 weeks.  You need to meet certain criteria but you should be ok.  They will arrange for you to call in after 6 and 12 weeks to make sure you are still doing what you said you would.

Have a look here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Jobseekers/LookingForWork/DG_173931

...but you will have to get a move on as it is about to change at the end of March- not sure if it will be a change for the better (knowing the govt. it won't be!) so I would recommend getting in the Jobcentre pretty sharpish and ask them for more info.

Also be a bit careful as those in the jobcentre sometimes don't know what they are doing/talking about.  When I went to sign on once I asked the person about the SE Credit and they hadn't even heard of it!  She then asked a 'colleague' who had heard about it but they gave me a load of wrong info- in fact, I knew more than they did and had to put them right on a few things- worrying really!  Anyway, I found the SE Credit to be a real help while just starting out- it helped to cover the bills in the first few weeks.

Good luck

Tom
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 02:12:22 pm
thanks guys gonna go bk to the j.c monday once ive had my c.a.b appointment im gonna go tot he local business gateway aswel they seem to no the ins and outs from wot i can gather that se credit is up on the 31st so i mite still be able to get an application in to that i will let you know how i get on monday nite thanks again guys youve sort of rested my head
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: RO-Sheen on March 26, 2011, 04:48:57 pm
Good for you mate. You have the right attitude to run a business and in our line of work honesty and trust go along way with our customers. Im sure you will do really well!
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 26, 2011, 05:36:22 pm
Alrite guys as the title says im on the dole but due to start up my self ive got everything ready i.e trad tools ladder flyers etc etc. the thing is i cant gaurentee my monthly income yet and i dont want to jump in head first then find my self not being able to cover my bills every month let alone feed my family does any 1 no if i can claim any benefits until i get a decent regular income ive been stewing over this for the last wk im choking to get out there and earn a honest LEGAL income if any of you have been in the same situation recently PLEASE let me know i wanna get out there but wanna do it right

I know the dilemma well from when I started up 20 years ago.
I'm sure many rules have changed in that time but I did swing it - legally.  However, the problem is not the dole money (non means tested) as you can generally claim that so long as your income stays below a certain amount and making sure you earn all that in a single day.  The problem tends to lie with housing benefit and income support.  As I recall it the state itself was the biggest obstruction.  This was because each benefit had its start of the week on different days of the week.  As benefits tend to be assessed on a weekly basis, this makes it very difficult to honestly declare your income and retain enough to scrape by on (bearing in mind that you can deduct expenses too).
I wouldn't normally say this but I feel that if someone genuinely wants to free themself from benefits, they are better off being economical with the truth for a few weeks/months until they are earning enough to get by.  This is because if there is any type of enterprise allowance on offer (to ease the transition), you usually only get it if you have been out of work for quite a while.
While I normally wouldn't have the time of day for a long term cheat, I don't have any real issue about someone just taking a bit for a few weeks while they're sorting things out.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 26, 2011, 05:45:07 pm
cheers lads info greatfully received its doin my head in cause i know i could go out canvessing and probably get a few jobs but then that would mean im on the fiddle which i dont wanna do cause i dont wanna be just another jack the lad w/c i want to do it all legal and try to make a good business out of it for my kids so they dont have to see me and the mrs struggling to put grub on the table like our parent/s did as for the j.c i dont think theyve got a clue the bird that signed me didnt she went off to ask an advisor he/she didnt either they said to me go and see the employment provider your with in my case its a company called the wise group but i cant get an app til thursday so ive made an app with c.a.b on monday which should hopefully put me in the picture like ive already said im am CHOKING to get out there especially with the gd weather weve bn having tell u 1 thing tho my windows have never been so clean lol

What you have to be careful of is that each staff member probably does know what they're doing - but only in relation to the particular benefit they deal with.  It's where it impacts on another benefit that the difficulties start.  I got lucky when I first started.  I was single and had no debts so I needed very little to get by.  Also, just as I was starting canvassing, I bumped into an old friend who put me onto one weeks driving a month - working away.  So for the first Winter, I built my window cleaning around the self-employed driving job.  By the time the driving folded, I had half a round which I could manage on.  By that time interest rates had plummeted (pulled out of ERM) and people had a bit more money to spend.  Even until I had been window cleaning for 6 months, I was still looking out for a job.  I knew what my destiny was when I was offered a job and turned it down.  Honestly, they wanted me to beg and scrape for a pittance.  I knew my future was in self-employment then.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 08:40:20 pm
Good for you mate. You have the right attitude to run a business and in our line of work honesty and trust go along way with our customers. Im sure you will do really well!

cheers mate ;D
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 08:42:48 pm
Alrite guys as the title says im on the dole but due to start up my self ive got everything ready i.e trad tools ladder flyers etc etc. the thing is i cant gaurentee my monthly income yet and i dont want to jump in head first then find my self not being able to cover my bills every month let alone feed my family does any 1 no if i can claim any benefits until i get a decent regular income ive been stewing over this for the last wk im choking to get out there and earn a honest LEGAL income if any of you have been in the same situation recently PLEASE let me know i wanna get out there but wanna do it right

I know the dilemma well from when I started up 20 years ago.
I'm sure many rules have changed in that time but I did swing it - legally.  However, the problem is not the dole money (non means tested) as you can generally claim that so long as your income stays below a certain amount and making sure you earn all that in a single day.  The problem tends to lie with housing benefit and income support.  As I recall it the state itself was the biggest obstruction.  This was because each benefit had its start of the week on different days of the week.  As benefits tend to be assessed on a weekly basis, this makes it very difficult to honestly declare your income and retain enough to scrape by on (bearing in mind that you can deduct expenses too).
I wouldn't normally say this but I feel that if someone genuinely wants to free themself from benefits, they are better off being economical with the truth for a few weeks/months until they are earning enough to get by.  This is because if there is any type of enterprise allowance on offer (to ease the transition), you usually only get it if you have been out of work for quite a while.
While I normally wouldn't have the time of day for a long term cheat, I don't have any real issue about someone just taking a bit for a few weeks while they're sorting things out.






I no what you mean paul about economical truth but where im living theres that many nosey jealous f***ers i would probably be grassed up within the wk but i might just go for it and get out canvessing monday
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 09:17:40 pm
[



I no what you mean paul about economical truth but where im living theres that many nosey jealous f***ers i would probably be grassed up within the wk but i might just go for it and get out canvessing monday

[/quote]

 in fact maybe not after reading one of the other posts
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Johnny B on March 26, 2011, 09:27:57 pm
West Coast,

I admire your attitude and work ethic. You deserve to do well and I am sure that you will.

I would keep the job centre informed as to what you are doing. You clearly are a man of integrity, which will stand you in good stead with the j.c. Honesty is not the best policy, it is the only policy!

Keep a record of what they tell you, in writing if possible, so that you can cover your back in the event of them giving you any incorrect advice (quite likely).

Very best wishes,
John.   

Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 09:35:10 pm
cheers john.
im on it first thing monday like ive said a number of times today i wanna get out working but the legal way yet i dont wanna jump in head first and f**k up yet the non legal way keeps popping its head up ive found my self heading off that way a few times (in theory) but keep telling my self to do it right then it will/should work out for the best in the long run
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: christopher b on March 26, 2011, 11:11:37 pm
West coast
I take it you have kids?
if yes I can posibly set you on right tracks, but not going into details on here PM me.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: lcwalker on March 26, 2011, 11:11:50 pm
I know of someone who has been unemployed a fair while and i saw him in the local paper the other week starting up a business on a goverment scheme which gives him a startup grant of £1500 and allows he to stay on jobseekers untill he gets up and running.He use to work with my brother so i dont only know of him but there are schemes out there to help but you probably have to enquire about them.
When i was last unemployed 10+ years ago i found the jobcentre staff useless for help, but i think you have to really push for ther help, i know of another bloke unemployed for a long time but said he didn't have anything to wear for interview they gave him burtons vouchers to get a suit, so there help in the system but it's not alway offered you have to push for it.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: christopher b on March 26, 2011, 11:41:16 pm
have sent you an email....
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 26, 2011, 11:48:18 pm
replyed
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 27, 2011, 06:43:09 am
Alrite guys as the title says im on the dole but due to start up my self ive got everything ready i.e trad tools ladder flyers etc etc. the thing is i cant gaurentee my monthly income yet and i dont want to jump in head first then find my self not being able to cover my bills every month let alone feed my family does any 1 no if i can claim any benefits until i get a decent regular income ive been stewing over this for the last wk im choking to get out there and earn a honest LEGAL income if any of you have been in the same situation recently PLEASE let me know i wanna get out there but wanna do it right

I know the dilemma well from when I started up 20 years ago.
I'm sure many rules have changed in that time but I did swing it - legally.  However, the problem is not the dole money (non means tested) as you can generally claim that so long as your income stays below a certain amount and making sure you earn all that in a single day.  The problem tends to lie with housing benefit and income support.  As I recall it the state itself was the biggest obstruction.  This was because each benefit had its start of the week on different days of the week.  As benefits tend to be assessed on a weekly basis, this makes it very difficult to honestly declare your income and retain enough to scrape by on (bearing in mind that you can deduct expenses too).
I wouldn't normally say this but I feel that if someone genuinely wants to free themself from benefits, they are better off being economical with the truth for a few weeks/months until they are earning enough to get by.  This is because if there is any type of enterprise allowance on offer (to ease the transition), you usually only get it if you have been out of work for quite a while.
While I normally wouldn't have the time of day for a long term cheat, I don't have any real issue about someone just taking a bit for a few weeks while they're sorting things out.






I no what you mean paul about economical truth but where im living theres that many nosey jealous f***ers i would probably be grassed up within the wk but i might just go for it and get out canvessing monday


I hope it works out OK for you.  The unemployment benefit part (or whatever they re-named it too) isn't the issue.  You can earn up to £x per weekBelow that and all that should be docked is the proportion of the week that you work.  It was based on a 6 day week in 1991.  So I made sure that I did all my work (up to the limit) in one day.  I was only deducted one sixth of the benefit.  Of course this does depend on having the right kind of NI contributions.  The benefit lasted one year in 1991.  I think it's 6 months now.  As I say, I got lucky with the driving work.  The problems I had were never with UB.  It was with housing benefit and income support (IS was minimal for me though due to single status).
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: richardlingard on March 27, 2011, 08:33:36 am
if you canvass door knock and be smart all the time you have you should easily pick up £50 a days work, canvass all week and clean it the next all the time dropping out leaflets, fill up a weeks work then aim for the second and the third, you will find from referals and leaflet drops the forth will take care of itself pretty much, you have three months to do this before registering as self employed, then you can go as a sole trader, just work out how much tax you need to keep back because they will ask you for it. you will be making enough easily mate more than the dole after a couple of days canvassing, thats how i set up
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: richard jagger on March 27, 2011, 09:18:13 am
I WAS GOING TO ADD BUT ALL HAVE COVERED ALL BASES KEEPING A RECORD OF WHAT IS TOLD YOU IS IMPORTANT AS YOU WILL  SEE DIFFERENT PEOPLE EACH WEEK AND THEY DO NOT SING FROM THE SAME SHEET.i WENT THROUGH ALL AND GOT NOTHING AS I DID NOT KEEP RECORDS.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: gr cleaning solutions on March 27, 2011, 09:34:49 am
I was on job seekers for a year but in this time i looked into everything that i could get from them and others. I sat down and picked a date i wanted to sign off , i went to in biz , morrison trust , working link for funding i got all my pole , brush backpack scrims tbars etc paid for as well as some training course for the carpets.

Then three months before the date i chose to sign off i was out with leaflets , business cards spreading the word via facebook and what ever work i got i cleaned then on the day i was signing off i got the self employment credit a brand new set off ladders , stand off from the job centre so i did have some work to go to and then for 16 wks i was out as much as possible , but signing off is a great feeling.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Ryan @ Transparent, Carlisle on March 27, 2011, 08:22:29 pm
i had same problem.

What i did was declared my self employed income to the dole, and they took away that amount from my giro
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 28, 2011, 12:56:54 pm
cheers guys went to the c.a.b today but it was basically a waste of time the bloke didnt have a clue he couldnt even work the comp and he tried arguing with me that the 50 quid self employed benefit wasnt finished on the 31st which i no for sure it is so ive got an appointment tomorrow with the j.c  i will let you all know how i get on
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: richardlingard on March 28, 2011, 03:39:00 pm
haha i remember those harsh conversations with people sat behind a desk earning just over minimum wage looking down their nose at you..... mate in 6 months time you will earn in a day what those office monkeys that can't even use thier own equipment earn in a week, they will still look down at you though because your just a scummy window cleaner lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 29, 2011, 06:29:38 pm
same story today at the job centre they cant help me because im under an employment agency (got an app with them thursday) so the 50 quid for 16 wks is out the window this is gettin on my tits if it wasnt the fact ive got 2 young kids i would just sign off and hope for the best
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Kate2 on March 29, 2011, 06:35:28 pm
Hi West, under an employment agency in what respect?  Just being registered?
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 29, 2011, 06:48:15 pm
because theres so many unemployed in this area the job centre send people to an employment agency where you have to see an adviser to explain what youve been doin to look for work and do certain course like c.v prep interview skills so on so on dont no of any1 that theyve actually got a job tho
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Kate2 on March 29, 2011, 06:50:35 pm
Does that make you not entitled to that help? Money wise?
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 29, 2011, 06:54:11 pm
not from the j.c and they couldnt tell me if the wise group offer any help 1 gd thing come out of it tho the bloke i see said that once im running to go in and give him some of my flyers and he will plaster them all over the jc staff rooms cause theyve over 100 people working in there
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Kate2 on March 29, 2011, 07:02:06 pm
West you must be entitled to this help.  Weve got strange circumstances this end, because my husband came back from Malaysia and he was able to sign on, based on contributions, no more though. Hes only entitled to sign for NI, but hes actually paid his 25 years of NI so there isnt much point.  He was told exactly the same £50 a week if you start a business.  Im sorry that you are going through all this hassle, you must have a fair case to get this.

Regards
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: christopher b on March 29, 2011, 07:11:14 pm
because theres so many unemployed in this area the job centre send people to an employment agency where you have to see an adviser to explain what youve been doin to look for work and do certain course like c.v prep interview skills so on so on dont no of any1 that theyve actually got a job tho


Ah been there, 13 week course with A4E what a nightmare. it was then I decided the only person who can help me is myself!
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: awcs on March 29, 2011, 08:57:06 pm
I stacked shelves while i built up my round. took me about a year but but there with hard work and determination
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 29, 2011, 09:36:54 pm
I stacked shelves while i built up my round. took me about a year but but there with hard work and determination


thats the thing tho theres no work all the jobs that are advertised about 6/700 people apply for them any way on a good note was speaking to some one tonite who said theres another employment provider called the ceis that helped an old mate of mine with the same sort of stuff so im assuming that this lot im gonna see thursday should help out   
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Johnny B on March 30, 2011, 08:37:31 am
West Coast,

I have just re-read your third post.

As you are married with children, you should be entitled to working families tax credit, and possibly child tax credit.

Look up uk-tax-credits.com for more details.

Best wishes,
John

Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: Squeegee Clean blackpool on March 30, 2011, 11:45:02 am
I dont know where abouts in ayrshire you are but i used t live in newton stewart in galloway and started a round there, in 6 months i was taking £1500 a month by just leaflets and people seeing me so it might be worth trying the more remote towns and villages.
Title: Re: Dole bum-Self employed
Post by: K.J.M on March 30, 2011, 02:06:19 pm
I dont know where abouts in ayrshire you are but i used t live in newton stewart in galloway and started a round there, in 6 months i was taking £1500 a month by just leaflets and people seeing me so it might be worth trying the more remote towns and villages.


sounds good oggi i wouldnt mind bringin in that a month im just out side kilwinning mate