Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Richard BF on March 21, 2011, 03:23:38 pm
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Hi guys
ive canvassed for just over £100 worth of work for a local wc in Grimsby , mainly terraces with one or two semis priced at £7-£14.50 , the current wc doestnt want the work as the gates have been locked - although i have a contact number for which to ring and arrange a day for the gate to be left unlocked.
Anybody who covers grimsby want it ?
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Hi mate.
That sucks, you still canvassing for him?
Also list the price so people know what your wanting ;)
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why would current w/c not just ring to get gate unlocked???? i do loads in grimsby how much you looking for it?
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why would current w/c not just ring to get gate unlocked???? i do loads in grimsby how much you looking for it?
There are dozens of threads on here where you'll get neanderthals telling you that phoning a customer is something that must NEVER be done as it'll make you the customer's bitch. Perhaps the guy read too many of those threads...
Vin
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why wouldnt you phone the customer ?
they all asked to be phoned prior to having their windows cleaned so that they can leave the gate open on the day.
im looking at £200 for the wook X2 the rate.
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why wouldnt you phone the customer ?
they all asked to be phoned prior to having their windows cleaned so that they can leave the gate open on the day.
im looking at £200 for the wook X2 the rate.
I will phone/text for a gate to be left unlocked but I avoid it as much as possible.
I suppose what it comes down to is; Would you rather have a round where you rarely have to pre-arrange or a round where you have to do it most of the time?
Things that have happened when pre-arranging
1) They "forget" to leave the gate unlocked ("forget" being an excuse because they didn't want them done this time).
2) They are on holiday. It's peak holiday season and half the customers are away. Your daily income is £80 down on what you expected. You can't go to the next batch of work that you were planning to do the next day because they mostly need to be phoned too and there won't be any access.
3) You phone. There is no answer. They do not have a voicemail service. You have to spend the evening remembering to phone them back again. About 9 PM someone finally picks up the phone and says "Oh. Can you leave them this time please?" You feel like telling them to go forth and multiply but of course, you don't.
4) You phone (landline) and leave a message on the voicemail requesting access the next day. You turn up, it's a job on its own a bit away from the rest so you've put yourself out a fair bit. No access. It eventually transpires that they didn't get the message till too late. This is because you often only become aware of the message when you pickup the phone due to the only warning being the intermittent dial tone.
5) You have pre-arranged a number of jobs and start doing the day's work. Part way through you start feeling totally knackered and really feel as if you need a very early finish. You can't though because you've promised to turn up and even though you feel a bit rough, you still have to do the work.
6) You start full of beans and fly through the work. At the end of all the pre-arranged work you feel as if you would like to get another 3 or 4 houses in. You can't though because the next work in your schedule also has to be pre-arranged.
Sound familiar to anyone else?
I didn't make it up. All the above have happened.
On my own round I can filter it so that very little needs to be pre-arranged. I will do it but with some reluctance and very sparingly.
I'm not a dinosaur either. I just believe that the business is mine to build into my life in the most convenient way that I am able. As soon as I relinquish control of a big part of my business to the customers, it becomes far more difficult to run. It also becomes much less cost effective.
I spent too many years in factories etc. having to do what I was told. I don't intend to do the same while self-employed.
Has anyone seen my soap box? ;D
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got to say thats POST OF THE WEEK(although its only monday!!! ;D ;D ;D)
i couldnt of put it better myself paul!!pre arranging all your work is foolish IMO.
I HAVE A FEW BUT ITS ONLY A FEW BECAUSE OF THE ABOVE REASONS!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
regards
dazmond
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Definately post of the week.
Clearly and concisely written, nice one. You can't misunderstand that.
I guess maybe the guy in Grimsby has read on here about calling the night before and has come to the correct conclusion: he doesnt want to be anyone's 'bitch'.
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Fair points but surely its still a bit unfair to have a canvasser and turn down work he generates because of this?
Whats wrong with popping your hand over to unlock? Or even using the step ladder in the back of your van to climb over?
Inconvenience and £100 worth of work a month (if its monthly) is better than not having the extra £100. Its clear the guy needs it or he wouldn't hire Richard?
::)
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stex
The canvasser will have been told do not knock bad access, do not knock bad access, do not knock bad access
Of course it easier to get these customers because no one wants them. Some one on here may take the jobs, but i would be amazed if anyone paid for them.
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Gates locked is no big problem for me, I have quite a few i have to text the evening before so they can leave gate unlocked, its the way the world is now, would you leave your front door unlocked? People have some expensive stuff in their back gardens.
I have a computer programme to send texts, just tick who you want to send to and it sends them all a pre saved message, takes a minute to do a whole round if needed. www.txtlocal.co.uk
If they forget or intentionally leave gate locked i do the fronts a 2/3 to 3/4 of the full rate (they rarely forget again!!) as I have fulfilled my end of the agreement and have travelled especially to do the job.
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why wouldnt you phone the customer ?
they all asked to be phoned prior to having their windows cleaned so that they can leave the gate open on the day.
im looking at £200 for the wook X2 the rate.
I will phone/text for a gate to be left unlocked but I avoid it as much as possible.
I suppose what it comes down to is; Would you rather have a round where you rarely have to pre-arrange or a round where you have to do it most of the time?
Things that have happened when pre-arranging
1) They "forget" to leave the gate unlocked ("forget" being an excuse because they didn't want them done this time).
2) They are on holiday. It's peak holiday season and half the customers are away. Your daily income is £80 down on what you expected. You can't go to the next batch of work that you were planning to do the next day because they mostly need to be phoned too and there won't be any access.
3) You phone. There is no answer. They do not have a voicemail service. You have to spend the evening remembering to phone them back again. About 9 PM someone finally picks up the phone and says "Oh. Can you leave them this time please?" You feel like telling them to go forth and multiply but of course, you don't.
4) You phone (landline) and leave a message on the voicemail requesting access the next day. You turn up, it's a job on its own a bit away from the rest so you've put yourself out a fair bit. No access. It eventually transpires that they didn't get the message till too late. This is because you often only become aware of the message when you pickup the phone due to the only warning being the intermittent dial tone.
5) You have pre-arranged a number of jobs and start doing the day's work. Part way through you start feeling totally knackered and really feel as if you need a very early finish. You can't though because you've promised to turn up and even though you feel a bit rough, you still have to do the work.
6) You start full of beans and fly through the work. At the end of all the pre-arranged work you feel as if you would like to get another 3 or 4 houses in. You can't though because the next work in your schedule also has to be pre-arranged.
Sound familiar to anyone else?
I didn't make it up. All the above have happened.
On my own round I can filter it so that very little needs to be pre-arranged. I will do it but with some reluctance and very sparingly.
I'm not a dinosaur either. I just believe that the business is mine to build into my life in the most convenient way that I am able. As soon as I relinquish control of a big part of my business to the customers, it becomes far more difficult to run. It also becomes much less cost effective.
I spent too many years in factories etc. having to do what I was told. I don't intend to do the same while self-employed.
Has anyone seen my soap box? ;D
Post of the week i with you all the way .
Imo ANY notification work is worthless to me personally i would never dare buy anything of the sort.
some window cleaners will pay and take it but for alot of us the pains of these sort of customers are listed above and they aint exaggerated
what paul coleman is saying is so true.
i only have very few and i hope never to get anymore
Richard if you are offering some sort of guarantee on these watch out i bet you any money 50% may mess about thus you could owe the new windy a customer or 2,
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if its where im thinking m8,its a nightmare,got locked in one of them streets,somebody decided to lock the communal gate!
Hi guys
ive canvassed for just over £100 worth of work for a local wc in Grimsby , mainly terraces with one or two semis priced at £7-£14.50 , the current wc doestnt want the work as the gates have been locked - although i have a contact number for which to ring and arrange a day for the gate to be left unlocked.
Anybody who covers grimsby want it ?
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Imo ANY notification work is worthless to me personally i would never dare buy anything of the sort.
some window cleaners will pay and take it but for alot of us the pains of these sort of customers are listed above and they aint exaggerated
what paul coleman is saying is so true.
i only have very few and i hope never to get anymore
Richard if you are offering some sort of guarantee on these watch out i bet you any money 50% may mess about thus you could owe the new windy a customer or 2,
Although I have a few perfectly OK customers who do need to be pre-notified, generally, customers who require this type of service do tend to mess around more. There are exceptions though and I work for some of them. Having very few customers who require this is also a big plus because if a rare glitch does happen, it is possible to go to other jobs in the area to fill the time. This is because the substitute customers do not need to be pre-notified. Another reason I have very few like this is because, if they start messing about, they get dropped. This isn't spite on my part. It's a business decision. It may only take a relatively small proportion of messer abouters to drag a business down - especially if already needing to price tightly anyway.
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Not notifying customers is all well and good and in an ideal world my round would be made up of these people , however by doing this what you are effectively doing is cutting your potential customer base in half (possibly more depending on the area) as a previous poster has said people are security conscious in this day and age and lots of people lock their gates , simple solution is text them the day before i do this because i have to as my aim is to have a BIG window cleaning firm and it does not make business sense for me to turn my back on LOTS of good custies. I have done this from the start and i dont notify customers for the sake of it but only for access issues. I agree that voice calls can be a PITA so a tip is for custies that dont have a mobile to text the landline and if they have a voicemail (which nearly all do) then an automated message will be left on their voicemail. No Problem , though if you want a stress and hassle free round that you may or may not fill then that is up to you. Though IMO the idea of having to turn your back on a good custie because they lock their gate is nuts ??? ;D
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Thats an odd assumption to make, i.e. that half of gates are padlocked and the other half aren't. Because that simply isnt the case.
When I price up a new domestic I always make a point of enquiring about the gate and accesibility to the rear of the property. If its just latched and or bolted, no problem; if its padlocked they have to supply a key and generally do. Those that dont I assume dont fulfill my customer profile.
I dont think anyone is suggesting you should turn your back on a customer because they lock their gate, I think you're oversimplifying the case. Some here, turn their back on a customer because they require you to contact them the night before.
Hassle-free is preferable.
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yes indeed if you turn your back on a customer who needs contacting then you are turning your back on a potential custy , it is extra hassle sure but it all depends what you are looking for , if it is a hassle free round then thats you are happy to plod round when and if it suits you then fine but if like me you are looking to have a proper business that is growing and no reason to turn down extra decent revenue then you have to add abit of hassle to your round now and again.
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Well it worked getting the numbers dor Kev Dr Windows he rang them arranged a date never had a problem infact a few comments were made about me being polite etc etc...
DEFINATLEY doesnt make you the customers bitch at all , its one phonecall to arrange a date for the first clean - when you collect the money just a simple can you leave it open next month aswell , with this day and age and phone contracts and the like its not exactly "costing" you to send a quick text or leave a voicemail "hi ill be cleaining your windows today can you leave the gate unlocked please"
Im just simply trying to sell some work that a current window cleaner doesnt want at the request of the customers "can you ring and let me know when you will be coming so i can leave the gate unlocked".
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yes indeed if you turn your back on a customer who needs contacting then you are turning your back on a potential custy
and on unnecessary aggro and hassle
it is extra hassle sure but it all depends what you are looking for
yup, if your after hassle its a good start
if it is a hassle free round then thats you are happy to plod round when and if it suits you
hassle free yes as for the second comment, what?? ;D how does plodding around come into it?
then fine but if like me you are looking to have a proper business that is growing and no reason to turn down extra decent revenue then you have to add abit of hassle to your round now and again.
Im not suggesting your not trying to grow a proper business, however suggesting because others arent prepared to tolerate potentially problematic customers aren't trying to build a proper business is just silly. Good luck.
Saying that mate, I guess as you have an alterior motive, i.e. trying to sell this work; I can understand your viewpoint.
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???
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happy plodding ;)
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How many houses richard? I will make you a offer
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While this is in Grimsby, so has no direct effect on me, I'll just point out that I love other windys who find it too much hassle to give their customers what they want. This is one of the last bastions of "I'm all right Jack" and it generates so much business for me. I simply thrive on the enormous hassle of sending out texts to all my customers the night before I visit. It uses up a massive minute or two of my time every single evening.
I simply ask all other windys in Southampton to keep on refusing to call your customers; I have plenty of customers whose gripe with their last guy was "I never knew when he was coming; I'd just get woken up/see them at the top of their ladder/come home to a slip and realise I'd not left the gate open".
Keep all your difficult customers coming to me.
Vin
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Not notifying customers is all well and good and in an ideal world my round would be made up of these people , however by doing this what you are effectively doing is cutting your potential customer base in half (possibly more depending on the area) as a previous poster has said people are security conscious in this day and age and lots of people lock their gates , simple solution is text them the day before i do this because i have to as my aim is to have a BIG window cleaning firm and it does not make business sense for me to turn my back on LOTS of good custies. I have done this from the start and i dont notify customers for the sake of it but only for access issues. I agree that voice calls can be a PITA so a tip is for custies that dont have a mobile to text the landline and if they have a voicemail (which nearly all do) then an automated message will be left on their voicemail. No Problem , though if you want a stress and hassle free round that you may or may not fill then that is up to you. Though IMO the idea of having to turn your back on a good custie because they lock their gate is nuts ??? ;D
Hi Matt ;D
I take your point Matt and I have been a little easier on this issue recently. However, if the messing about starts then it really does become unviable.
I think the big difference between our situations in this regard is doing all the window cleaning yourself vs. paying people to do it and making a profit. As you know, when you do it all yourself (i.e. as a sole trader) then any messing about has a much larger effect on the cleaner's income. Not only is it money not earned but it is also a loss of time that could have been better spent servicing another, more reliable customer. However, when you perhaps, subcontract work out, you don't suffer the fallout of unreliable customers in the same way because although a bit less profit may be made, it doesn't directly impact on the time issue. Also, I imagine that there is more merit in keeping a customer when a canvasser has been paid for getting the job. I do indeed have some good customers who need to be texted/phoned first but for the reasons that I outlined, I don't have too many of them. I don't actually turn a job down these days due to such an access issue but I will drop such a job more quickly if the messing about starts. Also, if I see a probable access issue like this, it does add to the price. However, one thing I am pretty insistent on is that I will only do days, not times i.e. if it's a case of "only clean when I'm home" this will not be done unless (a) it's a decent sized job with a decent sized price and (b) there is no problem with doing it as first clean of the day with a reasonably early start time.
Nothing wrong with either way of working but I think a sole trader maybe needs to work to a different business model from an employer/contractor.
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yes indeed if you turn your back on a customer who needs contacting then you are turning your back on a potential custy
and on unnecessary aggro and hassle
it is extra hassle sure but it all depends what you are looking for
yup, if your after hassle its a good start
if it is a hassle free round then thats you are happy to plod round when and if it suits you
hassle free yes as for the second comment, what?? ;D how does plodding around come into it?
then fine but if like me you are looking to have a proper business that is growing and no reason to turn down extra decent revenue then you have to add abit of hassle to your round now and again.
Im not suggesting your not trying to grow a proper business, however suggesting because others arent prepared to tolerate potentially problematic customers aren't trying to build a proper business is just silly. Good luck.
Saying that mate, I guess as you have an alterior motive, i.e. trying to sell this work; I can understand your viewpoint.
Er. I don't think so somehow ;D
The work is in Grimsby, Lincs and Matt3 is in Surrey ;D .
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While this is in Grimsby, so has no direct effect on me, I'll just point out that I love other windys who find it too much hassle to give their customers what they want. This is one of the last bastions of "I'm all right Jack" and it generates so much business for me. I simply thrive on the enormous hassle of sending out texts to all my customers the night before I visit. It uses up a massive minute or two of my time every single evening.
I simply ask all other windys in Southampton to keep on refusing to call your customers; I have plenty of customers whose gripe with their last guy was "I never knew when he was coming; I'd just get woken up/see them at the top of their ladder/come home to a slip and realise I'd not left the gate open".
Keep all your difficult customers coming to me.
Vin
Just wondering though how it might be if you had a pretty full round of jobs with no real access problems and a few customers wanted to be pre-notified and kept messing you about.
I've nothing against me pre-notifying BTW so long as the custie keeps their word and so long as the number of customers who require this are kept down to a level that doesn't affect the viability of my business.
I suppose a simpler question would be that if you were 20 customers short of a full round, would you take the 20 who wanted to be pre-notified or the 20 who don't?
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Just wondering though how it might be if you had a pretty full round of jobs with no real access problems and a few customers wanted to be pre-notified and kept messing you about.
I've nothing against me pre-notifying BTW so long as the custie keeps their word and so long as the number of customers who require this are kept down to a level that doesn't affect the viability of my business.
I suppose a simpler question would be that if you were 20 customers short of a full round, would you take the 20 who wanted to be pre-notified or the 20 who don't?
I think the biggest problem with the antediluvian opinions on this thread is the belief that someone who you notify is, by definition, a "messer". However, someone who does turn out to be a messer I will deal with (regardless of whether they needed notification).
As regards your final question, all of my customers are pre-notified every time I visit, so I wouldn't care if a customer needed it.
Vin
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If Dave wants the others then its
£83 X2 £166
Ill take £150 cash.
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Just wondering though how it might be if you had a pretty full round of jobs with no real access problems and a few customers wanted to be pre-notified and kept messing you about.
I've nothing against me pre-notifying BTW so long as the custie keeps their word and so long as the number of customers who require this are kept down to a level that doesn't affect the viability of my business.
I suppose a simpler question would be that if you were 20 customers short of a full round, would you take the 20 who wanted to be pre-notified or the 20 who don't?
I think the biggest problem with the antediluvian opinions on this thread is the belief that someone who you notify is, by definition, a "messer". However, someone who does turn out to be a messer I will deal with (regardless of whether they needed notification).
As regards your final question, all of my customers are pre-notified every time I visit, so I wouldn't care if a customer needed it.
Vin
Not at all.
However, my own experience is that a customer who requires pre-notification is more likely to mess about than one who doesn't. Your experience may be different.
Pre-notifying everyone, whether needed or not, sounds like making unnecessary work for yourself. If you don't mind that then good luck to you.
I think what put me off this over the years was when I first started window cleaning, a lot of customers messed me about for quite a long while.
The problem may have lain with me. It's possible that I may have given off the signals that I was a soft touch - and people picked up on that. These days I know my general self esteem is much better than it was 20 years ago - maybe why I seem to pick up a higher percentage of decent customers.
Anyway, no more posting for me for a while. I'm off out in a minute.
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Theyre also all within 5 minutes walking of eachoter aswell.
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yes indeed if you turn your back on a customer who needs contacting then you are turning your back on a potential custy
and on unnecessary aggro and hassle
it is extra hassle sure but it all depends what you are looking for
yup, if your after hassle its a good start
if it is a hassle free round then thats you are happy to plod round when and if it suits you
hassle free yes as for the second comment, what?? ;D how does plodding around come into it?
then fine but if like me you are looking to have a proper business that is growing and no reason to turn down extra decent revenue then you have to add abit of hassle to your round now and again.
Im not suggesting your not trying to grow a proper business, however suggesting because others arent prepared to tolerate potentially problematic customers aren't trying to build a proper business is just silly. Good luck.
Saying that mate, I guess as you have an alterior motive, i.e. trying to sell this work; I can understand your viewpoint.
Er. I don't think so somehow ;D
The work is in Grimsby, Lincs and Matt3 is in Surrey ;D .
Your right, about the alterior motive, I mis-reaed the page.
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Give you hundred.
Are you still canvassing for him?
If Dave wants the others then its
£83 X2 £166
Ill take £150 cash.
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ive just phoned a customer( a big church!)its booked in for 9am friday morning.its takes just less than 2 hours from pulling up to driving away for £80.its only a 6 monthly though but still worth it.then ill be finishing off any domestic i have left to do that ive planned to clean this week but none of the others will be pre notified.theyll be expecting me though as its work on a big estate.they will have seen me over the last few days!! ;D ;D ;D
dazmond
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Matt its good how you are thinking but i fear that notifying more then %10 of your work may slow your growth down if its working for you honestly thats great, its true i too have a few who really corporate but even they sometimes say , ah im away this weekend they refuse the front,
imagine if my whole days work for text before in peak season and 5 out of 10 say im on holiday skip me , this is why i make sure 90% is no notify much better making the front value then no value all it means you will need more customers to make up for the loss of income.
hope it all works out with selling those customers they could be good customers you just never know till you get the 1st two cleans out the way!
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Im a buyer not a seller ;)
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im okay to hurdle the gate as a rule. but ive one job where i use triple ladders and thats becoming a bugbear , getting the beasts over the locked gate . next time i go im going to look at whether itll lift off its hinges . its a newish metal gate,not rotten wood . maybe use a pole to act as a fulcrum under the gate ?