Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: stuart_clark on March 15, 2011, 11:04:50 pm
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I was looking to purchase a couple of Airflex Turbo's tripple vac machines , but was talking to a carpet cleaner today that i know, who has had no end of trouble with his!
I wont mention his name cos i havent had his permission but he has been trading like myself over twenty years! and has had enough experience with most hwe machines
I need feedback from other owners of these machines if possible ? probably cleaners that have had these machines for a year or more! then i can just say this guy i know has just had rotten luck with his ! Best regards Stuart Clark
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what problems has he been having?
I've had mine for 18 months and not one problem. Apart from 2 vacs and a pump head but thats cos i have put over 900 hours on it in that time.
Tony
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he has had a couple of vac motors and a pump motor go i think but that was in about twelve months i think but dont quote me! but wouldnt think he would of put anyware near the amount of hours that you have done! mind you thats hardly not one problem is it ? if you have had to replace the pump and two of the vacs ? basicaly most of the internal components of the machine
stu clark
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Well over 18 months and not a problem here. I would recommend if you use powders to dilute fully in hot water before putting it in the machine, if you use detergent put defoamer in the tank. Pump should last up to 500 hrs before it needs a service according to manufacturer. I had the machine checked over at 250 hrs just make sure all was well and it's fine.
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The above seems in line with most of the machines that we see in our workshop at this spec from various manufacturers.
That said we have a Kleenrite Edge/Chemspec Hydrovantage that has never had a vac motor in 8 years. The heaters ain't to efficient anymore tho. I know of others that are the same. It's a shame it isn't as powerful/portable as newer machines. We use it now to collect all the dust in the workshop.
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You could also look at the Scorpion or the Altec Advance.
I have the Altec Triple Vac 600 psi and I particularly like the way the machine is designed internally. The motors are situated at the back which sees the Centre Of Gravity (COG) right over the axle which is ideal for loading/unloading from the van.
The Scorpion has plenty of followers and a proven track record too. A lot of users make it so it is van mounted with extra tanks for water, auto-dump/fill. So there is no bucket emptying/filling scenarios which are the bug bear for a lot of carpet cleaners.
I couldn't possibly comment on the Airflex as I've never used one. But certainly do your research and you will get the right machine in the end :)
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Thanks for replys guys! I already have two Scorpians, got the 1st new three years ago and the second, second hand, they are a light and powerful machine, but ive had quite a few problems with them and the build quality isn't brilliant and they are a bugger to work on
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Oh no! like what? Ive just purchased one.. do you use a inline heater, if so which one?? Someone posted a link for a mytee??
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Had ours for about a year, had one problem with the pump head and one vac motor blew both replaced under warranty and only took about 20 mins to change over its that easy to do!
Simon
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Tony my scorpians do more hours than that in a year yet i havent changed the vacume motors for over two years! Ive had some problems with the pump head but that may have had somthing to do with the powdered chemical i have been using! it worries me that a few of you are changing vacume motors within a year of having them, saying all that they still look like a very good machine and although i haven't purchased anything from cleansmart, Matt seems like a good guy ! and has a lot of respect from a lot of people!
I think the jury is still out for me on this one for the time being!
I wont rule it out altogether as it still looks like a very good machine! will see what Nicks new machine is like before i make my mind up
Regards Stu Clark
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2 vac motors and a pump head is nothing out the ordinary for 900 hrs 18 months use on any make or model of portable.
On my origional prochem steameasy i would go through a vac motor every 8 to 12 months and the same with the 70 psi flojet pump. Then bought 2 ninjas and pretty much the same if your busy this type of wear is only too be expected although i do think they should be made to last longer.
Regards Andy Locke.
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well if thats the general oppinion with regard to vacume motor life expectencey i think i will stick to my scorpian , obviousley it must be a far superior machine as the vacume motors last many thousands of hours
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Stuart
Does the scorpian come with an hours clock on it?
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Don't these machines have all the same vacs ie lamb motors? A strong factor on them going IMO is lack of ventilation and foam being sucked through them and brushes not changed before they wear down.
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Paul
Machines can have the same vac motors in, so why do they last different lenghts of time.
You state a couple of reasons which are probably true.
but what about how the machine is engineered - designed and put together.
i am horrified when I here some stories on here on how little time some vac motors last, and it is put up with.
My Scorpion is perhaps 6 years old now (I am the 2nd owner) and as far as I know it has had 2 vac motors and 1 pump/motor complete.
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Also worth bearing in mind some cleaners do twice or three time the work of others.
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You are correct their John, I dont use my machine as much as others but its former owner used it a lot for the first 2.5 years. But 2 motors and 1 pump in 6 years is still good going.
On the design/engineering side, the Scorpion has a lot of access to free air around its vac motors helping to cool - just wonder if that helps.
And also 3 vac motors - 3 stacks in the vacuum tank of the Scorpion, as opposed to one very large stack in the Airflex (think it may be 4" diameter). Could that be sucking some moist air through and into the motors ??
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Joe there is alot to be said for simple maintenance too.Just drying it out after rinsing it at the end of the day and running the vacs for 3mins before storing the machine with the lid off helps.Regards Alan(swindon)
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Vacs used in both machines are sealed so water or moisture can pass through the motor and be vented, this is why you must run the vacs for 5 - 10 mins to clear moisture from all machines. The problem with both machines is foam. Not using defoamer or allowing foam build up will damage both machines because of turbulance. I've never had a problem, 18 months on and I have not changed a vac or pump, but if you don't run the vacs at the end of the working day they will fail on any machine. The pump motor has a large vent and there is large fan drawing heat and there is more than enough room for circulation because all the motors are not laying in a tray but mounted on a flip panel allowing a larger cooling area, as all the switches and pump controller are mounted on the top leaving a less uncluttered environment.
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My previous machine was the speedster ran it 3-4 yrs FULL time - one pump head and replaced one vac twice , the other is still original and runnin fine.
There seems to be no rhyme nor reason for how long they last.
Previous machines ie extracta and prochem - the originals seem to last then nce you start replacing they dont seem to last as long.
Mike
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Same as the post above and i try n run mine for a few mins after the last job i do too .
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Perhaps it's not the machine but may be the quality of the vacuum motor? we hear about good ones and bad ones I would be it would be more on those lines.
Shaun
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If you read the bumph that the supplier of the airflex put out the vacs are high performance Lamb Amtech
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So much chinese stuff around I'd get a TM ;D
Shaun
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I tried a few Italian vac motors but was not impressed. I will only use Lamb motors in future.
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never really hd too much trouble wwith the lamb motors..
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I have had my triple vac Airflex for about 10 months now, compared to my old Ninja it is very well designed for ease of access to pump and vac motors, i looked inside the Ninja just once and thought better of it ! the Airflex is brilliant for access.
I had one vacuum motor go which was my fault for letting water get into the vacs, i am pretty sure it is on a par with the Scorpian for performance but out of the two i think the Airflex looks better, i would not hesitate to buy another, in fact i am looking at buying another so i have a spare for emergences although even when the vac motor went i still had enough power to finish the job.
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Jim
Cheaper just to buy a spare motor, then a spare machine, especially if access and chage over can be so quick.
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Yeah, I have two spare vac motors and a pump head. the vacs where £125 each and £150 or somthing like that for the pump head. Alot cheaper and takes up less space than buying a 2nd machine.
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Hi jim I started about the same time as you but I started with a airflex I went through 3 vacs In 3 months I nearly bought a second airflex as a backup thinking this was the norm but instead I purchased a scorpion I used it exactly the same as the airflex and not a problem. However the suplier took it upon himself to blame it on operator error and advise me not to put it on the forums in such a nice way
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To make it clear it wasn't the scorpion supplier he was very helpful and he still it two years on so much so he helped me get my first truckmount.
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^^ 3 Vacs in 3 months??? what the hell where you doing with it? lol
Anyways, back to normality.....
So a couple of questions to the scorpion users.
1. does the Scorpion come with an hours counters? so that you know exactly how many hours you've done? and
2. what type of vac motors and pumphead and motor are in the Scorpion? Because by the sounds of it i'm going to be swapping over all the compontents on my Airflex.
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Just cleaning carpets what do you think I was doing with it.
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Carpet Dawg, no the Scorpion does not have an hour counter, maybe a counter could be fitted but I am not very mechanically minded so couldnt say. I have an Extracta XL with an hour counter but it counts from the moment it is plugged into the mains so it is irrelevant as it will not give any accurate indication of the number of hours which the vac motors are running. If I remember correctly the hour counter on the Alltec machine worked somewhat similar.
Vac motors are Lamb Ametec. I cannot tell you what make the pump is beause after almost three and a half years of everyday use I have had no pump problems anyway.
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As Fintan says, Scorpion vac motors are Lamb as standard - been no "funny" makes fitted as standard.
After about 5.5 years of use I replaced the original Pumptec 112v 300psi pump with a new 500psi Pumptec just last August.
No hour meter on Scorpion but I reckon a good carpet cleaner who really knows his business would guestimate pretty accurately how many hours use the machines vacs/pump has had used in a year.
If you were to ask me - I wouldnt have a clue. ;D
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I average 4-5 jobs a day 5 days a week 46 weeks a year thats roughly 1200 hours a year and I have just replaced all three vacs in my Scorpian on the Christmas break! they had all been proffesionally re brushed twice but they have lasted over three years I thought it was uneconomical; to re brush once again so i have replaced them with the 1400w heavy duty type
Hopefully they will last just as long! I will keep you posted
regards Stu Clark
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Hi Guys
I had all sorts of vac problems with Extracta Exel and tried all the remedies, running for 5 mins at end of job, leaving lid open, storing indoors at night but nothing made any difference.
My vac bill was as high as my chemical one!
Swithced to Alltec advantage and have so far got 1900 hours out of original vacs.
I believe it is the way the vacs are set up which makes the difference.
I have been TM'd for the past 2.5 years so don't use a porty much now.
Cheers
Doug
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the problem with keeping vacs on stock in case of a breakdown is they might run of of guarantee before the actually get fitted into your machine, considering the tend to only give 3 months warranty on them.
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I get 3 months warranty with the vacs and the
shop that supplies and fits them gives an extra
3 months.
I wouldn't have a clue how many hours they've
done.
Certainly not 4-5 jobs a day 5 days a week 46
weeks a year as someone said earlier.
James, the Ninja's are dead easy for access for
working on.
John
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some machines do have an hour counter on the machine.
Same as doug i use alltecs and always get some goo life out of the motors.
Watch tmor now they all go down ;D
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John
it was me that said i did 4-5 jobs a day , but a few years ago just before my partner passed away we could do between 6-8 jobs a day between us but hey that was before the credit crunch, i realy dont think we will see days like that again or not for the forseeable future anyway
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Reply from Matt at Cleansmart to Stuart Clark’s recent posts:
I took a decision not to post on carpet cleaning forums some years ago. However, in light of the recent posts made by Stuart Clark on this and another internet forum, I feel I should respond.
Stuart is saying that 3 people have contacted him who have had problems with their Airflex machines, and that we have blamed user error in each case. During my telephone conversation with Stuart on Wednesday, Stuart named these three people so I would like to address each of these situations:
Mark d**es
This is markd34 who has posted above. Mark d**es purchased one of our very first machines back in May 2009. Mark did have 3 vac motors fail in a short space of time. We refunded Mark and I had hoped we had drawn a line under the situation, which was almost two years ago.
We did suspect user error, as we were not having similar problems with the other 20 or so machines being used at the time. If the problems Mark had were not due to user error, I guess we just have to put it down to teething problems on a new machine design, as it was then back in 2009.
Mike Roper
Mike has blown several vacuum motors since he purchased his machine in June last year. As I discussed with Mike, this means that either: A) There is a problem with the machine, or B) There is a problem with the way the machine is being used. I suggested that we have Mike’s machine collected and checked over to get to the bottom of it. On inspection, we did find a problem with Mike's machine which has now been rectified under warranty.
Tony Nigro (Carpet Dawg)
From my conversation with Stuart on Wednesday, Stuart has taken Tony’s comment on this thread as the third person who has experienced problems. However, the components Tony has used after 900 hours are perfectly normal on any extraction machine, and my understanding is that Tony is very happy with his machine.
We fit the very best Lamb Ametek vacuum motors in all our machines. According to the manufacturer, Lamb Ametek vacuum motors are designed to last around 500 hours, and up to around 800 hours if the carbon brushes are changed before they wear out. These figures come directly from the manufacturer and assume that the machine is looked after/stored properly/doesn’t have foam put through it etc.
Pumptec pump heads need to be changed or serviced every 500 hours.
Again, these figures come directly from the manufacturers – this is how long the components are designed to last! If you manage to get thousands of hours use from your vacuum motors and Pumptec pump then you are either very lucky, or maybe doing less machine hours than you imagine you are.
I must also respond to Stuart’s personal comments against me on the other forum. To say that I was "on the phone screaming and shouting down my phone threatening me to stop writing these posts" is at best a complete exaggeration. I don’t know Stuart and have never had any dealings with him before, so why he seems so intent on damaging the reputation of this company and our machine I do not know.
In comparison to the many other machines we are familiar with, the reliability of Airflex machines stands up perfectly well. However, with over 200 of these machines now in use, it is inevitable we are going to encounter problems/problem machines from time to time. Where there is a problem we do try to resolve it as quickly as possible. If you look back at the previous posts about this company and machine, you will see that we are regarded as a good company to deal with.
Finally, I would like to thank everyone who has posted positively about the Airflex range over the past couple of years. Although I don’t post on forums normally, I do look in occasionally and your kind words are very much valued and appreciated. We do work hard to look after our customers and it is very rewarding to read so many positive comments about our machines and service.
The Airflex machine has been a labour of love for me. We have dedicated the last 5 years developing a world class range of British extractors that I am very proud of.
Best regards,
Matt
Cleansmart
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A good post , but unnecessary , I think most people on here can tell an angry beaver with an axe to grind ,and ignore as necessary.
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I think it is necessary for Mat to respond, its his livelehood that is threatened.
If it were me and my business i would respond likewise, as they say bad news travels fast. even if it is erroneous as i have said many times before i find the Airflex to be a great machine and the service second to none, when i consider that i did not even buy my machine from Mat, but purchased it off ebay, Mat has been good enough to continue the warranty, send me new upgraded parts to improve performance free of any charge plus advice whenever i have needed it.
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Again, these figures come directly from the manufacturers – this is how long the components are designed to last! If you manage to get thousands of hours use from your vacuum motors and Pumptec pump then you are either very lucky, or maybe doing less machine hours than you imagine you are.
Amen to that brother!
And yes i am very happy with my purchase a year and half on. I would have no doubts in buying another Airflex in the future and the customer service at CleanSmart is great! I really cant imagine Matt losing his cool on the telephone IMO.
Tony
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On a lighter note, dont forget "Sarah" at Cleansmart very professional but likes a laugh and what a voice, whatever you do Mat dont ever let her go :P
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Personally I think Matt deserves a lot of respect. In a very short space of time he has developed a quality cleaning supply company and designed and developed a fantastic range of portable extractors. Designed and built in Britain - not often you hear that in this industry. He has done all of this with the minimum fuss and he has always been a very straightforward and honest guy to deal with.
Sadly their will always be mischief makers on bulletin boards. I do hope that most people can see through the bull**** and the manipulation of facts because it is unfair and plain wrong that Matts efforts are unnecessarily undermined in this way.
Nigel
www.designcare.co.uk
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I agree have had mine for over a year, great machine
and customer service is second to none.
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To anyone thinking about purchasing an AIRFLEX from Cleansmart.
I have had my machine for almost 2 years and have had fantastic performance from the machine and excellent service from the company.
I have had 2 vacs replaced after flooding the motors with foam for an extended period - all my own fault. The company acted extremely quickly in repairing the machine which meant that I had very little downtime.
I have dealt with this company for many years and found them to honest, relable and have acted with great integrity in all my dealings with them. To be influenced by some of the comments I have read would be a mistake.
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I have had the Airflex Pro since June 2010 and have been very happy with it, never let me down.
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This is my first posting on CIU (other than selling a machine) but I must say that the service I received from Matt at Cleantalk was second to none when I purchased my new Airflex.
It aint difficult to see who the troublemaker here is
Nick
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I think all suppliers have problems with equipment/chemicals from time to time its how they deal with it when it happens Matt has remained the ultimate professional