Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Simon Gerrard on February 27, 2011, 09:14:23 am
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In my quest for a second Truck Mount I for got my own mantra, buy British where you can. I'd forgotten about the Pheonix. I know Dave Ingram was involved in developing it but I haven't heard anything else about it until recently so did a bit of digging. I wasn't really considering a new one but given the silly prices the seconhand people are asking, I might consider new.
http://www.phoenixtruckmounts.co.uk/
They seem to have got bigger engines than the one Dave had and they look a bit better too.
Anyone got one or tried one?
Simon
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is it 10995 inc vat if so it's a total bargain
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Will Russell has got one of the new ones maybe worth a call
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That is the phone number for solutions AKA Hydramaster , manufacturing in competition with thier own distributorship? confused? ;)
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That is the phone number for solutions AKA Hydramaster , manufacturing in competition with thier own distributorship? confused? ;)
That isn't "Solution's" phone number any-more J....
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Solutions moved to their own premises 01209 204 343.
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£10,9995.00 including VAT????? Surely not.
Simon
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Seems to have grown bigger then the original. Price will have grown as well, whats been posted here may be the old price.
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I went down to Cornwall in the new year and John in the Warehouse did mention that they had made one for a company I think in Scotland with a bigger spec I believe it was simular to the smaller Titan, that could be worth asking about as it would be greater value for money not sure if it is a water cooled engine.
Shaun
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I bought my first TM way back in the 1980, it was a Prochem 100a with a 16hp engine and a diesel fired burner and cost £7,500 + vat. Now, in 2011 you can buy something way more sophisticated for a mere £11k that can earn its own value in a couple of months with todays prices. What other small business is there that requires such little capital outlay to make so much in return?
Simon
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seen billy russels pheonix at the flood school course last week, very nice. even though his van is a bit gay looking ;D
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I bought my first TM way back in the 1980, it was a Prochem 100a with a 16hp engine and a diesel fired burner and cost £7,500 + vat. Now, in 2011 you can buy something way more sophisticated for a mere £11k that can earn its own value in a couple of months with todays prices. What other small business is there that requires such little capital outlay to make so much in return?
Simon
You've not put much thought behind that comment Simon. I could give you a long list of businesses that require very little or no capital that reap much a better return.
I have a friend who runs an executive recruitment buisness from his shed, YES SHED!!!. He finds employers looking for high end individuals. He head hunts the correct person and asks them if they would like to change jobs (Often for more money) then connects the individual with the vacancy. He takes 19% of the person’s new salary as a finders charge.
In November 2009 he made two phone calls costing about 0.02 pence, he put a surgeon into a new position within another establishment. The surgeons new basic salary was 125 K per annum. He took 19% £23750.00 finders charge. Not bad for two phone calls!!
He will admit that this rarely happens and things are often much more complicated. Its taken him decades of hard work to gain trust from employers.
Matt
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Gas fitters , 2 weeks on the gas safe course , 500 quids worth of tools and they can earn 150k a year , I know they need an apprenticeship to fit heating systems etc but just doing inspections is big business
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seen billy russels pheonix at the flood school course last week, very nice. even though his van is a bit gay looking ;D
Derek your only jealous of my van! You want one with Mavis wrote on the side as well! ;D
Simon,
You've obviously got more experience of truckmounts than i have, so i don't know if i'll be able to answer you're questions but your more than welcome to give me a call
01981 259856
07538 089693
The phoenix has been a fantastic machine and as served me well these last couple of months and earnt me a lot of money, the only thing that annoy's me is why i never bought a truckmount before!
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Matt,
I was making a very generalized point. Not thinking that I might be picked up for not having considered every conceivable endeavor a small business person might get involved in. ;D
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Some people have made lots of cash in our line of work with porty's and cheap staff... "Enterprise" rings a bell :D
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I agree with the comments, but carpet cleaning is different in that it takes many years to get going. Its worth it, if you can hang on in there!
est 1988
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I bought my first TM way back in the 1980, it was a Prochem 100a with a 16hp engine and a diesel fired burner and cost £7,500 + vat. Now, in 2011 you can buy something way more sophisticated for a mere £11k that can earn its own value in a couple of months with todays prices. What other small business is there that requires such little capital outlay to make so much in return?
Simon
A porty run carpet cleaning business :P ;)
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I bought my first TM way back in the 1980, it was a Prochem 100a with a 16hp engine and a diesel fired burner and cost £7,500 + vat. Now, in 2011 you can buy something way more sophisticated for a mere £11k that can earn its own value in a couple of months with todays prices. What other small business is there that requires such little capital outlay to make so much in return?
Simon
A porty run carpet cleaning business :P ;)
And less capital than that?
Why that would be a buffer run carpet cleaning business.
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I bought my first TM way back in the 1980, it was a Prochem 100a with a 16hp engine and a diesel fired burner and cost £7,500 + vat. Now, in 2011 you can buy something way more sophisticated for a mere £11k that can earn its own value in a couple of months with todays prices. What other small business is there that requires such little capital outlay to make so much in return?
Simon
A porty run carpet cleaning business :P ;)
And less capital than that?
Why that would be a buffer run carpet cleaning business.
No wet wonder Foam carpet cleaning business
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My buffer should be here on Tuesday :) Should of been here on Thursday, the guy was using a company that would have brought it up to me for £57. Thought it sounded cheap! They went bust! lol and now the guy had to find another courier company at his expense.
Tony
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Tony
I got a sensei sent from london to glasgow for £14 with tnt try the parcels2go website
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With truck mounts so cheap these days and the earning potential so great, I suppose it begs the question - WHY Not a Truck Mount?
Simon
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With truck mounts so cheap these days and the earning potential so great, I suppose it begs the question - WHY Not a Truck Mount?
Simon
I'm happy with my triple vac thanks :)
To be honest, it's the cost of parts and labour that frighten me off, I've chatted with quite a few Ex-TM owners who pointed this consideration out. Quit recently I had someone ring up asking what I thought of my porty, because they were getting rid of their TM. :o
When the porty goes t-up, they are easy to fix and parts are relatively cheap.
I'm not ruling a TM out in the future though, but now's not the time for me... :'(
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Colin,
I can't remember the last time I had to shell out any significant amount of money on either parts or labour for my TM. The Ex-TM owners you've been speaking to must have had some pretty unusual experiences because the vast majorty of TM'ers would say that maintenance costs pale into insignificants in relation to there massive earning power.
Simon
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i'd agree with simon to be fair! the money i've earnt so far and the amount of work i can fit in now compared to when i had a porty the costs really would pale into significants!
just my penneth worth!
billy
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Colin I have an old steamway 9100lx with close on 6000 hrs and even though it does need more tlc than my previous excellent powerflite machine it gets me more work and i am lucky enough to be close enough to mpms the engineers who cover the hydramster servicing .Regards Alan(swindon)
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I'm hoping they will have one on show at the Cleaning Show at the NEC this week.
Simon
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Simon,
I'm there on weds, if you want to look at the phoenix your more than welcome! Give me a bell 07538 089693
Billy
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Fitted in an hour too.
You can't get quicker than a Pheonix Fitter ;D
Simon
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Simon,
I have a Phoenix over in Mallorca and use it for 600 feet boats and rugs. In the past I had Maxx 470¨s and don´t notice the difference. Also (sorry John) it´s worth speaking to Mr Gotts about the price. He is a big lad and takes a bit of feeding but he knows how to make you feel happy when you leave, so don´t be afraid to haggle. And their service is the best.
Dave
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David,
Don't worry, I've got Mr Gotts under control, I get my Hydramaster Titan 875 from him so he has to look after me or else!!!! ;D ;D
Simon
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Was the Pheonix at the show last week?
Simon
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Nope
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Was Hydramaster at the show????
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Joe,
I don't think they bother with shows anymore - too expensive, they say.
Simon
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John was, sticking A4 flyers up all over of the Pheonix ::)
Tony
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John was, sticking A4 flyers up all over of the Pheonix ::)
Tony
Fair play to him! Cheaper than having a stand! I handed a few of the leaflets out as well! ;D
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Matt,
I was making a very generalized point. Not thinking that I might be picked up for not having considered every conceivable endeavor a small business person might get involved in. ;D
Be honest you just didnt think it through did you, i know a guy who got £50,000 in just a few seconds with only £5 outlay :o
Far more profitable than your silly truckmount, i'm off to get a scratchcard too.
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A fool and his Truck Mount charges less in order to do more.
A clever man and his Porti charges more in order to do less.
Matt
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Well said that man!
Shaun
PS What happens if you charge more and do more with a TM? or charge less and do less with a porti?
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You have to charge more to do less if you have a porti because you can't do a lot with a porti, not in comparison to what you can get done with a TM. Plus, people will pay more for a TM job because (rightly or wrongly) they pereceive that they are getting more for their money.
Hornets nest stirred up - I'm off ;D ;D
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Plus, people will pay more for a TM job because (rightly or wrongly) they pereceive that they are getting more for their money.
What a load of bollox. As there are numerous methods of carpet cleaning and 99% of potential customers refer to getting their carpets cleaned as 'shampooing' and 'steam cleaning' these people wouldn't have a clue what truck mount is anyway.
This is down to the operator to sell their super truckmount in much the same way as those sell LM or granual cleaning will sell theirs.
Hornets nest stirred up - I'm off ;D ;D
You stay just where you are and face the music ;D
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Neil,
We do quite a lot of research into this kind of thing and the Truck Mounted system we use is one of the main reasons why new customers choose us. Like I said, it is the percieved added value that seems to persuade a lot of people.
Simon
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the Truck Mounted system we use is one of the main reasons why new customers choose us.
Ok then, do customers contact you because they are looking for a truckmounter or do they choose to use you because you've told them how much better it is?
When we've got that question answered we'll move on.
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Simon
Does a standard living room really need a t/m to do the business
and what do you do when custys house does not have parking outside
this is not a dig I am thinking about upgrading this year and cant decide
between a triple vac porty or a second hand t/m
cheers ryan
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In over 11 years of cleaning carpets and upholstery, I have never known a customer to know what a truckmount is or what it does, nevermind that it might be any better than the clean i give them with a porty.
Sorry but thats a fact.
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Sorry , but more & more customers recognise TM as being superior.............as said, rightly or wrongly.
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Ryan,
The one huge advantage of a TM is the sheer productivity you get from them, so you can do a lot more jobs in a lot less time, and you can also do much bigger jobs than you can with a porti. That's not to say that porti's are crap, it's just in comparison to a TM they are very limited to what you can get done in a day.
Carpet Dawg,
If you don't have a TM to offer your customers, why would they know what a TM is? so I'm not sure what your point is.
Simon
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Sorry , but more & more customers recognise TM as being superior.............as said, rightly or wrongly.
Has a new client ever rang you and asked if you had a truckmount? or said that they where choosing you over the others cos you have a truckmount?
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Yes I have a few times also they have asked 'are you the one with the machine in the van'
Shaun
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Simon, same what i said to Max carpets.
Also, i speak to my customers about various forms of cleaning (small talk) and alot have heard of dry cleaning, some have heard of ChemDry but I have yet to find someone that knew what a truckmount is.
Of course i dont speak to every single punter about this but my point is that the majority of people just want their carpet cleaned and a cost thats reasonable to them!
A trunkmout is just a "feature" of your business, not a "benefit" to them. Its a benefit to you of course i.e. no filling up buckets, makes your job quicker etc.
Tony
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Carpet Dawg,
Yes. We've just a got a major new client worth £25k who booked us BECAUSE we had a TM and because they were, 'fed up' with people turning up with (his words, not mine) 'Mickey mouse machines.' So yes, we get lots of new business from people looking for a TM system.
Simon
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Yes loads of times. I have been asked do you have the machine in the van? Also the neighbours notice a T/M more. But this can roll on forever.
I have used both, a porty for many years then T/M
Est 1988
Cheers
Justin
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If you don't have a TM to offer your customers, why would they know what a TM is?
I'll answer my own question then. So it's what you tell the customer.
And anyway a TM is only as good as the person using it, I've done enough jobs where the previous guys had used a TMer. So if a TM is the be all and end all ask yourself why customers have given me rave reviews for using a p poor portable, albeit it stays in the van fed from a 250L tank so perhaps they think it's a TM ;D
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Suppose with a truckmount running outside the neighbours will soon know what a tm is ;D
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Tony,
With respect,
A trunkmout is just a "feature" of your business, not a "benefit" to them., to say that is to completely misunderstand what a TM is and what it can do for your business. The Truck Mount is my business, it is the reason we exist, the reason we keep on growing and the reason our customers remain loyal to us because the vast majority, especially those who have used other carpet cleaners, have never seen quality like it, atleast that is what they keep on telling us.
Simon
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I agree with Tony that a TM is only a part of the business, I sell myself and my expertise the TM is part of my expertise.
Shaun
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The problem is with us British folk.
Historically, were a strange bunch who like routine and tradition. Unfortunately Carpet and Upholstery cleaning is still a brand new concept for some. Some people don’t even know that such a business exists.
When it comes to window cleaning on the other hand, as worthless as it may be, customers bend over backwards to have their windows cleaned every month, even though they probably don’t need doing. It’s an historical trend that they have been accustomed to whitest growing up and it is seen as the correct thing to do.
'The Spring Clean'. Another stupid British event that has become tradition.
Morning milk deliveries. Britain is the only country in the world to have milk delivered to the door, the Americans find this hysterical and put it down to our quirky eccentric nature.
British business needs to follow an existing tradition or work bloody hard to market a way or system to the most stubborn population in the world.
Matt
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i dont want to get into a tm vs porty row but my figures state the facts since upgrading to my tm ( only a baby one ) my referrals have doubled in the 12 months and i can now do jobs of a size i would of struggled to do with a porty . I know you can achieve great results with a porty in the correct hands but with a tm you can achieve that result a lot easier in half the time .
question neil have you ever used a truckmount
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So anyway, getting back to OP - who does have a Phoenix unit, and how are you finding it? I think I may go for one and it would be good to get an unbiased opinion?
Regards,
Ash
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question neil have you ever used a truckmount
I've been on someone elses job where I got to use it and I'm not going to dispute it's an impressive tool for heat and suction, although I struggle to see how it's going to make me that much faster on domestic jobs.
When it comes to larger commercial I go with LM anyway which is as quick as anyone with a wand, no matter what machine is behind it.
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A trunkmout is just a "feature" of your business, not a "benefit" to them. Tony
Complete nonsense, and I presume you havent used a TM. The customer certainly does receive a 'benefit' i.e. cleaner carpets and drier carpets ::)
Mark
p.s. Neil, if every TM user says that it is quicker then why do you not believe them?
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Mark, With the right knowledge and chems, an air mover etc etc then comment you made about the carpets being cleaner or drier doesn't stand IMO.
And yes i have used a truckmount, its impressive! Great not having to fill up buckets of water, but i still think its a feature to your business.
I'm hardly going to convice you guys that have spent thousands on a trucky that portys can do a great job at alot less outlay.
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p.s. Neil, if every TM user says that it is quicker then why do you not believe them?
Remember I said domestic properties. There's only so fast you can clean a set of stairs even if you have the most powerful TM.
The trick for non TM users is to be organised. I read earlier about min charge and how it takes 30 minutes to set up. If the customer is organised and ready I can be up and running with the extraction process in 5 minutes.
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I'm hardly going to convice you guys that have spent thousands on a trucky that portys can do a great job at alot less outlay.
Your right, I used top end portys for years and they dont come close 8)
p.s. Neil, if every TM user says that it is quicker then why do you not believe them?
Remember I said domestic properties. There's only so fast you can clean a set of stairs even if you have the most powerful TM.
The trick for non TM users is to be organised. I read earlier about min charge and how it takes 30 minutes to set up. If the customer is organised and ready I can be up and running with the extraction process in 5 minutes.
Domestic - yes! Unless your running van mounted porty of course. But even then the TM is still quicker.
Mark
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Started with a Ninja Good results Got a TM good results made easy and customers do notice and then pass the word on get customers ringing up asking are you the ONE 8) 8) YES I am THE ONE lol
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right i have used two top end portys and even my small tm knock the socks off them both when you go back to using the porty you feel like your using a toy.
neil i agree organisation is the key to being efficient but even so a tm is quicker by far and not being reliant on the properties utilitys is a bonus.
and no you dont have to spend a fortune to invest in a tm my trucky cost me less than a new triple vac and had less than 200 genuine hours on it as hydramaster knew the history of the machine . so was a no brainer . in the last 12 months i can list 12 jobs which i would not of been able to do with a porty with a total income of over 10 k and i ca think of 20 jobs i could not use it due to access prob total revenue from those jobs about 1750 basically if you cant get to it with the trucky its normally smaller job tickets .
basically if you used a truckmount for say 30 days you would i can guarantee it would not go back . Basically i am in this business to make money and i can and will make more with a truckmount than i ever would with any portable PERIOD
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right i have used two top end portys and even my small tm knock the socks off them both when you go back to using the porty you feel like your using a toy.
neil i agree organisation is the key to being efficient but even so a tm is quicker by far and not being reliant on the properties utilitys is a bonus.
and no you dont have to spend a fortune to invest in a tm my trucky cost me less than a new triple vac and had less than 200 genuine hours on it as hydramaster knew the history of the machine . so was a no brainer . in the last 12 months i can list 12 jobs which i would not of been able to do with a porty with a total income of over 10 k and i ca think of 20 jobs i could not use it due to access prob total revenue from those jobs about 1750 basically if you cant get to it with the trucky its normally smaller job tickets .
basically if you used a truckmount for say 30 days you would i can guarantee it would not go back . Basically i am in this business to make money and i can and will make more with a truckmount than i ever would with any portable PERIOD
Yeah yeah, but you never had a proper triple vac, not like the alltec ;) ;D Ask Clinton....
I have a 2 year plan and will look at buying a Titan then, so I can do the Navy ships at Plymouth... If they have any ships left in 2 years that is!!!! :D
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few beers - no one pls ever buy a truckmount - from a guy whos had in excess of 6 t/m - earnt more with a rug doctor but hey that was 20 yrs ago - friday beeer night - tuborg rules !!!!!!!
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la p top and beer dangeroooous like a moooooouse !!!!!!!!!
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Richard has made the perefect point. Forget the cleaning aspects of the argument that always rages whenever the TM v Porti issue crops up and concentrate instead on the business aspect. Truck Mounts are all about productivity, you can do more jobs in less time with a TM and the extra cost is more than met by the additional revenue earning potential. Most of the aruments that come up in these kind of discussions center around cleaning, quality and self esteem, when actually it should be a business arguement. I think the trouble is that a lot of people see themselves as carpet cleaners and not business people and make business decisions from a purely cleaning persepctive rather than a purely business perspective. 'I'm only going to spend £x on a machine because that is all I need,' not realising that that decision affects so many business issues. For instance, if you buy a small machine you cannot do big jobs which means your business cannot create revenue from the commercial sector. If you buy a small machine you cannot do as many jobs as you could if you bought a TM. To me having a machine that gives you the ability to do any size of job in almost any location is one of the keys to success, that and an absolute determination to be successful no matter what it takes.
Simon
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Can I just ask an honest question. Thinking back on the large commercial jobs I had I can't believe anyone could have used a truckmount for over half of them. One a large school over four floors in the middle of Glasgow. Another a TNT office with no chance of getting near due to having to leave space for their lorries. Royal mail offices at the end of corridors, big foot fall and again could not park in front anyway.
I don't get how you guys get to half the bigger jobs. I would have had to use hoses hundreds of feet long for many jobs even if I could get a space where they would not be running over a road.
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Richard has done well in gaining his TM at such an early stage in his business, which he started up about the same as mine. Some people (Derek West) started off with a TM which was a wise move no doubt. I am building up finances to be able to buy a TM in a couple of years or so! However, I have been offered the cash to buy a Titan and decent sized van by the father in law for a share in my business, but I have serious reservations about this. He's not the easiest man to get on with in the world and I can envisage difficult times if I bring him on board. I'd rather do it on my own TBH!
My point is, we get it Simon, but most of us have mortgages, kids and competition who are prepared to undercut on every job you quote on (By half in most cases). Most of us will have a TM at some stage of the business but we will have to be patient, Rome wasn't built in a day.
But, you can still be successful with a Porty. The guy I worked for in Cumbria has an Exel, since 1988 he still uses them and bought mine from me last year when I upgraded to the triple vac. Through carpet cleaning he has bought no fewer than 10 houses of which he rents out and they are all paid for now, by the tennants. So you don't necessarily have to have a TM to make it big.
On the other hand, there have been a few TM owners who have fallen by the wayside and had to sell up, maybe they built up too fast too quick, who knows?
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Cant we have a anolog v digital debate. :'(
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Colin,
You make a very fair and well made point, in particular your point about not having to have a TM in order to be successful.
I think the real problem here is that a lot people see having a TM as a luxury, a prize you will award yourself at some future point and your comment about having a mortage, kids and even competition willing to undercut you seem to reinforce that belief. You could look at it another way and decide that having a TM is essential, precisely because you have a mortgage, kids and competitors. I fact, forget the mortgage and kids aspect and concentrate on the competition because the truth is you can't pay your mortgage or feed your kids unless you deal with your competitors. One of the great advantages of a TM is that it is a fantastic marketing tool, especially when your comptitors don't have one. People (rightly or wrongly) perceive that they will get a better job done and get greater value for money by having their carpet cleaned by this big impressive piece of kit. Whether they are right or not is nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with your ability as a carpet cleaner, but none-the-less people think (rightly or wrongly) that they are getting something extra to what they got last time with the guy with a porti.
It is important to point out that there are very many examples of people with hugely successful carpet cleaning businesses that are based purely on portable machines and I am not trying to belittle them or anyone else by expounding the virtues of TM.
Simon
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When I am asked about truck mounts by customers, I just say "they are very good for customers who have had their electric and water supply cut off" it seems to work and usually gets me the job :)
A good sales person will secure the job, regardless of what he/she uses to clean, the cleaning is the easy part.
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The cleaning is the easy part, it is also the bit you are judged upon and will determine whether or not people use you again in the future or give someone else a try next time around. Don't forget, a customer isn't truly your customer until they come back to you and if they don't come back to you you cannot build a successful business. You have to put your customers in a position where they can't get what you do anywhere else and so have no other choice than to use you in the future. Do that and you'll be in business for a very long time.
Simon
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very true
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Ash
i would be a little cautious as the new model has only been out for a few months and there may be problems that need ironing out. personally i would wait untill somebody has put a few hundred hours on one
jon
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Simon,
Thank you for your reply, I always appreciate you sharing your many years experience. You could so easily sit back and watch these TM/Porty debates and giggle to yourself and not actually say anything. But your input counts for a lot.
If I had the money right here right now, I'd be ordering a TM, it's as simple as that. Owning a TM is a place I'm aiming for and the sooner the better. But I flatly refuse to get anything on credit and would feel a lot happier buying a new/second hand set up with the cash I'd saved.
At the moment things are going from strength to strength. I do take my time to achieve the best I can but I agree that if I could do the job quicker/better, I'd have more time for other aspects of my business like leafleting etc, thus growing my business faster.
One day :)
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Colin,
I don't think my interest is purely from a TM / porty point of view, it just worries me that a lot of people seem to make what they appear to think are business decisions from a purely cleaning point of view and in-so-doing hinder their business from developing which is perhaps why this industry has such a high turnover of people that are here one minute and gone the next.
Simon
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Simon, you have done well in business as have a very few others on here, Colin, keep going you will be there "one day"
I have also done ok in my 8 years of running a cleaning business. But you dont need 20k's worth of tm to earn £500 plus a day, it can be easily done with a £70 henry, a tin of mr sheen and a couple of spray bottles, a good sales person and a bit of hard work and determination.
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Yeah,I am in my 7th year,not been easy,but my quality of life is much improved,and my turnover has increased each year.
I am aiming for a prowler,but I won't bankrupt myself over it.
As I have what people call a brass neck on here
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Simon, you have done well in business as have a very few others on here, Colin, keep going you will be there "one day"
I have also done ok in my 8 years of running a cleaning business. But you dont need 20k's worth of tm to earn £500 plus a day, it can be easily done with a £70 henry, a tin of mr sheen and a couple of spray bottles, a good sales person and a bit of hard work and determination.
Dont think so. A tm enables you to earn more money in the same time than a porty user full stop. Believe me I had all portys before a tm 4 years ago and you can't compete with the prodactivity of a tm compared to a porty no matter how good it is. If you earn such good money using a porty, double it if you buy a tm....
Funny how some people say tm's are no good when they've never owned one or have only used a friends one for a couple of hours. Work with one every day to appreciate how much faster they are.
I didnt really believe it till I bought one!
All the best,
Jason.
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It can only earn you double IF you can get double the work to book in, in the first place.
If you dont have the work coming in..................... it is just a liability.
the secret is knowing when is the correct time to make the commitment, get it wrong and you have a very expesive machine parked on the drive.
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i agree with hector? a truck mount is quick and does a good job but it isn't a ticket to loads of work. if you're not busy with a porty, chances are you won't be busy with a truck mount. it is your sales ability that gets the work in the first place, customers don't care what you turn up with as long as you do a great job,
colin
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Some excellent and well thought out replies there, but still this ever-present notion that a TM is something that you aspire to or that you only get when your diary is full. So I'll throw another controversial, but none-the-less true aspect of this onto the table in order to make a very important and often overlooked point.
Generally speaking (I'm picking my words very carefully) the horror stories that you hear almost everyday about people's last experience of a carpet cleaner are about people withe portable machines, tho I heard one lately about a TM. There must be a lot of them because the stories are everywhere and have been there for all of my 36 years in the industry. The fact is, people don't trust carpet cleaners! This industry has a terrible reputation which may well explain the popularity of Rug Doctors, Vax carpet cleaners and Vanish foam carpet cleaner, people must be thinking, 'I might as well do it myself,.'
People don't want to do it themselves, they just want it done by a professional comapny that will give them great service and a carpet that is super clean and dry in hours - not days. The problem is their perception of what they will actually get is the complete opposite of that and that tars ALL carpet cleaners with the same brush........
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Now, take a look at this:
Now take a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Carpet-Cleaning-Machin
e-Truck-Mount-/220751533402?pt=UK_B_I_Business_for_Sale_CV&hash=item3365d1155a
Imagine a picture of that tm all set up etc on your YP advert, leaflets and website and consider the effect that may have on a sceptical public. Firstly they haven't seen a machine that big before. Second they immediately think that you are a serious player and thirdly that a machine that big will probably do a much better job and because they haven't had their carpet cleaned by that kind of machine they may be more willing to give carpet cleaning another try. That's marketing.
You then do a fantastic job and you have a customer for life that will recommend you to everyone.
All that and the ability to clean hard floor all for £11K, that's peanuts.
Simon
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Very good reasoning Simon, now let me throw another spanner into the system.
Look at the LM way of cleaning carpets, you advertise dry in 1 hour, you turn up with a machine that the customer last saw being used to clean the corridor at the airport or hospital, you do a fantastic job with eco friendly chemicals so that their beloved baby can roll around the floor in less than an hour and not get poisoned by nuclear chems...... You also have a customer for life who will recommend you to all and sundry.
the outlay? £80 for the rotary off ebay.
that to me is marketing and business.
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Hector,
That is also good reasoning.
The trouble is with the best will in the world you simply cannot clean filthy carpet with an LM system (at least not in a reasonable period of time) and so limit your market to and limiting your market in this day and age is in my view madness. Surely the whole idea is to put yourself in a position where you can clean any carpet in any condition in any location and so maximise your earing potential. That said, there are people who do nothing but LM cleaning in office locations but generally speaking most carpet cleaners are look to the broader market for the majority of their work.
Simon
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I agree Simon, I was being devils advocate there.
Although 90% of the cleaning that I do is LM (and no I am not Mr Rogers back here in another format) I do have a CRB for deep agitation and a twin vac porty.
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Simon, you have done well in business as have a very few others on here, Colin, keep going you will be there "one day"
I have also done ok in my 8 years of running a cleaning business. But you dont need 20k's worth of tm to earn £500 plus a day, it can be easily done with a £70 henry, a tin of mr sheen and a couple of spray bottles, a good sales person and a bit of hard work and determination.
Dont think so. A tm enables you to earn more money in the same time than a porty user full stop. Believe me I had all portys before a tm 4 years ago and you can't compete with the prodactivity of a tm compared to a porty no matter how good it is. If you earn such good money using a porty, double it if you buy a tm....
Funny how some people say tm's are no good when they've never owned one or have only used a friends one for a couple of hours. Work with one every day to appreciate how much faster they are.
I didnt really believe it till I bought one!
All the best,
Jason.
I'm not saying I do earn £500 a day just cleaning carpets with a portable, my point was it can be done for very little investment, if a customer doesnt like you they will not use your service no matter what you use to clean carpets, hard floors, windows, general domestic and office cleaning.
Just because someone has a tm it doesnt mean they will do well in business, if a cc wants one and is busy enough to justify buying a tm then fair play to them, but without the other more important aspects of running a business a truck mount will not make you rich.
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I think if you did invest (and it is an investment) in a TM it would focus your mind to getting the work. I upgraded to a triple vac portable and it really renewed my enthusiasm for the job. Not that I was jaded but I was even more keen to explore it's performance. I could of brought a TM but I have several high end hotels worth £1000's every year and a TM was just not viable, being unable to get close enough or when working overnight the noise disturbing guests. I am planning to move to TM cleaning at the end of the summer if my forecasts go to plan which means I have the gear to cover every opportunity, TM, portable, LM or now with the envirodri VLM. I was perfectly content with my twin vac but after testing the triple vac I was impressed. I have no doubt when I start shopping for good used TM I will be equally impressed and will consider the investment well made. I still believe to a large extent it is the operator and technique that clean carpets, but the equipment a cleaner uses can make the job much easier.
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Now, take a look at this:
Now take a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Carpet-Cleaning-Machin
e-Truck-Mount-/220751533402?pt=UK_B_I_Business_for_Sale_CV&hash=item3365d1155a
If I had £11k available I'd drive the 15 miles down to Andover tonight and take it off him.
I don't have £11k and therefore will carry on with the 'truckmounted scorpian' until I can justify spending out that sort of money.
Edit:
Just to clarify. It's not showing a lack of ambition it's just showing a level of caution with the current economy. All I have works and fully paid for and whilst this leaves my credit availability at 10's of thousands I don't want that burden on my back at present.
Now I appreciate I could recover that outlay in just a handful of flood jobs, but on the other hand this part of the country isn't renown for it's rivers bursting it's banks, so that work is somewhat limited.
I know that Simon will say that I'm looking at all the negatives, but over the years I have taken some risks and just about all have paid dividends. The current economic climate pushes that risk factor too far onto the wrong side of the line for me.