Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: NBwcs on February 08, 2011, 08:26:21 pm
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Heard a sad story recently of a window cleaner whos about to pack it all in because hes lost over half his round in Peterborough to an outfit of Eastern Europeans. Apparently their charging £4 per house on the Hampton estate ( Large New estate, with varying sizes of property) no matter what the size. Know a windy who charges £15 for some of these, well £4 is gonna test any custys loyalty. Weve all seen flyers about one time or another offering silly prices, and generally these people never seem to get off the ground but it appears these lads have got their foot in the door. Any of you "posh" boys shed any light on this? Has it been exagerated through chinese whispers or is there any truth to it. Peterboroughs a bit close for comfort for me.
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Wait until the theft rate increases!
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Wait until the theft rate increases!
why will all the uk window cleaners turn to crime when they lose their businesses :o
Get a grip lads there is a guy posting on here from Peterborough that spent saturday canvassing and spent his first day on the windows today so there is work out there for the lads that want it ;) Oh and his user name isn't very Eastern European sounding by the way.
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it was only a matter of time .these guys will do more damage to us genuine windies ,than the dole brigade,
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just wait when the ukranians are allowed here,we will all be f####d
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it was only a matter of time .these guys will do more damage to us genuine windies ,than the dole brigade,
These guy will do damage to the dole brigade ;D
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n the bloody welsh
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Wait until the theft rate increases!
why will all the uk window cleaners turn to crime when they lose their businesses :o
Get a grip lads there is a guy posting on here from Peterborough that spent saturday canvassing and spent his first day on the windows today so there is work out there for the lads that want it ;) Oh and his user name isn't very Eastern European sounding by the way.
There was an outcry recently that these Eastern Europeans in Peterborough were stealing and killing swans, (the Queen's property) for food. They weren't concerned about whether it was legal for them to do that or not - they just did it.
So my comments refer to the home owners that opt for cheap window cleaning - will it be at the cost of their property theft. I'm not saying painting every Eastern European with this paint brush, but a vast amount of crime in this country is done by a small percentage of immigrants.
This comment was not direct toward UK window cleaners losing their jobs turning to crime. Sorry to have misled you.
Spruce.
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Put it this way , if they come down my way im gonna pack in , go on the dole , sponge from the state , strip the name from the van and still go out and work , if the taxman catches me then so be it , and on my day in court i will tell the judge he plays with his dangley bits and that BRITAIN is a sell out nation , hell i may even give him a smack in the chops for good measure and claim insanity , fook em all ! ;D ;D ;D
Rich
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Wait until the theft rate increases!
why will all the uk window cleaners turn to crime when they lose their businesses :o
Get a grip lads there is a guy posting on here from Peterborough that spent saturday canvassing and spent his first day on the windows today so there is work out there for the lads that want it ;) Oh and his user name isn't very Eastern European sounding by the way.
There was an outcry recently that these Eastern Europeans in Peterborough were stealing and killing swans, (the Queen's property) for food. They weren't concerned about whether it was legal for them to do that or not - they just did it.
So my comments refer to the home owners that opt for cheap window cleaning - will it be at the cost of their property theft. I'm not saying painting every Eastern European with this paint brush, but a vast amount of crime in this country is done by a small percentage of immigrants.
This comment was not direct toward UK window cleaners losing their jobs turning to crime. Sorry to have misled you.
Spruce.
Really Spruce?
Where did you hear that?
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Spruce I was being sarcastic, I knew exactly what you were implying ;) I
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My Missus is Polish, I have got acouple of poles from her town working for me (all paye, workers registration etc).
They are hard working and honest but sometimes like to go home at short notice.
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see back in the 80s and 90s us poor scousers used to get it all the time
you bleedin scousers coming down here nicking all our work and nailing our women
well its a whole different ball game now only this time there also nicking the carp out of the lakes for dinner
how can anyone eat carp or pike for Xmas dinner xmas dinner I tells you
the dirrrrrrrrrrty baskets
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Wait until the theft rate increases!
why will all the uk window cleaners turn to crime when they lose their businesses :o
Get a grip lads there is a guy posting on here from Peterborough that spent saturday canvassing and spent his first day on the windows today so there is work out there for the lads that want it ;) Oh and his user name isn't very Eastern European sounding by the way.
There was an outcry recently that these Eastern Europeans in Peterborough were stealing and killing swans, (the Queen's property) for food. They weren't concerned about whether it was legal for them to do that or not - they just did it.
So my comments refer to the home owners that opt for cheap window cleaning - will it be at the cost of their property theft. I'm not saying painting every Eastern European with this paint brush, but a vast amount of crime in this country is done by a small percentage of immigrants.
This comment was not direct toward UK window cleaners losing their jobs turning to crime. Sorry to have misled you.
Spruce.
A mate of mine did that with swans. He`d been hunting them, killing them and then eating them :o.
But he didn`t realise it was illegal and was racked with guilt when I told him. But he vowed never to do it again.
Out of curiosity, I asked him what it tasted like. "A bit like golden eagle", he replied ::).
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see back in the 80s and 90s us poor scousers used to get it all the time
you bleedin scousers coming down here nicking all our work and nailing our women
well its a whole different ball game now only this time there also nicking the carp out of the lakes for dinner
how can anyone eat carp or pike for Xmas dinner xmas dinner I tells you
the dirrrrrrrrrrty baskets
wasn't just you scousers, I got it tight on sites in the late eighty's early ninety's in London, we worked harder for less money just like the scousers, geordies welsh etc and did we get abuse yes we did ::) now it is the turn of the eastern europeans to get the abuse, made a good few mates on them jobs all northern lads right enough :D
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see back in the 80s and 90s us poor scousers used to get it all the time
you bleedin scousers coming down here nicking all our work and nailing our women
well its a whole different ball game now only this time there also nicking the carp out of the lakes for dinner
how can anyone eat carp or pike for Xmas dinner xmas dinner I tells you
the dirrrrrrrrrrty baskets
wasn't just you scousers, I got it tight on sites in the late eighty's early ninety's in London, we worked harder for less money just like the scousers, geordies welsh etc and did we get abuse yes we did ::) now it is the turn of the eastern europeans to get the abuse, made a good few mates on them jobs all northern lads right enough :D
hey Stu.
back in the 90s I finished work one saturday and went straight to the german cruiser with my mate, Liverpool were playing man utd and it was on sky and united beat lpool 3-1
well the abuse I had to put up with from a group of southern softies ( berkshire ) who kept telling me Liverpool were poop and and wont win the league for years to come.
suits me I said cos I'm a damn Evertonian :D
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see back in the 80s and 90s us poor scousers used to get it all the time
you bleedin scousers coming down here nicking all our work and nailing our women
I think it was stealing all our washing and car stereos
well its a whole different ball game now only this time there also nicking the carp out of the lakes for dinner
how can anyone eat carp or pike for Xmas dinner xmas dinner I tells you
the dirrrrrrrrrrty baskets
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No different to national companys undercutting the commercial work.
Nothing seems to be safe now..
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its only the lazy that have anything to worry about regarding Eastern Europeans - just because they work hard doesn't mean they will steal and they will soon realise to put up their prices.
Regarding swans etc - many eastern europeans go hunting when they are back home, so they probably didn't think there was anything wrong in catching what they thought was "wild" birds.
It is amazing how many people are scared of foreigners but let me ask those of you who may remember going to a white mans shop after 6pm in the early 70s before the asians bought them out, you never did and you had to wait for them to reopen the next day. Once the Asians took over the shops were open all hours. What about Curry houses etc we could takethe time to look at the advantages of foreigners coming here rather than just the negative. BE POSITIVE NOT NEGATIVE IT DOESEN'T DO YOU ANY GOOD!
I'm off to work without worrying about what others do - have a nice day and concern yourselves about what you are doing& not what might be!
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I suppose they will be trying to rob everyones vans.
I can't understand why anybody would want foreigners who they don't know anything about or what they have done in the past.
If they are getting them to clean them because they are cheap.they deserve to be robbed.
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If I see any they will have a nasty fall of there ladders
well if you do see any of them falling pff their ladders it will be a stroke of luck, you being a doctor and all that :D
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I suppose they will be trying to rob everyones vans.
I can't understand why anybody would want foreigners who they don't know anything about or what they have done in the past.
If they are getting them to clean them because they are cheap.they deserve to be robbed.
::)
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I think it's great that all the easties have moved to UK.
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they are all the f in same its starts of with car washes popping up here there and every where. Now they do mobile washes in tesco car park's hastling you soon as you get out of your car. Now they started doing windows. I hope they are all trads cos if I see any charging cheap prices, the local A & E will soon be treating more ladder falls.
I wonder if they pay there taxes. I admit there are a few decent one's who do everything above board.
;)
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If they are fiddling benefits, stealing, eating swans or whatever, they should get what they deserve; which is the same as us.
But it`s wrong to presume they are doing these things because they are foreign. If they are offering cheap, competitive labour, legally, there`s not much you can do about it.
I can`t help feeling, the original story has been exaggerated.
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I wonder how much as been added to this story like you say grif. trouble is the foreign one's that are cheating the benifits system is trying to track them down. They have how many diff names and address that it get's to time consuming for the authorities to get hold of them ;)
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UPVC you are very true there. This subject really starts me off. I'm glad iv'e taken a day off today.
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Distinct lack of Peterborough windys on here to shed any light on this, Be good to hear from someone local to it.
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Distinct lack of Peterborough windys on here to shed any light on this, Be good to hear from someone local to it.
I know a couple of wc`ers in Peterborough. I`ll give Jozef and Pavel a shout, to see if they`ve heard anything.
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LMAO :) :) :) :)
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Distinct lack of Peterborough windys on here to shed any light on this, Be good to hear from someone local to it.
I know a couple of wc`ers in Peterborough. I`ll give Jozef and Pavel a shout, to see if they`ve heard anything.
;D ;D ;D
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has anyone actually lost any work to very cheap foreigners?anyone in person that will come on here and tell us?
IT DOESNT HAPPEN THATS WHY!!if you are a good,reliable window cleaner whos been going for a few years there is no way your customers would switch to a guy who is £10 cheaper as its a ridiculously low price and they just wouldnt trust them!!
if you have good customer relations,regular and reliable with sensible prices it simply doesnt happen.
just scaremainering IMO.
as has been already said.JUST CONCENTRATE ON YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND PROVIDE THE BEST SERVICE POSSIBLE!! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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I wonder how much as been added to this story like you say grif. trouble is the foreign one's that are cheating the benifits system is trying to track them down. They have how many diff names and address that it get's to time consuming for the authorities to get hold of them ;)
The reason it takes ages to track people down in the UK is because there are no ID cards. The British people don't want them. Now you have a liberal country. Enjoy your freedom. ;D ;D ;D
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The people from the eastern block, are good people. My partner is Lithuanian.
BUT foreigners take two out of three jobs. That statement its self says it all.
Without talking about the extra strain on our benefit system, schools. Anyone put their name down for a council house lately?
Anyone who thinks its a good thing, needs a check up, from the next up.
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The people from the eastern block, are good people. My partner is Lithuanian.
BUT foreigners take two out of three jobs. That statement its self says it all.
Without talking about the extra strain on our benefit system, schools. Anyone put their name down for a council house lately?
Anyone who thinks its a good thing, needs a check up, from the next up.
[/quote
Thats, check up from the neck up-).
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see back in the 80s and 90s us poor scousers used to get it all the time
you bleedin scousers coming down here nicking all our work and nailing our women
well its a whole different ball game now only this time there also nicking the carp out of the lakes for dinner
how can anyone eat carp or pike for Xmas dinner xmas dinner I tells you
nailing our woman !
i thought all scousers like a bit of back door action
the dirrrrrrrrrrty baskets
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Once the Asians took over the shops were open all hours. What about Curry houses etc we could takethe time to look at the advantages of foreigners coming here rather than just the negative. BE POSITIVE NOT NEGATIVE IT DOESEN'T DO YOU ANY GOOD!
Hang on a minute sunshine, i grew up in central London the British shop owners on our manor weren't allowed to open up after 5.30pm and certainly not on a Sunday the council stopped them. The Jews and the Asian shops were allowed on religious grounds. It was only that the super markets that went to court because they had the backing of the then common market and got the law changed. Darren you are only saying that because you are with a eastern European.
And no I'm not a racist Mass immigration had not helped in my opinion, what it has done is drive down wages, and create racial tension in small places like peterborough as it is a big attraction to them as there is seasonal agrculural work. What i would like to see is eastern Europeans make a go in there own country insted of driving our labour market in to the ground. We are far to tolerate an ethnic rights, and if that makes me a racist so be it.
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they are all the f in same its starts of with car washes popping up here there and every where. Now they do mobile washes in tesco car park's hastling you soon as you get out of your car. Now they started doing windows. I hope they are all trads cos if I see any charging cheap prices, the local A & E will soon be treating more ladder falls.
I wonder if they pay there taxes. I admit there are a few decent one's who do everything above board.
;)
I read somewhere that Tesco had ended the contract due to some people complaining that they were hassled. A bad way of doing business anyway.
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If they are fiddling benefits, stealing, eating swans or whatever, they should get what they deserve;
What's that then? Hiccups?
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Distinct lack of Peterborough windys on here to shed any light on this, Be good to hear from someone local to it.
"I know a couple of wc`ers in Peterborough. I`ll give Jozef and Pavel a shout, to see if they`ve heard anything."
;D
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the problems everywhere and not restricted just the this industry construction is on its knees due to the influx of cheap foreign labour (less than 6 quid a hour for a labourer ) disgusting !! once deductions taken into account and expenses whats that _-less than 4 quid in a mans hand a hour
and the government expect someone to work for that---its ok when you get a dozen poles sharing a caravan for a bullseye a week rent and a loaf and a sausage to eat--they can make it work plus the 600 quid in working tax credits they get sent back home each month for there families back home
theyre laughing at us
thanks very much labour its a mess and the government need to grow some balls and sort it out
but i think its to late
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hi im from peterborough only just started cleaned my first custys today and picked another 3 up today
my son is also a windy and he does hampton in peterborough charges 30 quid for a 3 story and gains 2 or 3 new custys every month .sez he aint seen or heard of any eastern europeans cleaning windows here, at one time they seem to all be plumbers but they do such a crap job because of the low prices they charge that they dont last long anyway
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Once the Asians took over the shops were open all hours. .
Yes, but the shop laws where changed, to be able to open all hours.
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hi im from peterborough only just started cleaned my first custys today and picked another 3 up today
my son is also a windy and he does hampton in peterborough charges 30 quid for a 3 story and gains 2 or 3 new custys every month .sez he aint seen or heard of any eastern europeans cleaning windows here, at one time they seem to all be plumbers but they do such a crap job because of the low prices they charge that they dont last long anyway
At last an unbiased view from a local
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Hi Dean, thanks for replying. Thats good news, gonna try and talk to the bloke who told me about this, he claims to be a mate of the wc in question and try and find out more. Two differing accounts, I prefer yours. £30 :o, nice one.
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"Sorry to argue on my first post on here, but if you lose "half your round" to anyone, you're doing something seriously wrong. Anyone came to my customers asking for £4, they would smell a rat and tell them to get lost. Some I might lose, but half?"
Hi Dave, welcome to the forum. Generally speaking, the impact from the £4/ £5 brigade is fairly limited, they may pinch a few and be an anoyance but they tend to be individuals, and dont really pose any great threat, and as you say, cusys see trough them. The potential danger from the Eastern Europeans is different in that they are very much a close community and just as they have now monopolised the hand car wash business, they have the potential to have a big impact on us. Dont underestimate them, my experience of them is that their work ethic is superb, cheap with them doesnt mean shoddy. Just because weve not been affected too much by cheap prices in the past doesnt mean things cant change. To lose half your business is extreme hence why I asked locals to clarify the situation and hopefully looks like it has been exaggerated. But if is was true and they have been successfull with these sort of prices, then everyones got reason to be concerned.
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Nick, I have been told the same thing by a cleaner from Peterborough, he said they work in gangs of about 10 and just blitz the houses for £5 a time, any house for £5.
I will be in peterborough next week, I have a day there, I will ask my customers if they have had any offers from these people.
I do also bump into other cleaners there regularly, I will ask them if they know anything about it, while I don't work on the Hamptons, I know a couple of the other guys from the Sugar Estate do some work over there.
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Hello Mark, havnt seen you for a while, hope your ok. You might even know the wc in question, dont have a name but he lives in Crowland, which isnt the biggest place in the world and i know you get out that way. Well if their working in gangs of that sort of number,the minimum wage sure isnt being applied.
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Not got a prob with poles this side of P/Boro ( March ) prob just a matter of time
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Hello Mark, havnt seen you for a while, hope your ok. You might even know the wc in question, dont have a name but he lives in Crowland, which isnt the biggest place in the world and i know you get out that way. Well if their working in gangs of that sort of number,the minimum wage sure isnt being applied.
Nick, is he the lad with the maroon mondeo, or maybe now an old white van?
If so, I do know him, but cant remember his name! I will ask him next time I see him, their is another cleaner who lives in Crowland but doesn't do any work in Crowland, I don't see him very often, only when cleaning all his neighbours and he comes home.
I don't think minimum wage comes into things with the poles, come to think of it I very much doubt tax, ni or insurances feature highly on their lists of things to do.
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Now they do mobile washes in tesco car park's hastling you soon as you get out of your car.
Maybe they're operating without Tescos permission? I thought you had to have some sort of waste water permit to allow commercial washing of vehicles due to run off. Tescos customer care desk should be able to sort them for you if they aint legit, and stop them hasseling you if they are.
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Just a bit of an update, i had a word with the bloke who told me ,and whos also his mate.. The wc in question lives in Peterborough( not Crowland) and works predominately in Peterborough and Crowland (sorry Mark). Hes apparently lost £7,000 pa :(, and blames it on Eastern Europeans charging £4 for any size house, lost a lot of his work on Hampton Estate. Thats about £150 a week which is shocking, not to mention a touch concerning. Odd that one bloke should lose so much if others arnt seeing a difference. If he uses this forum at all, then you have my sympathy mate.
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Just a bit of an update, i had a word with the bloke who told me ,and whos also his mate.. The wc in question lives in Peterborough( not Crowland) and works predominately in Peterborough and Crowland (sorry Mark). Hes apparently lost £7,000 pa :(, and blames it on Eastern Europeans charging £4 for any size house, lost a lot of his work on Hampton Estate. Thats about £150 a week which is shocking, not to mention a touch concerning. Odd that one bloke should lose so much if others arnt seeing a difference. If he uses this forum at all, then you have my sympathy mate.
Nick, if it's the bloke I think it is, he would loose work to anyone (I have had plenty of his).
He is rude, arrogant, scruffy, un-reliable and to top that off, a bloody crap window cleaner.
How he has gone for so long is beyond me, and I doubt he is on here as he struggles with spoken words without putting a keyboard in the mix
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This is the sorry state of how the country is getting unfortunately, But I would suggest to anyone who is having problems and losing work through this method is to diversafy. Other custys another service as well or have a ya windows cleaned and I give you 20% of a gutter clean at the same time or something different like a patio clean. I know not everyone will go for it but some will.
Also after 4 cleans give ya loyal custy a bit of a discount on there 5th clean.
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anybody who is losing lots of work is either well overpriced for the area,poor quality work,rude,arrogant with no people skills or all of them!!!
losing lots of work(domestic) simply does not happen if your looking after your business and customers.
dazmond
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Love your comment Rhinoman. Finally a bit of sanity!
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It's not the eastern Europeans Asians chinese or any other foreigner that's at fault.....it's our own government that's to blame look at other countries at the min all over the world that are demonstrating cause of the state of how there countries are and they are winning.we British just put up with the crap the taxes the vat rise after all we are British and take it all with a stiff upper lip.....or is it we like being shafted??
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Working at a house today, over the road the house opposite is having an extension. Two Polish registered builders vans and a Polish registered car blocking up the road.
Now my objection is that those Polish builders won't pay tax on what they are getting paid and will be ultimately taking the money they earn back to Poland. So how is that good for anyone except the Polish Builders?
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that dodge of using a foreign number plated car/van over here should be stopped . i bet millions is being lost in car tax and i bet they arent properly insured or MOTd .
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Lol it's ashame we are not more like the Egyptians in that at least they have the balls to stand up for what they belive,,,yes it might of taken them a mere 30 years but they got rid of the government that was making there lives a misery now we all no us British will take whatever our government throws at us!!!!! It's a fact same as why were no good at haggling lack of balls or is it we care touch what others think???
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Great having a new server for CIU, just wish it wouldn't crash as often as it does!!
Anyway, the Polish builders are allowed to use their cars on Polish plates for 12 months while in an EU country. They can be checked at point of entry for insurance tax MOT etc etc, but who is really bothered to check? If they work in UK and invoice UK residents, and are VAT registered, they MUST pay the collected VAT to HMRC at the end of the year.
Because UK has such a good system of ID and organisation, I'm sure all these checks are carried out. I just wonder why the Poles travelled right through Germany, Holland and Belgium to get to UK to work. The second Language in Poland is Russian, then German.
Maybe because there is better weather in UK.
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If they work in UK and invoice UK residents, and are VAT registered, they MUST pay the collected VAT to HMRC at the end of the year.
They won't be vat registered though, thats the whole point. And Eastern European workers don't have to pay tax on earnings in Britain - legally!
Under EU law they can "nominate" which country they pay their tax. Either the country where the money was earned or the country in which they are domicile. My guess is they quitely ignore both.
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Time go clean some windows!
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Rollover Britain..... All the Poles,Latvians etc come to the UK cos we are to soft on the benifit system. A lot of these countries like Poland, Hungary and the rest of them get handout's from there system of abt £100 to last them a month. No help with rent or council tax or bills.
This is why they make there way here. Cos they get everything for free. What would we get if we went there F--- ALL ah.
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Rollover Britain..... All the Poles,Latvians etc come to the UK cos we are to soft on the benifit system. A lot of these countries like Poland, Hungary and the rest of them get handout's from there system of abt £100 to last them a month. No help with rent or council tax or bills.
This is why they make there way here. Cos they get everything for free. What would we get if we went there F--- ALL ah.
well go to Poland on a fact finding tour and let us all know if you managed to get anything, but like you said if you get damn all you can always move to Peterborough and LIVE THE DREAM :D :D :D :D
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I'm a bit troubled by the nature of some of this talk. It's an emotive issue for sure, but comparing the 'problem' of migrant workers in the UK to the decades of totalitarian rule in Egypt (which was supported and funded by the UK amongst others) is pushing it.
Immigration is not new. This is an Island, so we're all immigrants if you go back far enough. It's been happening throughout the whole history of Britain. Historians estimate that between 15 & 25% of the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic wars was foreign. Have a look at Nelsons column next time your in London and you'll find Black sailors depicted on it doing their duty. Polish, French, Dutch, Indian, and many others flew in the RAF in the Battle of Britain. Go back to any period of Britain's history and you'll find it awash with foreigners.
And the Poles have not Driven through Germany and wherever just to come here. They're all throughout Europe, as are people of all nationalities, including Brits. They and other migrant workers play a vital part in our economy, which is the 7th largest in the world and 2nd largest in Europe behind Germany. We're not doing to badly out of it. If Government policy makes us bit worse off blame the government not the Poles.
One of the largest problems facing the developing world is large western (including British) corporations refusing to pay them their due tax when they are based abroad. Also there are many hundreds of thousands of British workers and ex-pats spread across the globe. In Spain there are huge developments full of Brits who refuse to learn the language or respect their way of doing things. People complain when foreign language provision is made for people in this country. But look at how much signage is in English next time you're in a holiday hot spot. They don't like it either. And just go to Ibiza, Tennerife, The Costa Del Sol, Prague, or countless other destinations and look at how we Brits respect their way of life. They dread the influx of the drunken yobs we export. They have to spend millions on policing, including setting up English speaking units to deal with unruly tourists. We are pricing local populations out of the housing markets and turning communities into ghost towns in many countries by snapping up cheap foreign housing for holiday homes. It's not all one sided.
Sorry to go on, but my mother was born a black British citizen. She was recruited by an NHS mental hospital in the 60's because they were desperately short of nurses. She worked hard in this country and we had to endure so much 'you're over hear stealing our jobs' abuse, I don't like to see people who are taking a legitimate opportunity to be vilified in such a lazy way. Don't be informed by the Daily Mail alone. Sure their are bad eggs, but we have sent plenty of our own abroad to harass foreign communities. We don't have the moral high ground here.
Sorry, I've had way too much coffee, it's raining and I'm getting a bit stir crazy .
Phew!!
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Some good points there. I'm an ex-pat living in Germany. The poles do drive through here to get to UK, or they fly!! The reason for this is, the Germans have a 7 year restriction on eastern europeans living and working here. That's why the country isn't over run with cheap labour that has "Internet" qualifications and driving licences.
I've lived here as a civvie for about 23 or more years. I've seen first hand when the wall fell what can happen to an economy when it's flooded by cheap poorly trained workers.The only reason that the Poles are leaving at the moment is that there is more money to earn in Poland!!!
Because some Poles flew a Spitfire 70 years ago bares no relation to economic problems. Portugal is Britains oldest recorded ali. Shall we invite all of them over for helping us fight the Dutch a few hundred years ago??
Some Brits do go abroad and cause trouble, it's embarrassing to see, but the vast majority of Brits living abroad are not there to use a benefit system or take advantage of a benefit. I know alot of Brits living here in Germany. Not one has a problem learning the language. Without it, you're sunk.
As for the Brits that have swamped northern France, I can imagine that if a village is "Taken over" by Brits, the locals would be unhappy. Yes, Brits are arrogant with regards to language, but we aren't looking for a free ride abroad. Many Poles have been like that here. Many German firms won't employ eastern europeans now.
So that's how I see it. Yes, Brits are all immigrants. There is only so much room though. By the way, Eastern Europeans aren't going to UK because of a strong economy. They can earn AND get state benefits the equate to a months wages in some cases sent by the state to their families in Poland or Latvia.
It's not MY tax.
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I was in no way trying to belittle what is happening in Egypt or any part of the middle east at the min,al am tryin to say is other people have the power balls to make a stand and get changes except us British
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What about the poll tax riots? They were pretty bad. British people don't need a revelution mate, they need a government with enough bottle to make decisions.Look at the decisions you get from Parliment about dangerous dogs!! Remember that patch work of silly regulations?
You live in a liberal country, so expect people from strict undertrodden countries to head for UK where they can live the dream of being a tradesman by simply downloading a polish parking fine and telling the employer that it's Polish city & guilds ;D
There are some strange regulations and documents in Eastern Europe. I've personally seen 3 driving licences with identical numbers. That was back in 2001 when my mate had a few Eastern Europeans trying to drive his trucks. We used to lay bets on how many shunts they would need to get reversed onto a loading bay.
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This country lost it's bottle for standing up for itself after the miners strike what was the governments answer to those lads standing up for thereselves?they answered by basically taking apart british industry
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Well that's got something to do with it.
I saw some plonker on the news saying that the German economy is not good because it's built on exporting produced goods!! God help us ::)
The fact is, UK is so deregulated that it's anything goes as far as cheap labour goes. You have to pay the price one way or another. No regulation means open season for cheap unqualified labour. Hey, no problem really though. About 70 Polish pilots helped us fight ze Gurmuns in the last century. So who's complaining?
(Tongue in cheek) ;)
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Well the majority, actually all the Poles I've personally encountered are here to work and they work hard. The restaurant I'm off to clean today is staffed by Poles, Brazilians and Italians and they work hard. When you say they're here for a free ride, prove it. Where are the stats? And the idea that our economy is being undermined by cheap labor.. prove it.
When you enter into issues like these its easy to get worked up, especially if you feel you've personally suffered. My sympathies go out to anyone who's struggling for whatever reason. But foreigners, reds under the bed and Ze Germans are not the bogey man. Nations in any kind of trouble are always so quick to lay all their troubles at the feet of 'foreign invaders'.
How much benefit was actually lost due to fraud? The latest figures i could find were 2007/8. Turns out it's 0.7% of the welfare budget. http://www.community-links.org/linksuk/?p=37 (http://www.community-links.org/linksuk/?p=37)
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This country lost it's bottle for standing up for itself after the miners strike what was the governments answer to those lads standing up for thereselves?they answered by basically taking apart british industry
The miners`strike was the death knell for the unions.
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Ah, you want quotes from Google. All the Eastern Europeans are here to work hard because that's what the ones that you know do. They are ALL hard workers etc etc.
Your sympathies go out to whatever country is struggling. Is Poland struggling? Now you want to discuss whether the UK economy is being undermined by cheap labour!! Have a look outside your window mate. I don't see the UK economy being copied because it's a success, do you? When I left UK, there was a population of about 54 million. How many more can a country that size sustain?
Why do people head for UK and pass through France, Holland, Belgium or Germany to get there?? Why is that do you think?
I sympathize with your view that we should all link arms and sway, it's just not going to happen any time soon, people are still living there with chips on their shoulders.
So you find the "Stats" to prove what you are spouting. It's these sort of attitudes that urge people to stick their head in the sand and hope it all gets better.
I live as a guest here in Germany. I chose not to become a citizen and therefore I can't vote. My choice. If I don't like it here, I'll leave.I didn't come here as an economic refugee and I don't intend to take advantage of the benefits system here. I work hard and sometimes employ the locals part time.
I despare at the state of my own country. I despare at the way it's people are bullied into not complaining and if they do complain, they are labeled "Racist".
If you just want to get on your soap box and fight the Eastern Europeans corner, then YOU need to prove stats etc, not me. I'm an immigrant too.
Another point you might like to concider is this: If you could earn double what you can earn here in another country, would you go there? Of course you would, and when you got there would you work "hard"? Yes you would. Everyone would think you are a good "hard" worker. Because you are cheaper then the workers from the host country, you reduce the "working wage" of that country by taking less wages. When you leave, you have damaged that "working wage" of that area.
Is that a good situation then? Are you happy with that when it's YOUR area and YOUR wage?
Show me your "Stats" mate. Show me where that works.
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I'm not for linking hands and swaying, I'm just recovering from a case of the squits, so that would get ugly real fast.
I like it when people put the word 'stats' in quotation marks. And the UK model is indeed being copied throughout the world, free market capitalism is the hot ticket right now (we are the 7th richest country in the world by the way!!) Free movement of labor and resources didn't just happen. Globalization isn't a force of nature. It's a product of political decisions in all developed and indeed developing economies on an international scale. All major economies need sources of cheap unskilled labor, all of them. Send them all home and watch businesses go bust and costs for everything rise.We know who's to blame for the current economic crisis.
All I'm saying is find out whats really going on. If you're going to tar an entire community as freeloaders, cheats and fraudsters, make sure you can back that up with cold hard 'facts' :). Making wild accusations is just as much putting your head in the sand as is skipping around with a bunch of pretty flowers believing that everything's fine. I don't advocate either.
It's okay for us tapping at computers, but people really suffer from being unfairly maligned, I know that first hand. And it's no fun.
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I'm not for linking hands and swaying, I'm just recovering from a case of the squits, so that would get ugly real fast.
I like it when people put the word 'stats' in quotation marks.You are the one who wanted "Stats". And the UK model is indeed being copied throughout the world, free market capitalism is the hot ticket right now (we are the 7th richest country in the world by the way!!) Yes, on paper, also the highest personal debt.Free movement of labor and resources didn't just happen. Globalization isn't a force of nature. It's a product of political decisions in all developed and indeed developing economies on an international scale. All major economies need sources of cheap unskilled labor, all of them. Yes, perhaps, but how much and when is it too much? When you have to change the road signs to another language?Send them all home and watch businesses go bust and costs for everything rise.We know who's to blame for the current economic crisis. When did anyone say "Send them all home"?
All I'm saying is find out whats really going on. If you're going to tar an entire community as freeloaders, cheats and fraudsters, make sure you can back that up with cold hard 'facts' :). Who tarred all of "Them" as fraudsters cheats and freeloaders? Making wild accusations is just as much putting your head in the sand as is skipping around with a bunch of pretty flowers believing that everything's fine. I don't advocate either.
Which "Wild acusations" were those?
It's okay for us tapping at computers, but people really suffer from being unfairly maligned, I know that first hand. And it's no fun.So do I. When I first moved here I was treated as a punchy thug who would drink too much and cause trouble. Because that's how Germans saw the Brits, most of them being Squaddies. So I know how it feels.
So, now it's got warmer than minus 8 from this morning, I'll go and get some work done. My prices haven't been effected, so I can still earn a decent level of income. See ya later mate. ;) I really miss UK.
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Its nothing to do with whether they work hard or not.
Its the fact that they will happily work for £4 an hour becuase that amount of money goes a long way in Poland. The ones I've seen, about 10 of them live in a small house to save money, and they send the money they earn straight back to Poland.
British workers cant compete with that purely because we live here and cant afford to work for £4 an hour.
My mate's a bricklayer, and he tried to get hired on one of the olympic village building sites. He was told "Sorry we are only hiring polish workers, they're cheaper".
That is what the problem is, not whether they work hard or not. And dont forget, there is no limit to the amount of "self-employed" eu workers that can come here.
If I was Polish, I'd be over here like a shot. Free healthcare, and the chance to earn WAY more than I could at home. For them its a no-brainer. Our government signed us up to this, its they that are to blame, not the immigrants.