Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Seers on January 30, 2011, 07:23:46 pm
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Hi,
At the moment 95% of our work is commercial, all types of external cleaning.
This year we have decided to develop domestic window cleaning in a big way for the first time. With a budget of £10,000 how would you develop a large domestic round from scratch?
Within 12 months we want two or three vans out day in day out purely on domestic windows and would welcome any help from the guys who have done this.
Options as I see them are for us to either employ our own leaflet and canvasser or outsource to a roundbuilder or buy an established round.
Cheers,
Huw
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£10,000 won't allow you to buy a big enough round in the time you want so I reckon your best bet is build your own canvassing team?
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There is no soft option, forget it thats for the sort of people who buy franchises and believe that because you have paid someone a lot of money its all going to land in your lap.
This is how it works in the real world.
1) you start at the first house in a road, knock on door, "do you want a window cleaner?" yes / no
2) go next door, "do you want a window cleaner? yes/no
3) repeat until you have finished the street
4) go to next street, start again as before.
5) Keep going till you have a round.
No easy way, only one way, the rest is bollox. Winners never quit, quitters never win.
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There is no soft option, forget it thats for the sort of people who buy franchises and believe that because you have paid someone a lot of money its all going to land in your lap.
This is how it works in the real world.
1) you start at the first house in a road, knock on door, "do you want a window cleaner?" yes / no
2) go next door, "do you want a window cleaner? yes/no
3) repeat until you have finished the street
4) go to next street, start again as before.
5) Keep going till you have a round.
No easy way, only one way, the rest is bollox. Winners never quit, quitters never win.
And there endeth that post ;)
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There is no soft option, forget it thats for the sort of people who buy franchises and believe that because you have paid someone a lot of money its all going to land in your lap.
This is how it works in the real world.
1) you start at the first house in a road, knock on door, "do you want a window cleaner?" yes / no
2) go next door, "do you want a window cleaner? yes/no
3) repeat until you have finished the street
4) go to next street, start again as before.
5) Keep going till you have a round.
No easy way, only one way, the rest is bollox. Winners never quit, quitters never win.
And there endeth that post ;)
Yeah, but its what I believe
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Hi,
A full time canvasser(s) is what we are leaning to and as Vince says get them knocking on every door.
Now to find the right type of people...all our commercial work has always come to us so this will be a new challenge.
Cheers,
Huw
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There is no soft option, forget it thats for the sort of people who buy franchises and believe that because you have paid someone a lot of money its all going to land in your lap.
This is how it works in the real world.
1) you start at the first house in a road, knock on door, "do you want a window cleaner?" yes / no
2) go next door, "do you want a window cleaner? yes/no
3) repeat until you have finished the street
4) go to next street, start again as before.
5) Keep going till you have a round.
No easy way, only one way, the rest is bollox. Winners never quit, quitters never win.
And there endeth that post ;)
Yeah, but its what I believe
Me too mate,
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if you have 2 - 3 vans out youll need to be vat registed so will take out 20% of turnover, that said you probably already are if you do lots of commercial,
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Hi,
A full time canvasser(s) is what we are leaning to and as Vince says get them knocking on every door.
Now to find the right type of people...all our commercial work has always come to us so this will be a new challenge.
Cheers,
Huw
Huw
Canvassing is the best option. I have canvassed over 120 customers since the start of 2011!
I have had a few lucky breaks with estates where the window cleaner has been hit and miss with cleans or has disappeared but i have worked hard to build up the round. I should have another 50 or so customers this month but its a tiring process so good luck.
Gary Player a world champion golfer once said "The harder i work the luckier i get"
A great quote from a great guy.....
Good Luck
Daniel Guest
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Hi Huw,
I've always worried that someone like you would come along- a pro outfit.It makes sence that with commercial falling away domestic should be targeted.It's quite humble that you should ask on here, and also quite astute
I think domestic can be a bit harder to manage, and you'll need good people, but if you have that sorted the rest is just strategy.Firstly, think your systems through.If you do any domestic at the moment think through very carefully what you do.Don't launch your product untill you have it right.When you have something in the way of a customer experience to offer give it a go.This is a numbers game as i'm sure you know, but it's also about quality, and if you can drive the quality customers towards yourself as you seem to have done with commercial then things will be more fruitfull.
It should be like your website, frictionless.I don't think you need the 10k budget, you already have a van/vans that can spare one day and later two etc etc, so no cost there.You will need maybe10k leaflets to start this is £200, you will need 5k A6 'proper' customer visit cards £100.(to do this you will have to get seperate bank acc and payment details sorted) And you will need the smarts to know what to put on these and how to present them.You will need to target advertise probably £300-£400 pa.
That's just how i would approach it .Door knocking and the winners never quit stuff does have a place but i never liked doing it so i never went too far down that road.I agree it's not easy and the 20% is a problem for you.
Where can I get 10,000 leaflets for £200 and A6 Cards for £100 ? I am interested in some and these prices look good. Thanks.
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Hi,
VAT is not an issue, that will be factored into the domestic pricing.
What I was trying to get at was that if you had a blank canvass and in hindsight, how would you go about building a substantial round from scratch?
Cheers,
Huw.
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id be suprised if a big company with 2 or 3 vans plus employee wages could get a toehold in the current market . lacking the personal touch is a big no-no
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Hi Bobby,
I would disagree...
I think if someone was to put together a brand and roll it out nationally across the UK subbing the work to local window cleaning companies working on their behalf it would actually be quite easy to establish.
All it would take is some mass marketing and a webstite to catch the enquiries and then push them back out to the subbies...a route we went down before for all kinds of cleaning. It would just need a bit of time and patience to carry out.
Cheers,
Huw
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If that someone was anglian, or tesco, or british gas, or the AA.They would, as i pointed out still need to get their offer sorted out, which is what you need to do.
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huw- be interesting to hear how you get along, and i hope you succeed . i was glad to see your on the opposite side of the country from me as you most likely would cause a bit of a flap , much like tesco do when they open a shop near to the little shops
might take you a decade or more to reach over to the east coast and thats fine by me
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huw if you have the time yaself to canvass i think going out everyday for 6 months you coud easily have enuf of a round for 2 vans as long as ya have workers in place to carryout the cleaning the problem a lot of smaller firms find is canvasing and carrying out the work at the same time its hard to juggle and expand on large scale quickly btu 6 months solid canvassing at reasonable prices shudnt be a problem
richy
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Worrying as it is to the small one bands it is very easy to build a round and I can sense a bit of dread from the replies on here in case all commercial firms start doing it.
I can see more coming to this way of doing business
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« on: May 20, 2010, 11:14:57 PM » Reply with quote Modify message Remove message
With more and more window cleaners losing commercial contracts to the so called big companies, i have noticed and increase on the domestic side of things, and i dont mean your summer crew, dont know about peeps on here but i have been talking to some local cleaners and they have said the same more and more sign written van are popping up everywere,
had a long disscusion with a former builder today as well who does not see himself going back into building and was thinking of starting up window cleaning as he said it seams to be a more secure business and is good for cash flow wich is true!
now the bit that will concern some is the way that the commercial side of things is going with rates being cut and those cleaners who are losing commercial work are looking back to domestics to make this back up, now with what is happening in commercial how long is it going to take before it happens on domestics as well
i mean people have lost jobs and will do anything to earn a living and a lot are turning to window cleaning and dont know how much to price and are doing work for far less than some other cleaners, i know peeps will say they will learn to price right but the builder i was talking to said that he has targeted an area where the houses are normally in the £10 range said his plan is to employ workers pay them £10hr and price those houses at £8 now one man i know does 4 houses a hour so that will be 4x8=£32-£10 for worker leaves him with £22 per each man hr now i know his plan is to have 3 men plus himself working which will give him an hourly rate of £98 and hey it can be done!
Now with so many coming into window cleaning it is going to be hard for newbie startups and i predict some will have to start lowering their prices or lose out, so far my prices have stayed the same but i can see all this price cutting entering into domestics in the very near future!
Agree stu this was a post i did last year!
The warning signs are there!
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There is no soft option, forget it thats for the sort of people who buy franchises and believe that because you have paid someone a lot of money its all going to land in your lap.
This is how it works in the real world.
1) you start at the first house in a road, knock on door, "do you want a window cleaner?" yes / no
2) go next door, "do you want a window cleaner? yes/no
3) repeat until you have finished the street
4) go to next street, start again as before.
5) Keep going till you have a round.
No easy way, only one way, the rest is bollox. Winners never quit, quitters never win.
this is all you need to know.nice one. ;)
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Hi Bobby,
I would disagree...
I think if someone was to put together a brand and roll it out nationally across the UK subbing the work to local window cleaning companies working on their behalf it would actually be quite easy to establish.
All it would take is some mass marketing and a webstite to catch the enquiries and then push them back out to the subbies...a route we went down before for all kinds of cleaning. It would just need a bit of time and patience to carry out.
Cheers,
Huw
shame no one else thought of that.
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Hi Bobby,
I would disagree...
I think if someone was to put together a brand and roll it out nationally across the UK subbing the work to local window cleaning companies working on their behalf it would actually be quite easy to establish.
All it would take is some mass marketing and a webstite to catch the enquiries and then push them back out to the subbies...a route we went down before for all kinds of cleaning. It would just need a bit of time and patience to carry out.
Cheers,
Huw
Totally agree! one that i think would catch on fast is everest!
They already have brand awareness!
You can just picture the ad!
Everest not only do we fit windows we now clean them!
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Hi Bobby,
I would disagree...
I think if someone was to put together a brand and roll it out nationally across the UK subbing the work to local window cleaning companies working on their behalf it would actually be quite easy to establish.
All it would take is some mass marketing and a webstite to catch the enquiries and then push them back out to the subbies...a route we went down before for all kinds of cleaning. It would just need a bit of time and patience to carry out.
Cheers,
Huw
Totally agree! one that i think would catch on fast is everest!
They already have brand awareness!
You can just picture the ad!
Everest not only do we fit windows we now clean them!
You are all forgetting one thing and its a big problem that will become overwhelming if you try and get too big. Customers are not like chickens, you can't just process them like they were on a production line.
People are out at work, they go shopping, to the doctors, etc. Gates these days are locked and high security, you can't just reach over and draw the bolt. Plus there are parking issues and things like schools to deal with. A lot of customers are access through the garage. They like you to come on a certain day etc etc.
If you are not careful you will be sending the vans out and they will be coming back with half the jobs not done. Plus you will be getting a high level of complaints from the ones that have been done because thats the nature of domestic cleaning with crews. People like the personal touch.
And the blokes you have working for you, will you be able to trust them? they will be picking up jobs on the side for cash until it gets to the point that "their" round rivals your round. Its inevetable
It all looks good on paper but once you start to get bigger it all starts to get away from you. It has been thought of before and it has been tried but it has always gone down badly.
Everything has been tried before.
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I agree with Vince domestic most customers prefer to know who will be coming to their property and cleaning the windows. Also some customers are very loyal and you would have to offer a greatly reduced price to what they are currently paying their cleaner to tempt them.
A commercial business such as yours being vat registered etc with associated overheads would surely struggle to be competitive unless you were turning over very high volumes of work in very compact residential areas day in day out.
Im not saying it cant be done just that you may have a few more obstacles to overcome first.
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Huw 10k won't get you very far mate
You have to allow for all the drop offs you'll get when canvassing up doms. I have spend near on 25k i think in 2-3 years and that has got me near on 2 full vans. Actually i think i could of spent more on canvassing.
I don't care what anyone else will tell you about the retention you get from canvassing customers. If you keep hold of 50% of your canvassed work after 12-18 months then thats about your maximum.
You then need to look at your quality control. How you can manage all the customers accounts etc. Male sure your staff are doing it properly etc
If you want to chat on the phone at some point i wouldn't mind. Maybe i can pick your brain on the commercial side to :)
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Hi Bobby,
I would disagree...
I think if someone was to put together a brand and roll it out nationally across the UK subbing the work to local window cleaning companies working on their behalf it would actually be quite easy to establish.
All it would take is some mass marketing and a webstite to catch the enquiries and then push them back out to the subbies...a route we went down before for all kinds of cleaning. It would just need a bit of time and patience to carry out.
Cheers,
Huw
Totally agree! one that i think would catch on fast is everest!
They already have brand awareness!
You can just picture the ad!
Everest not only do we fit windows we now clean them!
You are all forgetting one thing and its a big problem that will become overwhelming if you try and get too big. Customers are not like chickens, you can't just process them like they were on a production line.
People are out at work, they go shopping, to the doctors, etc. Gates these days are locked and high security, you can't just reach over and draw the bolt. Plus there are parking issues and things like schools to deal with. A lot of customers are access through the garage. They like you to come on a certain day etc etc.
If you are not careful you will be sending the vans out and they will be coming back with half the jobs not done. Plus you will be getting a high level of complaints from the ones that have been done because thats the nature of domestic cleaning with crews. People like the personal touch.
And the blokes you have working for you, will you be able to trust them? they will be picking up jobs on the side for cash until it gets to the point that "their" round rivals your round. Its inevetable
It all looks good on paper but once you start to get bigger it all starts to get away from you. It has been thought of before and it has been tried but it has always gone down badly.
Everything has been tried before.
I disagree. You do get more problems but there are ways and means of monitoring whats going on. Sometimes you do need to give people trust. If you look after them they tend to look after you.
You do need to tread with caution though.
In my experience you will never please people all the time so you just keep mvoing on. Its a process of elimination.
You will always get issues where by not everything gets done but to say half the jobs won't get done is just not true. I factor in that 10% of things won't get cleaned over the course of the month. this 10% is normally filled up with extras like gutter jobs etc.
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steve im glad you have said you only keep 50% of canvassed work i was begining to get a little paranoid thinkin poeple dont like my company or arent happy with results but that ties in to around same amount iv lost from canvassed work, i find people i have got on myself tend to stick around more than ones the canvasser i have used got on
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I went through the same motions Richy.
It didn't help with the canvassing company i was using telling me that the rate of cancellation was high so it made me more paranoid that it was us. I've had so many customers that lie i tend to now just take things at face value.
I haven't canvassed houses now for over 12 months as i wanted things to settle down as i were getting a lot of hassle from having so many new customers. everything has now settled and i'm going for another big push in a few months (i must love the punishment ;D)
After getting up to customer number 2400 on wcp i think i'm experienced enough to know the motions of how things go. if you want to be big you just need to constantly canvass but at the same time make sure your house is in order with dealing with issues because they WILL come even when the cleans are faultless.
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u wont get 2/3 vans out a day on domestic in 12 months.
get real.
youd be lucky to get 100 good custies with a big push in 12 months on domestic, thats if you did not buy or sub..
even then youd wouldn get the ammount for 3 vans worth.
i have 1 other with me 3 days a week, my rounds are 50/50 with..... dom and com.....
i tout for work all the time i pick 2 to 3 up every 3 to 4 weeks over the year thats only 30 35 ish if they all stay with you..
its quality that counts not numbers, at least in my book anyway,
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u wont get 2/3 vans out a day on domestic in 12 months.
get real.
youd be lucky to get 100 good custies with a big push in 12 months on domestic, thats if you did not buy or sub..
even then youd wouldn get the ammount for 3 vans worth.
i have 1 other with me 3 days a week, my rounds are 50/50 with..... dom and com.....
i tout for work all the time i pick 2 to 3 up every 3 to 4 weeks over the year thats only 30 35 ish if they all stay with you..
its quality that counts not numbers, at least in my book anyway,
i had a canvasser that worked on his own getting me about 100 customers a month
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sure u did mate.
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cor blimey what is up with people today ;)
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steve cm , exactly my experience with canvassed work , retention is about 50 to 60% after 12 months and a reasonably good canvasser will easily get you 100 new custies a month regards alan
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u might get a 100 leads, but u wont get 100 solid paying reg custies, other wise people would be millionaires very quickly..
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you will get 100 solid customers on a 3 month contract a month with a good canvasser. i didn't really look at number of customers more the value of the work
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whats the point fo a 3 month contract, thats ridiculous.
ther's no way on earth someone will knock doors and get 100 soild custies a month, if so, we would all down tools for a month and do just that..
some people on here need life check i got to be honest.
iv taken a whole day off beforre now and went knocking for 9 hours ..... i got 18 people out of that 12 stayed for a while, 6 went 8 weekls i now have 6 left, nothing to do with my work, just dnt want it every month.
and on times not all have it done when they should..it certainly wouldn work with a canvaser and most people want to see the window cleaner them selfs at that time
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VINCE GREEN GIVE THAT MAN CIGAR...
THATS WAS SED PERFECT
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15 hrs a week = 60 a month @ tops yea??????
and that = 12 and half k yea...
not bad for a month's work er.... of course we all beleive you
if thats true u would bin your round and do the 60 hrs ur self and get 12.6...
omfg zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Despite some niggles with each other some really good sence has been posted.As was said even with perfect faultless cleans issues emerge and 'churn' (another way of saying customer retention)typically runs at 20%.People move, die, divorce, decide to do it themselves,etc.
I'm a one man band and find it hard to juggle things, but i don't think canvassing is the only way, or even the best way.
This post got side tracked from building a round from scratch, to being a national brand. I remember one company on here said at one point several years ago they had 27,000 domestic accounts, but even that would only give you a good presence in a couple of towns.If tesco (or similar took it on then the numbers would be well into the hundreds of thousands).
The people above(steve cm richy wilts) have sorted their offer out, and this is the first thing sears needs to do.They need to walk before they can run.As they are already a succcesfull biz they obviously feel this is already sorted.I don't think it is for a minute.
Start from the begining.
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I am have recently hired a guy from east Europe.
He had a friend that needed a job, I said - okey, lets give him a try.
I will give him a HTC desire, and have a GPS tracker that sends me updates every 121 seconds where he is(my wc employee also have this). Will pay him after how many flyers that he delivers.
I will have a secretary that will take care of all the cust handling at a fast an proper way.
Live in a "small" place, and will give this a try.
100K flyers
Hope for a new 500 regular domestic.
I say no for one clean.
Anything over that is just a bonus.
Or, as long as he gets us more cust then what the first cleans cost - I think its a win.
As someone said here on this forum that I liked was that - if some one calls after seeing the flyer or they go to your web page contact form, they usually really want it, and you could put the price at a nice level.
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I am have recently hired a guy from east Europe.
He had a friend that needed a job, I said - okey, lets give him a try.
I will give him a HTC desire, and have a GPS tracker that sends me updates every 121 seconds where he is(my wc employee also have this). Will pay him after how many flyers that he delivers.
I will have a secretary that will take care of all the cust handling at a fast an proper way.
Live in a "small" place, and will give this a try.
100K flyers
Hope for a new 500 regular domestic.
I say no for one clean.
Anything over that is just a bonus.
Or, as long as he gets us more cust then what the first cleans cost - I think its a win.
As someone said here on this forum that I liked was that - if some one calls after seeing the flyer or they go to your web page contact form, they usually really want it, and you could put the price at a nice level.
i like the idea of the htc desire. could you tell me more about that please? how do you track with it?
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100 customers a month via canvassing is very possible?? I have far exceeded that this month alone but then reality strikes and you have to also care and deliver the service too. Yes we'd all be loaded if we continued adding new customers at that rate but for me personally canvassing full time is impossible even with a full time fella.
I think theres a big difference in the owner of the firm canvassing face to face than a canvasser who is only motivated by money and not developing a quality customer base.
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complete load of tosh...
iv heard some kak in my time
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Hi,
I never thought this post would cause so much strife.
Steve CM - I will try and give you a call tomorrow, cheers.
Slumpbuster - I have no intention of trying to monopolise domestic window across the UK. My original post was to try and get some help on building a large round, quickly, in our local area, South Wales, to supplement our income from commercial works.
However, I do think that if someone was to build a national brand for domestic window cleaning and sub the work to local firms it would work. Quality of work shouldn't suffer. If a local company in a particular area lets the side down you find another firm. We sub work from national accounts, not just in cleaning, and the last thing I would want to do is shoot myself bin the foot by delivering a poor service. Managed well this type of work can be very lucrative.
You have the advantage of being nationally recognised to win work, but have the freedom to deliver a quality service locally. Food for thought.
Cheers,
Huw.
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I am have recently hired a guy from east Europe.
He had a friend that needed a job, I said - okey, lets give him a try.
I will give him a HTC desire, and have a GPS tracker that sends me updates every 121 seconds where he is(my wc employee also have this). Will pay him after how many flyers that he delivers.
I will have a secretary that will take care of all the cust handling at a fast an proper way.
Live in a "small" place, and will give this a try.
100K flyers
Hope for a new 500 regular domestic.
I say no for one clean.
Anything over that is just a bonus.
Or, as long as he gets us more cust then what the first cleans cost - I think its a win.
As someone said here on this forum that I liked was that - if some one calls after seeing the flyer or they go to your web page contact form, they usually really want it, and you could put the price at a nice level.
i like the idea of the htc desire. could you tell me more about that please? how do you track with it?
You have a unlimited plan for data for your cell, register the phone on www.instamapper.com
Its free, and easy to put up. You can check all the time where your employees are.
If you work at a office, and you are a manager - you will have a full overview.
But when you got people all over the place, you can not see where and what they are doing.
Easy solution - GPS tracker.
You pay them, you make the rules.
;)
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in addition to all this,and yes ther's plenty of glass out there, but you'll be supprised at how many window cleaners there are, even mondeo man will have a large round and there's plenty of them about with solid custies who wont even look twice at big brand fish companys trying to take over
ul fail in the first month, south wales u say, where abouts, i thought the welsh were very loyal in staying with what they got