Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DeLuce on January 16, 2011, 02:06:35 pm
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Hello
I am The Wife. Can you help me so that my husband stops stomping around between the house and the van cursing under his breath please?
The varistream keeps kicking the pump off because there's air getting into the pump. (my diagnosis, and Im quite confident Im right!)
And having replaced the hoses from the tank to the pump, the only place left is the strainer. I can sometimes see air bubbling in it.
I have removed the ptfe tape and put it back on...quite a few times ::) ...but it's one of those strainers that you tighten directly onto the pump and Im scared of ripping the thread by over tightening it.
Does anyone know if the strainer has to end up in the downward position?
If so, how do you manage that?
Is it supposed to have a washer?
Should I use ptfe or not?
Or should I replace the strainer with a 'swivel strainer' that tightens with a nut onto the pump instead?
Thank you. You might save my sanity and my marriage.
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by pass strainer put suction side pipe direct to pump if this works then the strainer thread 1s worn go to local caravan
dealers they sell strainers for around £6.00 with the wing nut
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Strainer glass lid should be in downward position
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Just for the sake of diagnosis,.. remove the strainer all together and see if you have the same issue.
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It's a brand new pump and strainer so theoretically the thread shouldn't be worn.
How do you tighten it up ensuring the glass is at the bottom? I havent managed that yet!
I will have a go at bypassing the strainer.
Meanwhile, I think that the problem may be that the as I tighten the wing nut to the hose/strainer end, it pulls the opposite way to the thread on the strainer/pump end, so undoes it.
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Always have my glass on the top, usually has an air bubble in it but have no problems. Check all the connectors and try to get rid of any hozelock connections if you can - they don't work well without pressure. Get your pump and strainer as low as you can and make sure the tank has a vent. Ptfe all threaded parts.
When you say the pump is kicking off can you explain more?
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When fault finding on a wfp system I find it best to work backwards starting with the pole end.
So for example if you have air in the system, leaks or blockages disconnect the pole hose and run the system. If its still playing up disconnect hosereel and so on, this way you should be able to eliminate certain components and find where the problem lies.
All connections threaded and jubilee clip or whatever should be as tight as you can get them to prevent leaks and air entering the system.
Also Hydrophyl make a good point of making sure the tank is vented otherwise you will have air in the water tank that is getting into your system.
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Hi
When we started windowing cleaning 5 years ago, we inherited a Shurflo pump and screw on filter.
In those days the pump was fitted with the pump mechanism at the top and the motor at the bottom. With the motor fitted in this position the filter was correctly positioned.
When Shurflo decided that it was better to turn the pump around so the motor was at the top this became a problem with the filter as it was upside down and didn't look right. However we used the pump in that configuration for months before it got on my nerves so much that I brought one from Shurflo that could be tightened in any position.
I have found that these filters do need an extra tightening 'nip up' to stop leaks - just a bit. I have never tried to lubricate the thread with a thin film of Vaseline or something like that, but this may help. There is also a seal at the top of the glass container. Is this still in good condition, or has it been damaged.
So, in our experience you can work quite happily with the filter upside down. It will just make a mess when you unscrew the filter to clean it.
I include a picture of my son's van with the aforesaid filter. You can see the orange seal/gasket on the bottom of the filter bowl.
I see no reason to use ptfe tape on the coupling that attaches the inlet hose to the filter. The hose coupling and the filter should have mating surfaces that will seal themselves. Could the tape be the cause of the airleaks?
Air getting into the system can only be from somewhere between the tank and the pump. Everything after the pump will show up as a water leak.
Oh! We also stopped using jubilee clips to tighten the hoses onto the couplings as they cause airleaks if they aren't the right size. We now use double eared 'o' clips very successfully. As you can see the pump is quite high up, virtually at the top of the tank and we don't suffer from air leaks.
Spruce
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Yellow gasket? What yellow gasket? :o There isnt one on mine! Maybe that's part of the problem. But Ive looked at the picture on the cleaning spot web site and I cant see one on the screw on model.
Anyway, Ive bypassed the strainer now, also tightened up the screws on the head of the pump, checked all the jubilee clips, checked the tank vent... and the varistream is switching off the pump and flashing P.
I can get a fairly continuous flow by changing the settings to B or D on No.4 only but it wont work on the factory setting of C at all. It thinks it has reached the right pressure and switches off the pump.
I understand that you have to adjust the settings to suit your system, but it worked fine for 5 houses and then started playing up. So I dont understand why.
Thank you for your help so far. Hope you can help me solve this right to the end.
By the way it's a shurflo 5l/min with digital Varistream and 100m microbore.
Thank you.
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Hi Spruce,
Good idea to keep pump etc in the cabin rather than back.
In the past I was told to keep pump positioned as low as possible to avoid airlocks and once done, I had no more airlock problems.
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What a difference a bit of daylight makes.
I can see that there is a gasket on the strainer. Its a muddy green colour. Couldnt see it last night tired and grumpy with an LED head torch! The strainer is tight in a very nearly upward position and it doesnt fill up with water at all, there's just a bit visible in the bowl.
Ive tried ALL your suggestions, and it seems to be running ok now (done 2 houses.) In a multitude of many councellors there is wisdom! Thank you.
Strangely the jubilee clips seemed be loose this morning despite being tightened last night. I'll replace them with double eared O rings as soon as I can. Good idea, thank you.
The other thing that seems to have helped is taking off a second feed. After the pump we had a T piece to split off the hose, one to the back of the van and one to the side door. At the end of the unused one we had a hoselock deadstop. I would have thought that if is was faulty, since it was after the pump, the water would have leaked out at pressure rather that sucking air in, but then again Physics was not my strong point.
Thank you again for helping. We were just getting to the stage of wondering whether to get the ladders back on the roofrack...
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Aaaaaagggghhhh.
Stupid stupid water fed pole system. Whose idea was this?
Cant get a constant flow.
Went back to one of your ideas, which was to work backwards through the system, and it seems to be the pole hose that's the problem. Works ok up to there now. Its a CLX 18 pole and I had thought that the brush/gooseneck was crimping the pole hose by being too tight onto the top of the pole. So we took the brush off... and it still didnt work.
Its a microbore hose so 6mm internal diameter. Could it be a problem if the internal diameter of the pole hose was a tiny bit bigger? 6.5mm maybe?
Please try and help us solve this.
All rational ideas will be considered. Im cold. Got wet feet. Cheesed off. No income.
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You need to tell us exactly what's happening. Is your equipment brand new?
Is the pump running constantly but no water coming out? Is the pump stopping? Does it pump water without the hosereel etc etc? Are you using a controller (varistream) are you using any pole valves or triggers? Have you got an on off valve on the tank outlet before the pump?
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If you have flow but it's not constant it could be a minor adjustment to the pressure setting that is required.
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From the top: Everthing brand spanking new
500litre vented tank in van.
Tank plug/elbow with 1/2" barb.
1/2" hose (with jublilee clip) to...1/2" inline tap to...1/2" hose (with jubilee clip)
to shurflo strainer
to shurflo pump (wired to digital Varistream connected to 115ah leisure battery, fully charged)
to 100m microbore (6mm)
Up to here it seems to work ok.
Then via rectus21 fittings to 2metres of pole hose
Still ok to there!!
Then to a flow control valve from pure freedom. Its just a 1/2" ball valve, quarter turn, but they have cleverly added a bracket to it so it clamps to the pole.
Now if I attach the pole hose with the flow control valve it doesnt work.
But if I attach the pole hose without the valve, IT STILL DOESNT DAMN WORK!
The pole hose is Gardiner 8mm diameter (6mm internal).
Yes I have tried all the varistream setting known to man.
The annoying thing is that it did 2 houses this morning without a hitch and then when
we moved on to the next house down the road it started playing up.
The pump runs and then keeps reaching pressure and switching off. And then when it decides to run again its slow to respond with a decent flow... and the it drops off again. :'(
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Have you tried turning the varistream pressure up (not the flow setting)? Have you disconnected the pumps pressure switch? (you shouldn't use it with a varistream)
If it's a digital controller you need to push in and hold both buttons until you get the digit showing pressure press both again to get it flashing. Release the buttons then push the + button to get a higher pressure setting. Then switch off and back on again
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Yes disconnected the pump pressure switch when I wired it up.
Yes have tried increasing the pressure. Have tried right from, was it E at the top? down through D C B A then the numbers lower.
And have tried all the various flow rates 1-9 on each.
I wouldnt be so bewildered if it had never worked. But doing a couple of houses and then going funny is driving be mad.
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hmmm when you open the pole valve with the pole collapsed, water starts pumping and you can hear the pump running continuously? When you extend the pole to full height can you hear the pump still running or does it stop and start?
Forgot to ask have you a di vessel before the pump?
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You have said that when you disconnected the pole hose everything was working ok and water was flowing through I take it.
Now when you connect the pole hose back up without extending the poles length is water coming out of the jets ok and at its usual pressure?
Or are you saying the pressure is reduced only when the pole is extended to do top windows?
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It stops flowing smoothly when the pole hose is connected and the pole collapsed (and collecting the water in a bucket so I can recycle it).
I connect the pole hose and open the pole valve, the pump kicks in, and then P flashes and the pump stops.
Then it runs again for a 3 or 4 seconds then the flow dribbles away and P starts flashing again. Then it runs again for 3 or 4 seconds then...repeat to fade..
When I disconnect the pole hose, the flow is fairly constant and I can alter the Varistream up or down with no ill effects.
DI is in the shed with the RO.
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Sounds like the pressure setting just needs to be increased ???
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Im gonna put my neck on the line here and say its your battery.
Try giving it a slow charge with a decent 8 amp charger for minimum 12 hours.
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Thought it might be the battery too coz Id heard that varistreams are quite voltage sensitive, so charged it up with a smart charger at 8amp for most of a day until it read 100%.
Just tested it again and it's still 100%.
Ive got quick release leisure terminal clamps on it to ensure a good connection.
Could it be that the feed from the battery to the Varistream is not big enough to draw the amps through? Its got 1mm 17/18 amps on it now, urm, I think.
Tomorrow Im getting some more O clips for the pole hose/valve connection, to be sure that's not leaking.
And I'm going to try the water through the pole hose without the gooseneck in case it's pinching the pole hose up at the top.
But before then I need some sleep. And a good drink. Thank you
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I know you must be getting peed off with it now but im sure you will get to the bottom of the problem.
From what you have described it sounds to me as if theres not enough power in the system to maintain a constant pressure.
That could be due to the varistream setting, bad electrical connection or low battery power.
All cables should be a minimum 10 amp rating.
If water is coming through it cannot be a blockage in the system.
And if it works ok and then gradually gets worse I would think its because of one of the above.
You could try swapping the leisure battery with a good car battery as a temporary measure and see if you notice a difference in performance.
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When I closed my eyes last night I could still see a spaghetti of hazard yellow pole hose burned into my retina. :o
Thank you for the reassuring words in your last post...it gave me hope!
This morning I redid the connections from the battery to the Varistream. (It's 1.5mm multistrand by the way not 1mm as I thought before.) Just trying to eliminate any causes that end. Well, you never know. Battery still 100%.
We tested it out again as far as the valve - OK
Tested through the valve - OK
Connected the pole hose - Bit tempremental
Hmm has it got a kink in it I wondered.
So tried it through 10m of new pole hose Id got for spare - Bit tempremantal again.
So it seems to go through 100m of microbore internal diameter 6mm without a hitch and then meets resistance in a few piddly extra metres of brand new pole hose which has outside diameter 8mm / internal 6mm. ???
Managed to get a fairly constant flow by increasing the pressure to E and lowering the flow to 3. Not a great rinse, but 4 had too much splashback.
At that rate the pump was running very quietly so there might be an advantage in that its unlikely to ever overheat.
Cant test it out properly and actually earn any money because with all this checking/undoing/redoing I have now run out of O clips. Not going back to jubilees now!
Tomorrow the new clips should arrive. And should I live that long, I will let you know how it goes.
Thank you.
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Just thought of something else, if you use a Gardiners supplied angle adapter that has been drilled for the hose. Check that it's not squashing down when you screw the adapter on. Mine was for two years before I realised - just drill the hole bigger and further away from the threaded bit so that when all screwed tight you can still pull the hose back and forth.
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Just been reading through all the posts and no one has mentioned this so I'll just throw it in. Have you checked the female Rectus connector that you plug the pole hose into? I recently had an identical problem to what you're described (worked fine for some houses and then the Varistream started having tantrums) and it turned out that some resin had got into the hose and had jammed up the connector. I couldn't see it until I took the connector out of the hose. Once I cleaned it out (a one minute job with some water) all was well.
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Thanks for all the help, gettin' there, we can use the system now albeit on one setting. Will check that tommorow Craig, cheers ;)
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Ha! Could you tell that the boss wrote that last post? What's with all the missin' letters off the end of the verbs? Huh?!
Yes I think you're right, the neck does need drilling out a bit more. Will get onto that pronto.
Thank you for all your help. Especially for the optimism that we would eventually solve these problems.
We have now earned 65quid! Woo! 8)
Since the system is working at the moment, it's a case of If it aint broke... But it would be nice to be able to use some of the other settings, but hey ho, it runs.
I have got some more O clips on order. They definitely make a better seal.
So thanks once again.
Hope you will still be there for our next crisis of confidence!
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My Varistream digital is temperature sensitive. I have to increase the cut off pressure when it's near to freezing as the water gets thicker.
So you have checked through everything, and it works OK until it reaches the pole hose, You know it's not blocked as it sometimes works OK.
It all comes back to the varistream settings.
Varistreams can go wrong, and Williamses won't take any responsibility if you are using microbore hose
100 meters of microbore coiled on a reel offers a hell of a lot of friction, it slows the flow of water as it presses against the sides of the hose, think of the pressure on your side as you go down a helter skelter, you would go a lot faster if it was a straight slide.
Varistreams were never designed for microbore hose, I use it but only have 30 meters on my trolley hose reel. I bet your system would run on a much lower pressure setting if all your hose was pulled out in a straight line.
Maybe your solution is to use 8mm mini bore hose, or have a smaller reel for doing the jobs that arent to far from the van.
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My Varistream digital is temperature sensitive. I have to increase the cut off pressure when it's near to freezing as the water gets thicker.
So you have checked through everything, and it works OK until it reaches the pole hose, You know it's not blocked as it sometimes works OK.
It all comes back to the varistream settings.
Varistreams can go wrong, and Williamses won't take any responsibility if you are using microbore hose
100 meters of microbore coiled on a reel offers a hell of a lot of friction, it slows the flow of water as it presses against the sides of the hose, think of the pressure on your side as you go down a helter skelter, you would go a lot faster if it was a straight slide.
Varistreams were never designed for microbore hose, I use it but only have 30 meters on my trolley hose reel. I bet your system would run on a much lower pressure setting if all your hose was pulled out in a straight line.
Maybe your solution is to use 8mm mini bore hose, or have a smaller reel for doing the jobs that arent to far from the van.
Hi Dai,
I think that this is the problem. Hydrophyl also mentioned it earlier. There is no mention of spluttering at the brush head with air being pumped out. As they turn the flow right down to problem goes away. I have had to raise my cut-off pressure on my digital varistream this winter as well.
We have been using Shurflo pumps and Varistreams from Williamson's with minibore hose since the beginning and haven't had the slightest issue with pumps. If the pump stops working the battery is usually the suspect.
Spruce