Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: robert meldrum on January 13, 2011, 10:52:15 pm
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Following Matt's post which was somewhat negative about the current c/c market but was stating some unwelcome truths it might be worthwhile considering additional services you could be offering.
At least one of the best known ( on here ) suppliers of leather cleaning /maintenance products has a similar range of products for " wooden furniture care "and may be worth approaching with a view to training or for an opinion.
A few on here - notably Colin Day - have been active in oven cleaning which helps to keep the cash flowing.
Refinishing wood seems a logical add on to carpet and upholstery cleaning and I'm sure is a satisfying and rewarding alternative to wanding
Worth thinking about ??????????
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Think you are right there Robert.
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This is another thing that is worrying me.
If I had a pound for everytime I've seen a carpet cleaner mention diversifying (particularly into oven cleaning) over the past few months my wallet would be weighing me down a bit by now.
Everyone has the same idea and will ultimately have the same problem.
The guy who came to buy my machine today was a window cleaner looking to diversify into carpet cleaning. This at the same time that carpet cleaners are looking to diversify into other types of cleaning including window cleaning.
There ain't enough to go around and I can see a few people coming out of this very badly.
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There WILL be casualties Matt, but some of us have been through tough trading times before and survived by various means.
The suggestion I'm making has been available for some years and possibly some on here already offer such a service.
Trading conditions are never static and flexibility is essential for those who don't trade in the less affected niche markets.
I know a c/c who drives HGV'S at the weekend which more than pays his mortgage and business overheads and allows him to have days off during the week.
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Yeah, I agree with that, but what worries me is the amount of people who are already cleaners in one form or another diversifying into another type of cleaning - particularly oven cleaning given the cost of the kit.
There isn't enough carpet cleaning work to keep all the carpet cleaners going.
There isn't enough window cleaning work to keep all the window cleaners going.
There isn't enough oven cleaning work to keep all the oven cleaners going.
Yet so many people offering these services are looking to branch out into each others services - services that don't have enough work to sustain those that are already providing them.
It's a recipe for disaster.
If you are going to diversify, don't diversify into another kind of cleaning. For every job you pinch from an oven cleaner, the oven cleaner will be pinching one of your carpet cleaning jobs and with work so thin on the ground already it's only going to make matters worse and this is without the constant stream of newbies like me entering the marketplace.
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Yeah, I agree with that, but what worries me is the amount of people who are already cleaners in one form or another diversifying into another type of cleaning - particularly oven cleaning given the cost of the kit.
There isn't enough carpet cleaning work to keep all the carpet cleaners going.
There isn't enough window cleaning work to keep all the window cleaners going.
There isn't enough oven cleaning work to keep all the oven cleaners going.
Yet so many people offering these services are looking to branch out into each others services - services that don't have enough work to sustain those that are already providing them.
It's a recipe for disaster.
If you are going to diversify, don't diversify into another kind of cleaning. For every job you pinch from an oven cleaner, the oven cleaner will be pinching one of your carpet cleaning jobs and with work so thin on the ground already it's only going to make matters worse and this is without the constant stream of newbies like me entering the marketplace.
That makes a lot of sense.
Personally I think a lot of people "diversify" because they are, generally speaking, desperate to generate income, and not because they have researched a market and have a genuine plan to exploit it.
Rog
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Given the current economic climate I would stick to what you know and if you are going to diversify, think long and hard about providing a service that a recession and a lack of cash actually forces people into using.
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I would have thought that add on services give you more opportunity to work your existing customers.
However I agree there is an element of the grass is always greener.
What is happening in some peoples heads is they are panicking nothings working so buying into something new takes a bit of the stress away, until of course, the new thing doesn't work and the cycle begins again.
So what's the common denominator? Well it's the same old space between your ears. How about looking inwardly rather than externally? Most people fail not because of a lack of knowledge, money or opportunity, they fail because of the way they think.
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Good point about trying to sell a new service to existing customers, but it is still a gamble. I wouldn't want to be taking that kind of gamble and invest in costly equipment at a time like this.
If you are going to offer oven cleaning in particular you'd be doing well if you managed to cover the cost of the equipment/training. Having your oven professionally cleaned is similar to having your carpet professionally cleaned. For most people it's a bit of a luxury at the best of times, but unlike carpet cleaning, the average person is more than capable of cleaning their oven to a perfectly reasonable standard using products bought for a few quid in their local supermarket.
In my opinion it's an even bigger risk than taking on carpet cleaning as a secondary service.
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A lot of selling to your existing customers is going to depend on where you stand in the market place. The bottom end of the market place is always going to be hit hardest as it is the easiest place for competitors to enter the market and the customers are going to have less money to spendon extra services. People higher up the ladder are a lot more likely to spend £60 on oven cleaning rather than get their own hands dirty.
If your customers are letting agents it would be a good idea to add oven cleaning to your list of services before their oven cleaner offers carpet cleaning. From my experience letting agents would rather deal with one person rather than several and when we stopped doing house cleans we lost a lot of the end of tenancy carpet cleans with it. It did not matter to the agents that the house cleaners had crap carpet cleaning equipment and were not doing such a good job.
We do not do carpet cleaning but if one of our regular customers want windows cleaned in a house we are in then we do it rather than them find somebody else that can offer all the services they require, this applys to hard floors and other things as well.
I am lucky that I have some big long established customers that keep me extremely busy. The key is getting qualified as the more specialist you are the less competition there is and the harder it is for people to become compettiors.
Above all you need to have a positive attitude or you will not be able to convert the business that is there anyway.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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Diversifying is something I have actively done over the past 8 years in business.
I started carpet cleaning in Jan 2003 after being made redundant, in the June I was asked by a client if I knew any window cleaners, so I started window cleaning for 6 customers in between carpet cleaning, in the August I took on my first employee, I now have 6 window cleaners and 1500 clients.
The next year we were asked about office cleaning, so I took on a girl to do office cleaning, then we started domestic cleaning, we now have 8 "ladies who clean". Other services we provide are pressure washing, hard floor cleaning and restoration, leather cleaning and restoration, flood work, fire work, EOT cleans, new build cleans, etc, etc and our latest is we've just had a dip tank built for oven cleaning and already have work for it with our current clients.
We now have a 3200 sqft workshop/office for storage and working in, employ 19 staff, full and part time and run 8 vans. They are all pretty much kept busy all the time with domestic and commercial work. It's not the route a lot of people want to go down, but for us in quite a rural area where there is not the density of population it was the right way to go.
Unfortunately now I very rarely get out on the vans, the majority of my time is spent office/workshop based. My main task at the moment is promoting our oven cleaning services to current and new clients. If this takes off then van No 9 and employee No 20 will be on their way.
There is always an "on cost" with diversifying and providing additional services, ie: extra machinery and materials, storage, transport and even employees, it's not for everyone.
Do a bit of market research, a simple business plan and see if it comes out as a viable idea?
I've got another investment idea rattling around in my brain at the moment that came from a chance conversation over the Christmas break and involves very little additional investment on our part but has the potential to generate £1000+/week....I now need to investigate a bit more!!
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A couple of excellent posts, just shows what can be done, that's fantastic.
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Agree there wynne some good posts to keep and spec what ian has posted.
Think the bad weather before xmas didnt help really and like most business did struggle..
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If you believe that diversifying will boost your income, do it!!!
If you don't.... don't. It's as simple as that!
Remember people.... PMA!!!! ;)
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There isn't enough carpet cleaning work to keep all the carpet cleaners going.
Well that's a new one - seeing as it's generally accepted that less than 15% of the homes in this country have their carpets cleaned. Therefore, there is plenty of potential customers out there just waiting to be educated as to why they should have their carpets cleaned.
I clean carpets, upholstery, leather, hard floors.
I supply and fit carpets, laminate, wood and vinyl.
To both domestic and commercial properties.
I've been in the carpet industry for 30 years next year and I've been in business for myself for 20 years next year. I've traded through 3 recessions.
Get off your backsides and make something happen. There is no magic bullet. Do leaflets, do neighbour nudgers, get a website, get a facebook listing, walk the streets cold calling businesses, even do a yellow pages ad - but do something.
Phone Ian Rochester or Simon Gerrard or scores of others and find out how to run a successful business.
With the greatest respect to Matt Seymour, he has been in business for 5 months and it hasn't worked for him for various reasons and now you are agreeing with him that the carpet cleaning industry is going down the pan.
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Diversifying is something I have actively done over the past 8 years in business.
I started carpet cleaning in Jan 2003 after being made redundant, in the June I was asked by a client if I knew any window cleaners, so I started window cleaning for 6 customers in between carpet cleaning, in the August I took on my first employee, I now have 6 window cleaners and 1500 clients.
The next year we were asked about office cleaning, so I took on a girl to do office cleaning, then we started domestic cleaning, we now have 8 "ladies who clean". Other services we provide are pressure washing, hard floor cleaning and restoration, leather cleaning and restoration, flood work, fire work, EOT cleans, new build cleans, etc, etc and our latest is we've just had a dip tank built for oven cleaning and already have work for it with our current clients.
We now have a 3200 sqft workshop/office for storage and working in, employ 19 staff, full and part time and run 8 vans. They are all pretty much kept busy all the time with domestic and commercial work. It's not the route a lot of people want to go down, but for us in quite a rural area where there is not the density of population it was the right way to go.
Unfortunately now I very rarely get out on the vans, the majority of my time is spent office/workshop based. My main task at the moment is promoting our oven cleaning services to current and new clients. If this takes off then van No 9 and employee No 20 will be on their way.
There is always an "on cost" with diversifying and providing additional services, ie: extra machinery and materials, storage, transport and even employees, it's not for everyone.
Do a bit of market research, a simple business plan and see if it comes out as a viable idea?
I've got another investment idea rattling around in my brain at the moment that came from a chance conversation over the Christmas break and involves very little additional investment on our part but has the potential to generate £1000+/week....I now need to investigate a bit more!!
Same as above, but not so much on window cleaning, also office consumables, t/rolls
hand towels etc.
Andrew
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There is plenty of work out there for everyone.
What you put in, is what you get out. Don't diversify, just push what you know harder. Knock doors, call people, drop leaflets. The harder you work, the luckier you will be.
Very rare for a customer to go elsewhere if you service is top notch and you build relationships.
My wife sat on the phone for two hours before Christmas and generated over £2000 of commercial carpet cleaning.
If people spent their time pushing their business rather than moaning on forums, they'd have a brighter future. ( that is not aimed at anyone in particular )
As someone else has already mentioned, a Positive Mental attitude is very important.
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I've said this before, but if I'd started oven cleaning before carpet cleaning, I'm not too sure I'd have gone into carpet cleaning. The reason being that oven cleaning is so cheap to start up and run. Although there isn't mega bucks in it, you do build up regulars like window cleaners do. The other oven cleaner down our way has to turn work down as his diary is pretty much full all year round. Well, at least that's what some prospects tell me when they phone up for my services...
So my advice to someone considering carpet cleaning, would be to look into oven cleaning first, but it isn't suited to most people, only those who are willing to work for their crust!!!
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I feel I need to add this.
You diversy because you are not busy, you need to spend more money on new equipment.
You then need to advertise and go and get customers, oh wait, that;s why you diversified.....
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The reason I diversified was because an opportunity came along and I took it.
Speaking from "EXPERIENCE", this has done no harm to my business whatsoever and I have
plans surrounding the oven cleaning which "will" lead on to bigger and better things... ;)
Diversification is not for everyone, granted, just those who can make things happen. Ian and Andrew's posts prove what can be achieved if you have the minerals not to keep all your eggs in one basket. I applaud the "Can Do" attitude they have....
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I feel I need to add this.
You diversy because you are not busy, you need to spend more money on new equipment.
You then need to advertise and go and get customers, oh wait, that;s why you diversified.....
Not for me, the reason I diversified was because an opportunity came along and I took it.
Speaking from "EXPERIENCE", this has done no harm to my business whatsoever and I have
plans surrounding the oven cleaning which "will" lead on to bigger and better things... ;)
Diversification is not for everyone, granted, just those who can make things happen. Ian and Andrew's posts prove what can be achieved if you have the minerals not to keep all your eggs in one basket. I applaud the "Can Do" attitude they have....
Yes but they diversified as they wanted to grow, not because they were struggling to find customers.
If you can't find customers for one business, what will be different about the next!?
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I feel I need to add this.
You diversy because you are not busy, you need to spend more money on new equipment.
You then need to advertise and go and get customers, oh wait, that;s why you diversified.....
Not for me, the reason I diversified was because an opportunity came along and I took it.
Speaking from "EXPERIENCE", this has done no harm to my business whatsoever and I have
plans surrounding the oven cleaning which "will" lead on to bigger and better things... ;)
Diversification is not for everyone, granted, just those who can make things happen. Ian and Andrew's posts prove what can be achieved if you have the minerals not to keep all your eggs in one basket. I applaud the "Can Do" attitude they have....
Yes but they diversified as they wanted to grow, not because they were struggling to find customers.
If you can't find customers for one business, what will be different about the next!?
I did actually say "Diversification is not for everyone"
But it is the way forward at building a business where your aims are perhaps, to create jobs!
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I really think its a case of some people can always find a reason not to do something, If anyone seriously expects to get a business up and going in a matter of mths they are seriously over optimistic, Yes it is poss to get of to a flying start and then hit a slump, But business takes time to build ,and yes the economy is in the doldrums, But it is the same for almost every industry,
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[quote author=Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus) link=topic=116169.msg1001673#msg1001673 I clean carpets, upholstery, leather, hard floors.
Get off your backsides and make something happen. There is no magic bullet. Do leaflets, do neighbour nudgers, get a website, get a facebook listing, walk the streets cold calling businesses, even do a yellow pages ad - but do something.
How true, but then you are from the generation that was bought up on "if you want something you have to work for it" ( no offence Steve :-*) and not like more recent generations who have been taught at school that "you have a right to something no matter what". It's not their fault, but now it is hitting some hard as they can't have what they want now!
Sitting down doing nothing will bring you nothing, moaning about having nothing will bring you nothing, we all do it from time to time and then we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and get going again. It took us 4 years to build a solid base to our business to build on, and from then on we have tweaked and adjusted as need be, striving to get perfection (we won't) but that is what we strive for. Yes we have our down days, we all do, but give up....... never or the last 12 years will have been wasted.
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There isn't enough carpet cleaning work to keep all the carpet cleaners going.
Well that's a new one - seeing as it's generally accepted that less than 15% of the homes in this country have their carpets cleaned. Therefore, there is plenty of potential customers out there just waiting to be educated as to why they should have their carpets cleaned.
I clean carpets, upholstery, leather, hard floors.
I supply and fit carpets, laminate, wood and vinyl.
To both domestic and commercial properties.
I've been in the carpet industry for 30 years next year and I've been in business for myself for 20 years next year. I've traded through 3 recessions.
Get off your backsides and make something happen. There is no magic bullet. Do leaflets, do neighbour nudgers, get a website, get a facebook listing, walk the streets cold calling businesses, even do a yellow pages ad - but do something.
Phone Ian Rochester or Simon Gerrard or scores of others and find out how to run a successful business.
With the greatest respect to Matt Seymour, he has been in business for 5 months and it hasn't worked for him for various reasons and now you are agreeing with him that the carpet cleaning industry is going down the pan.
As I said, there isn't enough to keep ALL carpet cleaners going.
There will be many who survive or even thrive this year, but there will also be those who go under or find themselves working very hard for very little.
Obviously the more established guys who have longstanding customers and a large customer database are best placed to do well, but some newbies will be OK too.
There are many contributing factors, I am just suggesting a little caution before people go out and start buying oven cleaning gear etc because everyone seems to have the same idea.
I am getting out because prices are tumbling in my area, I have Enterprise around here who are still pulling in thousands depsite Watchdog AND a letter from the council being delivered to thousands of homes in the area warning about them. It has become harder and harder to secure work and all the forms of marketing that were previously bringing in work have completely dried up.
I had a choice, throw more time and money at it or take a good look at what is happening and cut my losses. To continue would be a risk and with a baby due in May it's not a risk that I am willing to take.
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Matt,if you’ve got what it takes to `cut the mustard`you`ll succede
At anything( pardon my spelling ! )
I started way back in 1974.There was much more work around in
Those days,on site carpet cleaning other than the Hoover `Shampoo`
3 contra rotating little brush thingies and other methods were unheard
Of. The renting out of small capacity HWE machines even by the local
Asian newsagents is now commonplace.
When I started it was take away plant cleaning.( Well nearly all anyway)
There was the Stimvac Mk5 stainless steel model HWE.
I`m both a carpet / window cleaner,hav`nt got what it takes at either,well
Not to take £100,000 per annum sole trader as some would have us believe.
All those years ago a leading company in the industry told me that if all your
Offering is an on site carpet cleaning service,you`ll never get it `off the ground`.
You have to offer a full comprehensive service,ie Chem-Dry will be booked
Up for months with the recent floods.
This post covers very little I know,but if you do have `what it takes to cut the
Mustard` you will get on.
There again,whats the definition of success ?
I get the impression your possibly like myself,not really sales orientated,
A family on the way,I see your point and don`t really blame you.
Lewis Doubtfire
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speaking to a client today, and she was saying her brother in law is in the construction industry and hasn`t worked for 15 weeks. Her husband has to travel 100 miles, and stay overnight to get the same money he had on his door step. Everyone seems to be getting it hard.
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I don't have a problem with sales or marketing, I have worked in sales in the past. In the albeit relatively short amount of time I have been running I can only think of one occasion where I didn't turn a request for a quote into a job and I've never had a complaint or been called back to rectify a problem.
The fact is that there isn't much work at the moment and an awful lot of people are chasing that small amount of work. There are carpet cleaners in my area who have been going a lot longer than me who are having problems.
A few months ago I was doing quite nicely and meeting most of my targets without too much trouble, but in November and December the bottom just fell out of it completely. We didn't have anywhere near the amount of snow and bad weather around here as was the case in other parts of the country, so it had nothing to do with that. Every report I've seen shows a huge decline in the number of people searching the internet for carpet cleaning in this area. I previously did pretty well out of my leaflets, but that stopped working and Facebook, which used to get me quite a few jobs, also provided nothing.
I probably could have made a little more effort to secure commercial work in the last couple of months,
The last enquiry I had I quoted between £30 and £40 to clean a living room and they turned their nose up at it because there are countless companies offering to clean a living room for a little over £20. I am not matching those kinds of prices.
It's all very well people saying that a positive mental attitude and hard work will reap rewards, but it doesn't apply to everyone in every location. Competition has a lot to do with the success of any business.
At the end of the day carpet cleaning and oven cleaning is a luxury a lot of people can't afford at the moment and more and more people are offering those services at lower and lower prices, all competing against one another.
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Matt
You don't have to justify on here your decisions. You have made your choices and whether your beliefs are right or wrong is of no consequence. If I were in your shoes I would not be on here, I would be focusing on what I'm doing today and in the future. :)
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Hi Matt,your last 4 paragraphs has always`s been the case I recon.
Always`s has been and always`s will be.
Lewis Doubtfire
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Very good posts from Ian, Andrew, Steve and a few others. Myself and my wife started a domestic and commercial cleaning business 8 years ago. It started with one office contract (which we still supply services to now) and a couple of weekly domestic jobs, after alot of hard work and long hours for a few years we employed 27 part time staff and 3 full time staff. When you get to a stage in business as mentioned adding other services is easy to do, you have a large client base who trust you. So getting customers for things you used to sub contract is easier than anyone starting from scratch. Any business needs time, alot of effort and long hours to make it profitable and worth doing long term. Over the 8 years we have had good times and plenty of bad times. The good times are being able to buy more or less anything we wanted, the bad times being big customers paying us late or going bust on us owing us thousands of pounds and worrying if we had enough to pay our staff. Even though we moan about working for ourselves we are still doing it ???
Matt, a good and high % of people will always be willing to pay good prices to have offices cleaned, floors cleaned, carpets, windows and ovens cleaned, this is the case with many other services such as gardening, decorating, etc..... some services like windows and offices are of course of a higher %
Working for yourself isnt everyones cup of tea so fair play to you and good luck.
But believe me "where theres muck theres brass" this will always be the case!
Best of luck to you,
Paul
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Haven't read all the posts on this thread, haven't the time, but I will say that anyone who thinks they can establish a succesfull business in less than 3 years is living in cloud cukoo land.
Up here in the North East we've had 3 major recessions in the last 20 years, previous 2 where some other parts of the country didn't suffer at all. Right through those, carpet cleaners have flourished. Nowts easy, get your arse in to gear and go for it.
I got asked today to find someone willing to stainguard a newly laid 100% wool carpet in a restaurant. I phoned 4 people, 1 was too busy, 3 went to answerphone, 1 rung back and earned £350.
I can never understand why when I ring carpet cleaners lots of them don't even have a personal message on their phone, just the generic Orange or O2 etc. If a customer rings you for a job and gets an answerphone they'll more than likely just ring someone else.
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I like Matt started in August last year, had some good months and a couple of bad months, noteably December because of the snow. January so far is slow, but I am getting work and I am out delivering leaflets everyday. When at home working on website and a new leaflet design. I am also one of those who is going into oven cleaning, mainly to get in with letting agents as I have not had much success so far with them but in speaking with several they have said that they have struggled to find oven cleaners and I was told that they would rather deal with one person for carpets, ovens, eot cleans etc. as it saves them time in dealing with lots of different people etc.
I've been self-employed for nearly 20 years in several roles and like others have said it takes time to make a successful business.
However it is a lot easier to quit than to carry on and see things through as I have learnt the hard way when I have not stayed with something only to regret my decision at a later point.
There is another thread on here at the moment saying how other newbie's are actually not doing to bad, a great inspiration.
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When I was doing both,the main problem I had was,,,,,,,,,well
If you’re a window cleaner,what do you know about carpet /
Upholstery cleaning.? ? The customers attitude I mean.
To perceve the professional element,and be a professional as
A carpet cleaner,,,,,a person`s carpet ya cleaned last week see`s
Ya cleaning shop front windows the next week it dos`nt look
Too good in their eyes.
Lewis Doubtfire
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A moment please............
I was NOT suggesting DIVERSIFYING but ADDING a related service to an existing one !
How often have you cleaned suites or carpets and it was obvious that some cosmetic work on timber frames / tables / etc, would have mad a huge difference to the overall picture.
When I spent my three days at the Furniture Clinic I was aware that they sold products for restoring wood finishes and had I been a bit younger would have enquired further.
In my first job as a Golf Pro, I spent a fair bit of my time re gripping clubs and restoring the finish on wooden clubs, even making matched sets and going through the full - sanding / sealing / staining / finishing routine - so I know how simple it is to deal with wood ( much easier than leather )
If you add such a service to carpet cleaning I believe you will get MORE carpet cleaning as you are rsolving your customer's problems and your average ticket will be greater.
Most people don't think the chips or marks on timber items are removable, but in most cases it's a dawdle, so why not get the extra money.
This is NOT a HANDYMAN type of service and should be sold as an EXPERT RESTORER SERVICE alongside your existing CLEANING EXPERT SERVICE.
Just make sure you can deliver.