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UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ianharper on January 08, 2011, 08:39:58 am

Title: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 08, 2011, 08:39:58 am
Guys

Just wanted to say what a great job google does on this issue. I have someone in colchester (and some other areas) clicking on my advert each day. and google is picking them up and not charging me for the clicks. WELL DONE google.

AS some know i have a third party program that also tracks clicks this is working well and i have banded IP's that where searching for my URL and then clicking on my advert.

also someone thinks that they can have what is called a dynamic IP and get away with it as well. What they forget is that if you advert is targeted at an area if you getting clicks from ips outside, and these type ip's use ones from all around the globe they also dont get charged. ;D

So all in all you can protect yourself from Fraudsters.

Respect

Ian Harper
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Linds Russell on January 08, 2011, 09:41:53 am
I got a £72 bill credit for Adwords in November as someone had been doing the same to me.

Swines!
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Matt Seymour on January 08, 2011, 08:39:58 pm
This is the problem with both adwords and place pages. They are so easily open to abuse.

A guy on another forum has had someone leaving a load of negative reviews on his places page.

Google need to sort this out.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: wynne jones on January 08, 2011, 09:26:50 pm
I reported a firm who has blatantly given themselves a 5 star review and then gone round all their competitors and slated them with1 star. I reported this to Google a month ago and nothing has been done. Ironically this was around the time Radio2 did a big piece on Google Fraud and a spokesman was saying they were on top of it.

This is why you NEED to be on the ball with Places because you need to manage your reputation. This will become more and more important as people get used to reviewing services other than restaurants and holiday homes.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: The Carpet Cleaning Pro on January 08, 2011, 10:30:31 pm
I have the same problem. I received 109 pound for fraud clicks in Nov. Do these people think that we don't know who they are. IP addresses are amazing things and so easy to track.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: John Milnes on January 08, 2011, 10:43:25 pm
I'm concerned that my adwords are being compromised by fraud clicks.
How then, do you guys find out what is happening?

I'm a bit dumb on this.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Emil Dinev on January 08, 2011, 11:28:30 pm
I had the same issue back in July last year. £314 bill from AdWords - £285 worth of fake clicks. That put me off AdWords, never used it since and never will.
Real problem is when you get your daily budget drained by competitors at say 1pm you become invisible for the audience and have to either top up or wait for same thing to happen on the next day. Absolutely misery.
 
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: The Carpet Cleaning Pro on January 09, 2011, 12:39:38 pm
I suppose the best way to combat it is rather than pay for wasted google adds... pay to have you website professionally optimised and pay for constant optimising and get it to the top of organic listings. A good way for you to help get your site higher is get links from other topic related sites. This will increase your page ranking thus get your site higher in the listings. A good tip is get your other pages linked to aswell. These are called deep links and will all add to your overall website ranking.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Matt Seymour on January 09, 2011, 04:46:17 pm
I think the google places is kind of unfair anyway. A spot right at the top of page one purely based on your location with barely any effort.

Seems a bit harsh on those who are slightly further from the centre of town but serving the area and are having to spend a lot of time and effort on SEO and taking the gamble that is adwords.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: wynne jones on January 09, 2011, 05:07:40 pm
I think the google places is kind of unfair anyway. A spot right at the top of page one purely based on your location with barely any effort.

Seems a bit harsh on those who are slightly further from the centre of town but serving the area and are having to spend a lot of time and effort on SEO and taking the gamble that is adwords.

Matt

Although there is a weighting for being slap bang in the middle of an area other factors will easily make up for this. Also not all types of company have the same algorithm applied. Testing by some boffins showed that certain trades/services had very little weighting on location.

Most people haven't scratch the surface with their places entry yet.

Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: JandS on January 09, 2011, 05:17:58 pm
Pay per click is a stupid idea anyway, open to abuse.
They could ask all there mates to click on you as well.
I don't even understand how they rank it, is the more
you pay going to get you higher up the rankings?

John
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Matt Seymour on January 09, 2011, 05:19:02 pm
You can't deny that your location give you a headstart on everyone else.

When I first started I created a google map and went straight to page one for some areas with no effort at all.

I personally think that google should charge for places pages, but only if they sort out the issues discussed on this thread.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: wynne jones on January 09, 2011, 05:55:26 pm
Matt

They may well start charging for the map entry in the future.

All I can say about PPC is I know companies (not in CC) that spend over £300k a year on adwords. They would laugh at these posts about fraud. If there is fraud on PPC you will get your money back. There wouldn't be a system still running if everyone lost their money if the competitors did this.

The truth is... and I'm not trying to be funny, but the reason it is losing you money is you simply don't know what you are doing. If you are not prepared to learn it or get someone to do it for you then yes leave well alone, but don't blame Google or your carpet cleaning enemies down the road. :)

   
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Matt Seymour on January 09, 2011, 05:58:55 pm
I've not personally had much problem with adwords. I did one short campaign which brought in nothing whatsoever, so gave it a miss after.

Someone else with a similar opinion to you regarding how to use adwords was so confident that he could get me business using it that he did me a campaign for free.

The end result?

Nothing.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: wynne jones on January 09, 2011, 06:18:03 pm
Well at least it didn't cost you anything.  ;D

Here's another way to look at it. How many times has someone rang you up about advertising and siad we do this local mag/paper/whatever and you can advertise in ther for only £50 and you think well go on worth a try. You do that and you get ....... nothing, but you gave it a try.

Now do the same with Adwords and you get ....... nothing or do you? Even if you get no calls you have collected data. It is this data that is the starting point to creating a return on investment.

Who is succesful with Adwords? The person who is prepared to pick over the results. Do you know what split testing is? Have you heard of peel and stick? These are the things you need to spend time on to really find out if it's a goer or not.

Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Matt Seymour on January 09, 2011, 06:42:12 pm
I agree Wynne.

It's a handy tool if you are prepared to spend a few quid and some time on it. Like any kind of marketing it's a case of trial and error and finding what works best for your business in your location. I don't think there is any one particular of guaranteeing success.

I used to get a lot of work just by posting my details on Facebook trade groups, but others get nothing at all from Facebook.

Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 09, 2011, 07:01:20 pm
Guys

Just like any program most users only use a small percentage of that program. well its the same with adwords.

take this site below for example its a target market and as you will see it has a panel with google adwords on the right. well in adwords you can get you adverts to show just on this site in this panel.

http://womensnet.net/default.aspx

now the site could be a local school or shop or any other type of business that monetizes itself. its an opportunity.

http://www.dailyblogtips.com/ways-to-make-money-online-with-website/

So are all your competitors going to search every site on the net to just click on your advert?

its when we all start marketing with great USP's at this level that the market will start to change from price to value

Respect

Ian Harper

Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: wynne jones on January 09, 2011, 08:09:51 pm
That's a great point Ian and it all comes back again to knowing your customer really well (and a few techie tricks too  ;D)
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 11, 2011, 02:36:57 pm
Guys

another tip

don't put the town name in any keywords. break down into areas and set mileage limit then cleaners from outside will not see your adverts and this should cut down the clicks from them.

you only need to put the town because in the seo listings you got all the heavy weights or national listings, with adwords you don't need to do this.

If you have one campaign covering a large area every cleaner in that area will see you advert. keep it local for each area. Plus it will leave you more room for other words as space is limited.

I think it might help with the cost as well. not sure about this one yet.

Hope this helps

Respect

Ian Harper
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: wynne jones on January 11, 2011, 06:22:20 pm
Ian

Just being nosey, whats your spend on Adwords a month?
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: spencer davies on January 12, 2011, 08:35:29 pm
Decent of you to share your experience and findings Ian, true gent.

S
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: Emil Dinev on January 12, 2011, 10:28:27 pm
Ian, how much do you spend per click?...I know it's different for different keywords and areas...but still how much on average?

Emil
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 13, 2011, 07:23:54 am
Emil

the really exciting thing i found this week is that i was paying about £2.50 a click for "carpet cleaning town" taken the town out and its down to £1.50 a click with no drop in clicks on average.

What's also interesting is that if you live in a town that has a twin in the USA it effects the price. I sure google would say no it does not but how come that one town would be so much more expensive that many other some with larger populations?

I think what the issue is that a town name is just another word to google.

Respect

Ian Harper

Spencer, you know me always hoping others will share as well
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 13, 2011, 07:38:36 am
wynne

prepay always and keep going up as you learn what works. sorry cant say here in open forum.

My plan is learn what works and you can control and the just duplicate it.

Respect

Ian Harper
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 17, 2011, 06:51:49 am
Guys

just put up another campaign for romford and got 10 invaid click which google picked up on. you can add a column that shows this info in adwords. well done google again.

wynne i am getting a four to one return at the moment that's over the last two weeks

Respect

Ian
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: simbo on January 17, 2011, 08:04:01 pm
can you let me know how you do that ian.
paul
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 18, 2011, 06:25:15 am
Paul

you just dont use the words adwords gives you you need to find your own. lots of guys on here have spent loads and given up. if they just learnt how to control it they would make money from it.

prepay for me is key.

any good marketing should be tested small then on a larger scale.

my advise to you is set up a prepay account and then just pick a few words and work up from that. spend time working out what works will pay in the end.

good luck

Respect

Ian Harper
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: ianharper on January 22, 2011, 12:06:00 pm
Guys

on your keywords select the "exact match" option it will cut down on your advert coming up for totally unrelated search results.

I did some testing and just put "carpet cleaning" in one area as an exact match but still kept getting clicks for other search strings that had carpet cleaning in them. it must be that because i had say sofa cleaning i was getting results that inducing anything with cleaning in them, so its my view that by "exact match" all keywords this would cut these clicks out.

I am testing this idea out on one area so i will let you know results.

Hope this helps


Respect
Ian Harper
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: garry22 on January 22, 2011, 05:42:45 pm
Just use negative keywords instead.
Title: Re: Adwords Fraud
Post by: wynne jones on January 22, 2011, 07:00:20 pm
Erm, sort of what I was thinking too.

I think as Ian has found that as the campaign develops you can refine it by looking at the data. So in fact you may want to run it broad initially just to see what you get, then refine it and setting up individual ad group that spin off from it.

It's a big subject, don't reinvent the wheel, get some training or at least buy an ebook or something.