Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dai on December 31, 2010, 12:48:42 pm
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I was talking to a mate of mine from Prestatyn yesterday. He has a newbie Wfp window cleaner. 6 windows and a large con £4.00.
I read on here every week about guys earning £300 a day. I wish these newbies would sod off and move to their areas.
Underpricing in order to get work. is the number one mistake newbies make.
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Like you said mate, most newbies make that mistake. When they get peed off after a while working for 10 quid an hour, they jack it in. In the meantime, your area has crap prices, annoying I bet. :(
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its not just the new window cleaners their are loads of old window cleaners that are cheap and dont put their prices up people brag about what the charge when its not even close to what the actualy charge
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its not just the new window cleaners their are loads of old window cleaners that are cheap and dont put their prices up people brag about what the charge when its not even close to what the actualy charge
that is so true, there are wc near me who claim they charge 8 just for fronts only, plus a lot on here dont want to look like they aint making the money they should be, so lie
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Its not just a newbie thing that creates price ceilings.
There are some old school window cleaners with high volume compact rounds in my area that charge half what I do.
From their perspective they have a regular income and risk losing few or no customers due to price.
Although they have an income, they don't have a profitable business.
And no margin to absorb unexpected costs due to illness etc.
It is no good for the window cleaning business and customers become only focused on cheap prices usually regardless of the fact you may be offering a better service.
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Remember there is so much ground 1 man can cover.....if he keeps those prices he will get sick soon thats when you see these rounds knocking about for sale for less then 2 cleans then you simply buy it after you cleaned it to get you money back up the prices i bet 70% will accept
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Think were going to have a lot more undercutters out this year
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Remember there is so much ground 1 man can cover.....if he keeps those prices he will get sick soon thats when you see these rounds knocking about for sale for less then 2 cleans then you simply buy it after you cleaned it to get you money back up the prices i bet 70% will accept
Interesting business philosophy you have there ???
I would advise steering well clear of seriously underpriced work in the hope that customers might accept a price hike of 100% in some cases
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Remember there is so much ground 1 man can cover.....if he keeps those prices he will get sick soon thats when you see these rounds knocking about for sale for less then 2 cleans then you simply buy it after you cleaned it to get you money back up the prices i bet 70% will accept
Interesting business philosophy you have there ???
I would advise steering well clear of seriously underpriced work in the hope that customers might accept a price hike of 100% in some cases
nah im just saying that the lad shouldnt worry.. everyone has an underpriced window cleaner i know a guy who works in the same street as me and charges 50% less... but my point is i know he can only cover the same amount of ground as i can or less cos his moral will be low and he looks sick as a dog..
all i am saying whats the chances he will sell up or just dump work?in which case you pick up...
what i am sayin in a nutshell is whoever is constanly keeping prices that low can not survive
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Very true Crystal-Clear, we know those prices are unsustainable.
Unfortunately some customers don't always get it.
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Hi Dai , ive just moved to the area in question and are horrified of the prices the locals are charging , met a few so far, i think it has the most wiindow cleaner's per sq mile in the country due to not much work in the area. prices - 4 bed seems lucky to get £8 - £10 with a conny ..
even been to a few chip shops and on the walls bungalows £7 3 beds £7.50 and they where WFP ing .
so think i may have to come to LLandudno to pay the bills ;)
lol
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Hi Dai , ive just moved to the area in question and are horrified of the prices the locals are charging , met a few so far, i think it has the most wiindow cleaner's per sq mile in the country due to not much work in the area. prices - 4 bed seems lucky to get £8 - £10 with a conny ..
even been to a few chip shops and on the walls bungalows £7 3 beds £7.50 and they where WFP ing .
so think i may have to come to LLandudno to pay the bills ;)
lol
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I live near Ffynongroew John, most of my work is round Llandudno. the prices are no better, but it's all really compact.
You will know where I'm coming from, some of the prices guys on here are getting, I wish. It's not easy finding work when you are charging more than anyone else.
My lad has lost his job, so I am looking to take on some more customers, but not at the daft prices some are charging.
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All i can say on prices is this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The cheapest price will allways be the cheapest but not necessarily the best, put the price in your happy to job for and dont worry about weather somebody else is getting more if your happy with your lot thats all you need to bother about, there endeth the lesson.
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put the price in your happy to job for
And ensure the potential customer knows when they ask such quesions as 'is that the best price' that you dont compromise on quality. Everyone wants the best job they can get, its not until its pointed out to them that they realise they have to pay for it.
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Hi Dai , ive just moved to the area in question and are horrified of the prices the locals are charging , met a few so far, i think it has the most wiindow cleaner's per sq mile in the country due to not much work in the area. prices - 4 bed seems lucky to get £8 - £10 with a conny ..
even been to a few chip shops and on the walls bungalows £7 3 beds £7.50 and they where WFP ing .
so think i may have to come to LLandudno to pay the bills ;)
lol
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I live near Ffynongroew John, most of my work is round Llandudno. the prices are no better, but it's all really compact.
You will know where I'm coming from, some of the prices guys on here are getting, I wish. It's not easy finding work when you are charging more than anyone else.
My lad has lost his job, so I am looking to take on some more customers, but not at the daft prices some are charging.
Most of your work is 30 miles away then Dai? We do upto 40 miles, thought I was one of the few who had to travel.
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i find usually customers never change me for someone cheaper as we have built a relationship and they can trust me on their property when at work.undercutters are only cheating themselves and i will always have the last laugh
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half of my round is 29 miles away cozy
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Some time ago I tried to point out the problems of over trading is areas and so many still kept on painting a rosy picture of this industry. Slumps also tried to correct this by not giving all the" it’s an easy way to make money" But not to many thickoes still sell the same old story. Once a fellow has invested in equipment and does not have the business knowledge to match the shiny new equipment he will sell himself cheap and we fan this on with stories of our success with out telling them of the hardship to get there. It’s the short sightedness of so may on here. Time to wise up and stop looking for recognition for your meagre success. ??? ??? ???
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When two dogs fight one may kill the other but the winning dog is often in barely better state himself.
Price wars benefit nobody, you may be able to kill off the undercutting newbies but the damage they do remains.
What annoys me is when the newbies have bright shiney new vans and you know that somebody within the trade (no names but most of us know who) has put them up to it, filling their heads with big ideas while emptying their bank account in the process.
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Vince you are rght, why not say its Ionics and the like.They thing this the market will last for every.Short term gain will be long term loss.
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When two dogs fight one may kill the other but the winning dog is often in barely better state himself.
Price wars benefit nobody, you may be able to kill off the undercutting newbies but the damage they do remains.
What annoys me is when the newbies have bright shiney new vans and you know that somebody within the trade (no names but most of us know who) has put them up to it, filling their heads with big ideas while emptying their bank account in the process.
Your right mate, how often do we hear, "my mum only pays £3.50 and her house is bigger".
It's not only underpricing WFP newbies either, we still have to compete against the guys paying £40 a day cash in hand to young guys working oFf ladders.
I know one that has been getting away with it for years, he say's he's not employing them, just renting his round out to them, but it's the boss who collects and pays the wages. He also drops them off in an area and picks them up later.
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You only have to look on the fleabay, there is always hardly used vans and equipment for sale, they may have given up but the damage is still left behind.
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You are right, they are always there on ebay. I would love some of them to come on here and tell their stories but I guess thats hoping for too much.
There have been several around in my area that have subsequently disappeared again. I think they all gave up after a short while although to be honest I can't see why because with a bit of perseverence its a fertile area and they could so easily have carved out a niche for themselves.
One lot I know were far to highly priced, £36 a house. They were a Franchise, gone in no time but they did actually get some business even at those prices. I saw them cleaning windows.
Some others were too low, less than half the going rate. I have some of their customers still now at twice what they were charging. They just vanished after about eight months, two young guys in a new van.
OK, if they got the prices wrong, just reprice and keep on going. Nobody gets it right first time around.
But what I would really like to know is what they were told about the business and by who. Why did they become so disillusioned so quckly. Its as though they had been sold a line thats its just money for nothing. when they find out its actually hard graft they give up.
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I was talking to a mate of mine from Prestatyn yesterday. He has a newbie Wfp window cleaner. 6 windows and a large con £4.00.
I read on here every week about guys earning £300 a day. I wish these newbies would sod off and move to their areas.
Underpricing in order to get work. is the number one mistake newbies make.
I agree mate, i dont think its just under pricing though
the real problem is some never learn tp price
no matter how many years they window clean
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One year in the game so newbie i am!!!!!! thoughts on pricing.............aim high,offer a better service than the cheaper alternative and do NOT i repeat do NOT undercut the cheaper alternative,one customer said to me a few weeks back my friend around the corner has the same service for £5 cheaper,so i said politely i'd go for the cheaper option but you will not get the same level of service i am offering me lady!!!Garage door,front soffitt a couple of times a year etc etc....and if you are i will (even if i didnt want to)match that price,she came back to me a couple of weeks later.........can you go and quote my friend around the corner,the window cleaner has disappeared!!!.....
So i did.......£5 higher than she was paying before!!!!!!!!!!and shes well happy now ;) ;)
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I was talking to a mate of mine from Prestatyn yesterday. He has a newbie Wfp window cleaner. 6 windows and a large con £4.00.
I read on here every week about guys earning £300 a day. I wish these newbies would sod off and move to their areas.
Underpricing in order to get work. is the number one mistake newbies make.
just wondered how many window cleaners on here turning over £1500 per week then
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a lot undercut by mistake as they still think that if they earn £10 ph then that is good money, it is only after they pay out fuel and for gear for a few months that they realise tha they are really cheap, they either sell up or dump the crap work and get better jobs
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They will also do a second and third rate job after a short while, once they realise they cannot earn anything after their overheads have been taken out,
Then the customer notices, and realises she has a rubbish window cleaner ,
and sack him.... or he will give up.
That is damage i welcome, more customers for me!......and when they see what they are getting, they will be happy to pay the right price.
How many times have you been told " Oh my last window cleaner refused to clean the frames and sills,.. he was rubbish and all done in 5 minutes"
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Now, ,... i just love that , its my turn to get my sales pitch in, explaining how thorough we are, and we clean all frames , sills and doors,
And thats why we charge more, we do a full professional clean, leaving no dirt behind.
Its not all doom and gloom if approached in the right way
;)
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I was talking to a mate of mine from Prestatyn yesterday. He has a newbie Wfp window cleaner. 6 windows and a large con £4.00.
I read on here every week about guys earning £300 a day. I wish these newbies would sod off and move to their areas.
Underpricing in order to get work. is the number one mistake newbies make.
just wondered how many window cleaners on here turning over £1500 per week then
I know one who isn't - me.
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i heard it myself before i even started as a cleaner- pole methods easy money-im not sure where i heard it tho !
im trad and one thing i notice is that apart from 1 exception(very old tranny van) all the wfpolers in my area have very new vans but these vans arent out working as you would think,theyre often sitting on their driveway in the daytime. maybe they work differently to us trad guys, quote very high and then whizz out to do the big 1 offs and back home again . certainly i never see those w.f.pole vans on the council estates where i mostly work. im guessing but maybe they sell a luxury service to toffs ?
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i heard it myself before i even started as a cleaner- pole methods easy money-im not sure where i heard it tho !
im trad and one thing i notice is that apart from 1 exception(very old tranny van) all the wfpolers in my area have very new vans but these vans arent out working as you would think,theyre often sitting on their driveway in the daytime. maybe they work differently to us trad guys, quote very high and then whizz out to do the big 1 offs and back home again . certainly i never see those w.f.pole vans on the council estates where i mostly work. im guessing but maybe they sell a luxury service to toffs ?
i bet there is some truth in that
but i know loads of trad cleaners working hard for little money
putting in loads more time than anybody
i dont think its that black and white though
because i know trad cleaners who earn £45k a year
and work less than some wfp cleaners
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£1500 a week? i thought you meant every day....................... in my dreams :-\
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I was working at a house today and the gardener who was working there as well said Its funny, I never used to see many window cleaners about but now I see loads.
I think he's right, we will get swamped eventually.
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I was working at a house today and the gardener who was working there as well said Its funny, I never used to see many window cleaners about but now I see loads.
I think he's right, we will get swamped eventually.
He's right Vince, never seen so many, it makes you think twice about putting your prices up.
As more and more lose their jobs the situation can only get worse.
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dosent make me think about putting up my prices
you will always have some customers who choose the window cleaner on price
and you will always have window cleaners charging to little
leave them both them to it
i dont want those customers and it keeps those window cleaners busy
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dosent make me think about putting up my prices
you will always have some customers who choose the window cleaner on price
and you will always have window cleaners charging to little
leave them both them to it
i dont want those customers and it keeps those window cleaners busy
Alex, in normal times I would agree with you, but I have noticed a big drop off in new clients, not only that but when many of my customers sell their house, the new occupier doesn't want a window cleaner.
Two or three times a week I used to have people pull up and ask if I did so and so street, I am lucky if I get one pull up a month now.
Things are even worse than they were back in the early 90's recession.
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Im glad that i am not trying to start up now, a lot of my new customers are recommended or have seen me around for ages, to start from nothing these days must be very hard.
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Newbies popping up all the the place around here (Stamford) I started 2 years ago and theres loads more knocking about now!! I mean some right chancers!! I believe if you provide a reputable service and a possess a professional image you will always prevail over undercutters no matter what the price difference.
I am currently canvassing again after my initial canvass 2 yrs ago and people remember me from back then who had a window cleaner when I visited and declined my services but they're not about these days........I just quote them that we're proof that 'we're not here today, gone tomorrow.
Although with those that requested quotes that had window cleaners I found I was 90% of the time more expensive but still took on many new customers. (Theres only one reason they're willing to pay more...and that's because the low priced window cleaners are working for pittance and do not take as much pride in the service they provide)
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dosent make me think about putting up my prices
you will always have some customers who choose the window cleaner on price
and you will always have window cleaners charging to little
leave them both them to it
i dont want those customers and it keeps those window cleaners busy
Alex, in normal times I would agree with you, but I have noticed a big drop off in new clients, not only that but when many of my customers sell their house, the new occupier doesn't want a window cleaner.
Two or three times a week I used to have people pull up and ask if I did so and so street, I am lucky if I get one pull up a month now.
Things are even worse than they were back in the early 90's recession.
Dai, how many new customers do you need each year?
my new customer turnover is low so i make sure they are all at a better price
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£1500 a week? i thought you meant every day....................... in my dreams :-\
a month more like ;D