Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Nameless Drudge on December 23, 2010, 07:00:01 pm
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Seems a few people do without them and use a bypass system. So i have been looking it up on here but i havn`t quite grasped it.
As i understand it the pump runs continually and when the pole flow is shut off the water diverts back to tank and this is done with a loop before and after the pump. Its the flow control valve in the loop i dont quite get,is it just a tap turned manually and does adjusting this mean the flow rate to the brush is controlled ?
I reckon my pump would be taking less abuse if it ran continually on a job instead of stop/starting intermittently when using a trigger/pole valve/aqua whatever.
At the moment i am thinking this type of set up seems more reliable than electronic controllers and far cheaper,any thoughts/facts/advice/diagram/pic greatly appreciated.
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Sean, yes you have grasped it correctly ( well thats how i see it ) the tap is used to slow or speed up the
bypass this allows more or less water through to the brush.
if you change over you will need a pressure switch (soleniod) on your pump - as ones with variflows dont
always have them
Darran
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Cheers for the reply,i have a spare pump with pressure switch and as long as i understand the bypass system then i am not stuck if i get vari-problems,that will then give me piece of mind plus if i have to go to a bigger tank then i have to set up the system myself as the Brodex kit i have now is all built in and not really transferable. I`m off to remind myself and have a laugh at HOW MUCH Brodex want for a 500litre system.
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Bear in mind that your pump will be running at full throttle all the time- draining battery more AND the flow will reduce as your pole goes higher.
I've run both systems & I would NEVER go back to a bypass, Digital varistream all day long! Never let me down in three years & performs perfect day in day out & because it uses only the minimum power required I can run direct from 12v cig' lighter socket ALL day. ;)
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WinPro - enlighten me on why with bypass the flow rate reduces with height as opposed to with a flow
controller ?
cheers
Darran
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WinPro - enlighten me on why with bypass the flow rate reduces with height as opposed to with a flow
controller ?
cheers
Darran
Resistance smudger, more pressure needed to push water higher & it takes the path of least resistance- back to tank. A digital varistream monitors this & auto compensates meaning a constant flow rate regardless of resistance. ;)
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thank you ! ;D
i thought that to be the case but wanted my suspicions confirmed ;D
Darran
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thank you ! ;D
i thought that to be the case but wanted my suspicions confirmed ;D
Darran
You're welcome darling. ;)
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I personally don't think that the bypass is a great idea as the pump goes flat out even when your not cleaning windows. An electronic flow controller that is set up right (stops pump shortly after flow stops) should work far better in my opinion.
However if you wanted to save money by not having an electronic flow controller then a better way would be to use a pump with a pressure switch and have a valve fitted on the negative side of the pump where there is no pressure.
Simon.
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I run one pump for 2 hose reels with a bypass back to tank. Been going for over a year no fuss ... brilliant, without electronic controller its just one less thing to go wrong.
If i did it again instead of back to tank, id T before and after pump and put an inline tap on the loop.
So simple and very effective...and reliable...oh and cheaper lol
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I run one pump for 2 hose reels with a bypass back to tank. Been going for over a year no fuss ... brilliant, without electronic controller its just one less thing to go wrong.
If i did it again instead of back to tank, id T before and after pump and put an inline tap on the loop.
So simple and very effective...and reliable...oh and cheaper lol
thats exactly what I do without problems
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So t before and after pump has the water circulating in a loop if not going up the pole and the inline tap on the loop would just be the lever ball type?
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I don't see the cost of a controller as an issue whatsoever, it's only what, £90 or something!
I also don't see anything to go wrong? set up right in conjunction with the right accompanying equipment & it does all the work for you!
You'll get the cost back in pressure switches & batteries let alone wearing the pump out faster. ;)
I used to use a bypass then re-circulating ( T pieces ) & always thought it was great, what else could I want? I actually got a digital varistream kind of by accident, I didn't want it after reading about people having problems with them on here.
However, am I glad that I did! Superb piece of kit & wouldn't be without it now.
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
You can indeed Matt BUT it runs at full all the time & IMO the pumps own pressure switch isn't a patch on the electronic one.
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Bear in mind that your pump will be running at full throttle all the time- draining battery more AND the flow will reduce as your pole goes higher.
I've run both systems & I would NEVER go back to a bypass, Digital varistream all day long! Never let me down in three years & performs perfect day in day out & because it uses only the minimum power required I can run direct from 12v cig' lighter socket ALL day. ;)
Hi Winp, I notice that you have a digi varistream. Do you know how the settings work on the control buttons? Ive tried holding - and + buttons down and turning on/off etc but still seems to be running too fast.
Cheers in advance
Kev
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
You can indeed Matt BUT it runs at full all the time & IMO the pumps own pressure switch isn't a patch on the electronic one.
I got a new controller and pump from Alex recently. The controller was duff, one of the circuits had gone inside I think. So for a couple of days I ran the pump with no controller and to be honest I thought the pump at that time was running at about the equivalent setting to what it would have if the controller was on 60. I reckon those controllers slow them down to be honest and when you run them at say 65 or above the pumps are actually being pushed higher than their default speed.
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must admit I never use my bypass I turn it up full and rely on the pressure switch to turn off. I have no need for low flow rate.
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
You can indeed Matt BUT it runs at full all the time & IMO the pumps own pressure switch isn't a patch on the electronic one.
I got a new controller and pump from Alex recently. The controller was duff, one of the circuits had gone inside I think. So for a couple of days I ran the pump with no controller and to be honest I thought the pump at that time was running at about the equivalent setting to what it would have if the controller was on 60. I reckon those controllers slow them down to be honest and when you run them at say 65 or above the pumps are actually being pushed higher than their default speed.
Now that is interesting,couple that with the apparent truth that a pump draws nearly twice as much current when starting up so when cycling on/off when theres no flow then the bypass starts looking very sensible.
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
You can indeed Matt BUT it runs at full all the time & IMO the pumps own pressure switch isn't a patch on the electronic one.
I got a new controller and pump from Alex recently. The controller was duff, one of the circuits had gone inside I think. So for a couple of days I ran the pump with no controller and to be honest I thought the pump at that time was running at about the equivalent setting to what it would have if the controller was on 60. I reckon those controllers slow them down to be honest and when you run them at say 65 or above the pumps are actually being pushed higher than their default speed.
I can't speak for Gardiners units matt.
But yes, that's the idea, to slow it down. I can count the revolutions when my pump is on my desired setting. ;)
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I prefer to run mine high to be honest. I like good flow and thorough rinsing.
Each to their own though mate ;)
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
In one of my vans i have a 60psi Shurflo and run it exactly how Matt said. Its been the same since i bought the van in 2003 and no problems as of yet.
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Bear in mind that your pump will be running at full throttle all the time- draining battery more AND the flow will reduce as your pole goes higher.
I've run both systems & I would NEVER go back to a bypass, Digital varistream all day long! Never let me down in three years & performs perfect day in day out & because it uses only the minimum power required I can run direct from 12v cig' lighter socket ALL day. ;)
Hi Winp, I notice that you have a digi varistream. Do you know how the settings work on the control buttons? Ive tried holding - and + buttons down and turning on/off etc but still seems to be running too fast.
Cheers in advance
Kev
Yes Klean, You mean the cut off value yes? I assume you know the default view is the flow rate setting?
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I prefer to run mine high to be honest. I like good flow and thorough rinsing.
Each to their own though mate ;)
;) ;) ;)
I prefer mine perfect. ;D
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
In one of my vans i have a 60psi Shurflo and run it exactly how Matt said. Its been the same since i bought the van in 2003 and no problems as of yet.
Btw,in my other van,in two years,i've had 3 pumps and one controller(Ionics) and replaced with Gardiners pump and controller and have had no probs since.
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Yes but after Ive done the button pressing etc it still seems too fast even on no1 lowest.
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Yes but after Ive done the button pressing etc it still seems too fast even on no1 lowest.
Ok Klean
Just to compare- All my pipework is standard 1/2" garden hose up to reel which is 90m of 8mm minibore. My flow setting is 1 & my cut off setting is 7 (6 in summer). I get a lovely, constant flow which cuts off about 4 seconds after I disconnect my pole & starts back up almost immediately on re connection with no big fat burst of water.
Press & hold both + & - buttons in together for 3 seconds. This will display the cut off value which ranges from 1 to 9 then A to F (roughly) don't ask me why both numbers & letters. To alter the displayed setting you must then press & hold these two buttons in again for another 3 seconds. The display will now flash & you can alter the value up or down using + or -. The higher the value the more pressure will build up before the pump cuts out.
Now, to KEEP this setting as default you must turn the unit off then back on again, if you don't do this the unit will remain unaltered at what it was before. Repeat this process until you've found what works for you & your personal set up/equipment.
Does that help?
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You can run a pump without a controller and without bypass back to the tank. Just so long as it has a pressure switch fitted such as the Flojets on Gardiners website.
If you have a tap on your pole when you turn it off the pressure switch on the pump turns that off.
You can indeed Matt BUT it runs at full all the time & IMO the pumps own pressure switch isn't a patch on the electronic one.
You can use a relay to work with the pump pressure switch, with the relay doing most of the work. The controller is a waste of time and money the way I used to work. Most people I have come across that are using the controller use it on full power, so they are in effect using a £90 item to do the same thing as a £4.00 relay.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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I have a return to tank it come like that when installed. it defiently does decrease the flow higher the pole specially wen your batterys is getting a bit flat.
Only problem i find with the return to tank tap is just a slight move doesnt half change the flow. but when using the varistream (i have only used the old dail types) you really can get exact amount of water you want per min or whatever
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FAO Winp,
Yes explanation sounds good, but I've got normal garden hose from tank to pump, then same again from pump to di, then same again from di to my 90 metre reel hose, however my hose on the reel is 6mm microbore. Then I had a reducer from garden hose to 6mm microbore on end of reel to enable me to use hoselock connectors for my poles etc. The main problem Ive been having is that because pressure was too high it was forcing the reducer part to disconect every few mins or so.
Ive now changed connectors to the push-fit ones by the way but havent tried it yet.
Kev
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FAO Winp,
Yes explanation sounds good, but I've got normal garden hose from tank to pump, then same again from pump to di, then same again from di to my 90 metre reel hose, however my hose on the reel is 6mm microbore. Then I had a reducer from garden hose to 6mm microbore on end of reel to enable me to use hoselock connectors for my poles etc. The main problem Ive been having is that because pressure was too high it was forcing the reducer part to disconect every few mins or so.
Ive now changed connectors to the push-fit ones by the way but havent tried it yet.
Kev
Exactly the same set up as mine Klean but I have TWO DI's & 8mm reel hose.
It seems that a varistream works much better with 8mm hose than 6.
From my tank to my DI's I used 1/2" barbed elbows for all bends, these are only secured by plastic tie wrap not jubilee clips. They've never even leaked let alone blown off, that's how little pressure is required in my system. This is one of the many reasons I don't use 6mm hose.
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I have 6mm microbore and have used three different pumps over the years they all tended to settle around near maximum pressure and very near maximum flow. I think 6mm is too restrictive to be honest and makes the pump work far too hard. If I change anything this year I think it will be my hose.
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Ok thanks for that wimp. I changed hose bcus everyone kept saying how good 6mm was. Oh well something to think about anyway. Cheers.
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Its Winpro not wimp I think you'll find. Dont want no underhand insults or Perfect'll start moaning again ;)
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Its Winpro not wimp I think you'll find. Dont want no underhand insults or Perfect'll start moaning again ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D
It's winp the wimp :D
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Have to agree with Peter Fogwill. If I was doing it again I would not use a flow controller because I find these days I keep mine on the same high setting anyway so effectively im just using it as an inline power on-off switch. A tap on the pole hose is a must though and just let the pump pressure switch do the work. I recently burned a Shurflo pressure switch out but replaced it with a Maplin microswitch for around £1.50.
Each to their own but I don't think I would buy another flow controller again.
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Have to agree with Peter Fogwill. If I was doing it again I would not use a flow controller because I find these days I keep mine on the same high setting anyway so effectively im just using it as an inline power on-off switch. A tap on the pole hose is a must though and just let the pump pressure switch do the work. I recently burned a Shurflo pressure switch out but replaced it with a Maplin microswitch for around £1.50.
Each to their own but I don't think I would buy another flow controller again.
AJM why don't you fit a relay? you won't burn out the pressure switch again. The relays are very heavy duty but if they do burn out they are much easier to replace than the microswitch. I am sure there is a diagram of the wiring on my forum.
The pump controllers are just very expensive PWM's with built in pressure switches.
Peter
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I already have a motor speed control flow controller Peter, its an old style one with none of the fancy digital controls to go wrong.
The pressure switch I referred to is on top of the Shurflo pump and I probably go through about 1 every 8 to 12 months.
They are only about £1.50 from Maplins and I can change one in about 10 mins so not really a problem Peter.
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I already have a motor speed control flow controller Peter, its an old style one with none of the fancy digital controls to go wrong.
The pressure switch I referred to is on top of the Shurflo pump and I probably go through about 1 every 8 to 12 months.
They are only about £1.50 from Maplins and I can change one in about 10 mins so not really a problem Peter.
AJM/Anybody
Hi,
Can you please give me a part number for the pressure switch that you are buying from Maplins?
Also, how does it fit to the top of the Shurflo pump - is it identical? Do you have to seperate the 'pressure pad' from the switch (if you know what I mean)
Thanks.
Mike