Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ronnie paton on December 21, 2010, 06:02:59 pm
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after the recent THREAD i would just like a small insight on business profits percentages and maybe a rough out expenses value.
my reason is after certan claims i question if im paying to much out on expenses and could make more profit......i was hoping we could achieve this on the other post but it was locked.
to mods please dont lock this could help all businesses become more proffitable and has we all know profit is the name turnover is just the game....
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I think there is a real misunderstanding from certain users here on the term profit.
If I wanted I could rearrange all my cost of sales, make them an expense and hey presto my gross profit looks fabulous.
Net profit however would remain the same.
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I think it all depends if your a sole trader or only have a few blokes then the profit margin in percentage would be higher than a company who pays out wages has an office,yard and number of employees,but the real figure is pound notes and I see it this way the more profit the more tax you'll have taken off you but better to make 200k and pay 40% tax than 35k and pay 25%.Businesses go through many stages from start-up=low profit even minus profit to an establish one that has everything in place and sailing along in old escort vans or a business that is pushing forward and investing in vans equipment and training the profit would be lower but in the long run should be fitter and keep going.It is always good to review profit margins regularly and see where you can improve without compromising your business and never worry too much what the competition are doing as we never see the full picture.
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I spent some time thinking about this Fred, and who he might be, but then it dawned you had probably misspelt thread.
I agree with the above about profit- all three of you.
When i started wc i genuinley beleived it could make me rich.Now i don't think this.I can see unlimited growth (limited only by my competence to manage) but as the growth occurs margins lower. Most notably 20% vat and wages and costs.
Millionaire? twenty employees over twenty years, maybe, this time next year? not this time rodders.
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after the recent fred i would just like a small insight on business profits percentages and maybe a rough out expenses value.
Even if everyone told you theirs exactly i'd question how its any use to you. Also you can't give a 'rough out expenses value' as everyones is different. And everyone operates different.
my reason is after certan claims i question if im paying to much out on expenses and could make more profit......
Only YOU will know the answer to that based on your own circumstances. You shouldn;t use anyone else as a yardstick.
i was hoping we could achieve this on the other post but it was locked.
to mods please dont lock this could help all businesses become more proffitable and has we all know profit is the name turnover is just the game....
Again, it won't help. If i was to advise everyone ditch their RO systems and just fill tanks with taps and use DI only as time is money you'd think i was mad. But thats what some people do as it works for them. Should we all buy new vans and renew every three years, or buy three year old vans and renew every five years? Pay staff 'a good wage' to keep them happy or pay minimum wage because we know we can replace them? Should we charge cheap and go for quantity, expensive and go for quality? Commercial work or residential work?
All them ways do work. Only yourself can tell if its profitable enough.
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mike good post but if we do we can pick and choose what we might want to change, yes we run the business but sometimes you can be doing things that effect your PROFIT and could change this with help of others.
i do use di only and only cant consider buying a brand new van when after a couple of years i get them so much cheaper but im positive im doing some things than can be changed to hel my business.
so i guess i dont agree with"only yourself can tell you if its profitable enough" if you have nothing to comapre it to course you think it is otherwise why the hell would you do it that way?
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Ronnie
I will give a little of my thinking.
I have been after a large pressure washer for quite some time. Something more than the norm.
In the buy and sell section one came up the other day 7500psi at only 100kgs of weight (a bit of a brute) but because it runs on petrol it will cost me £20.00 per day as opposed to under four pounds a day of red diesel. I left it because it was too expensive to run!!!
I try and make those decisions every day!
Rob ;D
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i should of though more in deph when i choose my van has at the mo i go through 80 per van a week and im not getting 400miles i would expect
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Am I correct in remembering that you no longer work full time in your business (I mean physically getting your hands dirty)
Rob ;D
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I'm a bit at sea with this and what you are expecting. I though clearly clean explained it very well.I'll chuck in a couple more examples.
A trad guy has ladders on a range rover.He pays five guys forty pounds a day cash in hand and collects and admins insisting on cash payments only.He under declares but likes to trouser four hundred a day.
Another guy has a great business but spends his life living in a caravan hundreds of miles from home.
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hi rob thats not so correct at the moment the weather and the new work increase has put a stop to that
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i should of though more in deph when i choose my van has at the mo i go through 80 per van a week and im not getting 400miles i would expect
ronnie if you were to buy a merlin say 230 quid
you would save a fortune in resin costs truth
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I have a short term vision, middle term vision and long term vision.
The first two are coming to an end and I am expecting in the next twelve months to be going into the long term vision and managing my business activities.
My activities over the last four years have been to show several clients the necessity for a proven external cleaning services contractor. There was not one before me. It was always an add on to another contractors remit but now it is being recognised and my business is in demand.
I live in a converted van (caravans are for grandads and travellers!!!) and even this has been thought through as the most economical means of working away for a week at a time.
The framework is in place, I know what I have to do to replicate all areas of my business and moving forward I can employ people under relatively comfortable circumstances, with nominal overheads and maximum profits.
The business model has proven to work and I can see my aspirations being realised not misguided or beaten down by listening to negativity or wrong advice.
I wonder which part of my business, that just happens to be with all of the major supermarkets you fail to understand. As an addition the website is also being redone and will become another marketing tool that I have failed to utilise but will see additional interest in what is to offer.
Rob ;D
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rob well done you are more experienced in life and in business than me, you have to a t the best way your business runs.
me on the other hand proberly should of mastered my clients needs and my business needs before i started employing and growing(which may well have been to quickly) but i live and learn and can say im still growing now
like i say im always learning, im pretty sure rob you learn athing or two as well.
i admire your attiutude and what you have a achieved, one thing iv learnt is never take your foot totally of the pedal and or take your business for granted it wont run its self.
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Are you talking to me rob? Did you i think was digging at you? Not so.I've always followed what you say/ your biz.You sold a residential, i would never have had the nerve to do that.You had the gold biz before that.See, i'm a student and an admirer.
I have wondered what price living away from home, that much is true.
You do have a unique business and probably could roll it out.
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Ronnie
We first met years ago and I know that you will achieve what you are looking for but I remembered reading that you had come away from main business activities and that shocked me.
Sorry I was talking to you Slump. I thought you were having a dig!
My home life is private but what I will say is I do not have many of the restraints that others have on here and for this I am thankful.
This allows me to spend money on the business development that I would not ordinarily be able to do.
I have gambled with my marriage and more than once I have been very close to being a full time gypo. I have promised my wife this year it will change and I have the machination in place to make this happen. It is only a case of replication now.
If I may be honest Slump I will say I would like to meet you, I think you are like me and I believe that if you keep going you will have a succesful business. You are a thinker though and I hope you don't think too deeply rather than making it happen.
Sometimes a gamble is worth it. Listen less on here and find like minded people whos' energy you can draw on when you are feeling less than fully charged.
I wish you well
Rob ;D
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common sense = profit
dont buy brand new gear unless its profitable. (except poles)
buy second hand vans (not too old though)
service vans twice a year yourself to get extra fuel economy and save money on garage bills
get an r.o. there really is no excuse not to, you can fill them at night, so how is that wasting time ::)
dont buy a house with a water meter
claim all expenses, fuel, clothing, van, insurance, mobiles, internet, phone, charity, mot, public liabilty, breakdown cover, tyres, parts, poles, filters, laptop, etc.
price high.
work 5 days a week (not for me thanks)
simples.
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Sometimes it pays to continue trading, even if you are making a loss.
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everyone is different with different outgoings, i cant see how not beleiving others will get anyone anywhere...
there is a certin someone in swansea, who has a very good window cleaning business and from what i gather his outgoing are tiny as he plans everything to the tee, iv seen his vans and web ect and he really is on the ball my windy mates all say the same and his attitude is more or less as dirty windows said, , he knows so many people in the trade ie, vans sales window cleaning supplies and has so many customers his work load so high, he's beating his overheads by a mile, leaving hudge profits....iv seen some of his hosues he cleans , 35 and 45 pound a clean, he got the whole area,,,,,jealous much!! good luck to him
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leights everyone outgoing are the same but there are same basic that everyone must have ie vat when you hit the threshold wage if you employ, holiday sick and employees liabilities, insurance vans and employees, fuel and vehicle maintenance cost, equipment expenses to name a few.
i guess by your figueres you dont have these ;)
its not about doubting i know has i run a business with a current turnover of over double what you said your was, its about finding ways of cutting expenses
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i know a good few ways of cutting exps,
more that one way to skin a cat...
just to throw a spanner in the works.... i have the guy clean my contracts in london as he's a window cleaner himself, i pay him x ammount, but leavs me with a massive % for me for doing basicly the paper work. i dnt pay him no holls or sick pay or anything, just an agreed amount between the two of us, for the cleans....its worked a while now and will work for a while to come....
i knew where you were coming from , just din mention things 100%, but there you have it, all out in the open, i have my round i have thos contarcts and have a third guy in wales with me when im in the shi t and behind...
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this wont effect vat?
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i know it doesn??
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depends what you want!
im happy staying as a one man band with low overheads and a half decent round.dont want the hassle of employing(again!).
the simplier i keep my business and life the happier i am. :D :D
i have spent a fair few grand this year on van/wfp equipment/logo d uniform etc etc but its been well worth the expense with a healthy profit to boot plus im much safer in my worklife now.
the place i live in is cheap to rent and ive no wife or kids so im laughing at the moment!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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just a few ideas ive had
1, if you have people working for you get a rev limit and speed limit put on the vans will save on fuel and running costs
2, things that you use alot or lose alot (scrims) through out the year buy in bulk for bigger discount.
3, always shop around for the best prices for large purchase.
4, open a high intrest websaver account for for the tax/profit money
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well sed that man.....
but if you earn 75k be prepared for a grilling.......lol
this is fuc k ing brilliant hahaaaaaaaaaaaa.
im pi s s ing my self here , how some people are so serious in life, yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :P :P :P
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well sed that man.....
but if you earn 75k be prepared for a grilling.......lol
this is fuc k ing brilliant hahaaaaaaaaaaaa.
im pi s s ing my self here , how some people are so serious in life, yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :P :P :P
Make the most of it, looks like another forum you'll be banned from ::)
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pardon me
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well sed that man.....
but if you earn 75k be prepared for a grilling.......lol
this is fuc k ing brilliant hahaaaaaaaaaaaa.
im pi s s ing my self here , how some people are so serious in life, yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :P :P :P
Make the most of it, looks like another forum you'll be banned from ::)
cant wait for that to happen ;D ;D ;D ;D
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We all remember you from windows tools, especially when you had a pop at that kid who made is own trolley system, then you got the hump with everyone who asked why is you 250 Lt system is fitted to one side? You told the forum you had a demo from ionics with the pro7 thermopure, and was ordering straight away.Leighton(SPELLING) calm down and we will all get on just fine.
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Just wondering - why can you save by getting second hand equipment but not poles - why is this - because they get worn quickly???
Rob
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ewan, that prob the best thread iv read, real advice for a forum, well done that man!
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Ronnie P. How do you monitor your outgoings and how often do you analyse them?
Do you have a "spreadsheet where "every" outgoing has it's own separate listing and you can see at a glance when they rise and fall and for what reason?
So many to choose from, but lets say fuel costs for example:
Eg. They run at around £100 per week, but every 7th week they go to £180.00, is there a reason for this? Could there be a different way of scheduling the work that week, to bring this down?
Staff & wages. Is the schedule maximised, could they be doing just one more job per day?
There is so much that can be changed,but you need to have the info to hand all the time to monitor and analyse. :)
I've known other business work on 80% to the business 20% all expenses and they failed ::)
I've know other businesses work on 60% all expenses and 40% to the business and they failed too ::)
It's all about what works best for you and monitoring regularly where your money is going :)
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helen thank you i believe i do need to do more monitoring
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Dirty Windows are you a Limited company?
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helen thank you i believe i do need to do more monitoring
You're welcome.
IMO, 1 hour a week spent monitoring what "happened" in that week is 1 hour well spent.
Always look for a way to improve what you already do :)
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piddling about with pennys wont help.My suggestion is you run your business better.The best way to do this is use the forum to find the better ways that you need.Even summarising your operation to me you will probably start to see some of your own shortcoming.
How many vans/guys, who or how do they get.
1. water
2. job sheets
How does collection work, how does marketing work?
I expect every answer would involve some errors but your ego probably wont let you take the tanking you need. Of course this is going to be antagonistic, but those who can dish it out should learn to take it.
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Slumps if I wasn't ready to change things I wouldn't question my own running of my business would I? Course i know things can be improved that's why I'm asking. Ego?? Sorry but do you know me?
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Ronnie
Have you got enough work for three of you. I know you have said that you have recently gone back on the tools but previous to that you had come off them - so two people were doing the work.
Is there one two many people in your operation at the moment??
Rob ;D
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Hi rob at the moment probably not but to much for two and with the admin and general running costs doing new quotes and chasing new work.
Take yesterday for example I spent day with mrs and was never off phone emailing or picking up when it's like that it's not always productive to be on tools.
I am guilty of becoming to comfortable and being lazy ut if got my mojo back so to speak.
I will post so
E expenses I believe I could cleave money on while at purefredom today has illhave plenty of spare time.
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for all the hassle of employing and extra overheads ronnie do you really make much more money than some of us one man bands?
i seem to remember a while back that you said you earned on average £25 an hour from when you leave the house in the morning until you take the keys out of your van on your drive in the evening.
with the extra expenses etc is it worth it?
dazmond
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ronnie patton............stop talking ronnie talk, i mean toilet talk.. e mailing and chasing new quotes hahaaaaaaaaaaa, dnt make us laff, u were on here crying over my figures, trying to make end meets, trying ti think which bill you coming out next, hahaaaaaa
what a hot head!! ??? ???
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Ye your right Layla I mean I'm sat in Grimsby waiting for my 14k Van and hot system to be ready but still earning money because I'm struggling to make ends meat.
Got q7 on drive cause I'm about to go bump........I'll be fair I'm bot making 66% profit like you alledge but iv proved your talk through your poo pipe.
If that's what making ends met is about I don't half mind it ;)
Iv realised why your system is fitted on one side it because if it wasn't your big fat head would make your van tip so know the 250l just abouts keeps
It grounded maybe you should
Do the same.
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oooooooooooooooo gotta ya, was that a bite mate...
no point bragging about the audi on the drive, i have a new meagne and 3 vans plus a husqi 410 for the sunday i go off and ride....
u sed , u keep chasing work son , u hang in there..
admittly the tank in the escort was at first in the middle at the rear, as that was my only van at the time, it was just a question of space and that....sorted now though...
u dnt like it when its fired bk do you!!!!
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Your comparing a megane with a Audi q7 just continues to show mentality or sad mental state. :-*
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does it, o right, thats figures for you.....
im tick free son, you just remember that
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after the recent THREAD i would just like a small insight on business profits percentages and maybe a rough out expenses value.
my reason is after certan claims i question if im paying to much out on expenses and could make more profit......i was hoping we could achieve this on the other post but it was locked.
to mods please dont lock this could help all businesses become more proffitable and has we all know profit is the name turnover is just the game....
ronnie ive been flicking through a book
winning at window cleaning from tecbuk
only had a chance to glance at it
but it explains the percentage and how it changes to income (I think,didnt get to finnish the chapter)
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Ye your right Layla I mean I'm sat in Grimsby waiting for my 14k Van and hot system to be ready but still earning money because I'm struggling to make ends meat.
Got q7 on drive cause I'm about to go bump........I'll be fair I'm bot making 66% profit like you alledge but iv proved your talk through your poo pipe.
If that's what making ends met is about I don't half mind it ;)
Iv realised why your system is fitted on one side it because if it wasn't your big fat head would make your van tip so know the 250l just abouts keeps
It grounded maybe you should
Do the same.
Are they all payed for though? Or are your personal & business debts just increasing?
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first question is irelevant
second question is a good one winproclean
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first question is irelevant
second question is a good one winproclean
I think both questions are relevant Alex as they both basically ask the same.
Personal possessions & business assets mean diddly squat in relevance to how well someone might be doing!
I know many, many examples of people who have them but in reality haven't got two half pennies to rub together. They have no disposable income anymore & basically just manage debt. ;)
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A fine example of this would be Manchester Utd!!
Rob ;D
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A fine example of this would be Manchester Utd!!
Rob ;D
even better
the UK
and most banks
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The car is a business asset why not it makes perfect sense why fork out my self for a depresating asset?
I am a director and if this business does well I do well by the way it was paid for cash.
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The car is a business asset why not it makes perfect sense why fork out my self for a depresating asset?
I am a director and if this business does well I do well by the way it was paid for cash.
So it's just a business expense that's losing value every day but not adding any value?
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If I transfer profits to me we pay 21% corporation tax the depression comes of expenses. Win win
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If I transfer profits to me we pay 21% corporation tax the depression comes of expenses. Win win
Won't this affect how your business looks on paper when you want to sell it?
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without having a pop here because im not......but i honestly think ppl make to much work for themselfs
with talk of VAT
bussiness profits and what not i think ppl complicate things
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The car is a business asset why not it makes perfect sense why fork out my self for a depresating asset?
I am a director and if this business does well I do well by the way it was paid for cash.
So it's just a business expense that's losing value every day but not adding any value?
;D Don’t over think it winproclean, it only needs common sense coupled with advice from professionals to keep within the rules.
I'm not the one spouting about "profitability" ;D ;D ;D
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It's classed has a asset so if I sold next year now it would increase the value the year before it may well devalue has profits would be less
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I take this in to
Consider the profitable think
About i want it does it make sense formmemto
Buy... No.
Never mind there is one way to
Increase profits
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I'm always a bit rude because i don't really want to do the analaysis anyway.It's always hard to take critisism, you are not alone in that Ronnie and it would feel a lot like me just slagging you off. Which is not what i'm about at all, it just seems that way.
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;D Don’t over think it winproclean, it only needs common sense coupled with advice from professionals to keep within the rules.
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There's no one solution that will work for every business, but there are three key areas that every business can consider when aiming to increase profitability. These are reducing costs, increasing turnover and increasing productivity, and increasing efficiency.
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thats 4 ;D ;D ;D
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Roonnniiee..how ya doing buddy...how the tables have changed, i c ur getting some flak...hahaaaaaa...
So its a business asset, so that means u need business insurance for it as it was a cash payment, which i dought very much...buying from business money when vat reg, claiming much bk then?? Thought not...il have u know my megane is on no tick and it was only 13k. I paid upfront and drove out rather smug...my vans are paid out right, il addmit i only have just under 4 k left in the business account as iv bn spending lately, but we both know it floods in from baccs....in no time...u slated me for making an honest reply because your profits were under mine...and u were jeaouls...fact.. evryone else then jumped on the band wagon......hope u in joy ur repayments and also enjoy my post for u on brodex flying the flag high.......
Tip..........read duncan banitynes book. Anyone can do it.......he makes mince meat of people like you......
Byyyyeeee
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Leights, how much do you pay your mum a week?
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Layla or bbs has your better known you have made your self look a complete k n o b you lie and can't back up why you say.
Iv shown you with just a rough guide how far out your profits are you can't show a vat number cause your no by registered.
By the way you can't claim vat back on a second hand car you mong believe don't believe am I bothered ? When I get some time I'll take a pic of of my set ups.
So now you have 3 vans you've paid cash for them
But it has affected your profits you jot claiming it back?
By the way thins flack it's constructive criticism which I can take, I know my q7 affects my profits(not so much now has it's paid for) but the positives out worth the negatives.
But seriously bbs what do you know about anything the day I take
Advise from you I need to give up...... But I don't mind showing you the ropes you can be my project changing a Mong into a business man.........at a fee though plus you'll be able to claim the vat back I charge you
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as ronnie says sometimes it is good to buy things through business as it lowers your tax at the end of the year, true the stuff you buy does depreciate but i would rather this happen and me enjoy the benefits of top class business car rather than give it to the taxman by the way leights how are you employing and not paying holiday with pay and nic and if it is on sub contract basis then i am sure the insurance premium you qoute doesnt cover this, you may be achieving what you say but you will be trading in a way that is far from legal and this will certainly limit any future growth, i have found as a business grows many new expenses arise that effect your profit margin greatly and it can take quite a time before you see the benefits of any growth but each time you take the right steps it puts you on a better level to expand further this is why a lot of firms that expand too fast end up failing as the infrastructure and costs of expansion are too great for the business to support.
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Lol ronnie. Are u biting..i think u r....
U now will be know as sweeite ok..
So swettie...icecream for 2 ??pmsl xxx
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What a vast difference between the last two posts. Trevors post makes interesting reading and makes a lot of sense whilst Leights just comes across as a thug who just has nothing to offer, can barely read or write and has no place on this forum.
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His brain will be almost certainly be affected by the absorption of toxic soot particles through the soft tissue of his appendage which will have occurred while he was giving his van or vans a good "bumbing",an act he has freely admitted on here.
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first question is irelevant
second question is a good one winproclean
I think both questions are relevant Alex as they both basically ask the same.
Personal possessions & business assets mean diddly squat in relevance to how well someone might be doing!
I know many, many examples of people who have them but in reality haven't got two half pennies to rub together. They have no disposable income anymore & basically just manage debt. ;)
businesses cost, mine are between 5k-7k each year
living expenses cost, usually much more for most people
assets mean everything dont know how you can say they mean diddly squat
cash is important if youve been window cleaning 5 years or more
and carnt afford cash for an ionic system and van
find another trade or start learning quick
managing debt or money is what everybody does
its one or the other
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first question is irelevant
second question is a good one winproclean
I think both questions are relevant Alex as they both basically ask the same.
Personal possessions & business assets mean diddly squat in relevance to how well someone might be doing!
I know many, many examples of people who have them but in reality haven't got two half pennies to rub together. They have no disposable income anymore & basically just manage debt. ;)
businesses cost, mine are between 5k-7k each year
living expenses cost, usually much more for most people
assets mean everything dont know how you can say they mean diddly squat
cash is important if youve been window cleaning 5 years or more
and carnt afford cash for an ionic system and van
find another trade or start learning quick
managing debt or money is what everybody does
its one or the other
Sounds like it's you who needs to do some learning boyo! ;)
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always willing to learn mate
it never stops ;)
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always willing to learn mate
it never stops ;)
;) ;)