Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jarvy on December 19, 2010, 04:08:26 pm
-
I have been reading with intrest on the water heating elements in the tank ideas,must admit it seems a good 'un. However what i have been wondering is how would i be able to mount an element at the bottom of an upright tank like the one i have?? I can't get my arm near the bottom of the tank to tighten the nut up on the inside of the tank? Or am i just reading it wrong on how they are mounted?
-
u should just be able to seal it in with the right stuff, if memory serves me right it should have a nut on it to tighten it
-
I could probably get my arm about half way down inside the tank to tighten it up at best. Don't suppose that would be too bad,just would look a bit odd. Couldn't just seal it in either,with the weight of the water in the tank,and movement of the van moving the water about i can't see that lasting 2 mins before it starts leaking or worse still comes out and there goes all the water !!!
-
then i have no idea how to seal it in
-
I have a 650 litre ibc,
i simply put it down as far as my arm would reach,
yes , you need the locking nut as well as sealant, underwater sealant from b and q around 7 quid,
it heats all water above the element, mine is on a timer from 4am until 8am,
then i turn it off mix it up with a stick, or turn the pump on and re-send it back into the tank .... then turn on the element again for an hour.
but to be honest by the time you get to you first job, the hot water will mix with cold and give you nice warm water all day,
and i have lagged my tank. ;)
-
what locking nut, as when i use to fit them when i was a plumber they use to just screw in, and i never need a locking nut, any one got a pic
-
what locking nut, as when i use to fit them when i was a plumber they use to just screw in, and i never need a locking nut, any one got a pic
A copper hot water tank has a threaded flange pre-fiited.
-
the £13 mech flange is by far the better option, more stability, helps to disperse heat , easier to fit and also should you need to replace your element in the future it makes it a lot easier.
-
well its a mechanical flange really, which can be bought and fitted in a immersion heater, but i used it as a locking nut and seal....
see below....
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Heating/Central+Heating/Immersion+Heater+Flange+2+14/d230/sd2708/p31429
-
the £13 mech flange is by far the better option, more stability, helps to disperse heat , easier to fit and also should you need to replace your element in the future it makes it a lot easier.
That's the one I've gone for. Also, if you ever want to take the element out for any reason, you can just fit a threaded blanking plug so your not left with a hole in your tank! ;D
-
well its a mechanical flange really, which can be bought and fitted in a immersion heater, but i used it as a locking nut and seal....
see below....
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Heating/Central+Heating/Immersion+Heater+Flange+2+14/d230/sd2708/p31429
That's not a mechanical flange Gazza.
-
The mechanical flange does not have a full through thread, it will not do. You need the round locking flange and a sealant that is heat resistant.
-
well its a mechanical flange really, which can be bought and fitted in a immersion heater, but i used it as a locking nut and seal....
see below....
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Heating/Central+Heating/Immersion+Heater+Flange+2+14/d230/sd2708/p31429
That's not a mechanical flange Gazza.
i know , sorry i changed my toolstation link.... the one above is fine, when used with sealant,
-
This is what i first posted , but its rather expensive ;)
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Heating/Central+Heating/Mechanical+Flange+2+14/d230/sd2708/p38614
-
How did you feel about cutting a nice big hole in the tank?? If it is not done right 1st time then its game over real quick!! ;D
One of these submersable heaters like in the fish tanks i have seen people using on here is the quickest solution,but they don't make a powerfull enough one unlike the water tank elements. I have seen a 1000w version,but its quite a lot of cash for what it is. The 3kw elements can be picked up for under £20 (plus extras i know) but it seems like a bit of a faff trying to get it in an upright tank.
-
Just do it, it wont take long,.. and you dont have a hole in the tank.... its an element blocking the hole,.... when you sell the tank on, get a blanking cap to screw into the flange.
get a 63mm drill bit then use a file or sandpaper to make a real tight fit and it actually sits in the hole very very tightly.
-
i used 65mm and still had to ream it out a little
-
On a 250lt tank,and a 3kw element how hot would the water be after a couple of hours? Too hot or not enough? Just thinking if i did go ahead and do it i would put it on a timer so it comes on a couple of hours before i started work. Or 3 hours or however long it takes to get hot!
-
the £13 mech flange is by far the better option, more stability, helps to disperse heat , easier to fit and also should you need to replace your element in the future it makes it a lot easier.
So have you used the mechanical flange in your tank then Lozsing?
-
yes done 3 tanks altogether mine and 2 mates
-
i have a 350 and have it on for 5 hours,i am on economy 7 so it costs me 15p an hour to run
-
yes done 3 tanks altogether mine and 2 mates
Great, that's the one I've ordered. I also ordered one of the other type though just incase. ;)
Did you still have to use sealer on the mechanical one or just the washers? Domestic cold water tanks use these type fittings (albeit smaller) for inlet/outlets & require NO silicone etc.
-
Fitting these is not as easy as you first think. First of all, the tank thickness means that only a few millimetres of thread comes through to the inside of the tank. Then, the mechanical flange will not fit as the thread stops way too short on the flange which is designed for a thin copper water tank, you need the round flange. The round flange will not tighten properly by hand so you will need a 2 1/4 inch open end spanner for the outside and something like an oil filter wrench to grip and hold the rounded flange on the inside. There will be no space for any of the supplied washers, the tank is too thick. You will need heat resistant silicon sealer because the normal water proof stuff peels off with the heat that the hot water creates. Movement will occur when the van is in transit, water will be sloshed around moving the element so make sure the element and flange are as tight as possible with the correct sealer.
I made an ass of my first attempt and these points are what I have learned. So far on the second go, all is good.
Good luck.
-
Fitting these is not as easy as you first think. First of all, the tank thickness means that only a few millimetres of thread comes through to the inside of the tank. Then, the mechanical flange will not fit as the thread stops way too short on the flange which is designed for a thin copper water tank, you need the round flange. The round flange will not tighten properly by hand so you will need a 2 1/4 inch open end spanner for the outside and something like an oil filter wrench to grip and hold the rounded flange on the inside. There will be no space for any of the supplied washers, the tank is too thick. You will need heat resistant silicon sealer because the normal water proof stuff peels off with the heat that the hot water creates. Movement will occur when the van is in transit, water will be sloshed around moving the element so make sure the element and flange are as tight as possible with the correct sealer.
I made an ass of my first attempt and these points are what I have learned. So far on the second go, all is good.
Good luck.
That was a concern of mine to be honest. So, are you saying then that the mechanical flange can not be fitted to a standard wydale tank?
-
I don't know what that tank is, in fact I don't even know what my tank is. All I do know is that my tank thickness is 5/8 of an inch. The thread on the element is 7/8 of an inch long. You don't have too much to play with. The top of my tank is thinner but it is impractical to fit up there.
-
I don't know what that tank is, in fact I don't even know what my tank is. All I do know is that my tank thickness is 5/8 of an inch. The thread on the element is 7/8 of an inch long. You don't have too much to play with. The top of my tank is thinner but it is impractical to fit up there.
Ok Ronnie, thanks
That seems thick for a tank wall, that's over 1/2"!
A waydale tank is just the standard size tanks that all the wfp suppliers sell. They're usually white or clear(ish)
Do you think this is your tank?
-
Thats what my tank is ( Clearish ) there is only just enough thread to get the backing flange on.
Tip.... there seems to be slightly more thread on the longer element for some reason, i couldn't get the flange to screw to a 14" element but when i changed it for a 27" one it was OK.
The feeling of having drilled a 2" hole in the bottom of a perfectly good tank and the element not being long enough is one i have no wish to repeat ;D
-
I reckon my tank wall's are no thicker than about 1/8" & certainly no more than 1/4"
-
Thats what my tank is ( Clearish ) there is only just enough thread to get the backing flange on.
Tip.... there seems to be slightly more thread on the longer element for some reason, i couldn't get the flange to screw to a 14" element but when i changed it for a 27" one it was OK.
The feeling of having drilled a 2" hole in the bottom of a perfectly good tank and the element not being long enough is one i have no wish to repeat ;D
That must be the normal flange then Dennis? I'm referring to the mechanical one, which the element then fits into separately.
-
Yes I have 2 tanks, one is a spare. It's just a normal looking tank as you describe and to be honest I was surprised how thick it was when I drilled through. The mechanical nut flange will still fit and tighten if you fit it back to front, the trouble with that is it does not provide a good tight seal indside the tank because the flange part is then not in contact with the tank wall. The round flange is ideal if you have a wrench that will grip it tight enough while you tighten up the large nut attached to the element on the outside. Also do use the heat resistant sealer. The normal stuff will just peel off in hours with the heat that is involved. As I found out to my cost.
-
Yes I have 2 tanks, one is a spare. It's just a normal looking tank as you describe and to be honest I was surprised how thick it was when I drilled through. The mechanical nut flange will still fit and tighten if you fit it back to front, the trouble with that is it does not provide a good tight seal indside the tank because the flange part is then not in contact with the tank wall. The round flange is ideal if you have a wrench that will grip it tight enough while you tighten up the large nut attached to the element on the outside. Also do use the heat resistant sealer. The normal stuff will just peel off in hours with the heat that is involved. As I found out to my cost.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Heating/Central+Heating/Mechanical+Flange+2+14/d230/sd2708/p38614
Is this what you are talking about Ronnie?
I can't see how it could be fitted back to front as this would mean you'd have to fit the element on the outside then?
-
That is the flange I bought, I am no expert by any means but I could not get the flange to screw in because there is no thread close to the actual flange part, which should be against the tank wall. Perhaps you can fit this flange in another way that I have not thought of. If you think I have got it wrong I would honestly appreciate it if you let me know. I still do not feel 100% confident that this will hold for ever the way I have it.
-
That is the flange I bought, I am no expert by any means but I could not get the flange to screw in because there is no thread close to the actual flange part, which should be against the tank wall. Perhaps you can fit this flange in another way that I have not thought of. If you think I have got it wrong I would honestly appreciate it if you let me know. I still do not feel 100% confident that this will hold for ever the way I have it.
Thanks Ronnie
Mine should be coming tomorrow (although with the weather it might not)
I do have some plumbing experience, albeit, I've never actually had to fit one of these for this application. I will let you know what happens & how I get on. I did actually order the normal, round flange too as a back up.
-
(http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx154/jrwindows/432c6475.jpg)
-
What tightens that to the inside of the tank though? You could just do that with the element itself. I tightened an element flange inside the tank but the movement soon made for leaks.
-
It is in 2 half's and inside the tank is a ring bigger than the thread. So when you screw outside up it becomes solid.
-
Thanks JR. Did you notice how thick the wall of your tank was by any chance?
-
On my wydale tank it's about 5/8 thick so I bought a round rasp and attached to a small cordless and cut the inside of the tank so there was enough thread to screw together.
The one in the pic is 1000ltr ibc and was only 3mm thick so it was easier.
-
I have to say, I shocked that wydale tanks are 5/8" thick!! :o :o
Mine's nearly 7 years old, I'm hoping they made them thinner back then, it certainly doesn't feel that thick :-\
-
That was just a guess, but the sides are thicker than the plastic on the screw cap. Doesn't matter how thick it is once you chamfer the inside it's thin enough to screw the flange together.
-
That was just a guess, but the sides are thicker than the plastic on the screw cap. Doesn't matter how thick it is once you chamfer the inside it's thin enough to screw the flange together.
Thanks JR
Did you have to use any sealant/silicone etc with the two piece flange?
-
I put sealant on the outside of the tank where the threads came through, then ptfe'd the thread and screwed the outer on tight. The ptfe'd the thread on the element and screwed in to the flange. ( that sounds wrong)
-
I put sealant on the outside of the tank where the threads came through, then ptfe'd the thread and screwed the outer on tight. The ptfe'd the thread on the element and screwed in to the flange. ( that sounds wrong)
Cheers ;)
-
Interesting looking setup there JR, I may well have to copy this if my existing (untested) setup leaks..
Could you clarify what you meant by "It is in 2 half's and inside the tank is a ring bigger than the thread", scuse me for being a bit dim but my brain can't see how it tightens...
-
The back ring that goes into the tank is fully threaded, so the outside part screws up
(http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx154/jrwindows/b13890d2.jpg)