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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Neil Gornall on December 12, 2010, 06:50:40 pm

Title: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 12, 2010, 06:50:40 pm
With the temps being a major problem this year I decided to give the heater element a try like a few others on here.

I fitted it yesterday (sat) and so far it seems to be working very well.

For those who may be a bit cautious I would say give it a go its simple. I dont see this as a long term solution to working with hot water but as a short term way of keeping us working it certainly does the trick.

I took a few photos whilst fitting it so thought I would post them here in the hope it may help others see just how simple it is.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 12, 2010, 06:54:21 pm
a few more
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 12, 2010, 06:56:04 pm
more
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 12, 2010, 06:57:47 pm
last 2
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: BORBRYCE on December 12, 2010, 07:04:38 pm
Cheers Neil, I just ordered all that stuff this morning. What size hole saw is that? I have lost some of mine, also the rubber seal, did you fit it inside or out.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: poole bay on December 12, 2010, 10:13:51 pm
how long does it take to heat mate
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Matthew Bateman on December 12, 2010, 10:38:20 pm
Not as long as it takes to download 10MB of images I'd imagine.

You could enjoy 90 secs of a porn movie for that amount of bandwidth. Doesn't anyone on here know what a picture resizer is?

No bloody wonder the forum is so slow.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Matthew Bateman on December 12, 2010, 10:41:04 pm
I have resized the first pic, it shows everything you need to show and is 14% the size of the original one.


 ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: FCS on December 12, 2010, 10:43:30 pm
Thanks for posting the pics matey, I had it in my head that it couldn't be as simple as I thought it was, but it looks like it IS!   if that makes sense.     

I'll be buying stuff this week I think.   
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on December 12, 2010, 10:45:08 pm
Superb post Neil. Very good to see the prosess in pics.

Any chance you could list the parts & specs please?
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 13, 2010, 07:38:06 am
Not as long as it takes to download 10MB of images I'd imagine.

You could enjoy 90 secs of a porn movie for that amount of bandwidth. Doesn't anyone on here know what a picture resizer is?

No bloody wonder the forum is so slow.
Appologies Matt, I was just trying to help.
I have removed all the pictures you dont think are worth looking at.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Jack Wallace on December 13, 2010, 07:43:40 am
Is it any wonder newbies dont like posting on here,

As soon as they do they get berated!

We are bloody window cleaners not computer programmers. 

Its a shame as those pictures were very good, and for someone thinking of installing a heating element they showed just how to do it.

Way to go Matt!!!!
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Richard 01903 on December 13, 2010, 09:28:28 am
Where are the pics ??? Would have deen nice to see them all! is there a nut to screw on the immersion thred?
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: scud on December 13, 2010, 04:08:48 pm
Is it any wonder newbies dont like posting on here,

As soon as they do they get berated!

We are bloody window cleaners not computer programmers. 

Its a shame as those pictures were very good, and for someone thinking of installing a heating element they showed just how to do it.

Way to go Matt!!!!

  Neil, as am I, is not a newbie to this site, or to window cleaning in general.

  Neil has been using WFP for a long time and knows his stuff, his business is testament to that, perhaps the time he spends on his work is the reason why he didn't or doesn't know how to resize an image.

  I think what has happened here answers the other post of "where are all the oldies?", perhaps some here should shut up and either take the advice some of us more experienced operators of the kit have to offer, either that or don't bother reading it if you don't want to learn.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: poole bay on December 13, 2010, 04:50:33 pm
going back to what i said how long does it take to heat mate its not worth doing it its going to take 6 hours to heat
 ???
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 14, 2010, 05:18:16 pm
going back to what i said how long does it take to heat mate its not worth doing it its going to take 6 hours to heat
 ???

Not sure why you would think that.
If I leave my element on for 6 hours it costs me 63 pence. I think that is a fair price to pay for a day working with hot water.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on December 14, 2010, 05:39:28 pm
going back to what i said how long does it take to heat mate its not worth doing it its going to take 6 hours to heat
 ???

Not sure why you would think that.
If I leave my element on for 6 hours it costs me 63 pence. I think that is a fair price to pay for a day working with hot water.


I would look again at that neil ;D  I would guess a 3kw element @ approx 12p per kwhour = 36p per hour?
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: formb on December 14, 2010, 05:42:28 pm
going back to what i said how long does it take to heat mate its not worth doing it its going to take 6 hours to heat
 ???

Not sure why you would think that.
If I leave my element on for 6 hours it costs me 63 pence. I think that is a fair price to pay for a day working with hot water.


I would look again at that neil ;D  I would guess a 3kw element @ approx 12p per kwhour = 36p per hour?


I'm on 9.45 per KwH.

£1.70 for 6 hours.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 14, 2010, 06:49:10 pm
going back to what i said how long does it take to heat mate its not worth doing it its going to take 6 hours to heat
 ???

Not sure why you would think that.
If I leave my element on for 6 hours it costs me 63 pence. I think that is a fair price to pay for a day working with hot water.


I would look again at that neil ;D  I would guess a 3kw element @ approx 12p per kwhour = 36p per hour?
I dont need to "look again"  ;D
I got it right the first time.

My tarrif is
13.434 per kilowatt-hour between 07.45 and 00.45
3.500 per kilowatt-hour between 00.45 and 07.45

Therefore if I switch on at 01.00 till 07.00 thats 6 hours @ 3.5p per kilowatt
I have a 3kw heater so thats 10.5p per hour
multiply by 6 = 63p

Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Matthew Bateman on December 14, 2010, 07:03:44 pm
Is it any wonder newbies dont like posting on here,

As soon as they do they get berated!

We are bloody window cleaners not computer programmers. 

Its a shame as those pictures were very good, and for someone thinking of installing a heating element they showed just how to do it.

Way to go Matt!!!!

Jack, those installations were highly dubious to say the least. The cables being used were well below standard for the wattage they were carrying.

Lighting cables for an immersion heater. It would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.

Are you suggesting its okay to illustrate something, using pictures, that's not up to the job, has been devised by an amateur and is being bandied about as something that is perfectly fine with little regard or consideration for others and is an obvious danger?

You might want to turn a blind eye to be able to earn a few more quid, I stand by my principles though. If you dont like it tough.




Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: BORBRYCE on December 14, 2010, 07:23:56 pm
The cable in the remaining picture, the white stuff, looks exactly the same as mine. It is 3 core copper, each with a rubber sheath then wrapped in an outer rubber sheath, heat resistant to 87c, this is what the immersion supplier recommended. It looks identical. ??? If it is only lighting cable, then you really want to change it as soon as though.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on December 14, 2010, 07:29:50 pm
going back to what i said how long does it take to heat mate its not worth doing it its going to take 6 hours to heat
 ???

Not sure why you would think that.
If I leave my element on for 6 hours it costs me 63 pence. I think that is a fair price to pay for a day working with hot water.


I would look again at that neil ;D  I would guess a 3kw element @ approx 12p per kwhour = 36p per hour?
I dont need to "look again"  ;D
I got it right the first time.

My tarrif is
13.434 per kilowatt-hour between 07.45 and 00.45
3.500 per kilowatt-hour between 00.45 and 07.45

Therefore if I switch on at 01.00 till 07.00 thats 6 hours @ 3.5p per kilowatt
I have a 3kw heater so thats 10.5p per hour
multiply by 6 = 63p



 ;D ;D ;D

That IS cheap

I'm on white meter too but my night tarrif is 5p & day time 11p. My cheap time is 12.00 to 08.30 :D
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 14, 2010, 07:47:27 pm
Is it any wonder newbies dont like posting on here,

As soon as they do they get berated!

We are bloody window cleaners not computer programmers. 

Its a shame as those pictures were very good, and for someone thinking of installing a heating element they showed just how to do it.

Way to go Matt!!!!

Jack, those installations were highly dubious to say the least. The cables being used were well below standard for the wattage they were carrying.

Lighting cables for an immersion heater. It would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.

Are you suggesting its okay to illustrate something, using pictures, that's not up to the job, has been devised by an amateur and is being bandied about as something that is perfectly fine with little regard or consideration for others and is an obvious danger?

You might want to turn a blind eye to be able to earn a few more quid, I stand by my principles though. If you dont like it tough.





Matt I am not sure how you can tell from my picture what type of cable I used, I have looked again and can’t see any labels stating its lighting cable. Perhaps you would be kind enough to show me how you can tell.
I will then return to the electrical supplier I bought it from and whose expertise I drew on when I told him what I wanted and what is was for, and tell him Mr Bateman says you don’t know your job.
I don’t pretend to be an electrician (or a computer expert) you however appear to be both.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Neil Gornall on December 14, 2010, 07:50:59 pm
going back to what i said how long does it take to heat mate its not worth doing it its going to take 6 hours to heat
 ???

Not sure why you would think that.
If I leave my element on for 6 hours it costs me 63 pence. I think that is a fair price to pay for a day working with hot water.


I would look again at that neil ;D  I would guess a 3kw element @ approx 12p per kwhour = 36p per hour?
I dont need to "look again"  ;D
I got it right the first time.

My tarrif is
13.434 per kilowatt-hour between 07.45 and 00.45
3.500 per kilowatt-hour between 00.45 and 07.45

Therefore if I switch on at 01.00 till 07.00 thats 6 hours @ 3.5p per kilowatt
I have a 3kw heater so thats 10.5p per hour
multiply by 6 = 63p



 ;D ;D ;D

That IS cheap

I'm on white meter too but my night tarrif is 5p & day time 11p. My cheap time is 12.00 to 08.30 :D
I am with Utility warehouse, Have been with them for years now, very good service and cheap.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Matthew Bateman on December 14, 2010, 08:02:07 pm
It looks like 1.5mm T+E lighting cable. Its round as opposed to flattened. Flattened cable is 2.5mm T+E used for ring-mains and when coiled retains its coiled shape.  1.5mm T+E wont do that.


Lighting cable can be used on immersions but not only up to 2KW rated appliances. For those 3KW ones you need a larger cable to be able to deal with the load. A 3KW load is likely to heat 1.5mm cable to point where it is a very real danger.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: BORBRYCE on December 14, 2010, 08:17:27 pm
A 3KW load is likely to heat 1.5mm cable to point where it is a very real danger

You are getting mixed up by rubber sheathed cable and PVC sheathed cable. I have the cable chart in front of me right now and for a 3000kw heater then 1.5mm rubber sheathed conforming to BS6141..1991, Is safe. 2.5 if the cable is PVC sheathed.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Matthew Bateman on December 14, 2010, 08:33:12 pm
The chart is irrelevant Ronnie if you dont know what cable you're actually going to use.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: BORBRYCE on December 14, 2010, 08:35:34 pm
The chart was attached to the cable I bought, which looks identical to the the one in the photograph.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Matthew Bateman on December 14, 2010, 08:40:17 pm
I dont know what chart you have Ronnie, Im going on what a local sparky told me was necessary for a 3KW load as an unfixed appliance. But from what I can make out from that picture, the white cable is lighting cable.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: BORBRYCE on December 14, 2010, 08:48:55 pm
That's the point. I only posted here for selfish purposes. This post had me a tad worried, but after re checking all the info that came with the recommended cable I am now satisfied I have the correct materials.
I don't know if Neil has though but......it does look identical to what I have. If you look close, the cable in the pic is pretty chunky compared to household lighting but it is impossible really to say.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: paul saunders on December 14, 2010, 08:53:57 pm
It looks like 1.5mm T+E lighting cable. Its round as opposed to flattened. Flattened cable is 2.5mm T+E used for ring-mains and when coiled retains its coiled shape.  1.5mm T+E wont do that.




Sorry Matt but you are wrong about 1.5mm lighting cable not being flat, it is ............. if you don't believe me, unscrew a light switch on the wall and have a look.
The white "round" lighting cable (flex) is commonly used for lamps and ceiling lights.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: Matthew Bateman on December 14, 2010, 08:54:24 pm
To be honest Ronnie, 2.5mm doesnt coil like that in the picture.

Anyway I am going to bow out of these discussions now. At the bery least my points have achieved what Id hope they would and that is that people might look a little closer at what they were doing with this setup.

I am in no way anti this. I think its a great way to manage our working situations in this cold weather. I just think that the fitting of it should be left to those who are competent, capable and able to do so. Im sure you are Ronnie, however I doubt others on here are if their postings are anything to go by.

If Ive made enemies by sticking to what I believe then so be it, at least Ive stuck to my convictions whilst remaining civilised.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: lozsing on December 14, 2010, 08:54:40 pm
I bought all the bits today and was told by electrician that 1.5mm cable is fine as long as its the special cable for immersion heater.
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: lozsing on December 14, 2010, 08:58:20 pm
Matt i think you do well to bow out , do you think all people on here are idiots
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on December 14, 2010, 09:29:44 pm
You are wrong Matt I'm afraid.

1.5mm three core heat resistant is what's required. I've just taken advice from my best mate who's a pro' sparky & owns a large electrical contractor business.

This is also what's fitted to my domestic 3kw immersion heater & looks exactly like the one in Neil's photo. ;)
Title: Re: Immersion heater working well
Post by: geefree on December 15, 2010, 12:14:05 am
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=113729.0

there is a photo if you click the link and scroll down a bit...

think it may help, it has the element pictured with the correct cable