Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pureclean Essex Services on December 10, 2010, 12:30:02 pm
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is this the end of the L5, i was thinking of getting one myself after xmas, now i think i'll stick in the immersion element on a timer, heat up for around 2 hours or so, and away i go, should last the best part of the day at least, and there's no insurance issues about carrying gas bottles, result !! ;D ;D
Brian.
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insulate your tank and it will keep the water warmer for longer too, think i will be going down the immersion heater route when i eventually want hotter water, it doesnt get too cold where i am and 3 fish tank heater are enough for me at the moment
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I ordered an L5 before Steve started the immersion heater thread.
I am expecting delivery any day.
Having already fitted the immersion heaters on most of the landys, I reckon I'm not going to bother with the L5.
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i cant beleive that no one did the immersion heater thing before, its so simple really,
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i cant beleive that no one did the immersion heater thing before, its so simple really,
Do'h
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i cant beleive that no one did the immersion heater thing before, its so simple really,
If you search back, some of the DIY guys were talking about it 2 years ago.
At the time is was rubbished by people here, it then moved onto the DIYWFP forum, Matt was building a 100 L super trolley for the winter with a immersion heater in 2 years ago. Duke also did something with a backpack
Matt has spoken to a Legionnaires' disease guy and the guy has concerns about the idea, it is on the cleaning forums
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Another hot idea (Matt Bateman)
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=87339.0
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I dangle 600w towel rail heater rods from string into the25L containers, dont let them touch the plastic, I was a tad concerened bout using 3kw Gazz is doin a good job but was worried about the wiring.
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This is what works for me and might be of interest to others who use 25 litre barrels.
I load up the previous night ( I like to get in and drive straight off in the morning - I'm not a morning person ;) ). I then leave a 2Kw thermostatically controlled heater ( £14 ) in the back of the van blowing toward the barrels through the night. Doesn't use much power as the van is a small space to keep heated. Result - warm water in all the barrles and better still - a nice warm van to get into.
I can do this easily and safely as my van is in my garage overnight.
As others have said, providing you keep the barrels covered the water stays warm for ages.
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i cant beleive that no one did the immersion heater thing before, its so simple really,
I did it a couple of years back but had no end of problems with the fuses tripping. It was then that an electician put me right on how an immersion heater should be attached to the house electrics.
There were also issues with running electricity outside that I hadn't dealt with.
What with that and the Legionnaires' problem I decided it was a bad idea.
I have expressed my concerns here but have been accused of having my head stuck up my arse.
There is a very good reason why after several years of trying the idea has been shelved.
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I just received an L5 shower unit and I must admit it looks like a quality bit of kit.
My dad is considering doing a landrover camper conversion.
Looks like it will have a shower now. :)
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Legionairres disease? How? I though that only happened on still water?
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Legionairres disease? How? I though that only happened on still water?
Must admit i don't understand this Legionairres thing to much. I have a storage tank in the house for household hot water, how do i go on with that?
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I just received an L5 shower unit and I must admit it looks like a quality bit of kit.
My dad is considering doing a landrover camper conversion.
Looks like it will have a shower now. :)
why not put it on e-bay, peter from window-tools just sold 1 on there for £190 odd quid??
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Legionairres disease? How? I though that only happened on still water?
Must admit i don't understand this Legionairres thing to much. I have a storage tank in the house for household hot water, how do i go on with that?
Hot water tanks heats above 47 C
It is all in the F A Q on the cleaning forums
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Legionnaires (http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/whatis.htm#how)
Your hot water at home will heat up to 65c+ so this is not a problem.
You will also get some reaction from the immersion heater element which will allow for algea growth.
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"Hot water should be stored at 60OC, although this may be difficult to achieve in older hot water systems which cannot be relied upon to store all the hot water at a consistent temperature. Cold water should be stored at 25OC or less, but with very large storage tanks this may not be possible at all times of the year"
STORED STORED STORED
Stored water is what we're talking about here, our tanks are constantly moving, well mine is anyway, at least 400 litres taken out a day and 400 put back in, it always fresh.
More info ive found
"The fact that water is drawn from the base of the hot water storage cylinder, ie the point at which fresh cold water also enters the cylinder, suggests that extended periods of no flow are highly unlikely and thus deemed to be of very low or negligible risk"
This is from a solar heating company saying its not even a thought. Extended periods! EXTENDED, what 1 day lol.
Come on chaps, this really isnt a worry.
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I can worry about anything if I try hard! ;D
I think it's more of a problem for a holding tank then rather than the van tank.
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Well dont worry, im not ;D
Youd need to store water for weeks for something to happen!
More info
70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant
Legionella will grow in water at temperatures from 20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F). However, the bacteria reproduce at the greatest rate in stagnant water at temperatures of 35 to 46 °C.
The water will be fresh, heated in morning for a couple of hours, transfered to vans and used NOT AN ISSUE
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This is what you want, lads...
http://www.btowstore.com/epages/BT2789.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT2789/Products/IBC (http://www.btowstore.com/epages/BT2789.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT2789/Products/IBC)
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Well dont worry, im not ;D
Youd need to store water for weeks for something to happen!
More info
70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant
Legionella will grow in water at temperatures from 20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F). However, the bacteria reproduce at the greatest rate in stagnant water at temperatures of 35 to 46 °C.
The water will be fresh, heated in morning for a couple of hours, transfered to vans and used NOT AN ISSUE
I think the Legionellae has a case for internet bullying here.
Where is the report to mod button?
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
Me to, just order my L5 and heating the whole tank is just a waste of energy in my view!
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
Me to, just order my L5 and heating the whole tank is just a waste of energy in my view!
How do you think the L5 would handle thawing out a the tank if it is frozen?
Because it needs water to flow through it do you think it would be capable?
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
I am not really interested in hot water, just not frozen water.
The L5 would be great once you get the system going again, but I reckon the immersion is what you need to get the system going in the first place?
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The way I work things is to not have to thaw a system out. Thawing ice takes a lot of time and energy. I have a holding tank where I produce water and my van tank. My holding tank is in an insulated shed with a small heater so there for will not freeze. To stop the van from freezing I transfer any excess water back to the holding tank at the end of the day.
I believe that in sub zero temperatures you don't need hot water but need warm. Cold will just freeze in sub zero temperatures. An L5 in line will give you hot or warm water as needed and very efficiently. At the moment I'm just cycling the water around my van tank through the L5 before I go to work, I've yet to plumb it in line.
If you can get flow through the L5 and back to the tank it would easily defrost a system but I think it's better to not have to defrost the system in the first place.
An immersion is good but I feel the L5 is far better, as I have used both.
Just a word of warning to immersion users, if your going to use it on a timer make sure that the timer can handle the amps. I had one melt on me, the socket timer and plug were all melted together, because of this I feel that a Gas fired L5 is safer.
Simon.
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All my vehicle tanks are fitted in trucks so are exposed to the elements.
Also we have experienced -22 this year (although hot or not I aint working in -22).
This last 2 weeks I have been trying to work in -1 down to about -5. Even if I empty the tanks the system freezes when I fill it back up.
Having a tank of water that is about 15 - 20 is going to give the system a chance to run in sub zero (hopefully), I just dont think the L5 will be capable of that.
I took delivery of one yesterday and I'm not sure what to do with it.
Guess I'll just wait till the next cold snap and see what happens........
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, if your going to use it on a timer make sure that the timer can handle the amp
What timer should I be looking to get. Electrics is not my thing. The element would be 3000
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
Me to, just order my L5 and heating the whole tank is just a waste of energy in my view!
How do you think the L5 would handle thawing out a the tank if it is frozen?
Because it needs water to flow through it do you think it would be capable?
my tank has been insulated ;) and if need (but not yet used) a small very low watt green house heater can be used...
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, if your going to use it on a timer make sure that the timer can handle the amp
What timer should I be looking to get. Electrics is not my thing. The element would be 3000
http://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/DEF/product/!!TS800!!/
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
Me to, just order my L5 and heating the whole tank is just a waste of energy in my view!
How do you think the L5 would handle thawing out a the tank if it is frozen?
Because it needs water to flow through it do you think it would be capable?
my tank has been insulated ;) and if need (but not yet used) a small very low watt green house heater can be used...
I'm still not convinced.
I agree that to be used as a hot water system the L5 would be cheaper but for simply fighting frost the immersion heater looks like the better / cheaper option to me.
I have got an L5 though so I may get proven wrong yet.
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Having a tank of water that is about 15 - 20 is going to give the system a chance to run in sub zero (hopefully), I just dont think the L5 will be capable of that.
I took delivery of one yesterday and I'm not sure what to do with it.
An element will be rated at 3kw the L5 is rated at 11.5kw so therefor is almost 4 times as powerful, even if it is to circulate water before you go and then use in line when at work, it will be more economical and faster to heat up the water.
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Thanks Form b.
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
Me to, just order my L5 and heating the whole tank is just a waste of energy in my view!
if you use a tank full a day its worth heating .
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
on your other thread (Immersion heater in IBC ) you stated it only cost 60 odd pence to heat for two hours, if tank is insulated this would surely last the day, at a cost of £3-£4 for 5 days, this is not bad compared to cost of gas, i'll be honest i have not used either, but was thinking of getting L5, but am more interested in the immersion heater element for my new set up, no insurance issues for carrying hazardous goods.
Brian.
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
on your other thread (Immersion heater in IBC ) you stated it only cost 60 odd pence to heat for two hours, if tank is insulated this would surely last the day, at a cost of £3-£4 for 5 days, this is not bad compared to cost of gas, i'll be honest i have not used either, but was thinking of getting L5, but am more interested in the immersion heater element for my new set up, no insurance issues for carrying hazardous goods.
Brian.
Are you THE real Brian Ferry?
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
on your other thread (Immersion heater in IBC ) you stated it only cost 60 odd pence to heat for two hours, if tank is insulated this would surely last the day, at a cost of £3-£4 for 5 days, this is not bad compared to cost of gas, i'll be honest i have not used either, but was thinking of getting L5, but am more interested in the immersion heater element for my new set up, no insurance issues for carrying hazardous goods.
Brian.
The thread I started is about 2 and a half years old, so the prices are a bit different now. I think that the immersion heater idea is good. It worked well for me for 2 and a half years. I just think the gas heater route is better, although insurance has to be taken into account. However a lot of other trades use gas like plumbers, it's more how it being used, like is it secured are you carrying a fire extinguisher. Also have the insurance company been told. If all these avenues have been dealt with I personally think the L5 is a much better choice.
Not knocking immersions at all, if I run out of gas I'll turn the immersion on before I go to work. If you have freezing temperatures and have no hot system and can't work then I'd be the first to say go spend £30 on an immersion so you can get some income straight away. But cost for cost the L5 is cheaper and I think safer.
Simon.
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A timer is not necessary as the immersion heater has a built in thermostat. Just set it at a temperature and leave it. If the tank is well lagged the energy will not be lost.
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forget all this nonsense just get a propex 2000
heatsource job done ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I've been using an immersion for the last 2 years and it works well, but is expensive to run. I've just got an l5 and have to say it works better and is cheaper to run. The immersion is rated at 3kw where as the l5 is rated at 11 1/5. In short if your stuck and need hot water next week the immersion is the way to go, however if you have time to plan things out the l5 is far better.
Simon.
on your other thread (Immersion heater in IBC ) you stated it only cost 60 odd pence to heat for two hours, if tank is insulated this would surely last the day, at a cost of £3-£4 for 5 days, this is not bad compared to cost of gas, i'll be honest i have not used either, but was thinking of getting L5, but am more interested in the immersion heater element for my new set up, no insurance issues for carrying hazardous goods.
Brian.
The thread I started is about 2 and a half years old, so the prices are a bit different now. I think that the immersion heater idea is good. It worked well for me for 2 and a half years. I just think the gas heater route is better, although insurance has to be taken into account. However a lot of other trades use gas like plumbers, it's more how it being used, like is it secured are you carrying a fire extinguisher. Also have the insurance company been told. If all these avenues have been dealt with I personally think the L5 is a much better choice.
Not knocking immersions at all, if I run out of gas I'll turn the immersion on before I go to work. If you have freezing temperatures and have no hot system and can't work then I'd be the first to say go spend £30 on an immersion so you can get some income straight away. But cost for cost the L5 is cheaper and I think safer.
Simon.
hi simon, sorry did'nt realise it was that old, as i said i have'nt used either so have no knowledge of both, think i'll get immersion fitted in tank, as this is the cheapest option to start, and see how it go's regarding cost, then maybe use as as back-up, and then go down the L5 route,either way i think warm is better ;D
Brian.