Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james stanley on December 08, 2010, 08:54:58 pm
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Hi all, i have a cold water system from brodex which i am more than happy with, however i am thinking of adding on isothermal diesel heater to enable me working with hot pure water. would this help me working in the winter? or is it just a gimmick? going to cost 2400 quid from pure freedom, plus about 6 quid a day in diesel.
Should i spend or just stick to cold water window cleaning?
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i have one and would say 'get it' having another system in my other van that is cold i have seen the benefits in just 2 weeks. the hot system has worked everyday and my cold system has sat on my drive frozen
It doesn't cost £6 a day either in diesel
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Is that the fitted price £2400?
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yes with a frame too :)
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i have one and would say 'get it' having another system in my other van that is cold i have seen the benefits in just 2 weeks. the hot system has worked everyday and my cold system has sat on my drive frozen
It doesn't cost £6 a day either in diesel
steve if uve 2 foot of snow either side of the road and cars not been moved for nearly a week , you cant get parked up anywhere to do the work , what benifits dos your hot water system have then ?
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does the hot water system not freeze on the glass then? steve?
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james
what size heater is that for as i thought it was 3k fitted for the 9.2 kw maybe youve bin quoted for the 5.2kw
just wondering as this is sumthing im seriously thinking of
thanks
dave
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I have to say from all the talk of hot systems over the last 2week I'm not sold? The snow we've had in notts would have required big foot to transport the heater to the jobs! The temperature for me has only beeb 25% of the problem, obviously the guys who have panicked and got 1 have to say there great, but unless there any good at moving 2ft of snow what's the point? To me the obvious answer is to realise that if this is how the winters are going to be simply set more aside through the year to compansate instead of blowing your earnings on the latest bit of nonesense? I've seen posts on here from people who bought l5 3-4 month ago in preperation for the winter and are now having problems with them 1 week into what looks like a really bad winter, iv got enough gear to worry about and maintain without adding to it.
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hi dave , yes it is the 5kw heater i was quoted for 2400 fitted. as i work on my own they told me at pure freedom i would only need the 5kw heater. not sure i will bother though cuz it costs about 6 quid a day to use with the diesel usage and is it worth it anyway, as app hot water freezes up anyway, true or not?
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im led to belive that hot is also better in the summer as well as winter
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james
i think its the 9.2kw on full power that uses about 1ltr an hour also i thought the 5kw would only get the water warm and not hot but i could be wrong
dave
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I have to say from all the talk of hot systems over the last 2week I'm not sold? The snow we've had in notts would have required big foot to transport the heater to the jobs! The temperature for me has only beeb 25% of the problem, obviously the guys who have panicked and got 1 have to say there great, but unless there any good at moving 2ft of snow what's the point? To me the obvious answer is to realise that if this is how the winters are going to be simply set more aside through the year to compansate instead of blowing your earnings on the latest bit of nonesense? I've seen posts on here from people who bought l5 3-4 month ago in preperation for the winter and are now having problems with them 1 week into what looks like a really bad winter, iv got enough gear to worry about and maintain without adding to it.
i couldnt have worded it better .
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they told me at pure freedom that the 5kw produces hot water but only good enough for 1 person, unless i misunderstood them? I know the hot water cleans better than cold but is it worth spending 2400 just to clean the windows better? or would this really help with the present arctic conditions? sick of the sight of jeremy kyle now! need to get out there!
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james
i hope your right as this would save me £600 as i work on my own and only require a 1 man set up
think i will call them tomorrow and ask again
and imo i think hot would be beter all round thats just my personnel oponion
dave
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as app hot water freezes up anyway, true or not?
Not true. Hot water does not freeze. Water at a minus temperate freezes. I sometimes wonder if some of you went to school.
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I'm sure hot would work a lot better on first cleans conny roofs etc but I'm 100% happy with the results I get with abit of tfr a £1.99 bottle of upvc restorer and cold pure water and so are my customers so £2000 for hot water?? Really??
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as app hot water freezes up anyway, true or not?
Not true. Hot water does not freeze. Water at a minus temperate freezes. I sometimes wonder if some of you went to school.
;D ;D ;D tidy mike ;D ;D ;D
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Clean my own house today 2pm with hot wfp, after 10 minute the windows all froze up. I will be back to cold water tomorrow.
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they told me at pure freedom that the 5kw produces hot water but only good enough for 1 person, unless i misunderstood them? I know the hot water cleans better than cold but is it worth spending 2400 just to clean the windows better? or would this really help with the present arctic conditions? sick of the sight of jeremy kyle now! need to get out there!
what is the reason you are watching jeremy kyle ? is hot water going to stop you watching jeremy ?
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Clean my own house today 2pm with hot wfp, after 10 minute the windows all froze up. I will be back to cold water tomorrow.
I cleaned mine today trad, with cold water. The excess i hadn't scraped off the sills froze. The windows where fine though. But when you're cleaning in sub zero temps what you need to be looking at is not how long it takes water to freeze on the glass or sills (because that is what it will do) your concern operating WFP is going to be if it freezes on the brush head? With hot water it won't. If you're operating cold in sub zero temps it will freeze.
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what benifits dos your hot water system have then ?
you could add it to a mug with a tea bag and get a cuppa?
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mike ru a jw by any chance bud?
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I have to say from all the talk of hot systems over the last 2week I'm not sold? The snow we've had in notts would have required big foot to transport the heater to the jobs! The temperature for me has only beeb 25% of the problem, obviously the guys who have panicked and got 1 have to say there great, but unless there any good at moving 2ft of snow what's the point? To me the obvious answer is to realise that if this is how the winters are going to be simply set more aside through the year to compansate instead of blowing your earnings on the latest bit of nonesense? I've seen posts on here from people who bought l5 3-4 month ago in preperation for the winter and are now having problems with them 1 week into what looks like a really bad winter, iv got enough gear to worry about and maintain without adding to it.
i couldnt have worded it better .
also agree ... going to struggle thru for this year and save more for next Dec / Jan also told missus no summer holiday 2011 but taking it in Dec or Jan instead.
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mike ru a jw by any chance bud?
I suppose you could say ' i know the truth ', but i don't think any JW will agree with my version. I get my info and beliefs from old 'arry in our pub !!! Who happens to be mingin' !!! I rather like the fact they socialise mainly with each other, suits me fine. When they knock my door i show them my pole, we're all happy !!!
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as app hot water freezes up anyway, true or not?
Not true. Hot water does not freeze. Water at a minus temperate freezes. I sometimes wonder if some of you went to school.
This is what Rhinoman thinks.......
Some choose not to believe it, but this phenomenon can be demonstrated in your own freezer under the proper conditions.
If you have two pails filled with equal amounts of water, one hot and one cold, and you set them out in the snow on a cold winter's morning, what happens?
What Should Happen
Any reasonable person would think that the hot pail would take longer than the cold pail to freeze. After all, the hot water needs extra time to reach the same temperature as the cold pail. When the hot pail finally does reach the same temperature as the cold pail initially was, the cold pail should already be frozen.
What Actually Happens
There are several things that help the hot pail freeze faster than the cold pail. Here are what is thought to be the most significant factors:
Layer of ice forms on the top of the cold water.
The hot water is more likely to be supercooled. This means that the hot water's temperature is more likely to cool to temperatures below zero degrees Celsius. In the cold non-supercooled water, ice crystals form and float to the top, forming a sheet of ice over the top of the water, creating an insulating layer between the cooler air and the water. This ice sheet also stops evaporation. In the hot water that has become supercooled (thus, no longer hot) the water, when it does freeze, freezes throughout, creating more or less of a slush before freezing solid.
Why is hot water more likely to be supercooled? Because hot water is less likely to contain tiny gas bubbles. Gas bubbles form from dissolved gasses as the water cools. When the hot water was heated, these dissolved gasses may have been driven out. In cold water, ice crystals use the tiny bubbles as starting points for formation (in physics, we call them nucleation points). But in the hot water, there are no bubbles, so there aren't as many starting points for the ice crystals.
Dissolved gasses also lower the freezing point. Since heated gas is less likely to contain dissolved gasses, it's more likely to freeze first.
Water in the hot water pail evaporates at a much faster rate than the cold water. This does two things.
First, the process of evaporation is endothermic, which means it takes energy for something to evaporate. As a molecule of water evaporates, it leaves the surface of the water and flies into the atmosphere. Thus, in simplified terms, the molecule converted heat energy into kinetic energy (energy of motion). Since the hot water evaporates quicker than the cold water, it loses heat energy quicker than the cold energy.
Second, since some of the hot water evaporates away, there is less water left to have to freeze.
The hot water pail will melt the surrounding snow. Later, as it begins to freeze, the snow around the pail will freeze back so that it more closely "touches" the pail. The cold water pail is then only sitting in fluffy airy snow, while the hot water pail is in a form fitting ice-crust. The ice-crust will obviously conduct the cold better that the airy snow.
Other factors, such as convection currents (the movement made as hot water rises while cool water sinks) may or may not play a role in this odd phenomenon.
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In reply to the above post on 'The Mpemba Effect' yes it will freeze faster in a bucket as it supercools.
But mike is correct on glass and NOT in a container it will not freeze faster.
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I think there is a very small window in the temperature where a hot system comes into it's own. You can just about get away with cold at -2 as the very minimum temp, below that you need heat down to maybe -4 if you are lucky. Any colder than that you might as well stay in bed.
Just my thoughts and I might be wrong 'cos I haven't got hot. ;)
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I would be frightened to death to put warm water on freezing cold glass
Can imagine it instantly shattering especially single glazing
Not like it is cheap to but either