Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: derek west on December 05, 2010, 11:32:25 am
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thinking of doing a college course, it starts in january for 10 weeks, 3 hours a week. £155 for the course, £400 for dreamweaver.
any thoughts on this. would i learn much. wouldn't mind building a few websites of my own and being able to edit them would help. is this a good start?
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I would do a course on video filming & editing, from what people say google now own youtube etc..etc
so making videos will be a needed skill and very marketable if you were to branch out.
but isn't wordpress a better website option?
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Hi Derek. I spend a lot of time on Lynda.com. £25 per month for unlimited access (no contract) with exercise files to follow along with. Its like having a personal coach whenever it suits you.
http://www.lynda.com
Hope that helps.
Rab
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I would do it D, its a useful thing to know, also Dreamweaver can be got for much cheaper than that!
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Derek, if you do it what do you think it will achieve for you?
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Wynnes got a point, I can use Dreamweaver but my sites are done in 1&1 templates because its so easy and hassle free. I would recommend 1&1 to anybody who wants a site, you could have one up in a couple of hours.
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good question wynne
i want to design my own websites with an understanding of HTML. and i want to understand SEO.
i have 4 website ideas i want to develop.
yes i could get someone to do them for me but then theres editing and updating and ongoing SEO. it makes sense to understand all this my self so i can keep the websites fresh and up to date.
these are mainly carpet cleaning websites so its not like i need a degree in understanding and getting them ranked.
i could buyt a book or two but i'm not focussed enough to do it this way.
i also want to do this course with my son who doesn't live with me, he's quite good at websites and taking a keen interest in this as a path for the future, it would give us something interesting to do together and it would help me to help him to achieve his goals if he decided to go for it as a business. he's 14 by the way.
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I can entirely understand the last reason Derek.
A dreamweaver course won't teach you any SEO
I think some people get off on all the geeky stuff rather than an end result that gets the phone ringing. It's a personal choice but I know which I'm more interested in.
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Hi
If your interested in the subject matter then do a course.
If you want a professional website or several get a professional Website Designer to do it.
Dave
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Derek,
I've got Expression Web, Microsoft's similar version, which I wrongly assumed was just a quick step up from Frontpage.
Given the choice of that or Dreamweaver now, I would go for Dreamweaver due to the large number of third party plug ins and accessories available.
if you do go for it, then a ten week course would be a minimum. you are talking full on Pro web design software. Without learning standards based coding you are wasting your time. Both myself and Robert Watson have had times when the computer has nearly gone through the window trying to do some "simple" thing that ends up wasting a whole day. I reckon it took about a year to fully move from Frontpage to EW. Your course is a must.
Unless I need to build a full on site, I'll use Wordpress nowadays.
On the plus side, if it's a decent course, you'll get a lot of fun and satisfaction out of building sites. Best of luck.
Garry
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cheers garry
its a night course run by one of our local colleges. 3 hours on a wednesday night for 10 weeks so 30 hours tuition in all, plus if i buy it we can practice what we've learned at the weekend. dya think that'll be enough to get a good understanding of it all?
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Things move so fast in the web world what you'll be learning today will be old hat tomorrow, it's not just 3 hours a week for 10 weeks it's most likely 3 hours a day for eternity IMO.
Wasn't that long ago when website linking was the hot topic and blogs again IMO you need to make it a full time occupation to keep up, okay you may get a decent site up there but some new whipper snapper will do the 'in thing' and he'll trump you... well, until another comes along, I would earn the money from cleaning and re invest with a good web company who you trust.
Shaun
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It's a really sensible move the college course (I wish I had done that).
Wait till you start slicing graphic designs. You can have absolutely unique designs that way.
Have a look at this company... http://www.webassist.com/
They do a fantastic little training course for only $20.00, which shows you how to take a graphic design and turn it into a website using Dreamweaver.
They also do a monthly membership thing where you can use all of their expensive add ons. For a few dollars a month, you get access to loads of things that would cost hundreds to buy separately.
As I said, in hindsight, I wish I had bought Dreamweaver instead.
Garry
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thinking of doing a college course, it starts in january for 10 weeks, 3 hours a week. £155 for the course, £400 for dreamweaver.
any thoughts on this. would i learn much. wouldn't mind building a few websites of my own and being able to edit them would help. is this a good start?
Ive done it already.. to be honest I would not do it again, unless you are doing web design as a living just pay someone
I had this site done for £235 www.masterclean.com
and this for $50 www.carpetcleaningcrawley.com
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Good luck with it Derek, the discipline and doing something with your nipper that you both enjoy is reason enough.
I spent today doing an personal audit. Where I am and where I want to be. I hope you all do this from time to time, it's very easy to be blown 'off course' if you are not vigilant.
I'm just wondering as you read this now, what's important to you and are you going all out for it?
Cheers
Wynne.
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The course is very good at Sir jd, but it wont just be three hours a week if you want to get anything out of it, lots of time will be needed for you even just to get a very basic understanding. It would also help to have even just a basic understanding of HTML and CSS, if you havent alot of it will go straight over your head.
Building a basic site, amending text, adding pages, pics and uploading is easy and you will learn how to do it from the course, but only with alot of time reading and studying the notes which are mostly emailed to you from the tutor Gill. Very basic seo is covered I think. She will advise what books to buy and which sites to visit on CSS etc. Fireworks and photoshop will also be on your shopping list, the course in Jan uses cs5, but any recent version of it is ok, I have cs4.
Comparing some of the wysiwyg programs some have mentioned on here to dreamweaver is like comparing an old morris minor with a new bentley ;D
Dont think your lad will be allowed on the course as its adult learning, but you can ask.
And give me a shout before you buy it ;)
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cheers garry wynne and paul. i'll be gutted if me lad can't do it, might just paint a tash on him and say he's 20, ;D
i'll ring tomoz and find out, sounds like just what we're looking for, he's been teaching me a little HTML, seems pretty straight forward, well its not rocket science ;D
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Wow, thats a big step Derek.
I hope it goes well for you and you learn something useful.
But here's the honest, slap in the face, speak how it is reality. It takes years to learn pro building of sites, there are so many variables it crazy. Sure you might learn how to upload pics and do text but thats about as much as your gonna take in.
Then there is the brain damage on graphic design which is a must if you want your sites to look good. Photoshop CS5 is an example and honestly this is a whole course on its own.
So what I'm saying is, you will be wasting many many many more hours trying to work stuff out - that potentially your business could suffer from.
Sorry to be blunt, I'm not trying to deter you and I admire your get up and go. But we have to accept that we sometimes cant do everything and have to get help sometimes.
Good luck if you choose to go ahead - let us know how you get on!
Mark
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Wow, thats a big step Derek.
I hope it goes well for you and you learn something useful.
But here's the honest, slap in the face, speak how it is reality. It takes years to learn pro building of sites, there are so many variables it crazy. Sure you might learn how to upload pics and do text but thats about as much as your gonna take in.
Then there is the brain damage on graphic design which is a must if you want your sites to look good. Photoshop CS5 is an example and honestly this is a whole course on its own.
So what I'm saying is, you will be wasting many many many more hours trying to work stuff out - that potentially your business could suffer from.
Sorry to be blunt, I'm not trying to deter you and I admire your get up and go. But we have to accept that we sometimes cant do everything and have to get help sometimes.
Good luck if you choose to go ahead - let us know how you get on!
Mark
But hes not wanting to be a pro web designer Mark, hes wanting to learn how to build basic sites and how to upload them. The course will give him the tools and the confidence to do this. You are right it does take a very long time to learn how to be good at it, this will tie up valuable time on other things. One thing I do know.... with a bit of time and effort he will be able to build sites that others are charging good money for, he wont have to wait for them to add a bit of text or change a picture, its good to learn and Sir JD's is very good.
Derek, your right HTML isnt rocket science, but wait until you see what css can do to it :o if you have the spare time, it will be well worth it.
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I would echo the sentiments of the above.
The thing is, if you want to put a professional website up and running you can do it by using the templates avalable for next to nothing and no one will know any different. AND they will look just as good! And they are well developed.
Start getting into stuff such as Dreamweaver and focusing on web design, then you are departing from your business and family etc...
It will ultimatly take a lot of your time and even then you will probably get ped off with it.
That said, web design continually evolves and you may have to keep up to date with what is going on...it's an art on it's own.
It's good to have ambition, but best to have it focused on your core business.
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my sons got the thumbs up to do the course so as soon as ive spoke to the tutor we will be enrolling, cheers for all the info guys, fingers crossed we get something out of it.
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my sons got the thumbs up to do the course so as soon as ive spoke to the tutor we will be enrolling, cheers for all the info guys, fingers crossed we get something out of it.
Good news Derek, ive done a few courses over the years at Sir JD's and other places, you dont get any qualification or certificate with the dreamweaver one but it is very good if you put plenty of time in practising what Gill teaches you. It can end up ruling your life though if your not careful.
You'll be frying your brain with this and a fire and flood course eh ;D
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Fancy Derek, a mere carpet cleaner, being allowed to use Dreamweaver! ;D
Derek, you will need a twin monitor set up to see the program and the "published" site.
Ideally you'll have at least one wide screen one to display the program on (no sideways scrolling).
The good news is that your lad will probably pick the whole thing up in no time at all.
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dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning, but whatever what do i know as i want customers to respect my business but then i don't respect other businesses or something. go for it. £400 well spent ;)
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Derek,
This might not mean much now but may come in handy later.. http://layouts.ironmyers.com/
I stand to be corrected here but I think Dreamweaver has quite a few standard templates included anyway. Can any Dreamweaver owners let us know?
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dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning,
Adam,
Have you had some bad experiences with it?
I was looking at a Microsoft forum recently and some people seemed very anti Dreamweaver (I guess they would). Is their something that Derek should be aware of?
Garry
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the simplest way to explain is it what i said above.
"dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning".
go onto a forum for website building and say i need my carpets cleaned, many will say "i rented a rug doctor and it did a good job, don't bother getting it professional done as you can do it just as good yourself".
we all know rug doctors are terrible, but plenty in-experienced users think otherwise and will defend how good they are. i can't be bothered to get into another debate about this subject as plenty don't have the experience to know that dreamweaver is not a good choice for building sites so i'd be arguing and getting no where. respect the business and get advice from the pro's is my advice, don't go asking carpet cleaners for something they aren't trained in
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Hi,
What would your choice be over Dreamweaver?
Rab.
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?
I just asked a question because I was interested in your opinion. No other reason.
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which programme would you suggest for website building?
and would knowledge of dreamweaver be transferable onto another programme, like knowing how to driving a car would help learning how to drive a bus ( if that makes sense)
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gary: sorry i didn't mean i'd get into an arguement with you, but i know others have done in past with me and i'm tired after the one with the other gary for the last few days.
robert: all you need is a decent browser like firefox, notepad++ (http://notepad-plus-plus.org/) and www.tizag.com or www.w3schools.com. that's where i started and is where most professionals i know start. start with this and you wont learn any bad habits and will learn exactly what you need to know. if you want a decent site then but don't want to learn this stuff imo there is no short cut, you can't just run an easy to use program to make it just as you can't rent a rug doctor to get clean carpets. my suggestion is hire someone to do it for you. as derek is interested in getting a few sites together i'd suggest learning how to do it properly so he has the best chance of doing something decent.
mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.
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No problem Adam, I can see where you are coming from now.
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the simplest way to explain is it what i said above.
"dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning".
go onto a forum for website building and say i need my carpets cleaned, many will say "i rented a rug doctor and it did a good job, don't bother getting it professional done as you can do it just as good yourself".
we all know rug doctors are terrible, but plenty in-experienced users think otherwise and will defend how good they are. i can't be bothered to get into another debate about this subject as plenty don't have the experience to know that dreamweaver is not a good choice for building sites so i'd be arguing and getting no where. respect the business and get advice from the pro's is my advice, don't go asking carpet cleaners for something they aren't trained in
gary: sorry i didn't mean i'd get into an arguement with you, but i know others have done in past with me and i'm tired after the one with the other gary for the last few days.
robert: all you need is a decent browser like firefox, notepad++ (http://notepad-plus-plus.org/) and www.tizag.com or www.w3schools.com. that's where i started and is where most professionals i know start. start with this and you wont learn any bad habits and will learn exactly what you need to know. if you want a decent site then but don't want to learn this stuff imo there is no short cut, you can't just run an easy to use program to make it just as you can't rent a rug doctor to get clean carpets. my suggestion is hire someone to do it for you. as derek is interested in getting a few sites together i'd suggest learning how to do it properly so he has the best chance of doing something decent.
mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.
Adam what on earth has the web browser firefox got to do with building a website, one thing only! Seeing what it views like in it... thats it.
Dreamweaver cannot be compared like you have posted. Adobe creative suite is the industry leading program, DW is just a small part of it. Nothing else even comes close. If it does please let the forum know which program it is as the ones you have mentioned aren’t wysiwyg software, DW does the lot it works alongside fireworks flash and photoshop as well as using it as an ftp program. Go and have a look at all the macs in web designers studios near to you, they will have adobe creative suite installed on every one and use it every day, so do the rest of them all over the world.
Do me a favour and look at your one of your own websites, www.greencleansolution.co.uk (http://www.greencleansolution.co.uk) in a 800 x 600 screen resolution.... then look at the other www.cleansurrey.co.uk (http://www.cleansurrey.co.uk) on a blackberry, enough said I think. Your posting about something that you seem to know very little about.
My point is.... if you know about html and css DW is without doubt the best wysiwyg program available.
The course you are trying to put down is very good even for someone with a basic knowledge of html, the tutor doesn’t allow the student to use of the hundreds of templates available with DW. She starts with the very basics and over the 10 weeks with a lot of homework and looking at many sites like w3 you have mentioned and buying and reading books, someone can build a basic good looking website that will look good and work in all screen resolutions, firefox and mobile browsers. They will also learn how to make templates themselves.
Yes learn html and css from other sources, but when you do dreamweaver is a very powerful tool if you learn how to use it.
Regards,
Paul
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meh i disagree. firefox has alot to do surely as you just quite clearly pointed out, it shows what it'll look like! imo this is important :)
yes on a small screen my site doesn't load as nice as on a larger screen but i planned for this. i didn't want to design for small screens as i know they're a tiny percentage now. i look at my stats and i know so few visitors have screens that small so i just don't care, just as i don't care for users of ie6. just as i decided i wanted a good unique design site for cleansurrey.co.uk. i made the choice knowing i may lose a tiny percentage of customers as they can't see the site fully (but those same customers will have similar issues with many other sites) but i'll impress far far more of the visitors that view my site. so often customers say how they chose my based on the site alone.
but so what? what on earth has this to do with my views on dreamweaver? i don't see how me making the choice to design to a standard i'm happy with as i don't believe i should continue to cater for a tiny minority has any relevance in this thread?. this is my opinion on design choice, nothing to do with the program i use to make a site. you could argue with me i should use a darker shade of green as on bright monitors it's hard to see some of the text, does that mean my opinion of dreamweaver is wrong?
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meh i disagree. firefox has alot to do surely as you just quite clearly pointed out, it shows what it'll look like! imo this is important :)
yes on a small screen my site doesn't load as nice as on a larger screen but i planned for this. i didn't want to design for small screens as i know they're a tiny percentage now. i look at my stats and i know so few visitors have screens that small so i just don't care, just as i don't care for users of ie6. just as i decided i wanted a good unique design site for cleansurrey.co.uk. i made the choice knowing i may lose a tiny percentage of customers as they can't see the site fully (but those same customers will have similar issues with many other sites) but i'll impress far far more of the visitors that view my site. so often customers say how they chose my based on the site alone.
but so what? what on earth has this to do with my views on dreamweaver? i don't see how me making the choice to design to a standard i'm happy with as i don't believe i should continue to cater for a tiny minority has any relevance in this thread?. this is my opinion on design choice, nothing to do with the program i use to make a site. you could argue with me i should use a darker shade of green as on bright monitors it's hard to see some of the text, does that mean my opinion of dreamweaver is wrong?
Adam your digging yourself in to one big hole, someone who knows what they are doing when building a website should make it look right in all browsers, screen resolutions and mobile devices. You are right not many people still use older browsers and 800 screens but have a look at the stats for iphones and blackberrys, I get a high % on mine, any site can very easily be made to look right in them all. I'm not going to argue with you, you can have your opinion on DW, my point is it is the industrys leading wysiwyg software. This is a fact and nothing else comes close. You very clearly have no experience in using it so why comment on it.
mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.
Yes as I guessed you have never used the program properly ::)
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did you make dreamweaveR? you seem to have taken such offense that i've said not to use it that you now have to roll your eyes at me? i admit i haven't used it too long so that everyone knows my opinion is based on limited use of the software (for good reasons) and you still rolls your eyes at me?
ok so just to confirm, bringing up my design choice had absolutely no relevance to this thread? it was just something to show that as i made in you opinion a bad choice with my design (which i think many customers disagree with) then this backs up your belief that i've made a bad choice by saying not to use dreamweaver?
no i haven't used it for much time as it's no good. others may think i'm incorrect as how can i know it's no good if i haven't used it for long periods of time, but go back to the rug doctor thing, i've never used one either, does mean my opinion of it being rubbish at cleaning carpets compared to alternative methods is invalid? of course not.
imo if you want clean carpets buy a professional machine and learn how to do it properly, or it pay someone who knows what they're doing to do it for you. if you want to learn how to make websites don't use a program that'll do it all for you. learn to make them properly or pay someone else to do it. don't take short cuts as you'll end up with many other problems.
notepad++, firefox, fireftp extension for firefox, xampp, photoshop a decent simple to follow website like tizag.com, and focus is all you need. it's harder but gives better results.
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Don't set him off again, you'll never hear the end of it.
I think he means well, don't forget he's only 22 and thinks he knows everything.
I've had some news today that is really going to set him off ;), glad I'm not him :-X
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Hey Adam,
Just done a bit of digging ;D
Tell everyone who built the site you claim to have built all by yourself.. heres a clue from the meta tags..
<meta name="page-author" content="Adtrak Services Ltd (www.adtrak.co.uk)" />
And the html on the one you might have built yourself isnt to hot is it ::) ::)
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleansurrey.co.uk%2F
Night ;D
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Don't set him off again, you'll never hear the end of it.
I think he means well, don't forget he's only 22 and thinks he knows everything.
I've had some news today that is really going to set him off ;), glad I'm not him :-X
couldn't resist could you gary? i think i know everything? are you talking about me or you? look at what you've just claimed and realise you've just come onto a public forum, completely unprovoked (once again) and said about how I am the one who thinks i know everything. does anyone else not think this sounds extremely ironic?
to anyone unaware the mention of me being only 22 is of course another insult from gary. he doesn't think age has anything to do with it as mentioned in a previous thread, but has mentioned it on here to take the p once again.
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happy mondays: what is your problem? this thread is about dreamweaver and you go digging for dirt to make my views on dreamwaeaver some how invalid.
check again anyway there is no mention of adtrak. you've searched a completely different site and got muddled up. anyone with knowledge will look and see you're wrong but it's clear your intentions.
you've also listed invalid mark up but so what? you've listed errors which don't give any problems what so ever as they aren't anything to worry about. i could worry that it's not valid mark up but why? what's the problem with it being invalid? do you go onto the site and it crashes?
i know plenty of carpet cleaners can relate to this as they don't follow the rules to the book. i'm sure plenty use products that aren't wool safe certified on wool carpets. it's what happens. you don't need valid mark up. ohh i haven't used & but instead just & oh naughty me. i guess my opinion of dreamweaver must be incorrect now. come on please roll your eyes at me now happy monday.
to others reading this post. wait until someone with experience comes into this thread and backs up my claims and proves what happy monday has just said to be very wrong before you judge please. he's been very foolish and negative and i'm unsure why. perhaps he's got an issue that as i disagreed with him he's now on a hate campaign against me, i could be wrong, but it's unprofessional at least.
also just thought i'd say sorry derek. i wanted to give advice as you asked but appears once again can't go a thread with gary jumping in to attack or someone derailing it for no reason.
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http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21&warning=0&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleansurrey.co.uk%2F
oops your not to hot on css either eh ;D
take my advice, buy dreamweaver and go on a 10 week course, see how you go with it, then tell me its no good ;D
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Adam I am honestly not taking the pee.
In my opinion your replies bear no relevance to what the original poster wants to gain from this course, he has already stated he could buy a book but doesn't want to go down that route, you have affectively offered an 'online' book.
Dreamweaver is the industry standard, in my opinion and my opinion alone your advice is poor on this issue.
I really don't want to wind you up, but really mate, your advice is rubbish and the way you come across gets peoples backs up. You're like a spoilt petulant child.
I'm trying to help you here in the same way I am trying to help you by telling you you are NOT Surrey's leading Green Eco cleaner and shouldn't advertise as such.
I think your forte might be a job with my local council, you are very good at digging holes.
I don't want to be seen to be picking on you, but what you write begs a reply.
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ok happy monday fine.
css validator? erm ok none of those invalid points are worth worrying over. if you had a decent experience with this (which others do on this forum so it's only a matter of time until one come on and backs me up for once) you'd know that what i've done is perfectly valid
example so that people who aren't experienced can see i'm right :)
"Property -moz-border-radius doesn't exist : 6px 6px" is most of the errors...
http://www.the-art-of-web.com/css/border-radius/
you'll see border-radius is a new thing, so new in fact it's not even classed as valid as it's ahead of it's time. it is infact perfectly valid and works great.
all other errors are because i purposely put an x before the code to make it not work. this is standard stuff and is normal practice. it's not valid, but so what? it removes pieces of code quickly but leaves them there for future access
here's another example of how much it matters that you have valid markup...
google.co.uk validation
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F
so i think i win that one as well :) :) :) :) :)
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gary imo my advice still is valid and has a point.
i saw that Derek wanted advice on the following:
1. any thoughts on this. (keyword hear is any ;) )
2. would i learn much.
3. wouldn't mind building a few websites of my own and being able to edit them would help.
4. is this a good start?
5. i want to design my own websites with an understanding of HTML.
6. i want to understand SEO.
7. it makes sense to understand all this my self so i can keep the websites fresh and up to date
based on what derek has asked for, i think i've given good advice. he doesn't want ot read books, ok i've suggested website. if he'd said i don't want to read website or books or use a html editor then maybe my advice is a "bit" pointless. i put bit in quotes as i still think it's needed as i'd say if you want to do the above, you can't just say you'll cut corners and achieve them. have respect for the business and understand it's not a case of don't read books, don't research online, buy a click and you're done software and bam you know/get what you want.
you say the way i offer advice gets people wound up. so really saying imo don't use dreamweaver but instead xyz is then fair to say users then go fishing for reasons to insult me? i mean come on what relevance has my design choice of a site which so many users comment on how much they love, got to do with this thread. why aren't you saying to happy monday how unrelated that is?
i find so often it seems to be on this carpet cleaning forum that if you don't agree with a user then they'll hunt you down and attack you as much as they can to disprove you as a person so that nothing you say is held with any authority. it's the only reason i can see why happy is hunting around on my site. if he can find a way to suggest i have done one thing wrong (which in fact is actually completely right and actually shows experience) then others will believe my opinion of dreamweaver is also wrong.
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ok happy monday fine.
css validator? erm ok none of those invalid points are worth worrying over. if you had a decent experience with this (which others do on this forum so it's only a matter of time until one come on and backs me up for once) you'd know that what i've done is perfectly valid
example so that people who aren't experienced can see i'm right :)
"Property -moz-border-radius doesn't exist : 6px 6px" is most of the errors...
http://www.the-art-of-web.com/css/border-radius/
you'll see border-radius is a new thing, so new in fact it's not even classed as valid as it's ahead of it's time. it is infact perfectly valid and works great.
all other errors are because i purposely put an x before the code to make it not work. this is standard stuff and is normal practice. it's not valid, but so what? it removes pieces of code quickly but leaves them there for future access
here's another example of how much it matters that you have valid markup...
google.co.uk validation
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F
so i think i win that one as well :) :) :) :) :)
But i'm not worrying over it Adam its not my site, you posted before that you can learn to build websites from this site and dreamweaver is like a rug doctor.
How can you now say the site is wrong in telling you the code isnt valid. Make your mind up.
I was writing html when you were still in a push chair, I would rather have valid html and css on a website, is this wrong?
Just read your last post Adam, you need help mate :-[
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ah the old "i've been doing this for years what do you know argument". great one. this is always best as one thing you hear is how quickly technology is moving. you go to uni to learn computer science and by the time you're out everything you've learnt is old technology. this is clear from how you put any weight onto how valid your html and css is (it's what everony used to do but not anymore as it's pointless) and don't seem to even understand the errors i've got as someone with experience would realise they're perfectly fine.
the simple truth is GOOGLE.CO.UK have 41 errors! google! you list this as an issue but GOOGLE have 41 errors on their home page alone! on their search results page i get 75 errors. to anyone who doesn't know this area just look at those errors and say does it really matter when the highest ranking website in the world doesn't even care?
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gary imo my advice still is valid and has a point.
i saw that Derek wanted advice on the following:
1. any thoughts on this.
2.would i learn much.
3.wouldn't mind building a few websites of my own and being able to edit them would help.
4. is this a good start?
5. i want to design my own websites with an understanding of HTML.
6. i want to understand SEO.
7. it makes sense to understand all this my self so i can keep the websites fresh and up to date
based on what derek has asked for, i think i've given good advice. he doesn't want ot read books, ok i've suggested website. if he'd said i don't want to read website or books or use a html editor then maybe my advice is a "bit" pointless.[/font] i put bit in quotes as i still think it's needed as i'd say if you want to do the above, you can't just say you'll cut corners and achieve them. have respect for the business and understand it's not a case of don't read books, don't research online, buy a click and you're done software and bam you know what you want.
Ohhhh Adam, that is EXACTLY what he does say..... go and have a read. You're doing my melon in man.
And now we finally agree that your posts are "a bit pointless", your wordds not mine, your evidence, not mine.
Now please shut up.
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Ohhhh Adam, that is EXACTLY what he does say..... go and have a read. You're doing my melon in man.
did you miss the rest of my post gary? here is it again...
I put bit in quotes as i still think it's needed as i'd say if you want to do the above, you can't just say you'll cut corners and achieve them. have respect for the business and understand it's not a case of don't read books, don't research online, buy a click and you're done software and bam you know what you want.
...
also i've checked and i can't see the bit where he says he doesn't want to use all 3. only the bit he says he doesn't want to read books
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Thanks for humouring me again tonight, you really are special.
Night night, over and out ::)
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And now we finally agree that your posts are "a bit pointless", your wordds not mine, your evidence, not mine.
Now please shut up.
yes they are my words. are you able to have an adult conversation or do you need to make pointless claims to win an arguement? you want me to shut up? erm ok wow nice guy. i hope other members do read this and realise the same. this is condescending and patronising. so i make a point, gary doesn't like it, and i'm told to shut up. of course this is a community with free speech and not some place where one member seems to think he can tell other members what to do and rule them. i honestly cannot believe you posted that and i do hope other members will stand up for what's right.
3...
2...
1...
gary will go on about being eco blah blah blah.
then 3,2,1 other members come to garys aid, i'm told to leave it so gary can do it again in another thread, then the thread unfortunately gets locked.
sorry once again derek my intentions hopefully will show through as the advice is only meant to be just that. you asked for any thoughts so i gave them. sorry other members felt the need to massively derail this thread. next time i ask those members to email me (it's on one of my many sites) so we can leave this place decent and something other new members will be able to use and benefit from.
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ah the old "i've been doing this for years what do you know argument". great one. this is always best as one thing you hear is how quickly technology is moving. you go to uni to learn computer science and by the time you're out everything you've learnt is old technology. this is clear from how you put any weight onto how valid your html and css is (it's what everony used to do but not anymore as it's pointless) and don't seem to even understand the errors i've got as someone with experience would realise they're perfectly fine.
the simple truth is GOOGLE.CO.UK have 41 errors! google! you list this as an issue but GOOGLE have 41 errors on their home page alone! on their search results page i get 75 errors. to anyone who doesn't know this area just look at those errors and say does it really matter when the highest ranking website in the world doesn't even care?
The simple truth is I think dreamweaver is very good, so do many others, adobe creative suite is without doubt the industry leader, all design studios use it, I dont pretend to know everything about websites, carpet cleaning or anything else Adam, I have done the course derek asked about, I liked the teacher, and advised him on my thoughts, if I build a website I make sure it looks right in all browsers and screen resolutions, I make sure it looks the same on mobile phone browsers, I make sure the css and html is valid this is what I was taught to do by someone that is paid to teach people like me you and any one else.
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The simple truth is I think dreamweaver is very good, so do many others, adobe creative suite is without doubt the industry leader, all design studios use it, I dont pretend to know everything about websites, carpet cleaning or anything else Adam, I have done the course derek asked about, I liked the teacher, and advised him on my thoughts, if I build a website I make sure it looks right in all browsers and screen resolutions, I make sure it looks the same on mobile phone browsers, I make sure the css and html is valid this is what I was taught to do by someone that is paid to teach people like me you and any one else.
any me saying it's no good you've taken it personally? i just cannot understand your personal attacks at me. they're bad attacks to start with which just shows a huge lack of understanding of the industry from you and even more importantly are completely unrelated. i've done nothing to you before you start digging for as much dirt as possible. it's disgusting the way members are acting on this area recently. i would expect the owners don't want it to continue to be known as a place where ego's attack anyone with a different view. it's well known as that if you speak offline to people about this board and i've never believed them but it appears that way. you'll see in the morning how many others will jump in on it.
and this picture couldn't be more true right now...
http://blogs.technet.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-PostAttachments/00-02-99-89-79/wrong.jpg
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Ive not attacked you neither has Gary, this is just a forum a place for debate, drop it eh.
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Paul (Happy Mondays), or anyone else.
RE: Mobile sites.
The only mobile sites I have done have been Wordpress with a simple mobile plug in. they work well but I want to integrate the mobile stuff into my existing sites.
On "normal, static" HTML sites do you use a separate page AND a separate stylesheet?
My understanding is that you have some "switching code" that detects which device is being used and automatically shows the right page. Is that right?
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depends what you want. some sites want a completely different website for mobile versions, but i assume what you mean is just to make it look as it should on a mobile? if so then conditional comments is the way to go for dealing with that, which is just the same as dealing with internet explorer and firefox display issues on a pc as all you're doing is finding out what browser the user is using
example of what you'd have...
<!--[if IE 6]>
Special instructions for IE 6 here
<![endif]-->
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Paul (Happy Mondays), or anyone else.
RE: Mobile sites.
The only mobile sites I have done have been Wordpress with a simple mobile plug in. they work well but I want to integrate the mobile stuff into my existing sites.
On "normal, static" HTML sites do you use a separate page AND a separate stylesheet?
My understanding is that you have some "switching code" that detects which device is being used and automatically shows the right page. Is that right?
Its all about just testing how they look, as gcs has said some browsers have bugs so some code is added to overcome it, firefox, ie7 - 8 and safari are normally ok with the same code, ie6 and below can be a pain. Some of the top high traffic sites have code added that will switch designed for mobiles so you are right, these have less heavy code so it loads faster, I always keep the file size low so have no need to do this.
GCS I am sorry about the adtrak comment last night that I thought had built one of your sites, i had added an S so looked at the code for www.greencleansolutions.co.uk (http://www.greencleansolutions.co.uk)
regards,
Paul
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gary: sorry i didn't mean i'd get into an arguement with you, but i know others have done in past with me and i'm tired after the one with the other gary for the last few days.
robert: all you need is a decent browser like firefox, notepad++ (http://notepad-plus-plus.org/) and www.tizag.com or www.w3schools.com. that's where i started and is where most professionals i know start. start with this and you wont learn any bad habits and will learn exactly what you need to know. if you want a decent site then but don't want to learn this stuff imo there is no short cut, you can't just run an easy to use program to make it just as you can't rent a rug doctor to get clean carpets. my suggestion is hire someone to do it for you. as derek is interested in getting a few sites together i'd suggest learning how to do it properly so he has the best chance of doing something decent.
mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.
Having had many argument with the above I must say he is totaly correct in what he says if the object of the excersie is to LEARN web design and programming then hand coding and learning your tags and css using notepad is the way to go
Coffee Cup Software do a Good Free Editor to use once you have learnt your tags and css in note pad
I would recommend you learn the above first and then do a course on photoshop and give dreamweaver a miss
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But our local adult education centre doesnt run a course in notepad :'( but the dreamweaver one is very good, you get to learn html and css. Adam has never used DW properly so how can he comment on what it does and how good it is ??? It is the industry leading wysiwyg software, if you disagree with this, let me know of a better one available.
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What Im Saying is learn how to do by hand first then if you want to use RAD tools use them
All wysiwyg Editors will eventually chuck out junk code and if you haven't learnt to do by hand
first you will definately struggle when a problem arises.
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don't know why i've completed ignored the bit about your son.
derek if your son has a keen interest in making websites then this is most definitely not the route he should go down and one i strongly recommend you don't go down either if you're looking to work with him on it.
your kid needs to learn to make sites properly which may take a bit of work but it's the only way to go if he wants to do it. the 2 sites i've listed couldn't be any simpler to follow and they do make it very easy to learn. he should follow them and then you can follow them with him and learn together a skill that'll actually be usable for a future job, where as if he and you learn to use dreamweaver you'll pick up bad habits, short cuts and not really learn to how properly make a website, so when you come across anything more advanced then changing background colour you could get stuck and have to learn to do it the proper way any way.
not saying you can't make sites with dreamweaver or a career, i'm sure if your son wanted he could set up his own business making sites for a couple hundred where he just uses templates and edits them but this isn't "making" a website and isn't what it sounds like he wants to do. i can't imagine any professional company that actually makes sites uses dreamweaver. have a look online for web developer jobs and you'll find often they'll say something like "html+css skills required (not dreamweaver)" i know for you this isn't a problem but something to consider for your son.
if your son wants some advice he's more then welcome to give me a call on my mobile 07923874555 or if he's a bit shy email me adam@cleansurrey.co.uk and i'll try to give advice, as well then in future if he gets stuck i'll always be available to help him out as i know how frustrating it can be when something isn't doing what it should be.
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OK boys, hope you don't think I'm talkin out of turn, but if you are all so expert at this interweb why are you cleaning carpets for a living? And if you're not what are you doing on this carpet cleaning forum?
I thought you brits where a reserved mature bunch of guys, but me and Lizzie reckon you sound like kindergarten kids!
Take it easy.
J
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God dam it Calhoon - your making a lot of rooting tooting sense there boy ;D
Mark
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i have rest of my life to do all sorts of careers but cleaning came to me in such a way that it made sense to do it part time with my partner, but i couldn't settle for a half arsed attempt at a business so i work a lot towards this business and give it what i can putting other areas to the side temporarily. once it's settled down a bit more i'll continue with my interweb career or one of the others i'm working towards atm. i do still do a lot of online work though and always have a ideas on the go. the plan though with my interweb career is to not forever make websites as this is actually very dull and repatitive, but instead run a business and have one or more good ideas that make a lot of money from doing very little.
but anyway that doesn't matter as running a successful business is far more skilled then making a website. i'm not cleaning carpets for a living, i'm running a business. it doesn't matter what business it is as they all have similar issues far more complex then simply making a website.
how's that for rooting tooting sense
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erm I think you guys have been watching too many Silvester cartoons. ::)
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Sure are there jd A bunch of redknecks if i ever saw yaay ;D
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Whatever missy. ::)
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OK boys, hope you don't think I'm talkin out of turn, but if you are all so expert at this interweb why are you cleaning carpets for a living? And if you're not what are you doing on this carpet cleaning forum?
I thought you brits where a reserved mature bunch of guys, but me and Lizzie reckon you sound like kindergarten kids!
Take it easy.
J
JD, Did you not realise that we are masters at everything. Even if we have been only doing it for less than 5 minutes. And there's always someone who knows more than someone else.. especially on this forum.
However, Good that you are learning a new skill Derek. You can never have enough education.
Dreamweaver is the standard in the industry but on its own there is not much relevance. You need to know about CSS Style sheets, Fireworks would also be a good one to learn for graphics as well as photoshop. Then there are server settings from windows to linux. Depending on what you are running on thw site to apache... Yes I wont go on I could quite easily.
Don't forget some basic HTML language. This will only give you the very basics for web design. if you wanted to branch out on it you would need to know about SQL Structured Query Language and database design. I wont go into too much detail as I would lose you all. Then there is obJect Orientated Programming known as OOP... LIST IS ENDLESS.
It is a field I have experience in and have worked for many blue chip companies and still do the odd freelance for them.
You would need more than a 10 week course and until you have at least 2- 5 years solid day in day out you will not even know what to do correctly. There is so much to learn and it cannot be obtained on short courses. And you certainly wont become an expert after completing a course even if after 12 months.
That does not mean to say you wont be able to do a website anyone can just not necessarily in dreamweaver.
Best of luck
Dave
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ive changed my mind, i'm gonna enrol on a rocket scientist course, seems a bit less complicated ;D
on a more serious note, my son has started a website for me using notebook. extremely basic html but i'm well proud of him. he likes it and will go far. i just wanted to give him a push and maybe learn a few things on the way.
not once did i think i was gonna become an expert.
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Derek, If its for your son. A 10 week course is a good taster. Plus if he studies well and does a recognised qualification in website design he wont require to know it all.
He would need to know the just certain parts of the programme industry.
You have the front end application - that's what you see on the site
Then you have the back end, that's the connectivity. All he has to do is choose where to start and what type of website applications he wants to design.
The motor trade industry websites are huge at the moment - in the brand names like Mercedese-Benz and Jaguar.
Generally when you work for a company you are put into groups (Pods). You are then given a specification to perform on a certain module of the website / programme.
So learning in notepad to html is great it is where we all started. Many moons ago.
Dave
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Some say the US is a little bit ahead of the wave on most things. If that's the case here, I wouldn't train your lad in I.T. All those jobs are now in the Filiapinnes or Bagalore at $200 a month :-\ If you offer a physical service in your own local area no forigner can take that away from you.
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All those jobs are now in the Filiapinnes or Bagalore at $200 a month
I can fully understand Derek's reasons above. JD's comments however, are very relevant.
The going rate for a Degree level programmer in the Phillipines is 5-8 US dollars per hour (maybe $10 if they can negotiate it). This is for skilled people who have English as a first language.
If you are serious about internet marketing, this may be the way to go because it frees you up to do the important stuff like traffic generation.
There are US companies that charge $75 to fully code a page (which you can duplicate yourself) from a Photoshop file or other graphic design.
It could well be cheaper / quicker to outsource it whilst you carry on carpet cleaning.
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It generates lots of usless code.