Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Nathanael Jones on December 04, 2010, 12:52:51 pm
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With so many on about going hot, and no sign of Peter Fogwill's promised offering, I've been looking into alternative gas heaters with a CE mark.
From what I've found out, it seems quite possible to get one designed to spec, eg: one that will run unmodified at a low flow rate, that is CE marked, that handles the pressure our pumps put out etc etc custom built.
The problem is that the minimum order is 100 units.
I'd want to keep 10 on the shelf for spare parts, as there's no point supplying a unit that you can't get spares for quickly,.. but I'm wondering if there would be enough interest to unload the majority of the remaining 90 units this winter. Take into consideration that it would be 2 weeks before I even have a sample unit, so best case scenario puts UK availability in January.
Also, with paying import duty & vat, the cost of these units would be considerably more than an L5,.. no prices are certain yet, but I'm guessing approx €240 each.
So what do you reckon guys,.. is it a winner now, or should I wait till next October?
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It's a winner - but I would want it tried and tested first and so I think for next year is better. If you can get your supplier to make a prototype or two, then on the understanding it works I would happily pay 240 euro's and add a bit for all your hard work!
I would buy one as soon as I believed it to be "ready". That is you have done an "Alex" and got it to at least "beta" level like the early slx's.
What about insurance issues as in having it working in a van.
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why gas wouldn't it be better to to use a diesel water heater ???
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why gas wouldn't it be better to to use a diesel water heater ???
Simply down to price,... if you want diesel there are suppliers already who do units at a better price than I could get the parts for.
@Gold,.... the insurance issue should be looked into by everyone individually. Most policies specifically exclude carrying highly flammable material in your van in the small print. This even includes a gallon of petrol for your pressure washer, so a gas bottle is defo out.
I have insurance with Quinn which doesn't have this exclusion & I have informed them in writing of exactly what I have in my van.
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I'm in.
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I've never used a hot water system, so have a few questions.
How effective at stopping written off days do you think it will be?
Do you expect it would outperform the L5 shower unit?
How much is 240 in £ sterling?
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Hello Nat,
It would be interesting to see what it looks like and to see it working.
Are you having it designed with frost protection in mind so it protects from freezing temperatures overnight?
Regards.
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I think as far as design goes, what is really needed is a system that warms up the water to the temperature the operator wants it to reach. It would be better to have frost protection with an option of a warm air heater kicking in should the temp drop down to x
Best bet to be able to feed two pumps.
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I think as far as design goes, what is really needed is a system that warms up the water to the temperature the operator wants it to reach. It would be better to have frost protection with an option of a warm air heater kicking in should the temp drop down to x
Best bet to be able to feed two pumps.
Good point, I run 1 pump 2 pole setups, would it be like the L10 shower unit and be capable of feeding 2 poles?
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With so many on about going hot, and no sign of Peter Fogwill's promised offering
Why what has Peter Fogwill promised to offer?
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nat sure ste m would av one m8
he was all for peters but now as the L5 working
properly i still think e would have one ;D
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I've never used a hot water system, so have a few questions.
How effective at stopping written off days do you think it will be? Its not the godsend that some ppl expect. If the roads are bad you can't drive anyway, and even hot water can freeze on the glass in extreme conditions especially when the building is unheated
Do you expect it would outperform the L5 shower unit? The L5 performance is good,.. the only issues I have with it are lack of CE mark & the fact that it requires 2 litres per minute or more to work reliably. The unit I'm looking at is slightly more powerful, but in the real world you'd hardly notice the difference
How much is 240 in £ sterling? £204 with today's exchange rate
Good point, I run 1 pump 2 pole setups, would it be like the L10 shower unit and be capable of feeding 2 poles?
An "on demand" heater isn't suitable for this because the flow rate through the heater is always changing when 1 pole stops etc. When the flow rate is slow, the water can get too hot,. and when 2 poles are running it could be quite cool. For a system with 2 poles I'd recommend an indirect system with a calorifer tank or heat exchanger of some kind to give you a consistent & controllable heat,.. but I'd never recommend using a gas heater on its own.
Frost protection is a fairly easy ask for these systems if they're fitted in the van with a vent/chimney. A simple thermostatic switch that switches on your pump is all you need,.. leave the heater & gas switched on and the end of your hose reel back into your tank. When the temp drops, the pump starts & the heater fires up,... Its a costly way to keep your van frost free though, a bottle of gas won't last long.
I'd also have reservations about recommending people leave a gas heater switched on overnight unattended in a van unless I knew it was installed 100% right, which with DIY systems is hard to determine without inspecting every single setup.
I am looking into a frost protection setup,.. it would be an optional extra but it'll be 100% wateproof, run of your WFP battery, and would include a reset timer of approx 15 minutes so if your heater for any reason fails to ignite, the frost protection will re-try 15 mins later.
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With so many on about going hot, and no sign of Peter Fogwill's promised offering
Why what has Peter Fogwill promised to offer?
Peter promised a heater similar to what I'm talking about,.. CE marked & working for WFP without modification.
He's not answered any recent posts on his forum asking about it though.
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I would be up for a couple of those at around that price nat, especially if it is custom designed for us.
Not cutting out
Easy to fit and mount,
has a good temp range cold- almost boiling
can handle high and low flow.
Maybe look into an easy to fit flu, so van doors can be closed.
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also ronnie paton would be interested ;D
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I think to be honest I'm a bit late to have anything this winter that I'm 100% happy with & completely tested,.. I reckon a minimum of 6 months in the field testing should be done.
I think what I'm going to do is try & get 5 or 10 sample units for testing (all will be made available to testers at cost price) and see what kind of feedback comes in. Next winter when I'm 100% sure I'll have a stock of heaters, most commonly required spare parts, time to put together proper instructions/youtube videos etc, and the knowledge and experience to answer ALL questions that pop up.
Once I've finalised details with a supplier, I'll be looking for volunteers to try them out. :)
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I would be a tester!!
its doing my head in not having hot water!
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I would be a tester!!
its doing my head in not having hot water!
Once I have the final details,.. some photo's & pricing I'll drop you an e-mail Ronnie. :)
I'm e-mailing ppl in different time zones though, so its sometimes the next day before I get a response & its making the process frustratingly slow.
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nat im guild n north wales lol ;D ;D
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Sounds great i am very interested
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I've replied to you on the other side Nat. I'd like you to read it if poss. ;) (matt's)
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I'd be interrested in testing one.
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Hi Nathan,
I'd probably take one.
Couple of points PF would be mad if he followed through.These heaters must be sold as what they are, not as possible WFP diy projects.
Your price point competition is not the L5, they are a toy.Your competition is rinnai and marco CE marked heaters, which are more expensive than the price you mention.
I'd like to know what concept use for the £2,800 package.I think it must be the infinity with a powered flue.I'd also like to know what their gas set up is.I understood that they did a sort of lpg conversion and put the tank where the spare wheel goes, but if this was true they'd use it as a USP- and they don't.
A pump board (pump and varistream) is about £200, i've got four but only use two, and it's probably the same for others who don't like down time, so i don't see a couple of heaters as a problem if they are the tool for the job.
So thumbs up from me.Excellent idea.
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if it can be done for that money i will have two.
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This is probably a seperate thread i'm talking about but i wouldn't mind pushing this forward a little bit and making the actual systems better.Perhaps a few of us could all chuck our two penn'th and come up with something better.I'm thinking partciularly of a two man system.As you know i have a two man system, and Brad (see system thread) has a two man hot system.He has two heaters i have one.
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Sold!!!!!
To the arrogant 1. Thank you please.
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This is probably a seperate thread i'm talking about but i wouldn't mind pushing this forward a little bit and making the actual systems better.Perhaps a few of us could all chuck our two penn'th and come up with something better.I'm thinking partciularly of a two man system.As you know i have a two man system, and Brad (see system thread) has a two man hot system.He has two heaters i have one.
For a 2 man system with a single heater, you need some extra hardware to maintain a constant temp of water for both users. Its actually cheaper to have 2 heaters,....
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One word of warning.
I remember talking Alex gardiner into sourcing and supplying hot hose.We even coined the name thermobore because no such thing existed at the time.
He got the stuff, and none of us bought it.
Ref two man; i won't take this thread of on a tangent but i don't have any problems, it's just that i think it can be done better.
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One word of warning.
I remember talking Alex gardiner into sourcing and supplying hot hose.We even coined the name thermobore because no such thing existed at the time.
He got the stuff, and none of us bought it.
That doesn't exactly inspire confidence.