Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: oliver collins on November 21, 2010, 11:10:19 am
-
Hi Guys
I am thinking of joining the NCCa in the new year and i would like your opions of the benifits of joining ie training and logo use in marketing, i was hoping it will make me stand out from the splash and dash guys even more than i do now.
However i have been carpet cleaning for 5 years i would say a have a good grasp of PH levels and spot and stain treatment and the right chems for the right carpets,but the training is £275.00 and if i fail the exam i think it would have been a waste of time and money no prizes for runners up
Your opions please Regards Oliver Collins Rise & Shine & Cleaning :P :P :P :P
-
you won't fail. trust me. get it done, i might join ya.
-
Hi
The course will prepare you to pass the exam and as you've been in the business for a good while you'll be in a good position to sail through the course.
Grant
-
The very fact Paul and Pawel are the instructors is every reason to attend.
The course I went on had 24 cleaners, half were newbies and the rest were experienced ranging up to 25 years of it.
-
oliver
dont do it
join
http://www.bics.org.uk/
about £50 a year you get letters after your name :) plus ask about city & guilds in cleaning science it will stand you much more if you ever give up carpet cleaning. the exam is study at home with a muiltable choice exam over two years. its much more comprehensive and covers many areas that should be included in the NCCA but are not.
Respect
Ian Harper
-
Ian.
I've just had a look at the BICS site and it made interesting reading.
Couldn't find any mention of prices for the courses though. Do you have a rough idea of prices for the foundation course?
-
It is a good idea to have a institution to set standards and for all us to follow.The only problem is the average household is not aware of any of these exist ???
When and whoever gets to be a houshold name i will be the 1st to sign up, but they seem to lack the marketing budget. Take Rogue traders the other week, it proves that price is the number one factor, and that would have been an ideal opourtunity for one of the institutes to show themselves, rather than the lawyer, who had no idea.
I have found that by giving a good and reasonilby priced service is far more important than if you are a member of something no one has heard off
Just my view, but this is what a forum is about ;D
-
It is a good idea to have a institution to set standards and for all us to follow.The only problem is the average household is not aware of any of these exist ???
When and whoever gets to be a houshold name i will be the 1st to sign up, but they seem to lack the marketing budget. Take Rogue traders the other week, it proves that price is the number one factor, and that would have been an ideal opourtunity for one of the institutes to show themselves, rather than the lawyer, who had no idea.
I have found that by giving a good and reasonilby priced service is far more important than if you are a member of something no one has heard off
Just my view, but this is what a forum is about ;D
unfortunately, doing it in that order makes it all the more difficult to achieve. the idea is to get a mass on board to make it happen. TACCA anyone? ;D
-
Agree with you d, but how long has the NCCA been going ??? Long enough to become a household name if the marketing was there ???
-
Well I did the course and was a member of NCCA until about 6 years ago. Actually learnt very little I hadnt already learnt by myself. Whether its changed now I dont know but I wasnt actually shown how to clean anything. Was just taught the risks of cleaning. Felt less confident after I'd done the course lol. As for the course. Not worth the paper its written on. Failed the course on the day but just sent in the correct answers by post which I thought was ridiculous. Had the NCCA logo everywhere but I'm sure it didnt make any difference to bringing work in. Look carpet cleaning as has been discussed many times is NOT A SCIENCE its just carpet cleaning. To take an analogy, some ppl on here think people want Picaso to paint their living room. All I'd want is my living painted by a decent painter lol
Chris
-
Hi guys
Thanks for the posts so far
Heres a question in my advertising two other carpet cleaners advertise in the same booklets as me i would be the only one to be a member of the NCCA that would surely tip potential customers in my favor.
Any thoughts
Oliver Collins Rise &shine Cleaning ;D ;D ;D
-
Over the next week or so ask you customers if they have heard of the NCCA?? Be intersted to hear the results
-
paul
firstly i'm not disagreeing with you as ive thought the same for a while now but as i like to look at things from a different angle heres a thought.
when you see a solicitor with loads of letters after there name, do you actually know what they mean. but at the same time, i'd guess the more letters the better the solicitor. ???
maybe the public will see the NCCA next to olivers ad and go, "oh he belongs to an organisation, he's obviously reputable"
just thought i'd throw that out there for discussion.
-
Personally, I don't think it will do anyone any harm being a member of the NCCA, but I can't see it doing anyone all that much good either.
As has already been said, barely anyone has even heard of the NCCA. In fact, I've mentioned them to a couple of customers and they found it quite amusing that such an organisation even exists.
Given the pretty steep membership and training fees. I don't personally think it is worth it.
-
Good point d, usually when talking about solicitors the more digits after there name the more they charge....
Everybody knows NHBC, so why can't the cleaning industry get a federation that would become a household name??
-
Good point d, usually when talking about solicitors the more digits after there name the more they charge....
Everybody knows NHBC, so why can't the cleaning industry get a federation that would become a household name??
:-[
nearly everybody :-[ ;D
just a thought paul really, looking at it from a diff perpective. i think the NCCA with someone new behind the wheel, might just be able to turn it into an amazing organisation, treasured by all who strive for perfection and see this job choice as a profession rather than a way to make a few quid.
-
Totally agree d....perhaps a change at the helm would be good and a large marketing campaign, would see me sign up. It would be good to get the RD cleaners out of the way ;D
-
As I see it Paul, you got it wrong way round again
"a large marketing campaign, would see me sign up".
it takes people to have faith and sign up so that generates an income to be able to spend on a large advertising campaign.
Re Rogue Traders., according to the latest NCCA News magazine they were consulted with the lead up to the programme - but do you think they could force there way in front of the cameras?
Maybe it was a case (and this is only my comment) that they could have had camera space but it would have cost them - and they didnt have enough cleaners paying the subscription to be able to afford that advertising campaign.
Catch 22
-
Guys
BICSc has been going as long as NCCA but have achieved so much more. as a member i get annual report on their finances and they are impressive.
If you take just one area commercial cleaning ask any person who responsibly it is for cleaning about BICSc and they will know about them. the reason is the on the job training they do. this lifts standards.
If you do lots of commercials then it would have a benefit for you.
Plus as i said you would not believe what's not covered by NCCA until you see what is by BICSc it is worth the time and effort.
Just give them a call and ask about the city and guilds or NVQ
Respects
Ian Harper
-
As I see it Paul, you got it wrong way round again
"a large marketing campaign, would see me sign up".
it takes people to have faith and sign up so that generates an income to be able to spend on a large advertising campaign.
Re Rogue Traders., according to the latest NCCA News magazine they were consulted with the lead up to the programme - but do you think they could force there way in front of the cameras?
Maybe it was a case (and this is only my comment) that they could have had camera space but it would have cost them - and they didnt have enough cleaners paying the subscription to be able to afford that advertising campaign.
Catch 22
I dont get what you mean,
Are you saying that the NCCA would have had to have paid to have gone on the Watchdog programme.? If so thats nonsense.
I am afraid it says more about the lack of clout the NCCA have if they were not deemed well known enough to actually take part in either the Bait & Switch or the DFS warranty scam, as the supposed body that represents Carpet Cleaners you would have thought that they would have been afforded the opportunity to take part and explain about themselves and get across that consumers should only choose NCCA members, this is of course is the very reason why so many see no point in joining up.
-
Have to say that I agree.
The NCCA don't seem to have much clout at all and considering the membership fees they expect people to pay, I don't think it's worth joining.
The BICS on the other hand is a different kettle of fish.
-
I did say it was only my comment, I dont know what actually happened any more then any of oyu.
Obviously a solicitor was chosen.
What it boils down to is that carpet cleaners are an independent lot, there self employed, and like doing things there way - and thats why I like my job.
Joining any organisation is not on the agenda generally, no matter what any one of you says.
During this year you all had a chance of joining CLEAN - what happened? You didnt want it. Fair do's
-
Its a shame NCCA missed a very good opourtunity to put themselves in front of the camera. That alone would have made me think of joining.
It would be intersting to get feedback from them ??
-
May be they asked and got turned down.
Would you still join?
-
I did say it was only my comment, I dont know what actually happened any more then any of oyu.
Obviously a solicitor was chosen.
What it boils down to is that carpet cleaners are an independent lot, there self employed, and like doing things there way - and thats why I like my job.
Joining any organisation is not on the agenda generally, no matter what any one of you says.
During this year you all had a chance of joining CLEAN - what happened? You didnt want it. Fair do's
Spot on Joe. The autonomy that this career provides is very attractive to many, the flip side of course is the potential for isolation unless you make an effort.
Is CLEAN really dead, I think there is more to come from what I have heard (third hand).
BICS as Ian says is a recognised body by many of the people we deal with (commercial), you get broad skill training in cleaning but it's not specialised like NCCA.
-
Then ncca has been going for so many years and still the public dont know or have ever heard of them ::)
-
i don't think its about the public knowing about the NCCA, my problem is they seem to be stagnating. not even attempting to try new ideas. maybe approaching BICS to see if they can be of service to each other or contacting a massive database of carpet cleaners to encourage them to join so they can push for recognition. a reduced introductory price to raise revenue for a big add campaign. anything really but they just seem to sit on there deminishing revenue with a defeatist attitude. don't think ive ever had an email off the NCCA. have they got a facebook page? are they on twitter? it wouldn't be hard to turn the NCCA around. but i can't see it happening.
-
The public are not interested in trade bodies relating to CC. You can promote it all you want but it's not going to work.
Now I know that sounds very pessimistic but what I'm on about is getting the desired result. Which is? MORE BUSINESS. Forget someone else creating some sort of magical public awareness around quality carpet cleaning, indoor air quality and all that poo.
Go out and do it yourself you lazy bvggers, and don't expect finding someone who will take your money and send you a stream of customers eager to part with their cash, IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. But there will be a few pockets lined along the way. ;)
-
Spot on "d"
-
Hi Guys
BICS is promoted by some of the largest companies in the Cleaning Industry and as a way of training staff.
Carpet cleaning by comparison is small beer and will never have a high profile.
NCCA can be useful for new starters if it gives confidence and you market effectively.
Cheers
Doug
-
I did say it was only my comment, I dont know what actually happened any more then any of oyu.
Obviously a solicitor was chosen.
What it boils down to is that carpet cleaners are an independent lot, there self employed, and like doing things there way - and thats why I like my job.
Joining any organisation is not on the agenda generally, no matter what any one of you says.
During this year you all had a chance of joining CLEAN - what happened? You didnt want it. Fair do's
Is CLEAN really dead, I think there is more to come from what I have heard (third hand)
Really Wynne ?!
You must tell me more ::)
-
Steve
Yes, heard moral had bucked up since you left. ;D
As I say third hand so who knows.
-
Well technically I haven't left yet - not that it counts for much though >:(
-
The public are not interested in trade bodies relating to CC. You can promote it all you want but it's not going to work.
Thats not true,
The public and commercial organisations are interested, its just not widely known that trade body representing CC exists.
The NCCA has done a very poor job in promoting its self, it can have all the top trainers you like showing us how to remove an ink spot but with out actually marketing its self to the public at large its effectiveness in representing those CC is limited as has been shown.
So the 'benefits' of joining are not tangible in as much as its unlikely to actually bring you in any sizable extra business. Of course they will throw up the exceptions who could show that as a result of being a member they picked up this work or that contract but these, I would wager, are very few and far between.
The Watchdog programme that would rather get the views from a commercial lawyer than a professional carpet cleaner from the NCCA was a case in point and is highly embarrassing for the Association in my opinion, who have lost what little credibility they had with CC who are not already members and I should imagine a great many of those that are.Its no good after the event announcing in your newsletter they were 'approached' by the producers for a comment.The very fact that they ignored them after approaching them sort of proves the point.
There is no doubt in my opinion that the NCCA could be a major benefit to both cleaners and consumers, everything is in place its just not selling itself and seems to be a cosy little backwater organisation, complacently comfortable with its current position completely aloof from both CC and the public at large.
Or am I being to harsh ?
-
Its no good after the event announcing in your newsletter they were 'approached' by the producers for a comment.The very fact that they ignored them after approaching them sort of proves the point.
Hilton, that is NOT what I said.... I said they were CONSULTED which in my opinion is more then "approached".
I will quote from the NCCA news magazine.
"Several months ago we were contacted by researchers fro BBC Watchdog, who were investigating a cleaning network called Enterprise Cleaning Services UK Ltd.
We readily cooperated and provided the material they required, which included technical information and an outline of how a carpet cleaning company should operate. We also supplied them with a PAS86".
At least the BBC Watchdog team knew about the NCCA for them to consult with them in the first place.
A later comment in the same article NCCA news magazine states "the programme focused heavily on legal aspects of the case".
Obviously that is why a solicitor was on the programme.
It is clear that the BBC Watchdog team wanted to focus on the legalities of this situation and not on how carpets should be cleaned.
I think it was good that a large organisation like the BBC approached the NCCA for their input to the case they were making.
Obviously, Hilton, you have strong views on the way an organisation such as NCCA should be run, why dont you join and put yourself forward as member of the decision making team, bearing in mind it is voluntary and you only get paid expenses.
Its ok grumbling about something, what the NCCA wants is someone that will actually do something - are you up to scratch???
-
Mr hatton, You took the words out of my mouth! I've just joined as well!
Hows the motorised Zimmer going ;D ;)
Speak soon
Billy
-
Well Joe if your going to be pedantic I will accept that they were 'consulted'.
Just proves my point I am afraid, you say several months ago they were consulted and then promptly ignored, where in the programme was there any reference to having taken advise from the professional body the NCCA.
You seem happy that 'at least' the BBC knew about them, well they certainly kept it a secret.
Surely Joe you must agree that that far from having a legal bod on, we would all have been much better served and certainly the NCCA to have a qualified carpet cleaner on the programme tearing there ability and business practice to pieces as they do with just about every other scam they unearth, a lawyer could then have been asked there view.
As for myself I have been a member in the past, waste of time and money no benefit at all .
But that is not say thay it could be a major benefit, as I have already said, all is in place but I just see it as a cozy coffee club, you imply that as its voluntary that I and others would not be interested in the decision making which is a bit presumptous of you ,I assume they get paid for running the courses don't they?
Am I up to scratch, yes I could get involved and change a few things but I really do not think they would be interested, by my own admision I am too forthright in my opinions, it would not be appreciated.
But getting back to my original point, you can not be ( I assume your a member) best pleased with the way they failed to get a voice on the programme.
-
Hilton
I have to agree with everything you have said - spot on mate.
Mark
-
SO what do you expect them to do Hilton to get on the programme???
Barge in and say excuse me but we are having this spot.
It was not their programme - its the BBC, why not barrage the BBC asking them why didnt they have the voice of the NCCA instead of some legal guy.
and whilst I said its voluntary to sit on the committee, they do get expenses (as I said) - but they did publish a list of expenses and it wouldnt necessarily cover the loss of a days earnings - yes most are like you and I, having a business to run.
Perhaps it would take a few like you and Derek, and one or two others to set alight the NCCA and make steps forward.
I will vote for you.
Are you up for it????
Or are you really one of those that stands on the sidelines and shouts out loud.???
-
The public are not interested in trade bodies relating to CC. You can promote it all you want but it's not going to work.
Thats not true,
Can I ask what evidence you are basing this on, or is it an assumption?
-
vote me vote me, i'll do it. heres my manifesto......
reign in all the spends to take stock. every penny to be accounted for and anything not needed to be ditched.
then work out costings for the following....
improvements on the website. including putting referals for members first. if you can get your members 2 jobs a year it'll pay for there membership.
increase the range of courses on offer, NCCA only seem to train the newbies. with advanced stain removal being the only advancement.
sue the rug doctor website for false advertising, as jim royal would say "better than a professional my ar$e"
introduce twitter, facebook and other social media pages which can not only be viewed by members, but members customers and none members. social media is not there yet but starting now before its too late is what you call, forwrd thinking, it will happen.
ive got other ideas but thats enough for now and lets face it, wouldn't cost an awful lot would it.
all the best
sir derek sugar. ;D
-
Hi Guys
It was undoubtedly an opportunity missed but we do not know how hard the NCCA tried to be represented and whether as someone has already said, the BBC were determined to follow the 'legal' avenue.
I wonder if they could have had a technical expert from the industry as well as a legal perspective.
The big problem with representation within the CC industry is time, if you are running your own business it is very difficult to dedicate your time to helping others businesses.
Cheers
Doug
-
The people you see on the tele. The rolled out 'experts' are simply blatant self promoters. You see the same people rolled out all the time. They are on a list. The Producer tells a researcher to get an 'expert' and the researcher sees who is on the list and starts ringing.
So, the chances of an NCCA spokesman getting on there is next to nil as they are not PR savvy and the 'experts' have it sewn up.
The best ones are the 'breaking news' ones as these are the most desperate. Quite often they will talk for a few minutes and if you listen they havn't told you anything you didn't already know. You may remeber the black guy who went on accidently as an 'expert' when in fact he was there for a job interview. They actually talked to him for a good few minutes and it wasn't until after they realised he was some one else.
-
I saw that one wynne on bbc ;D
-
How many times per year does the 'Let's bash the NCCA' topic come up?
And before anyone thinks here comes a supporter I'm not.
The whole CLEAN experience was proof (as I predicted) that this is an unregulated industry where probably 95% of carpet cleaners are one man bands and as such don't give a jot about others across the country.
Strangely enough though when a national incident occurs (insert rogue name) everyone suddenly expects the NCCA to spring to the defence of every carpet cleaner, even if less than 1% pay into it.
Granted the NCCA don't help themselves by setting an exam paper that is nigh on impossible to fail (well at least on the 2nd attempt), and possibly even worse is that you can't sit the exam unless you've done the course first.
But overall we've got what we wanted which is basically nothing.
Would I put myself up for some position within these 'trade organisations' would I Fk. Been there tried that with an alternative to the only trade organisation for window cleaners. Everyone was mouthing off the FWC and said they wanted an alternative. So several of us did just that, but would the mouthy gits sign up when it came to it? NO
Same with the NCCA. Don't knock it unless you're willing to do something to change it.
-
I agree with a lot of what you said there Neil.
-
Neil said "How many times per year does the 'Let's bash the NCCA' topic come up?"
I hav'nt enough fingers. ;D
Your very right there neil, with your comments
-
Neil said "How many times per year does the 'Let's bash the NCCA' topic come up?"
I hav'nt enough fingers. ;D
You're not from round here then. ;D
-
NCCA WHO ARE THEY ;D ;D ;D ;D LOL
Tony
-
Well they are survivors I'll give them that. ;D
-
How many times per year does the 'Let's bash the NCCA' topic come up?
Strangely enough though when a national incident occurs (insert rogue name) everyone suddenly expects the NCCA to spring to the
Haven't read the posts properly have you Neil,
The point I have made, had you have read it ,is that if the NCCA had got on the programme as they should have, then they could, as other organisations do, emphasised the point that any one considering using a carpet cleaner should only do so if they are members of the NCCA , as they have an approved code of conduct.
As a non member this would not have included us, is this a bash at them for not doing so ? you bet, if I was a member I would feel let down ? yes massively, as you can tell and I'm not a member. The apathy shown by those that are as with the organisation its self highlights all whats wrong with it and why it struggles for members.
The fact is Neil, the NCCA put themselves out there as the regulatory body that represents carpet cleaners and encourages all of us to join, as a consequence they have to expect criticism from time to time when their actions , or lack of it in this case, fall below what their members and prospective members would expect. If I was a member I would have been on to them immediately expecting an explanation as to why they had no representation on the programme or even a statement or any mention that a regulatory body even exists. There is no excuse because as Joe has already pointed out they had been contacted months before hand, so at least the BBC knew of their existence even if 98% of the population dont.
What did the NCCA do according to Joe? Send them a copy of the Code of Conduct, ::) which once again had no mention. How embarrassing, I bet the producers thought, well they can't be that bothered about Bait & Switch,so we won't bother them again.
This is such an important issue any many of you would be considering joining the NCCA and parting with money for the privilege, I have made it clear that I believe there is a need for a regulatory body but it has to has teeth, do the NCCA even have a PR representative ? if so what do they do.
Would you as a member and a prospective member be prepared to pay more as a fee if they were to appoint paid staff to work full time on your interests ? With the best will in the world in its current form the NCCA will never attract the membership it should or have the national presence it craves. as such these posts by people like me will crop up from time to time and rightly so, I am just surprised (or maybe not) that actual members were not more vocal in the disapproval at the NCCA given that Joe has revealed that they were fully aware that the programme and its contents were due to be broadcast.
-
Hi Guys
We seem to be going off topic
Are there any members on here who are NCCA members do they
find ot useful in marketing themsleves
And are there any of the NCCA HOB NOBS on the site there must be
Regards Oliver Collins
-
even though the ncca would have you think it is a not for profit organisation that is there to represent its members it is in fact a ltd co and as far as i can see us members seem to have no legal rights of the sort you would expect to have in a genuine members only organisation, further more i suspect (but do not know this to be a fact) that the only people who get anything of real worth from the organisation are those who are employed by it either as staff or consultants/trainers.
i wonder how many of the people who attend training courses are actual members at the time they do their particular course, i suspect it would be the majority of them so how does this benefit existing members ?. no i am afraid from what i have seen so far it is a " not for the profit of the members " organisation whilst some others seem to do ok from it
i am a member and see no benefits so far though i will continue my subscription for one more year before making my mind up.