Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on November 17, 2010, 01:59:37 pm
-
ive only ever used pencil jets since i started WFP 6 months ago.im thinking of giving fan jets a try.how have you guys got on with them and do you leave the brush on the glass when rinsing?
many thanks
dazmond
-
Hi Dazmond, my take on it is they are good for high level cleaning where you can't easily take the brush off the glass to rinse. Say a fourth of fifth floor window, you clean almost as normal, a bit slower maybe but the rinsing is done as you clean not after.
-
They're far superior for rinsing on hydrophobic glass compared to a pencil jet where the water simply dribbles down the glass in rivulets.
-
i have had them for last few months now, I love them, I rinse on glass and its so much easier on your arms/shoulders
-
I always used pencils, then i thought i would give fans a go for a month, first of all i couldnt stand them and was about to change back over to pencils, but i stuck it out for the month and now i love em, would never go back to pencils again
-
Daz,
I changed over, what must be 8 or 9 months ago after reading a few threads in the classic pencils Vs fans debates.
well, in short my cleaning time was dramatically reduced, the finish far superior to that with pencils. i clean with a far higher flow rate, but use less water as dirt is washed away quickly and rincing takes no time at all, as the
fans spread the water right across the width of the brush the water sheets straight down the glass.
and despite what other will now say, there is no overspay or dragging of dirt and brick dust
i would never go back to pencil jets.
Darran
-
I am thinking of trying fans , I am using a superlite dual trim mono , what brush does anyone recommend , cheers Dave :)
-
I am thinking of trying fans , I am using a superlite dual trim mono , what brush does anyone recommend , cheers Dave :)
i use this too david, with fans
-
Dave - perfect for fan jets ;)
any mon filamnet is good - but the dual trims are great as all water is contained inside the brush head area ( top and sides )
just get good quality fans - metal hose tails with plastic screw inserts - blue (40 deg arc) i have found produce the best overall effect in 12 inch brushes
Darran
-
I cannot understand how some think fans will dislodge brick dust etc. Even if you rinse with fans off glass there is only a fine mist (I rinse on so no mist) There is more chance of splashing walls or brick dust IMO with pencils as there is splash back off the glass with them rinsing off glass.
-
Thanks fellas , I'll give Gardiners a ring tomorrow.
-
I am thinking of trying fans , I am using a superlite dual trim mono , what brush does anyone recommend , cheers Dave :)
i use this too david, with fans
ive just ordered the same trippy
-
Do Gardiners supply their brushes with fan jets fitted?
-
Do Gardiners supply their brushes with fan jets fitted?
NO you pay for them to fit ;)
-
Anyone got a pic of a superlight with fans as fitted by Gardiners?
I'm wondering if any more bristles would need to be removed, the superlights aren't exactly stuffed with them. Quite fancy trying one but couldn't see a price on the site.
-
I am thinking of trying fans , I am using a superlite dual trim mono , what brush does anyone recommend , cheers Dave :)
i use this too david, with fans
ive just ordered the same trippy
Bloody copy cat frank ;D, wish you would have said coz i need another brush,you could have ordered mine and we could have got it carriage free
-
Do Gardiners supply their brushes with fan jets fitted?
NO you pay for them to fit ;)
I fitted me own Frank, just gotta drill the stock, cant remember the drill size now though, it takes about 2 mins to do it. How much does Alex charge btw?
-
12mm dia.
but i use 11.5mm dia as the drills can cut oversize in the soft plastic.
Darran
-
vikan do a rectangle brush with fans top brush
-
Are fan jets any good for first cleans especially when rinsing the top of the frames? Would enough water come out?
-
yep, i reckon to now do 1st cleans 25% faster than when i used pencils as the fans penatrate over a larger
area and the water travels inside the brush right to the edges and corners.
with fans you have a higher flow rate so cr@p is washed out quicker.
Darran
-
yep, i reckon to now do 1st cleans 25% faster than when i used pencils as the fans penatrate over a larger
area and the water travels inside the brush right to the edges and corners.
with fans you have a higher flow rate so cr@p is washed out quicker.
Darran
Do they use more water then or do the need the higher flow rate to increase the pressure?
-
why dont suppliers have brushes with fan jets already fitted?surely they should rather than have to fiddle about doing them yourself!
i thought gardiners would give you the option when you buy a brush but they dont! ::) ::)
dazmond
-
Yes the flow rate is higher than pencils - because unlike pencils the higher the flow rate the better the spray ( with a pencil jet turning the flow up just sends water out further in a straight line so you get splash back when rincing )
BUT,
because the water coverage is huge compared to 2 single points the frame and glass is cleaned quicker - so, for example i use 3 ltrs to clean a window with pencils but takes 5 mins to clean as the window beads and i'm chasing dirt down the window or out of corners,
i would probably still use 3 ltrs to clean with fans but because of the coverage and it sheets the window is done in around 3 mins.
i cant give exact figures - i have just spent time experimenting for what works for me, water usage was not the main priority when i changed to fans it was could i clean windows better - Yes - could i be more effective with time - yes as the fans rinse better i spend less time at each job - water use - about the same - maybe use a little less but i can say that most days i know have double the work from when i had pencils but i'm not using double the water, but i have also now got an aqua daptor so i have no where near the amount of wasted water i used to have either.
Darran
-
5 mins to clean a window smudger?a minute or two tops and that includes a good rinse and wipe of sill with brush!!so fan jets would slow me down? ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
dazmond
-
What about the dirt that sits on top of the window ledge, My pencil jets are excellent for removing that, so no gray streaks down window after the first bit of wind! ;)
How do the fans do that?
I must add i have never used them!
-
I ordered a dual trim mono with fan jets from Gardiners this mornining, they charge a fiver to fit them ;)
-
yep, i reckon to now do 1st cleans 25% faster than when i used pencils as the fans penatrate over a larger
area and the water travels inside the brush right to the edges and corners.
with fans you have a higher flow rate so cr@p is washed out quicker.
Darran
mate i have been using the aerial brush "with pencils" all week
and it cleans about 300% faster :P
-
Daz - that explains the spotting problems you get :P ;D
Alex - 300 % faster that what ? doing them trad ? stick a couple of fan jets in and you could make it 400 % n ;)
fans work best for me - i have tried different combo's of brushes and jets and for me fan jets clean better and quicker than ANY brush fitted with pencil jets
Darran
-
Exactly
-
Used my new pro window brush today, fitted with blue 40 degree fan jets, Jeeesus they have got some pressure compared to the ones in my autobrush, I really like them at the moment, The brush itself seems pretty good, the bristles are quite stiff though, there is little chance of any crap being able to stay stuck to the glass with them!! I expect it going to be quite juddery on leaded glass though.
-
Anyone care to put some pics up of their fan jets please?
-
Found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxT68-W9XMI
Like the idea of having both in the same brush!
-
Found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxT68-W9XMI
Like the idea of having both in the same brush!
and thats the pro brush i got, thats why its go 4 pre drilled holes in it!
-
I have fan jets in the draw at home and never bothered to fit ::)
As i remember blue plastic tips, i want to have a go and fit to my sill brush that has pencil jets, so will have both.
Read to use 11.5 mm drill bit, excuse my stupidity, how do fans look once fitted, worried if they protude too far will be in contact with glass when scrubbing.
Have i got it wrong again ;D
-
my blue ones stick through about 10mm at a guess, not much chance of hitting glass, and they are only plastic anyway so wont do any damage.
-
I used to use fan jets 6 years ago but changed to pencils as I got fed up of overspray & the wind blowing the mist all over if you lifted off. They were from cleantech & produced what I would describe as "a fine mist"
These blue (lurmark) ones then, do they produce a fine mist or more of say, a thicker, more defined fan shape?
-
thanks chopsie ;)
-
I guess its down to personal preference ::)
I found that fan jets did not flush the water down the glass as good as pencil and i was getting spotting near the bottom of the window :'(
I am not saying fan jets are no good just I did not get on with them so pencil jets all the way for me
Adders
-
I used to use fan jets 6 years ago but changed to pencils as I got fed up of overspray & the wind blowing the mist all over if you lifted off. They were from cleantech & produced what I would describe as "a fine mist"
These blue (lurmark) ones then, do they produce a fine mist or more of say, a thicker, more defined fan shape?
Bump, anyone?
-
Sorry Winpro - yes the Lurmark fans are used in crop spraying( as far as i can tell ) and produce a very powerful spray rather than misting - once you get about 18" ( 1 1/2 ft ) from the window you would then be getting a mist hit the window - i will try to post a pic of my brushes tomoorow, might even try a vid ! :o
Chopsie - yes you do get a bit of 'bump' on leads ( for me on the down stroke :P )
Darran
-
Sorry Winpro - yes the Lurmark fans are used in crop spraying( as far as i can tell ) and produce a very powerful spray rather than misting - once you get about 18" ( 1 1/2 ft ) from the window you would then be getting a mist hit the window - i will try to post a pic of my brushes tomoorow, might even try a vid ! :o
Chopsie - yes you do get a bit of 'bump' on leads ( for me on the down stroke :P )
Darran
Thanks Darran.
I might give them a go, I only ever lift off about 2 to 4 inches anyway.
If you turn the flow down is the fan less misty?
-
Ive had 2 poles with fan jets and found within a couple of days they both got blocked so went back to pencil jets as they are much better in my opinion.
-
What about 1mm pencils? Anyone use them?
-
Daz - that explains the spotting problems you get :P ;D
Alex - 300 % faster that what ? doing them trad ? stick a couple of fan jets in and you could make it 400 % n ;)
fans work best for me - i have tried different combo's of brushes and jets and for me fan jets clean better and quicker than ANY brush fitted with pencil jets
Darran
smudger i dont think i will get another 100% by using fans in the aerial brush
and no other brush will come close to cleaning faster than the aerial brush, with pencils or fans
brush is more inportant then the types of jets ::)
-
Alex - got to give you 100% for trying to flog your gear ;D but without a decent pure water coverage
even top end brushes wont clean well
Winpro - yes there is less mist, but the fan becomes less distinct and narrows so loses effectiveness
with fans you would not have to lift off - so with ref to the other thread on the country houses you can bring
the brush to the top edge, wipe along without any water getting onto the frame wher you would with a pencil jet.
if you have a garden hose fitted with a multi spray patten gun you will see what i mean - put it on jet and spray it at a window - the jet hits the window in one spot, lots of water blows back but also 'mushrooms' so water is forced up and out of the brush,
set it to flat fan and hit the window - you will get a straight line as as the force is lateral and continues left and right not up and over the brush.
Bfg - personally never had any blockages with fans - hows the dirt getting into the system ???
Darran
-
smudger,
from what you and gold have said you have urged me to give the fan jets ago.
from what's been said i think it's best i get a supalite double trim brush mono filament white bristles and blue 40 degree arc fan jets.
A few things i was wondering which you maybe able to answer:
1) when cleaning upvc windows there is an expansion gap at bottom of frame that meets the sill; do you find you blow out lots of crap here with fan jets, which on upstairs may leave sills in a state?
2) On old fashioned leaded windows, do you find water gets through to inside?
3) smudger do you use a tap on belt like gold to vary flow or find not needed, i have tried taps on belt and wasn't keen.
thanks lee
-
Hi Lee - yes i personally feel that is a super combo for cleaning windows.
if you are not experienced with drilling and fitting get gardiners to fit them for you.
1. under normal use - no - if you take time, angle the head so the water fires directly into the gap then it will clear
it out ( as would pencils ) but i always wipe the brush over the sill after cleaning.
2. cant say - dont do any 'old fashioned' leads - plenty of new phoney ones - do lots of georgian sash types no problem, get the odd leak with bad frames here and there.
3. No - it's either ON or OFF - i use the aqua-daptor - like yourself didn't like a tap on the belt and others
i let drag never lasted long - i also have used a remote - pretty good but not 'instant' on/off
hope this helps
Darran
-
3. No - it's either ON or OFF - i use the aqua-daptor - like yourself didn't like a tap on the belt and others
i let drag never lasted long - i also have used a remote - pretty good but not 'instant' on/off
hope this helps
Darran
do you have a flow controller, if so what setting do you have it on, i am thinking of getting the fans, and i have an aqua dapter, i have my flow set to 27 with the pencils, would i need to up it?
-
thanks very much smudger.
I was thinking just that; get gardiners to do fan jets (even though i've got em in draw ::))
I'l be brave and go for it, treat myself to aqua daptor. ( i think this would be a very important must have with fans)
Was thinking of doing soon, would i be right in thinking there would be less water on the ground wfp with fan jets; so less probs slips and trips in winter? (freezing)
thanks again lee.
-
Yes i would say that fans inconjuction with aqua-daptor has less water on the ground ( aqua daptor with pencils would also have less water on the ground tho ) with the quickness of rinsing and turning off the water to do a final wipe over the sill you can start the lower window instantly as very little water drops from above.
i have a variflow in the van - but its the old dial type i run it 2 marks higher with fans than when i had pencils - so best advice for any digital controllers is to experiment, i have noticed that if i go past 3/4 to max on the controller the pump will cut in/out i believe this is due to the fans having a ltr/per/min flow themselves and causing some back pressure
Darran
-
where do you get the ariel brush from?
is it from gardiners of from www.wfp-brush.co.uk
-
thanks again smudger :)
-
fan jets are far more better dont waste the water and can control the coverage of thw spray on the glass
-
Alex - got to give you 100% for trying to flog your gear ;D but without a decent pure water coverage
even top end brushes wont clean well
Winpro - yes there is less mist, but the fan becomes less distinct and narrows so loses effectiveness
with fans you would not have to lift off - so with ref to the other thread on the country houses you can bring
the brush to the top edge, wipe along without any water getting onto the frame wher you would with a pencil jet.
if you have a garden hose fitted with a multi spray patten gun you will see what i mean - put it on jet and spray it at a window - the jet hits the window in one spot, lots of water blows back but also 'mushrooms' so water is forced up and out of the brush,
set it to flat fan and hit the window - you will get a straight line as as the force is lateral and continues left and right not up and over the brush.
Bfg - personally never had any blockages with fans - hows the dirt getting into the system ???
Darran
Darran im not trying to sell you anything
dont buy their brushes heres the website www.wfp-brush.co.uk
email tecbuk and get them to take you off the marketing lists
and to put you on a no sale list or blacklist whatever its called
that way you carnt buy one
as for testing brushes ive been wfp window cleaning a few years
and the only test that counts is does the brush clean the windows quicker
theres nothing more to testing than that
after several years window cleaning and trying different brushes
the vikan brush is what i alsways went back to
until i used the aerial brush now i will wont use the vikan
its finnaly been topped
if you want to waste time cleaning windows thats your choice mate
-
Alex - thanks for that, your posts came over as you were tecbuk - which is doing them a disservice, esp
when you state a newbie can clean windows better than an experienced WFP'er in under 3 months,
( my 9 year old can COULD clean a window faster than me, but the results would be cr@p ) there is a steep
learning curve to wfp and until you have experienced all weather conditions and a majority of window types
you should be concentrating on doing windows properly rather than quickly - speed is a by-product of good technique
and equipment - no 1 single item in wfp is a magic solution,
sorry i don't spend my time mucking around cleaning windows - i get paid extremely well to clean them ;)
but thanks for your views
Darran
-
Alex - thanks for that, your posts came over as you were tecbuk - which is doing them a disservice, esp
when you state a newbie can clean windows better than an experienced WFP'er in under 3 months,
( my 9 year old can COULD clean a window faster than me, but the results would be cr@p ) there is a steep
learning curve to wfp and until you have experienced all weather conditions and a majority of window types
you should be concentrating on doing windows properly rather than quickly - speed is a by-product of good technique
and equipment - no 1 single item in wfp is a magic solution,
sorry i don't spend my time mucking around cleaning windows - i get paid extremely well to clean them ;)
but thanks for your views
Darran
Wise words Smudger. ;)
-
Thankyou kind sir,
Darran
-
So does using Fan jets on windows that dont sheet make them sheet?
-
So does using Fan jets on windows that dont sheet make them sheet?
No
-
Why does it make it easier on non sheeting windows then?
-
for me it does this by being able to rinse on glass with the fans jetting water the width of the brush, so sort of dragging the water down. I did one today that a few windows were terribly hydrophobic. I left loads of brush marks behind, almost as if window was covered in a film of oil. I just hope they dry ok.
-
They make a lovely jet engine type noise as they clean the windows. I used a Peter Fogwill autobrush with fans for 6 months 2 yrs ago and because I was a bit of a cheapskate bought pencils after but just gone back to fans and this time wont change back to pencils.
Quite a few custys have heard the noise as i clean their windows and are impressed.
Hahaha
-
Alex - thanks for that, your posts came over as you were tecbuk - which is doing them a disservice, esp
when you state a newbie can clean windows better than an experienced WFP'er in under 3 months,
( my 9 year old can COULD clean a window faster than me, but the results would be cr@p ) there is a steep
learning curve to wfp and until you have experienced all weather conditions and a majority of window types
you should be concentrating on doing windows properly rather than quickly - speed is a by-product of good technique
and equipment - no 1 single item in wfp is a magic solution,
sorry i don't spend my time mucking around cleaning windows - i get paid extremely well to clean them ;)
but thanks for your views
Darran
darren you read and quoted me wrong, i said
any new people coming into window cleaning using these brushes will be cleaning faster inside of 3 months
than any experienced window cleaners
its a fair comment
aeriel brush is very different hence the comment about new people
after using the brush a couple of weeks id agree withwhats been said about it
it is the only genuine window cleaning brush you can get, thats without question
no other brush can clean windows as half as fast and its the best quality brush i have ever seen
this brush sets the benchmark in cleaning time and quality
it makes using any other brush a waste of time
i hope thats made it clearer i didnt mean you were mucking around
when i said you are wasting time cleaning windows
it means if their is another way you can clean windows quiker.......youre not wasting time
like you said speed is about technique and equipment
but your never going to have this kind of speed with the brush you use