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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: geefree on November 14, 2010, 01:41:18 pm

Title: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: geefree on November 14, 2010, 01:41:18 pm
Hi, has someone invented a hot water system , van mount , without the use of the L5 heater?

i read that its a lot cheaper and more efficient,

Has anyone any information on this?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Hot water system
Post by: darren clarke on November 14, 2010, 01:45:09 pm
ionics,  that concept 02 thing at the top?
Title: Re: Hot water system
Post by: geefree on November 14, 2010, 01:49:21 pm
No, its supposed to cost around £300-400...

i cant remember the name of the guy who has done them
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: dd on November 14, 2010, 03:40:59 pm
Peter Fogwill
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Ste M on November 14, 2010, 05:08:46 pm
yes it was peter and i put my name down for one about two months ago, since then ive heard nowt, it was supposed to be launched tomorrow yet he has gave out no details and doesnt reply to any posts about it so i take it something has gone wrong with it
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: formb on November 15, 2010, 09:19:46 am
My old man has invented a heating system for our WFP systems. It is not a "hot water system" though. It is designed only to raise the temp of a 750L tank by 10-15 degrees to prevent freezing in winter.

It is free to run and can be fitted to any system, I am considering flogging them but it really needs more testing first.
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Nathanael Jones on November 15, 2010, 10:50:36 am
My old man has invented a heating system for our WFP systems. It is not a "hot water system" though. It is designed only to raise the temp of a 750L tank by 10-15 degrees to prevent freezing in winter.

It is free to run and can be fitted to any system, I am considering flogging them but it really needs more testing first.
I'd happily volunteer for testing,..
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Perfect Windows on November 15, 2010, 10:52:01 am
Ditto.

Does it use the exhaust?

Vin
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Central Window Cleaners on November 15, 2010, 12:18:52 pm
I would be happy to be a lab rat for your tests
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Clive McDonald on November 15, 2010, 01:43:49 pm
It is an interesting problem and one ive been thinking about.It's probably not so much testing as the input of additional ideas that would be the greatest benefit.

Not getting cold in the first place would be a good starting point. A cover would save a lot of heat, but these might be £300 and require putting on and off every morning and night.

Lets define the problem for a start; this is my defintion of what we are talking about.

Preventing back of van freezing on an overnight basis when the temperature dips to minus eight or below.

Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Perfect Windows on November 15, 2010, 03:12:25 pm
Not getting cold in the first place would be a good starting point. A cover would save a lot of heat, but these might be £300 and require putting on and off every morning and night

I would have thought that good design could mean no need to remove.  If you have openings for pump controls and filling point you should be OK just to remove those when required.  If it's permanent bar those, then you might be looking at a plywood cover and roof insulation (the bagged kind) which could be very cheap.

Then you just need a pump that's on when the ignition is running pushing water through a stainless pipe wrapped round four feet of exhaust pipe.

Vin
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on November 15, 2010, 04:54:48 pm
My old man has invented a heating system for our WFP systems. It is not a "hot water system" though. It is designed only to raise the temp of a 750L tank by 10-15 degrees to prevent freezing in winter.

It is free to run and can be fitted to any system, I am considering flogging them but it really needs more testing first.

I'd happily pay for it. Please get it sorted ASAP! ;) :)

I think this is a much better solution than a "proper" hot water system. ;)
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: luther1 on November 15, 2010, 05:04:01 pm
I have a customer who heats his swimming pool by having the filament from a kettle in the pool whilst the top of it stays dry by being drilled through a piece of wood so it floats (honestly) and the idiot swims in the pool with it in there.

Could the kettle filament arangement not be made to heat a tank of water or am i missing something glaringly obvious?
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Darranvps on November 15, 2010, 05:08:18 pm
Buy yourself a fridge van and you will be sorted 8)
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: formb on November 15, 2010, 05:09:08 pm
I have a customer who heats his swimming pool by having the filament from a kettle in the pool whilst the top of it stays dry by being drilled through a piece of wood so it floats (honestly) and the idiot swims in the pool with it in there.

Could the kettle filament arangement not be made to heat a tank of water or am i missing something glaringly obvious?

A kettle element is going to cost an absolute fortune to run.
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Perfect Windows on November 15, 2010, 05:12:55 pm
I have a customer who heats his swimming pool by having the filament from a kettle in the pool whilst the top of it stays dry by being drilled through a piece of wood so it floats (honestly) and the idiot swims in the pool with it in there.

Could the kettle filament arangement not be made to heat a tank of water or am i missing something glaringly obvious?

It could, at a cost of 60p or so per hour of heating.  Plus a 3kW filament would heat 600 litres of water by about 4 C in an hour, assuming perfect insulation, so you'd need to run it for a while.

Vin
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: luther1 on November 15, 2010, 05:15:03 pm
Vin,what about a 12v arrangement from my fAg lighter?
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on November 15, 2010, 07:03:55 pm
Vin,what about a 12v arrangement from my f*g lighter?

Please try that with a 12v water heater and let us know what happens to your battery.  ;D
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on November 15, 2010, 07:17:19 pm
Use this formula to work out how much energy is needed to raise the temp of water.

You will need 4,180 Joules of energy to raise 1 kg of water by 1 degree C.

1 joule = 1 watt of power applied for 1 second.


So to raise 250L by 20 degrees would be.....?


Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on November 15, 2010, 07:18:48 pm
5.8kw for 1 hour
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: Perfect Windows on November 15, 2010, 07:53:39 pm
I have a customer who heats his swimming pool by having the filament from a kettle in the pool whilst the top of it stays dry by being drilled through a piece of wood so it floats (honestly) and the idiot swims in the pool with it in there.

Could the kettle filament arangement not be made to heat a tank of water or am i missing something glaringly obvious?

It could, at a cost of 60p or so per hour of heating.  Plus a 3kW filament would heat 600 litres of water by about 4 C in an hour, assuming perfect insulation, so you'd need to run it for a while.

Vin

I may have been overstating it; 20p per kWH is quite high.  Looks like 13-16p might be closer to the truth, so around 40-50p per hour for a 3kW kettle element.

Vin
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: AuRavelling79 on November 15, 2010, 08:37:18 pm
I have floated 300w pond heaters in my van tank (which is well insulated) to raise the temp overnight.

It works just like the swimming pool post above - an element goes through a circle of foam (like a swimming pool float) and hangs in the water.
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: luther1 on November 15, 2010, 09:33:02 pm
It doesn't have to be heated 8 hours a day does it. An initial warm up then surely another periodically??? ???
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: boshravie on November 15, 2010, 09:59:01 pm
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4500513/Trail/searchtext%3EELECTRIC+BLANKET.htm


Hi guys this might be silly idea, but have you thought of one of these to keep the your water tank warm in the freezing winter?
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: boshravie on November 15, 2010, 10:01:15 pm
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-DREAM-TIME-ELECTRIC-HEATED-BLANKET-WASHABLE-/370436218265?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Bedroom_Bedding_PP&var=&hash=item950359fecf#ht_3176wt_907


or one of these? a bit cheaper  ;)
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: geefree on November 15, 2010, 10:59:53 pm
I dont think they will warm the water  ;D

the van maybe, but so does an oil filled radiator,

looks like i will simply stick to doing that then,

Thanks for all replies  ;)
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: boshravie on November 15, 2010, 11:03:18 pm
I dont think they will warm the water  ;D

the van maybe, but so does an oil filled radiator,

looks like i will simply stick to doing that then,

Thanks for all replies  ;)

I didn’t mean for warming the water, just keeping inside van warm !
it was just a though any way.  :)
Title: Re: Alternative Hot water system
Post by: TomCrowther on November 16, 2010, 06:00:51 pm
What do window cleaners in really cold countries do? There must be a retro fit product out there that does exactly what we need. I can see a new business venture importing whatever it is from Scaninavia. have to wait til next year tho  :'(