Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on November 11, 2010, 09:56:20 am
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Im really getting into wfp now and cleaning between 20%-40% more a day than ladder work.a lot of you guys have advised me to get a tank etc etc but i was thinking it would be difficult with big chunks of very compact work with some parking issues.id just like to share the benefits of a 50L TROLLEY.
1.lower insurance due to no vehicle modifications.
2.cheaper than a van mount
3.can bring the trolley in every night(no freezing issues)
4.excellent with 30m of extension hose and can be used as a mini van mount for stand alone jobs.
5.excellent for big chunks of my compact work and the extra 25L DOES make a big difference to time spent changing barrels etc.
6.less of a trip hazard.
7.i find it impossible to use more than 300L-350L a day so can carry enough barrels in my van.
8.i have a few bigger jobs where its hard to park near the property so the 50L TROLLEY is ideal where a backpack would be too small to get any decent amount of windows cleaned before needing to fill up AGAIN!!
9.at the moment i cant see me changing to a van mount anytime soon and im very happy with my choice of equipment.
what are your thoughts on trolleys or your experience with them compared to van mounts?
best wishes to you all
dazmond
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I might be able to help here Daz.
I started with a twin barrel trolley (2 x 25L) from Peter Fogwill. I used it with 8 barrels in the far back and back seats of a 1991 Honda Accord Estate (somewhere between Escort and Mondeo size.)
Then I put a 175L tank plus 50m of microbore reel in the car plus two barrels and the trolley on the back seat. As you know with this trolley you lift out the frame and then slot one or two barrels, the battery and the pump in place.
Then I bought a backpack. And I modified the trolley (with a car jack!) to let me carry it in one of the barrel slots of the trolley!
So here we are like Fred Carno's Circus with three methods and pole all crammed into a medium/large estate! And it all worked.
I found that more and more I used the reel and hose and where I didn't I used the backpack and the trolley fell almost redundant. (And yet I had a job on a large factory where I did the fronts with the reel but the backs - about 100m away with no vehicle access I wheeled the trolley round. Also a school with a portable classroom across playing fields likewise.)
Then a French lorry driver wrote off the car (it was worth less than a grand) and I had a decision to make - repair it on the cheap or get another vehicle. I was doing well enough for Mrs. Gold to run an even older saloon car for the family and so I bit the bullet and put the insurance money down on a brand new van which I self fitted with what is basically my present system (a 400L plus varistream and 80m of microbore).
I never carried the trolley in the van (the frame and two barrels of which I gave away to someone on this forum - who never even put a thank you note through the door or a bottle of brandy or a cuban cigar or a voucher for a cruise round the med... :( ;D)
The backpack died and I never replaced it but last month paid £35 for it to be repaired (duff circuitboard bypassed) and a new switch fitted and now ...
I do take the backpack (15L) and a 25L topping up barrel for jobs at the backs of terraces or up gardens where I used to run the hose through. This increases my overall capacity to 440 litres which gives me enough for a full day where I need it. It gives me the option.
The van ... (Doblo)
Hindsight tells me I could have got a better deal on the van by getting a loan and paying in full but for me the £500 deposit and the £170 a month were affordable and I have not regretted the decision and I have just decided at the end of the lease to pay the peppercorn rental of £170 a year and "keep" the van indefinitely as I've only done 24,000 miles in 4 years.
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Same as Gold's history really...but I now run the van with the trolley and take the trolley out when needed for certain jobs....
So in winter...it's nice and easy...12v bilge pump (good for filling trolley +backpack) in van tank to empty van tank into 2000l holding/storage tank...take out reel and trolley...everything nice a goody. Always hated the thought of paying money to heat my van.
Once backpack dies I will not replace it.
So in essence the trolley is a van mount/pump box, trolley all in one...so with the addition of a bilge pump, small tank and a few and fittings...you could have it all.
Cheers
Dave.
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your mad daz. if your round is as compact as you make out surely a vanmount would be much better with a backpack for the odd hard to access houses. the pro's defo outdo the cons...
I too used a 50 litre trolley which was the biggest waste of money and time. My round is prob more compact than yours and after 2 years of lugging about barrels,,stopping and changing more barrels,,airlocks,,mate these trolleys weigh a ton when uging em about all day no way pedro..then my god i had the hastle of filling them damn barrels up each and every day i thought enough was enough so got a vanmount.
Now there is nomore lugging barrels for me and no more stopping and starting and best of all no more filling 12 barrels a day up and having to lift each 1 in and out the van throughout the day which used to realy realy get on my tits..Best thing i did was go over to van mount i just fill my water up each night straight into my tank then out to work and clean without the hassle or grief its that great feeling after a big long smelly fart ahhhhhhh bisto. i reckon this time next year you will be all vanmounted up.
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I started wfp just after you Daz with a 25L P/F trolley in my escort van but was always overloaded as their are 2 of us and ladders, ive now got a Movano with a 500L tank which i connect to my trolley and run out a 50m hose, some jobs i can take the trolley out and wheel it round the back or over the main road!
i like to have both options and know i will stop if i have to brake in a hurry!
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Hi
Iam interested in this thread as my friend and i both have decent sized truckmount tanks. We have been discussing the merits of a trolley system in certain situations. I have two back packs but find they drain to quickly.
could you answer these questions for me. how much work can you do with one fill, iam expecting somethin like 2 standard semis?
with your filling pumps how long does it take to fill?
I currently avoid terraces as getting the hose in and out of entries just holds everything up, iam thinking the trolleyman could go down the backs whilst the van man does the fronts, if the next house is walking distance the van man could drive on and start the next one not have to wait for the man at back and put all the hoses away.
This could save loads of time on a day
john
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your mad daz. if your round is as compact as you make out surely a vanmount would be much better with a backpack for the odd hard to access houses. the pro's defo outdo the cons...
I too used a 50 litre trolley which was the biggest waste of money and time. My round is prob more compact than yours and after 2 years of lugging about barrels,,stopping and changing more barrels,,airlocks,,mate these trolleys weigh a ton when uging em about all day no way pedro..then my god i had the hastle of filling them damn barrels up each and every day i thought enough was enough so got a vanmount.
Now there is nomore lugging barrels for me and no more stopping and starting and best of all no more filling 12 barrels a day up and having to lift each 1 in and out the van throughout the day which used to realy realy get on my tits..Best thing i did was go over to van mount i just fill my water up each night straight into my tank then out to work and clean without the hassle or grief its that great feeling after a big long smelly fart ahhhhhhh bisto. i reckon this time next year you will be all vanmounted up.
ill be going in for THE WORLDS STRONGEST MAN this time next year! ;D ;D ;D ;Di doubt some parts of your round are more compact than mine.i have 150 houses virtually all right next door to each other on one part of my round but parking is a nightmare!
for the extra expense and hassle of buying and fitting a tank plus 100m of hose and higher van insurance/heaters to keep everything from freezing/the hassle of removing system when buying another van etc etc.ill be staying the way i am for now.
it takes me 40-50 mins to fill all barrels in the evening(DI ONLY/BARRELS LEFT IN VAN) and a couple of mins here and there to change barrels throughout the day.Its the idea of 100 m of hose getting snagged on everything that puts me off as well as the above mentioned things.
dazmond
my earning power has already increased by quite a bit since going wfp 5 months ago
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5 months wfp! dont you think its a bit soon to be saying 50ltr trolley is the bees knees and a van mount seems no good.
if the 50 ltr trolley was sooooooo great then we would all have one!
have you even tried a backpack or van mount??
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your mad daz. if your round is as compact as you make out surely a vanmount would be much better with a backpack for the odd hard to access houses. the pro's defo outdo the cons...
I too used a 50 litre trolley which was the biggest waste of money and time. My round is prob more compact than yours and after 2 years of lugging about barrels,,stopping and changing more barrels,,airlocks,,mate these trolleys weigh a ton when uging em about all day no way pedro..then my god i had the hastle of filling them damn barrels up each and every day i thought enough was enough so got a vanmount.
Now there is nomore lugging barrels for me and no more stopping and starting and best of all no more filling 12 barrels a day up and having to lift each 1 in and out the van throughout the day which used to realy realy get on my tits..Best thing i did was go over to van mount i just fill my water up each night straight into my tank then out to work and clean without the hassle or grief its that great feeling after a big long smelly fart ahhhhhhh bisto. i reckon this time next year you will be all vanmounted up.
ill be going in for THE WORLDS STRONGEST MAN this time next year! ;D ;D ;D ;Di doubt some parts of your round are more compact than mine.i have 150 houses virtually all right next door to each other on one part of my round but parking is a nightmare!
for the extra expense and hassle of buying and fitting a tank plus 100m of hose and higher van insurance/heaters to keep everything from freezing/the hassle of removing system when buying another van etc etc.ill be staying the way i am for now.
it takes me 40-50 mins to fill all barrels in the evening(DI ONLY/BARRELS LEFT IN VAN) and a couple of mins here and there to change barrels throughout the day.Its the idea of 100 m of hose getting snagged on everything that puts me off as well as the above mentioned things.
dazmond
my earning power has already increased by quite a bit since going wfp 5 months ago
daz i grant what your saying but your earning power would be even greater with vanmount. it was for me. I never had anyprobs freezing last year apart from in that snow we had but i wouldnt work in that anyway. mind you im in london so i guess it dont get as cold as you lot up there. haha i knew id hit a nerv saying about compact round lol...honest if you have 150 all next to eachother then you should defo have a vanmount or at least a 150 litre tank in van to do a big long run of houses. im not knocking how you work mate...just saying how it was for me as i thought my trolley was best thing since sliced bread when i got it i ended up earning upto a third more a day when went over to van mount.
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clarkson(john) i can clean 4 sometimes 5 smallish 3 bedders without needing to fill up with a 50L TROLLEY.so roughly 2 mins every hour to swap 2 barrels.
it works for me!and its works VERY WELL!!
BY THE WAY MY FLOWCONTROLLER IS SET ON 60 WITH 5 MM EXTENSION HOSE.
DAZMOND
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5 months wfp! dont you think its a bit soon to be saying 50ltr trolley is the bees knees and a van mount seems no good.
if the 50 ltr trolley was sooooooo great then we would all have one!
have you even tried a backpack or van mount??
i didnt say that backpacks and van mounts are no good just that im happy with my trolley!im just interested in guys who ve had both and their experiences with them.
dazmond
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clarkson(john) i can clean 4 sometimes 5 smallish 3 bedders without needing to fill up with a 50L TROLLEY.so roughly 2 mins every hour to swap 2 barrels.
it works for me!and its works VERY WELL!!
BY THE WAY MY FLOWCONTROLLER IS SET ON 60 WITH 5 MM EXTENSION HOSE.
DAZMOND
it takes longer than 2 mins to take trolley back to van,set new barrels up then back to the houses you were working on plus its all the hastle with the lifting etc weather you are strong or not ate oit is grief. you will learn boyo..you will learn i did. i still have a bad back from lifting those devils all the time and dragging my trolley..
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In 6 months time he will say how great the van system is when he gets one and how useless trolleys are.
He's just trying to justify his purchase.
Trolleys are ok but I prefer a van system and backpack.
5 months wfp! dont you think its a bit soon to be saying 50ltr trolley is the bees knees and a van mount seems no good.
if the 50 ltr trolley was sooooooo great then we would all have one!
have you even tried a backpack or van mount??
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Trolleys IMO are only a stop gap,
Get a van mount, you will see a huge improvement,
Plus when you hurt you back and can't work for a week due to over reaching or the like with heavy barrels,
That's the wake up call
Mr B
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In 6 months time he will say how great the van system is when he gets one and how useless trolleys are.
He's just trying to justify his purchase.
Trolleys are ok but I prefer a van system and backpack.
5 months wfp! dont you think its a bit soon to be saying 50ltr trolley is the bees knees and a van mount seems no good.
if the 50 ltr trolley was sooooooo great then we would all have one!
have you even tried a backpack or van mount??
yeah and prob said a while ago trad was best no way going wfp ... problem is the only thing to compare to his ladder work and not comparing wfp systems
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thats right mate,if he had a tank full of water and a van system he would improve his cleaning times by another 25% easy.
In 6 months time he will say how great the van system is when he gets one and how useless trolleys are.
He's just trying to justify his purchase.
Trolleys are ok but I prefer a van system and backpack.
5 months wfp! dont you think its a bit soon to be saying 50ltr trolley is the bees knees and a van mount seems no good.
if the 50 ltr trolley was sooooooo great then we would all have one!
have you even tried a backpack or van mount??
yeah and prob said a while ago trad was best no way going wfp ... problem is the only thing to compare to his ladder work and not comparing wfp systems
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end of the day i suppose it doesnt matter, windows are cleaned well, customer happy, wc gets paid...
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Hi Daz,
I have recently implemented wfp into my round and initially went for a 25L PF trolley.
I would say from the sound of your work that you are suited to a trolley as, like you say, you can run it from the van as a mini van mount as you have 30m of extension hose. This gives you the best of both worlds.
I have since bought a bigger van and fitted a van tank. In terms of not having to refill barrels, lugging trolley on/off the van it's great as you simply plug the pole in and off you go....
However having the van mount aswell as the trolley is really useful but probably not necessary... I managed to get all my van rig for a good price otherwise I would be running the same way as you, with extension hose running from the trolley equating to a mini van mount.
The other time saver ofcourse is being able to fill the van tank without having to swap the hose over on each barrel when filling up.
Mike
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How much was your trolly?
I reckon a van mount would be cheaper, you only need a tank, reel & pump box as you needed the DI's anyway.
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trolley was £550.i only need a tank/frame/sub pump if a want to go van mount with the trolley used for the odd job here and there.im certainly not putting a tank in my kangoo.if i do get a tank itll be when i get a bigger van(say a doblo/dispatch/scudo).
dazmond
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trolley was £550.i only need a tank/frame/sub pump if a want to go van mount with the trolley used for the odd job here and there.im certainly not putting a tank in my kangoo.if i do get a tank itll be when i get a bigger van(say a doblo/dispatch/scudo).
dazmond
I ran a Kangoo D65 with 400ltr flat tank in + all trad gear for 6 years! No problem. ;)
So, I wouldn't say the trolly was a cheaper option really for you?
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Its what ever practical at the time, obviously Dazmond is please with his 50 ltr trolley I looked at them but opted for a 25ltr self build trolley which suits my needs at the moment but I will be looking to upgrade to a van mount as I can see both would be handy to have.Would want to push 50 kg of water about 25ltrs is bad enough. :)
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I have never used anything other than my DIY 50 liter trolley and a backpack.
The trolley has a mounted hose reel with 30 meters microbore.
It takes a lot less time changing containers than moving the van/ trailer.
I could easily run it as a van mount for the cost of another hose reel, but don't want the hassle of moving the van every couple of houses, or when someone wants to get in or out of their drive.
I too have very compact work, sometimes only have to move the car once in the day.
I ditched the van for a trailer, I can carry all my water, and have a ramp to wheel the trolley on and off.
Having my Mrs at home means that she can fill all the containers for the next days work, I just chuck the empty ones off, and reload full ones for the next day.
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and when you are filling all them barrels up iam sat with me feet up.cause van filling up in 10mins.
so wheres the time saving
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Daz i bet your built like either he man or quasimodo...no way i will ever go back to trolley and barrells but I do remember thinking it was great at the time. as long as your happy mate : ;)
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and when you are filling all them barrels up iam sat with me feet up.cause van filling up in 10mins.
so wheres the time saved.
I did say , my Mrs fills the containers when I am out working, obviously I have enough containers to get me through two days work.
My trailer is now loaded with full containers, the ones I used today are waiting to be filled.
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dan im a big lad mate!6ft 2in and 17 stone!ive spent 17 years as a trad window cleaner.before that landscaper gardener.worked on farms since 14 and played drums on and off for 25 years! ;D ;D ;D
i really dont have much of an issue with regards to lugging trolley and barrels.if i bend my knees and keep back straight then im fine!
sounds like you ve got a good set up there dai! ;)
some of you guys must be wimps as dai s 63(i think!) and doing ok with the trolley system!
im well built and made to last!! ;D ;D ;D
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dan im a big lad mate!6ft 2in and 17 stone!ive spent 17 years as a trad window cleaner.before that landscaper gardener.worked on farms since 14 and played drums on and off for 25 years! ;D ;D ;D
i really dont have much of an issue with regards to lugging trolley and barrels.if i bend my knees and keep back straight then im fine!
sounds like you ve got a good set up there dai! ;)
some of you guys must be wimps as dai s 63(i think!) and doing ok with the trolley system!
im well built and made to last!! ;D ;D ;D
;D dazmond do what you are doing and enjoy, by the way I am 5ft6 and weigh 9stone and had no problems with a trolley ;)
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dazmond, i am also 6ft 2 and think you are using the latest freedom trolley which is much lighter than the mark 1, i use.
I got using the trolley down to a fine art even though i had and used van mount as well. But after about a year i started to get what felt like sciatica but which turned out to be a raised hip. I was ok when working or keeping on the move but being stationary hurt like mad.
The masseur told me lifting was the cause and so i stared using the van mount. Within a week the pain was gone, but i'd lived with it for almost 18 months because i could work ok.
The biggest problem i think you might face is if you don't have a good lifting technique due to your height.
I used to haul the trolley onto my thigh and swing it out.
I would still use my trolley as my main work kit if it wasn't for the raised hip because i was very quick and got the water usage right down. So i can understand your joy. Though i do recommend getting a van mount some time.
But make sure you use a good technique or at least vary the side you use if you don't lift it straight out.
I did a year of using strength over technique before i got hit by the pain. So keep an eye on how your body feels and try not to use one side too much.
Otherwise you will need that van mount.
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What exactly is the 'van mount' to which we mention here?
Dave.
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dazmond, i am also 6ft 2 and think you are using the latest freedom trolley which is much lighter than the mark 1, i use.
I got using the trolley down to a fine art even though i had and used van mount as well. But after about a year i started to get what felt like sciatica but which turned out to be a raised hip. I was ok when working or keeping on the move but being stationary hurt like mad.
The masseur told me lifting was the cause and so i stared using the van mount. Within a week the pain was gone, but i'd lived with it for almost 18 months because i could work ok.
The biggest problem i think you might face is if you don't have a good lifting technique due to your height.
I used to haul the trolley onto my thigh and swing it out.
I would still use my trolley as my main work kit if it wasn't for the raised hip because i was very quick and got the water usage right down. So i can understand your joy. Though i do recommend getting a van mount some time.
But make sure you use a good technique or at least vary the side you use if you don't lift it straight out.
I did a year of using strength over technique before i got hit by the pain. So keep an eye on how your body feels and try not to use one side too much.
Otherwise you will need that van mount.
good post mark.after climbing ladders 100+ A DAY for 17 years and ducking under a million washing lines im finding the trolley and wfp much easier as ive had a few niggles with my right knee over the years which have cleared up since using wfp.which ever method we use this job with give us niggles and strains.
i think what could give me strain is rushing too much.i try and keep at a steady measured pace without going hell for leather.
i honestly think that 100m of hose would be a nightmare on big chunks of my work with hose being parked on/dog muck issues/ruining plants and knocking plant pots over.not to mention the extra snagging issues.being so tied to the van with hose trailing everywhere is not ideal for the big runs of work i have.
best wishes
dazmond
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What exactly is the 'van mount' to which we mention here?
Dave.
A hose reel plugged into a water tank in back of van.