Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Bryan_Dolby on November 07, 2010, 11:54:57 am

Title: Blue monkey
Post by: Bryan_Dolby on November 07, 2010, 11:54:57 am
Hi Darren
Just an observation to your comments about the FWC on most posts you have put some input on and the post are not even about the FWC
Every thing is negative 
You have only been registered on this site since June 26, 2010, 01:26:02 PM and you are a member of the guild
Have you read everything about the FWC or is it just an opinion at this moment
I understand everybody as the right to make comments, but some make a conclusion with no prior knowledge
Bryan Dolby
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 07, 2010, 03:38:42 pm
1st time monkey got nothing to say :o :o :o :o

come on darren :P
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 04:31:13 pm
i was actually registered before that i just deleted my account, to try and stop me coming on here, but i couldnt resist it

the opnions i have are my own and if i have negative one about the FWC then i am sorry,  i just do not feel that the FWC operates in the best intrests of window cleaners, as  you only represent a small miniority of wc  but they claim to be the voice of window cleaners,  as the only benefit that i seem to see is legal advice,  this might be down to the fact that the FWC has not publicised what its benefits are to me, as when i looked at the web site, i felt you was over priced for what u was offering

i also feel that it is an old window cleaners club, manily full of window cleaners who have been window cleaning for years, who dont really want change in this business dont really like newbies coming in this business as to me you seem to be a club for tradders as i think i remember right the FWC was against wfp at the start

no disrespect to you bryan, i have never met you and this isnt against you, i just feel that the if that the FWC needs bringing up to date,  prehaps new blood at the top 

i was brought up  around liverpool where everything was union this union that,  i dont like unions or federations that claim to speak for every one,  when they get there opnions from a small miniorty

i joined the guild becasue it was £20, and looked good on the web site

Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 05:43:04 pm
Bryan

Don't worry mate, some windows would just give the fed a bad name if they were members.

Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 05:44:20 pm
ur right dave i probably would ;D
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 05:59:48 pm
I think the fwc is too cheap and too easy to join, should make the joining criteria similar to safecontractor, then you would a truly meaningful association.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 06:02:49 pm
I think the fwc is too cheap and too easy to join, should make the joining criteria similar to safecontractor, then you would a truly meaningful association.

i agree,  i can see the point in joining safe contractor and the others, just cant see the point in joining the FWC,
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 07, 2010, 06:10:56 pm
I think the fwc is too cheap and too easy to join, should make the joining criteria similar to safecontractor, then you would a truly meaningful association.
but how do you hope to increae the membership,if you all got to have same paperwork etc to safecotractor or more.this means dave that the one man band who the fwc where hoping to attact and surport would be lost.

Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 06:21:39 pm
I think the fwc is too cheap and too easy to join, should make the joining criteria similar to safecontractor, then you would a truly meaningful association.
but how do you hope to increae the membership,if you all got to have same paperwork etc to safecotractor or more.this means dave that the one man band who the fwc where hoping to attact and surport would be lost.



they dont want the one man band to join,  they just want the big boys,  give it a few years the FWC will be pushing for licences for all window cleaners and areas,  and u can bet the FWC will get the job to hand them out,  with out one u wont be able to work, 

i am just amazed that because i dont like the FWC i must be a crap wc,
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 07, 2010, 06:37:20 pm
i can see dave point of view darren and why,but someone like me whos building up and would like to be part of the fwc would be put off join,just my thought and my view.



i am gald that we do have these association and the work they do.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ronnie paton on November 07, 2010, 06:40:30 pm
safe contractor is poo there a joke.

Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 06:51:17 pm
franky

like i said these are just my opinions, but if i had been saying the guild wasnt worth joining do u think i would of been pulled up my nat, and then get told that if i was a member i would of just give it a bad name,

Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 07, 2010, 07:14:49 pm
franky

like i said these are just my opinions, but if i had been saying the guild wasnt worth joining do u think i would of been pulled up my nat, and then get told that if i was a member i would of just give it a bad name,


::) :P
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: mark m on November 07, 2010, 07:15:40 pm
i was actually registered before that i just deleted my account, to try and stop me coming on here, but i couldnt resist it

the opnions i have are my own and if i have negative one about the FWC then i am sorry,  i just do not feel that the FWC operates in the best intrests of window cleaners, as  you only represent a small miniority of wc  but they claim to be the voice of window cleaners,  as the only benefit that i seem to see is legal advice,  this might be down to the fact that the FWC has not publicised what its benefits are to me, as when i looked at the web site, i felt you was over priced for what u was offering

i also feel that it is an old window cleaners club, manily full of window cleaners who have been window cleaning for years, who dont really want change in this business dont really like newbies coming in this business as to me you seem to be a club for tradders as i think i remember right the FWC was against wfp at the start






I am a newbee to this site and a part time window cleaner for the 2 years who is trying to get advise on lots of things thats why i joined as i am going full time next year  . I have been a builder for 26 years and a member FMB for the last 10  i have never used them and i will not be using them again . So if blue monkey does not want to be a member leave him alone we have a choice and i agree with him well said blue monkey now my names mud so what

no disrespect to you bryan, i have never met you and this isnt against you, i just feel that the if that the FWC needs bringing up to date,  prehaps new blood at the top 

i was brought up  around liverpool where everything was union this union that,  i dont like unions or federations that claim to speak for every one,  when they get there opnions from a small miniorty

i joined the guild becasue it was £20, and looked good on the web site


Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 08:43:00 pm
Frank

I would structure it so those who joined would be given help to achieve a creditation, similar to how safecontractor do.

I wouldn't care about the number of members I would care about the quality of the members.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 08:52:33 pm
Darren

I have given the fwc an hard ride in the past, but I have never once said that joining was a waste of time, in fact I value badges very much

Never heard them talk about licensing

They are Interested in the small guy, hence the joining fee, if they were just after bigger fish, the price to join would be far higher.

Think you need to do more research !
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 08:57:13 pm
no prob dave, i will do more research, i am not going to fall out with any one over a difference of opinion

to be honest everything to do with wc lately is annoying the hell out of me, and the FWC is probably just getting it
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Clive McDonald on November 07, 2010, 09:03:35 pm
If they have 2000 members and soak them for £200 that's an annuall income of 400k.What on earth do they do with all that money?

It's a run for profit business isn't it? Who owns it?
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Frankybadboy on November 07, 2010, 09:05:10 pm
Frank

I would structure it so those who joined would be given help to achieve a creditation, similar to how safecontractor do.

I wouldn't care about the number of members I would care about the quality of the members.

dave
top one i say yes.


but with the second you wouldnt have this problem if you done it as above.


but the old saying only as big as your members....
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ian1972 on November 07, 2010, 09:21:21 pm
Everyone starts small some want to stay that way others have ambition to get bigger,and from what I have seen big commercial work wants you to have the badges memberships to things like safe contractor fwc and simaler
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: G Griffin on November 07, 2010, 09:28:48 pm
They are Interested in the small guy, hence the joining fee, if they were just after bigger fish, the price to join would be far higher.

So you saying it`s too cheap and should be dearer, are you saying it should be for the bigger guys?
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 09:42:28 pm
No just be more stringent, if you look at any other trade association, you will see the fwc is about half the price, ie ncca, nfb,
That way there will be more money for assessments and help for window cleaners
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: G Griffin on November 07, 2010, 09:50:24 pm
No just be more stringent, if you look at any other trade association, you will see the fwc is about half the price, ie ncca, nfb,
That way there will be more money for assessments and help for window cleaners

You didn`t answer my question.
You advocate a higher price, which you say would deter smaller outfits. So are you saying it shouldn`t be for the small guy?
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 09:55:22 pm
at £200, it is still a lot of money for people to spend on the off chance they might get commercial work off it, as this is what they require  plus all the other fees  safe contractos etc

there seems to be 2 types of window cleaners,  ones who join all the groups and ones that might join 1, but doesnt as happy being small
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 10:02:06 pm
Never said it shouldn't be for the small guy at all, your just trying to put words in my mouth, please read my last posts.

At present £100 is very good value in deed, I would like to see more criteria to join and in turn would cost more money.

To an average window cleaner £100 is small change

If you had a worthwhile certificate, wouldn't it be worth paying a bit more
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ronnie paton on November 07, 2010, 10:03:15 pm
is it just me but dave comment were pretty disrespectful, he was saying the people that dont get the F-W-C are people who would give it a bad name??

i mean he is a moderator but comes up which such a statement that kind of says we would tarnish the reputation of the fwc.

not one person has apart from blue monkey has commented on this, if this was said by someine else the whole forum would be on is back, is this window cleaners politics?

is it cause dave is maybe doing well is has become a god??

now im not trying get a argument going but i think if you step back you will see what im saying dave

and the others who have not commented i  also think if you step back and think about it you would of commented negatively towards this statement if it was say ewan?
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 10:06:56 pm
To join the fed it is  £100 at the moment, not £200
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: bobby p on November 07, 2010, 10:14:31 pm
If they have 2000 members and soak them for £200 that's an annuall income of 400k.What on earth do they do with all that money?

It's a run for profit business isn't it? Who owns it?
yeh, that big money in anybodys books.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 10:16:49 pm
Ron,  Never said that at all,  re read please.  ;D
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ronnie paton on November 07, 2010, 10:19:24 pm
Bryan

Don't worry mate, some windows would just give the fed a bad name if they were members.



this is the statement and it was said directly after a post by blue monkey i think, you know i know and everyone knows what you ment by it dave.

Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 10:24:08 pm
Ok Ron

it was a Tongue in cheek dig at blue monkey, he knows me, we have met a few times, maybe. I should of put a smiley in it for you , but didn't think I had to as it was aimed just at him,

I don't always expect people to think the worst when I post.

Just ask blue
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: G Griffin on November 07, 2010, 10:26:22 pm
They are Interested in the small guy, hence the joining fee, if they were just after bigger fish, the price to join would be far higher.

Are you saying the cost to join is directly related to the type who would join?
Then you recommend a higher price, which would encourage bigger firms according to this logic.  
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 10:26:46 pm
Ok Ron
it was a Tongue in cheek dig at blue monkey, he knows me, we have met a few times, maybe. I should of put a smiley in it for you , but didn't think I had to as it was aimed just at him,

I don't always expect people to think the worst when I post.

Just ask blue
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 10:28:31 pm
If they were after bigger fish £400 wouldn't be unreasonable, wait until the new trade association launches.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 07, 2010, 10:33:07 pm
i know what dave wrote and what ways it can be taken,  to be honest i dont really care what people say to me on here,  if dave thinks i am a poop window cleaner then that his is opinion,  i am happy doing what i am doing with my business,

if some one wants to join the fwc and go after commercial then that is up to them,  but the whole point of this forum is to exchange opinions,  to me the fwc is not for me,  if in the future it changes then it might be,    but i said new blood at the top as no disrespect to bryan,  but different ideas are comming out how the fwc can be improved, if they ask wc what they want from there fed then they might get more going, rather than people feeling that it is only for the big boys
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ronnie paton on November 07, 2010, 10:35:14 pm
dave this is how i see it, you have done extremly well so well done  but you come accross arogant at times.

now remember you had your doubts about f-w-c also in the past and i think only joined because your thing failed, now you kind always big your self up on here but you also can come accross has to belittle the one man bands/smaller window cleaners

just remember 2 years ago you didnt think twice about ringing me up asking for advice/info and i was far your junior in terms of experience(been running buysiness 3years then, ubut i didnt mind though)

maybe im being to touchy today but this is how iv seen it and would expect better from a mod.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 10:48:33 pm
Just because I am a mod doesn't mean I can't have opinions.

I have never been a wallflower or a yes man, I also have strong opinions and have never spoken anything but my mind.

I have been like that since day 1, and the day I can't be myself I will stand down.

I have helped loads of windows cleaners ,even invited them into my home, answered all there questions, shown them the ropes.

 Never been arrogant, maybe come across that way, to some, but hey ho, that's life !
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ronnie paton on November 07, 2010, 10:55:53 pm
stand up and be counted than your comment was a joke and disrespectful not a opinion just a dig that if they dont follow you there not worthy.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: G Griffin on November 07, 2010, 10:57:31 pm
Just because I am a mod doesn't mean I can't have opinions.

I have never been a wallflower or a yes man, I also have strong opinions and have never spoken anything but my mind.

I have been like that since day 1, and the day I can't be myself I will stand down.

I have helped loads of windows cleaners ,even invited them into my home, answered all there questions, shown them the ropes.

 Never been arrogant, maybe come across that way, to some, but hey ho, that's life !


Yeah, it does a bit.
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: chopsie on November 07, 2010, 10:57:50 pm
Is everyone on here on the rag this week
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 11:00:25 pm
Ok I am arrogant.

Wifes a bit prickley tonight too.  ;D
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: G Griffin on November 07, 2010, 11:18:00 pm
Ok I am arrogant.

Wifes a bit prickley tonight too.  ;D

 No offence meant  :).
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 07, 2010, 11:23:05 pm
None taken
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ian1972 on November 08, 2010, 06:49:54 am
This is getting a bit daft now,ever
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: ian1972 on November 08, 2010, 07:43:30 am
Hate coming on here on phone it keeps cutting off,anyway I don't think anyone should be getting nasty or personal about this everyone is entitled to there opinion weather that be good or bad,the forum is a info stop off point mainly were people pick up ideas of moor experiand guys,both ronnie and dave seem to of done well out of this game.and any ideas or help they can give should be taken seriously,only dave and blue monkey no if the dig that was made was serious or not but yes it did sound harsh and nasty from a outsiders view,so pack it in you lot!!!!!!!! Lol
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Bryan_Dolby on November 08, 2010, 08:02:20 pm
Hi Everybody
Sorry for not giving any feedback but just finished my home work
It is very frustrating reading comments on here about the FWC from people who have never been members of the FWC and only just been window cleaning a few years.
Let me give you just a couple of things the FWC as achieved in the last few years
Got the HSE to give what is legislation about cleaning balconies
Meeting with the HSE to discuss health and safety problems
What would have happened if the EU got their way and they did BAN LADDERS? FWC fought this all the way and got the result. (5 years of fighting)
HSE production of ladders guidance
Organise trade shows
IOSH health and safety training
Help write the NVQ standards
Help write the BETEC standards
HAS ANY OF THE ABOVE HELPED YOUR BUISNESS
These are just a few of the things they have achieved and as you can see a lot of window cleaners that are not members of the FWC have gained by this
The FWC is changing but this cannot happen over night so please give them some time
The FWC membership as got more one man bands as members than the bigger companies
The post as done its requirements, thank you Darren for been honest it was not done in malice just an observation.
Bryan
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 08, 2010, 08:10:48 pm
no prob bryan, like i said i aint going to fall out with any one over opinons
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: lee09 on November 08, 2010, 08:18:16 pm


It is very frustrating reading comments on here about the FWC from people who have never been members of the FWC and only just been window cleaning a few years.


This is exactly what puts me off the fed. Is there a time limit on how long we should have traded before we can apply. I have 10 years experience is that enough.
I do not doubt you have worked and have the best interests of members at heart, but it still seems like a old man's club.
Now if you could negotiate cheaper van insurance deals for wfp, I would be impressed
I don't mean to always jump on your posts.
Lee
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: Bryan_Dolby on November 08, 2010, 08:59:28 pm
Lee

Good question

I think you have to look at the bigger picture no one can go for cheaper van insurance ,Public  liability & Employers  Liability at this moment ,I have been  to meetings with the under writers in London , but they said there’s to many claims (for every pound they get in they were paying 3 pounds out)
The reason the policies are going up is because of the claims history
You have only got to look on here how many vans have been stolen or crashed with no fault of the owner ,but some were some one is dipping into the pot of money and its running out so insurance goes up
The other side to this is the quality of the policy; you will only know how good your policy is when you try to claim.
I have been contacted by a lot of window cleaners with what they thought good policy but when they tried to claim the insurance company said
LOOK AT THE SMALL PRINT YOU ARE NOT COVERED FOR THAT
Bryan
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: darren clarke on November 08, 2010, 09:26:13 pm
bryan, how about contact the water companyies and getting legit windows cleaners cheaper water  as all they need is  registered with the tax man
Title: Re: Blue monkey
Post by: AuRavelling79 on November 08, 2010, 09:49:31 pm
Hi Everybody
Sorry for not giving any feedback but just finished my home work

That's ok.

It is very frustrating reading comments on here about the FWC from people who have never been members of the FWC and only just been window cleaning a few years.

The problem for your org. is that a lot of windies have started in the last few years and see no relevance in the FED. I think they see the FED as an anachronism.

Let me give you just a couple of things the FWC as achieved in the last few years
Got the HSE to give what is legislation about cleaning balconies
Meeting with the HSE to discuss health and safety problems
What would have happened if the EU got their way and they did BAN LADDERS? FWC fought this all the way and got the result. (5 years of fighting)

If ladders for window cleaning were banned and enforced we would have a safer industry. I seem to manage just fine with no ladders despite there being no absolute ban. In my opinion the fighting to retain ladders at all but minimal height shows protectionism for the old trad. "boys club", not a desire to improve safety for their workers.

HSE production of ladders guidance

See above

Organise trade shows

 ::)

IOSH health and safety training

You lost me at fighting to retain ladders

Help write the NVQ standards
Help write the BETEC standards

Gimme a break! - This is window cleaning!

HAS ANY OF THE ABOVE HELPED YOUR BUISNESS

No

These are just a few of the things they have achieved and as you can see a lot of window cleaners that are not members of the FWC have gained by this
The FWC is changing but this cannot happen over night so please give them some time
The FWC membership as got more one man bands as members than the bigger companies
The post as done its requirements, thank you Darren for been honest it was not done in malice just an observation.
Bryan


Bryan -  I believe I have not gained one jot from the Fed. I remember the posts from Phil Hanson who joined and who I believe asked to see the FED accounts - am I right in saying he asked to see the accounts and that he wasn't allowed to?

I have never been asked (by county councils, blue chip companies or "Doris Domestic") if I am a member of the FED. They do ask if I am a) insured and b) wfp, though.

The only thing that the Fed would have done for me is to put a logo on my headed paper so that I could demonstrate I was a "bona fide" business.

Now the Guild has started with a requirement that I have to have public liability insurance. (And I get a logo too.) That makes sense. And it is worth £20.