Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Pryor on November 05, 2010, 09:53:13 am

Title: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee Pryor on November 05, 2010, 09:53:13 am
All the talk of this on here this week I just dont understand???

I run multiple vans,staff,services and a large commercial and residential round all from exel spreadsheets for free.

Its so simple and does everything I need, so I dont see why more people dont do this.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on November 05, 2010, 09:58:52 am
Do you fancy uploading a sample of how you do it?
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: darren clarke on November 05, 2010, 10:08:07 am
i have been looking at geting software,  wcp  no way,  round tracker, i cant get to work as i have microsoft works,  adn cant get use to george,  so am back on excel for time being,  as done me for 18 months so should do me for a few more
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee Pryor on November 05, 2010, 10:14:20 am
I have 1 master sheet with all the customers and there details.

12 weekly work sheets that get printed and used as daily job sheets. as we offer 6 and 12 week frequency these are set out with the customers in a fixed list making them as compact as possible, no more ordering work each night. I use google earth to locate customers positions in relation to others and arrange the week sheets in the most efficient order, which only has to be done once.

a 6 week customer appears in the list twice a 12 weeker once.

Then I have an unpaid sheet, at the end of the day any customer that didnt pay my staff at the time of the clean gets copied and pasted from the job sheet into the unpaid sheet and the date added (it takes no time at all) after 10 days I use mail merge to produce a pre written late payment letter, even 100 takes just 5 minutes to do.

Theres more to it of course like the use of colours for residential and commercial or one off cleans and so on, I use a job sheet notes field to tell my staff if extra services are being carried out and when. it flags to me if they need a text alert and so on. cant fault it, and I have tried various programmes in the past, 3 years ago I spent £3k on a custom system which a programme wrote to my design, but later we fell out and I had to come up with a solution fast, turns out what I do now works better than anything I have tried before. there are down sides but not many.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Blue Frog Systems on November 05, 2010, 10:17:44 am
Daz, stick with it. It takes some getting used to... But worth it.


Not used excel sheets, just paper & software.

Would be interested to see how the excel sheets work.

When i moved from paper to software, it made everything alot easyer for me. I struggle to write more than a couple of lines since i broke my hand, so my wife was having to write everything out for me.

Software made it easyer and meant i could do more.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Steve CM on November 05, 2010, 10:19:00 am
unless we see an example Lee it will be hard to see how your doing it

I used to use Excel and it was a ball ache. but then i may not of had it set up correctly. since george the wcp my life has been simpler. especially with invoicing etc and debt management
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: ant french on November 05, 2010, 10:25:24 am
im currently using george trial one but it looks worthy of buying i think, ive added customers etc and i love the way its layed out and its simple. tried to use excel but i gave up
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 05, 2010, 10:36:18 am
i like the retro way of doing it. I can remember all my work and the prices, at the end of the day i write down each job in the diary and put a "P"  next to it if they have paid. When i come to do that days work the next wonth i take my diary with me, see what houses dont have P next to them so i know who hasnt paid. Its far quicker than messing about with the computer when i get home, and i dont have to worry about loosing my data if my pc breaks down.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: sunshine windows on November 05, 2010, 11:07:40 am
Excel for me too. Master sheet copied and pasted to monthly spreadsheet. I have a column which tells me if they're monthly, bi-monthly and so on. Takes just a few minutes to delete the ones that aren't due. A column with the price, another column which I enter the price in when paid or a B if its billed, then an additional column for the date of payment. It stays blank until I get the cheque in the post from those that are billed.

Takes another couple of minutes at the start of each weekly block of work to see who gave still got a B next to their address.

Sounds like a headache I know but it's so simple
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: erithwc on November 05, 2010, 11:17:20 am
i have taken the day off today so if you want me to set up your work sheet for you thats fine just send me all you customers details address, amount, name ect and i will do it for you lol  ;D :D
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Smudger on November 05, 2010, 11:40:16 am
While i agree excel sheets can be used to good effect ( and i used them for a good few months ) they can take up a
lot of time and the paperwork side can get quite demanding, and can be easy to miss out or get confused.

the point of WCP or George is that it manages all this for you, and in the case of WCP we now spend less than 5 minutes inputting payments and printing off the next days rounds.

it comes into its own when weather delays cleans or we have to re jig a round etc...

debt lists are instant and when payment recieved (through post as cheque or online) custy is removed with a
click of the mouse.

Darran
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 05, 2010, 12:47:33 pm
My computer programme is God.

It tells us what to do, where to go, how to get there, prints invoices, analyses payment trends, records payment methods i.e. chq numbers and indexes them, produces letters for bad payers, records incidents, plus many other things too numerous to mention.


I am a dab hand at excel but my programme is worth it's weight in gold. 
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: ronnie paton on November 05, 2010, 01:01:21 pm
form b what is it called?
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 05, 2010, 01:03:03 pm
form b what is it called?

 G & S Souter LTD

Customer Management System v1.04

Designed by:

http://norhaus.com/clientfocus.aspx?client=gs_souter
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: ronnie paton on November 05, 2010, 01:19:49 pm
how muh was it and how long did it take?
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 05, 2010, 01:33:19 pm
how muh was it and how long did it take?

The original design was done as part of another deal. The cost is difficult to determine because of many factors. I valued it at £1500 at the time. The actual cost to me was considerably less. That was around 4 years ago. I recently got George (that is actually his name, how ironic) in to do some modifications and updates, that stung me £800. If you were to consider that as a monthly figure (as I know that is how some of the other programmes are costed) that's only £16.66 per month. 

EDIT: It has paid for itself many times over in time saved alone. 

The original set up time was maybe 2 weeks, the recent updates were about a week.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 05, 2010, 01:44:35 pm
Excel is easily destroyed, if the person inputting the information is not briefed on the do's and dont's. Someone can pretty much sit down in front of the programme I use and away they go. I understand it's similar for the other widely used software.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: john tomkins on November 05, 2010, 01:47:52 pm
i like the retro way of doing it. I can remember all my work and the prices, at the end of the day i write down each job in the diary and put a "P"  next to it if they have paid. When i come to do that days work the next wonth i take my diary with me, see what houses dont have P next to them so i know who hasnt paid. Its far quicker than messing about with the computer when i get home, and i dont have to worry about loosing my data if my pc breaks down.

Hey Lee how about is someone nicks ya van with the diary in it, you'd be stuffed then, at least with the PC I got multiple backups :)
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Alex Allen on November 05, 2010, 02:19:01 pm
All the talk of this on here this week I just dont understand???

I run multiple vans,staff,services and a large commercial and residential round all from exel spreadsheets for free.

Its so simple and does everything I need, so I dont see why more people dont do this.


dont think £50 for george is expensive even if you have 1 van
got to be a bargain if you use it for lots of vans
most would spend£50 on their business to see if its going to improve things
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 05, 2010, 02:41:07 pm
i like the retro way of doing it. I can remember all my work and the prices, at the end of the day i write down each job in the diary and put a "P"  next to it if they have paid. When i come to do that days work the next wonth i take my diary with me, see what houses dont have P next to them so i know who hasnt paid. Its far quicker than messing about with the computer when i get home, and i dont have to worry about loosing my data if my pc breaks down.

Hey Lee how about is someone nicks ya van with the diary in it, you'd be stuffed then, at least with the PC I got multiple backups :)


why would i be stuffed?
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 05, 2010, 03:03:58 pm
i like the retro way of doing it. I can remember all my work and the prices, at the end of the day i write down each job in the diary and put a "P"  next to it if they have paid. When i come to do that days work the next wonth i take my diary with me, see what houses dont have P next to them so i know who hasnt paid. Its far quicker than messing about with the computer when i get home, and i dont have to worry about loosing my data if my pc breaks down.

 :o

That must take a minute or 2
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 05, 2010, 03:22:44 pm
not really, i have 6-7 in the same streets, so i onlky have to write down numbers, on the days when im doing the bigger houses, i only have to write down 8 houses, can write half down at lunch the other half when i get home, quicker than turning on the pc, loading the program up ect...
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 05, 2010, 03:51:22 pm
not really, i have 6-7 in the same streets, so i onlky have to write down numbers, on the days when im doing the bigger houses, i only have to write down 8 houses, can write half down at lunch the other half when i get home, quicker than turning on the pc, loading the program up ect...

I seriously doubt that.

Each to their own I suppose.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Paul Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:33:59 pm
All the talk of this on here this week I just dont understand???

I run multiple vans,staff,services and a large commercial and residential round all from exel spreadsheets for free.

Its so simple and does everything I need, so I dont see why more people dont do this.

Quite agree Lee.
I'm even more of a tightwad than you because I use MS Works.
Mind you, it cause a problem if my business was large because  spreadsheet linking isn't supported.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Paul Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:57:33 pm
I am a sole trader.
I use one spreadsheet to record the work that I do with my expenditure on another part of the sheet (starting from an EX cell as easy to remember).  The expenditures are listed so that I can apportion some items (e.g. the van is my only vehicle so part private use).
I also have two databases.
On one of them I have my customer records with the date of the last clean (the date of the next clean is calculated into another field by a formula).  This database also shows the prices and who owes money.
I print any lists I need by setting the reports.  The reports part is the real engine room as this is where I set things up to manipulate the data to show me what I want to see  e.g.  who owes money I have it set for <address fields><amount outstanding>
To print a list of work due I have a report called nearlydue. NOW() .  It revolves around a field that I call countdown.  In countdown is a number which is calculated by NOW()-nextvisit.  To produce a list for the next three days the filter is set to only produce a list of records where countdown is >=-3.  For a week it would be >=-7.  It produces lists that are fine for me but would need tidying up if someone else was working from them.  In truth though, I don't really need a list as it's OK in my head mostly.  I just have a quick refresher look to see what's coming up and commit it to memory.
I also have a second database.  This is for invoiced work only where I keep the records for commercial work invoices.  I produce the invoices from a works word processor file by mailmerging from this second database.
It sounds complex but the hardest bit was setting it up in the first place.  Most of it I did myself.  A little bit of it was done with help from the nerdy end of the internet.  That's why I prefer software that is more widely used - because there are more places for support on the odd occasion it may be needed.
 
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: dazmond on November 05, 2010, 05:10:55 pm
i used to think like you lee but trust me!a round software program like george is so much better,easier and a lot more professional mate!try the free download!you wont regret it! ;) ;D ;D


dazmond
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 05, 2010, 05:16:44 pm
Why does it need to look professional? Who gets to see it apart from you? I think that some people think that having a price of software make them feel better than just having a window cleaning business, because that's all it is, window cleaning
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Smudger on November 05, 2010, 05:17:28 pm
Paul, no offence   but

your post/explaination is the EXACT reason why i use WCPro   :o

Darran
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: dazmond on November 05, 2010, 05:23:57 pm
lee i meant the printed invoices for commercial custies/finance reports and end of year reports for my accountant.


dazmond
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Paul Coleman on November 05, 2010, 05:28:00 pm
Paul, no offence   but

your post/explaination is the EXACT reason why i use WCPro   :o

Darran

None taken  ;D .
I suppose that if you tried to explain the details of cleaning a window to someone who had never done it , it would sound very complicated.  Yet it is pretty simple really - especially when you've been doing it for a while.  The same with software manipulation.
If you were sitting beside me for maybe 15 - 20 minutes and I actually showed you how I do things, you would realise that the way I do things is quite easy.  Trust me.  If it needed a lot of brain power I wouldn't be doing it  ;D
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Smudger on November 05, 2010, 05:34:58 pm
i think excel is a brilliant bit of s/ware esp used with the other ms stuff,  years ago i had loads of stuff like
this for production and stock control - i could even write formulas ( sorry about spelling )  but just opted for
something that needed no brain power !
best decision as my partner now does all the office stuff and just turning the pc on can be a challenge  :-X
( hope she don't read this thread or i'm a dead man..... ??? )

Darran
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: john tomkins on November 05, 2010, 07:12:33 pm
i like the retro way of doing it. I can remember all my work and the prices, at the end of the day i write down each job in the diary and put a "P"  next to it if they have paid. When i come to do that days work the next wonth i take my diary with me, see what houses dont have P next to them so i know who hasnt paid. Its far quicker than messing about with the computer when i get home, and i dont have to worry about loosing my data if my pc breaks down.

Hey Lee how about is someone nicks ya van with the diary in it, you'd be stuffed then, at least with the PC I got multiple backups :)


why would i be stuffed?


Errrrmmm, coz you got your diary in it and no back up :o
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 05, 2010, 07:29:12 pm
i like the retro way of doing it. I can remember all my work and the prices, at the end of the day i write down each job in the diary and put a "P"  next to it if they have paid. When i come to do that days work the next wonth i take my diary with me, see what houses dont have P next to them so i know who hasnt paid. Its far quicker than messing about with the computer when i get home, and i dont have to worry about loosing my data if my pc breaks down.

Hey Lee how about is someone nicks ya van with the diary in it, you'd be stuffed then, at least with the PC I got multiple backups :)


why would i be stuffed?


Errrrmmm, coz you got your diary in it and no back up :o


back up for what?

I know all my work and prices, i have a separate book for accounting which i always have up to date, worst case i may forget a couple of people who havent paid me. It hasn't been nicked in seven years, and the van never gets locked at work or at home (tell a lie i lock it when its in a car park when im getting lunch.)
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Clive McDonald on November 06, 2010, 11:21:25 pm
I'm very impressed with your explanation lee, and you have a brilliantly ordered mind.

My round and business is much smaller than yours.

I use wcpro.

I take four worksheets and clipboards out with me each day.They relate to different areas.I switch and chop.I achieve max earnings every day.I do constantly have to figure routes and make new connections.


Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: dave0123 on November 06, 2010, 11:26:35 pm
I know all my customers... and i also know all my prices.. i even no about 95% of what people owe me what..

but i carnt keep track when every single customer is coming up to be due.. and what order etc
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 07, 2010, 09:31:16 am
I know all my customers... and i also know all my prices.. i even no about 95% of what people owe me what..

but i carnt keep track when every single customer is coming up to be due.. and what order etc

We have 4 set weeks and the work never moves from 1week to the next, I think it help though that we have 4different areas where the work is so it's easier to know what houses to do, the work is also done in the same order each time which helps keep track of it
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: The Jester of Wibbly on November 07, 2010, 09:59:25 am
For me it is about saving time and having a good system in place.  I use george and £50 is a small price to pay for many years of use. 

I have a PDA, so all i do is tick off the jobs i do, tick off when payments made, then at the end of the day plug into my laptop to trasfer data.  At the end of the year, I click on a button than prints off my tax return figures I need. 

It must save me a hours of work a week. 

£50 quid would not take long to earn out there cleaning windows to pay for it, yet creating a complex spreadsheet I am sure would take longer.  (at least for me anyway). So doing the math, it makes sense for me.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Crystal-clear on November 07, 2010, 12:43:40 pm
Excel all the way its free and easy ,i wouldnt dare spend £100 or whatever it is on that software  :o and hopefully as i get more work etc ill still be using my spread sheets :)
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 07, 2010, 12:48:10 pm
Excel all the way its free and easy ,i wouldnt dare spend £100 or whatever it is on that software  :o and hopefully as i get more work etc ill still be using my spread sheets :)

Excel free?

Bill must be felling generous these days.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 07, 2010, 12:48:25 pm
after reading this topic i did download the trial version of george. I have to say i thought it was rubbish, i know there are people on here who love it, but just to get 1 customer on it took me 10 mins, it looks like something that should be running on windows 3.1. if you want to go down the pc route, then just input all your customers on excel an print it off.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: Lee GLS on November 07, 2010, 12:49:40 pm
Excel all the way its free and easy ,i wouldnt dare spend £100 or whatever it is on that software  :o and hopefully as i get more work etc ill still be using my spread sheets :)

Excel free?

Bill must be felling generous these days.

if you want to use an excel type of program there is a free microsoft office equivelent call openoffice, its completely free.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 07, 2010, 12:53:39 pm
after reading this topic i did download the trial version of george. I have to say i thought it was rubbish, i know there are people on here who love it, but just to get 1 customer on it took me 10 mins, it looks like something that should be running on windows 3.1. if you want to go down the pc route, then just input all your customers on excel an print it off.

I agree that the switch over from book to pc can be a pain especially for an established round, I had about 1000 customers when I did it, I ended up paying someone who was quicker at typing than me to do it.

If you want to grow you really have to look at computerising your round, whether its excel or George or any other software.

Computers are a tool. If used properly they make your life easier.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: formb on November 07, 2010, 12:59:01 pm
Excel all the way its free and easy ,i wouldnt dare spend £100 or whatever it is on that software  :o and hopefully as i get more work etc ill still be using my spread sheets :)

Excel free?

Bill must be felling generous these days.

if you want to use an excel type of program there is a free microsoft office equivelent call openoffice, its completely free.


Openoffice is not excel! I agree that it is probably good enough for typing up a list of customers, but excel it isnt.
Title: Re: why bother with expensive software programmes?
Post by: dave0123 on November 07, 2010, 01:43:47 pm
Quote
after reading this topic i did download the trial version of george. I have to say i thought it was rubbish, i know there are people on here who love it, but just to get 1 customer on it took me 10 mins, it looks like something that should be running on windows 3.1. if you want to go down the pc route, then just input all your customers on excel an print it off.

It probably took you 10 mins to put one customer on George because you have never used it before! like anything it takes time to learn things just like window cleaning with mop and blade and same with WFP when you get that.

once you have played around for a hour or two takes less than a minuite to input a customer on George.. much faster than wcp anyway