Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: brianbarber on November 04, 2010, 08:03:12 pm
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On now
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Rouge carpet cleaners
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Wonder if it's these enterprise people I been hearing about, phone up random numbers with a 'offer' on >:(
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hopefully it will be available in some download format or on youtube, then we can use it
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Sky plussed it
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YESSSSSSSSSSSSS ABOUT TIME ;D
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I should come clean and say that as the closest carpet cleaner to the head office I have had several conversations with some tv people ;D ;D ;D
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OOOOOOOHHHHHHH Bad boys!
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BAIT WAS 8.99 clean , switched to £167 for a proper clean!
Proper , meaning a prochem porty , pushed by a kid in tracky bottoms and trainers.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2010/11/enterprise_carpet_cleaning.html
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Good on watchdog, getting the actress to stick it out fir the £8.99 deal. LOL !!
Mr B
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I know it was made clear just then of that company's name and not to be confused with any other, but I feel sorry for the others with similar names. Did a quick Google search and there's a few. People would be put off regardless as I think they will only take into account the words 'Enterprise Cleaning' forgetting other details.
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anybody have a photo of the owner??
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i thought we weren't allowed to slag off cheap carpet cleaners ;D
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At least the guy stood and answered the questions Mark Alwright asked, they usually try to run him over or otherwise, just run away...
I'd work for him, if I thought the Cornish were stupid enough to fall for those type of tactics.... ;D (I am joking.... seriously!)
At the end of the day, bait and switch is set out to catch the greedy price shopping twits (Oh, my 'a' button's broken again) that we all hate anyway!
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Obviously a bunch of idiots. If you are going to do a cheap quick job that on the face of it doesn't look half bad, use a rotary.
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About time too!
Disappointed that they didn't mention the fact that Enterprise have branches in places other than Wimborne though.
What are the chances of the telesales girls turning in for work tomorrow?!
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i thought we weren't allowed to slag off cheap carpet cleaners ;D
I REST MY CASE LOL
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LOL
There's cheap and then there's CHEAP!
Enterprise are or were in a league of their own.
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Yes Matt,
precisely the kind of thing i was referring to on my website which you took offence at
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Will this help or hinder us? I just think we will all be tarred with the same brush. If in doubt do nothing. Merry Christmas Watchdog. >:(
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As this mob were in my area and taking a massive amount of work from other carpet cleaners this can only be a good thing as far as I am concerned.
Regardless of how it affects me, I just feel relieved for all the people who would have been scammed by this mob had something not been done. A lot of their victims were the elderly just as the idiot in Wimborne described.
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Wynne
Have you tried modern L/M cleaning like Texatherm to allow you make an informed opinion rather than slag it off as second rate, which it certainly is not.
T/M operators in Canada and the U S would not be abandoning their machines in favour of the latest O/P machines and chemicals if they failed to deliver a quality service to their clients, which it clearly does.
All builders and tradesmen as well as carpet cleaners have " rogue traders " in their ranks but they still get work.
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hopefully it will be available in some download format or on youtube, then we can use it
Will be downloadable from BBCi player probably from tomorrow in a variety of file sizes
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All builders and tradesmen as well as carpet cleaners have " rogue traders " in their ranks but they still get work.
Most trades are necessary or "needs". Carpet and upholstery cleaning is more of a luxary service or a "want". For example, you wouldn't call a plumber cos you fancied getting your drains cleared or calling a builder to fix that hole in your roof cos it looks silly....
Carpet cleaning isn't necessary, you can easly replace them or live with the dirt. (lets be honest!)
So i dont think this type of publicity is a good thing.
Having said that, how many people actaully watch watchdog?? and how many people actaully remember what they ate yestarday?? lol chippy paper and all that jazz...
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totally agree think this is bad press for carpet cleaning in general
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I don't think its bad press.
The reason being is if you are one of those customers who believe you can have a carpet cleaned for £8.99 then more fool you. They are customers no-one wants, price shoppers, they are buying a service based purely on price.
Most people who you go out and quote to realise, that a good job will cost a reasonable amount of money, not £8.99.
Also people buy from people (they like).
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Looking at the positive.
If any of "YOUR" customers saw the programme, what would THEY be thinking???
I would like to think mine would be saying "We are so glad that we have a good carpet cleaner in Joe, he charges what he said at the beginning, and does a brilliant job, he is clean, tidy, polite, on time, respectful of our home, yes, we are happy to have him around anytime. And he gets the carpets clean and they are dry in no time. MUST CALL HIM TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT"
I'm happy ;)
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Always look on the Bright Side as Joe says.................Use it in a mail shot to your customers and encourage them to look at the download.
Provided, of course you don't use similar tactics ;D
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While I do not condone Bait and Switch
I do wonder if the Customers was being charged an unfair price.
£4.99 a metre was quoted for a deep down clean that is the price a lot of Carpet Cleaners Charge
My concern is customers will now think they are being robbed when we quote a genuine £4.99 metre.
What the Commercial Lawyer said was we should give room price.
Again makes it difficult as rouge customers with 40x20 leaflets will be phoning to say how much for a room of carpets.
Usually on such a programme watchdog has a trade expert watching, ie someone from NCCA who would point out what is wrong and suggest a fair price for the job
Also some of us have 4 if not five different cleans
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The big concern for me watching that programme last night was that they had NO representation from the Carpet Cleaning Industry on the programme. the guy watching under cover was a Lawyer ::)
Surely they should have had a member from the body that is supposed to represent professional carpet cleaners ie NCCA.
In any other Watchdog 'sting' operation be it plumbers electricians mechanics the 'professional is from the body that is accredited to that organisation..
I believe this put Carpet Cleaning at a disadvantage, were the NCCA not approached ? if so this only proves the point that a body that speaks for the profession are simply not recognised., this would have been a great opportunity to get a recognised body in front of a mass audience.
As for the programme its self, anybody that is up sold from £9 to £167.00 by a chav, who did not know how to operate to the wand by the way, must be simple in head.
Under questioning by Alwright I thought he handled himself very well , he was clearly from a pressure selling background such as Double Glazing and not carpet cleaning.
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Think it must be on bbc podcast to have another look..
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On iplayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vr84q/Watchdog_04_11_2010/
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Wynne
Have you tried modern L/M cleaning like Texatherm to allow you make an informed opinion rather than slag it off as second rate, which it certainly is not.
T/M operators in Canada and the U S would not be abandoning their machines in favour of the latest O/P machines and chemicals if they failed to deliver a quality service to their clients, which it clearly does.
All builders and tradesmen as well as carpet cleaners have " rogue traders " in their ranks but they still get work.
It's OK Robert, I was being a little tongue in cheek. I use padding myself where appropriate especially commercial were I think you get better looking results and less potential problems. However with the wallys on watchdog they would be better all round if they padded soiled carpets at 8.99 rather than just wand at lightning speed.
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While I do not condone Bait and Switch
I do wonder if the Customers was being charged an unfair price.
£4.99 a metre was quoted for a deep down clean that is the price a lot of Carpet Cleaners Charge
My concern is customers will now think they are being robbed when we quote a genuine £4.99 metre.
What the Commercial Lawyer said was we should give room price.
Again makes it difficult as rouge customers with 40x20 leaflets will be phoning to say how much for a room of carpets.
Usually on such a programme watchdog has a trade expert watching, ie someone from NCCA who would point out what is wrong and suggest a fair price for the job
Also some of us have 4 if not five different cleans
I believe he quoted £4.99 A SQUARE FOOT not a metre.
::) Sorry I meant .49p a sq ft. PLUS the chemicals of course ;D
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I'm pretty sure it was 49p a square foot.
Doesn't matter though as Enterprise have no pricing structure whatsoever. Their "technicians" can charge as much as they like, although the more the better obviously!
I wish they had dedicated more time to the standard of the cleaning and that includes the "deep clean" as they referred to it. This is where an indutry expert should have come into it.
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Wynne
Fair comment :)
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Well guys I must say that was interesting to say the least and I am surprised no one mentioned the lady who went from having her 3 piece cleaned for £30 and in the end paying £500! I mean come on yes they are very tricky and put some pressure on but surely he didn't have her pinned up agains't the wall with a gun to her head ::)
On a lighter note I am off to give my son a bath and as times are hard I can't afford chemicals so instead of using a luxurious product such as Johnsons he will simply be getting a maintanence clean this evening ;D
Onwards and upwards ;)
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How on earth does the owner administer such an opperation.
What I mean is, how does he know what operator has taken what? That chav that measured up and tried to take £167.00 from the old dear. He could have gone back to base and said "No sorry, she chucked me off the job without paying". He could have got her to make out the cheque into his name and banked it without them knowning.
Matt
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i'm guessing she pays the company and the "technician" (rogue) gets paid at the end of the week.
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What concerned me was the attitude of the Lawyer (typical).
He gave the impression that £ 8.99 for two was what people should be expected to pay.
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Hi Guys
These bait and switch companies have been around for many years and you didn't get the impression that any prosecutions were going to happen.
They will probably just change the company name and start again.
It's little more than stealing and one of the worst aspects is that even if the customer pays top money, they still get a rubbish job,
Cheers
Doug
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there was a roofer on 2 weeks ago anyone remember his name or where he was based?
this will be forgotten within 2 weeks. they won't even need to change their names and how big an audience does watchdog have 2-3 million?
i bet it gives them a little hiccup, then it will be back to normal
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This all happens because they get away with it. The trading standards and coppers are too busy going after honest people who are easier meat.
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Doug / Mike,
Sadly, I fear you are right.
Maybe we need to use the approach of...
"You know that company on Watchdog? Well we'll do that full clean & protection PROPERLY and it will cost you X"
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Hi Guys
I don't usually watch Rogue Traders as it generally rubbish and only stayed with it last night because of the CC angle. These programmes could make a difference by involving Trade Associations and Trading standards but they don't because they just want cheap tv.
Cheers
Doug
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The bit I didn't like is when the operative offered a superiour service for 49p per sq ft the Solicitor more or less said that it was far more than was expected to pay, there are loads of cleaners that charge 49p and more for cleaning and it reflects on them!
Shaun
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The big concern for me watching that programme last night was that they had NO representation from the Carpet Cleaning Industry on the programme. the guy watching under cover was a Lawyer ::)
Surely they should have had a member from the body that is supposed to represent professional carpet cleaners ie NCCA.
Agree 100%. Why wasnt Paul Pearce wheeled out to give us some war stories? I wonder what we pay for sometimes.
Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
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The big concern for me watching that programme last night was that they had NO representation from the Carpet Cleaning Industry on the programme. the guy watching under cover was a Lawyer ::)
Surely they should have had a member from the body that is supposed to represent professional carpet cleaners ie NCCA.
Agree 100%. Why wasnt Paul Pearce wheeled out to give us some war stories? I wonder what we pay for sometimes.
Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
Because they have zero clue on how to get in with these media companies. 10 years ago I got a 15 min spot on look north ,with my trailer mounted Dehumidifier, by employing the right PR people
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Missed the programme yesterday, but have already had a good few of my customers commenting on it. We have a guy pretty local to us offering "Any carpet cleaned for £10"
Guess what......very few get him out of the house by only paying him £10!
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there was a roofer on 2 weeks ago anyone remember his name or where he was based?
this will be forgotten within 2 weeks. they won't even need to change their names and how big an audience does watchdog have 2-3 million?
i bet it gives them a little hiccup, then it will be back to normal
Burnley ;D
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I'm surprised there have been replies that basically wanted this type of TV swept under the mat (clever choice of words there ;D).
The clever people who will market this to their advantage, because a benchmark has been set (via TV) on what to expect if it seems such a fantastic deal because there will be a catch.
Use it to your advantage. Of course many of our potential customer won't have seen the programme but all the same throw it into the dialogue, so they will be frightened off phoning another CC'er who gives a lower price.
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Not surprising the chaf never took he's finger off the wand lever ::)
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I mentioned the program today to one of my custys.
She not seen the program but said she got a leaflet offering low prices.
Pleased at what I did to her lounge carpet. Will be back again in12 months I think.
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e was paying his staff 1.5k a wk ;D
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e was paying his staff 1.5k a wk ;D
it wasnt a wage but 50% commission and certain ones who earned 3 grand of work
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How on earth does the owner administer such an opperation.
What I mean is, how does he know what operator has taken what? That chav that measured up and tried to take £167.00 from the old dear. He could have gone back to base and said "No sorry, she chucked me off the job without paying". He could have got her to make out the cheque into his name and banked it without them knowning.
Matt
At Enterprise the technicians get paid at the end of the week. Customer can pay over phone with credit/debit card (via someone back at the office), in cash or by cheque. The technicians also carry receipts that they have to get signed. They are also phoned by someone at the office every 2 hours to check where they are. A technician wouldn't be able to stitch the company up unless the customer was in on it.
They don't have a list of appointments given to them. They start off with one first thing in the morning and then phone in when they finish each job and are then given another job to go to.
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the chaf never took he's finger off the wand lever ::)
Stop talking about me like that. 'fanks mate! ;D
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How on earth does the owner administer such an opperation.
What I mean is, how does he know what operator has taken what? That chav that measured up and tried to take £167.00 from the old dear. He could have gone back to base and said "No sorry, she chucked me off the job without paying". He could have got her to make out the cheque into his name and banked it without them knowning.
Matt
At Enterprise the technicians get paid at the end of the week. Customer can pay over phone with credit/debit card (via someone back at the office), in cash or by cheque. The technicians also carry receipts that they have to get signed. They are also phoned by someone at the office every 2 hours to check where they are. A technician wouldn't be able to stitch the company up unless the customer was in on it.
They don't have a list of appointments given to them. They start off with one first thing in the morning and then phone in when they finish each job and are then given another job to go to.
Ok, so I work for enterprise, for example. I get a call to see a customer in Essex. I manage to convince the customer to go for £400 as a pose to £8.99.
I take the £400 cash or cheque made out to me, thank the customer then leave the house. In the van I make out an invoice for £8.99 and do a signature for the customer. When passing a cash point I take out the £8.99 so they can clear the invoice.
Not only that but I also get 40% relief of the £8.99 I had to withdraw (they give you 40% com on takings)
This gives me a total private taking of £394.61 and the benifit of paying for no vehicle, no tax, no repairs, no fuel, no insurance, no chems, no insurance, no expensive marketing.
Where do I apply?
Explain that one.
Matt
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;D ;D
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I thought the other Con with these companies was you have to buy the equipment
I did phone Homecare once fo a job I thought that was the deal
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I thought the other Con with these companies was you have to buy the equipment
I did phone Homecare once fo a job I thought that was the deal
Think the many like this do it many different ways.
The figures that "could" be earnt quoted are misleading. This company must be VAT registered. So straight away your £8.99 becomes £7.66 and commission paid against that. So £400.00 becomes £340.43 and so on. 40% of £340.43 = £136.18.
They supply van and machine and chems etc...supply could mean "freebies" (i think not) supply could mean hire or buy, therefore you are talking paying out insurance, fuel etc etc. Then because you are commission based are you employed or self employed.....and we all know how fine a line that one is. Do you pay your own tax or do they pay it.
Once you start taking all these things into consideration suddenly your £1500 per week is not looking so good.
A similar set up a few years ago around here, told their office based telesales staff that they were employed, but never paid tax and NI for them. (although deducted it from their wages)
The business closed down and the individuals were left being liable to pay backdated tax and ni contributions. These people who set these things up are clever no doubt, but in the end they will get caught out....or will they?
Let's remember though in order to make a living working for these sort of businesses, you are going to have to be a great salesperson, ruthless and don't give a monkeys >:(
I wouldn't want to do their standard of maint clean for 40% commission of £8.99 netted down to make £3.07 would you ?
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The whole point is, if you tried to put through just the 8.99 whilst working for them all the time, you would be got rid of rather quickly I'm sure.
Maybe when they interview for CC's they have a requirement that you are:
a) Dishonest
b) Greedy
c) Uncaring
d Pushy
Failing that, you dont get the job ::)
Mark
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It has a totally unregulated payment system. The rogues they have running round in vans are not only conning the customer but conning the crook that owns the business. ::)
The biggest problem they have is that the cleaner is dictating the cost and payment method, and payment is made after the job is complete.
Anyone who owns a service business that employs staff understands that the front line workers DO NOT mention or handle cash, this is done by the surveyor or owner. And an official invoice is sent to the customer after work/s is complete.
If you fail to observe the above, you are wide open to fraud from your own workforce, which will be happening in this case.
Matt
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just seen one of there vans in Bracknell..........................business as usual it would seem!
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I was on a course with Paul Pearce a couple of months ago at Alltec and he was saying that he had been approched by Rogue traders who were doing a sting on some dodgy carpet cleaners, I was surpriced not to see him on the program as an expert!
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just seen one of there vans in Bracknell..........................business as usual it would seem!
There are 2 on my street! , see at least 10 every day , they are only round the corner from me .
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Why dont you ask them for a job Jason. Go out and keep the money for yourself, just invoice for £8.99 on every job. Get customer to make cheque to you and withdraw the £8.99 for invoice from cash point. Free van & marketing, you cant go wrong.
Matt
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I thought the other Con with these companies was you have to buy the equipment
I did phone Homecare once fo a job I thought that was the deal
A lot of these type of companies will 'rent' you a machine, ie make a deduction from your earnings.
They also generally make a deduction for 'insurance', 'advertising', 'chemicals', 'admin' etc...etc leaving the operator with about £20-£30 from each job.
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It has a totally unregulated payment system. The rogues they have running round in vans are not only conning the customer but conning the crook that owns the business. ::)
The biggest problem they have is that the cleaner is dictating the cost and payment method, and payment is made after the job is complete.
Anyone who owns a service business that employs staff understands that the front line workers DO NOT mention or handle cash, this is done by the surveyor or owner. And an official invoice is sent to the customer after work/s is complete.
If you fail to observe the above, you are wide open to fraud from your own workforce, which will be happening in this case.
Matt
The technicians probably do rip the owner off. However, the technicians have big targets and if they don't meet them they are out the door.
So...if they pocket too much they end up out of a job so it makes sense to declare a large proportion of their earnings to the boss.