Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james44 on November 02, 2010, 10:57:13 pm
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All of you people who are losing customers do you ever stop to think why you are loosing them?
I may get slated for this but hey am used to it
Well think about it look over previous posts and you will find not-today can you change me to every 6/8 weeks can you come back in the summer,
Well people may think I am mad for wfp upstairs and trad downstairs but think about it?
What has changed the view of todays customers? Well I can tell you wfp that is why? And wfp is the reason you are losing them.
Don`t believe me! Well this was never a problem trad, you never got any of this are you back already can you do it every 6/8 weeks, for years every 2 weeks was the norm, then came the squeegee and sure as hell then came slowly but surely 4 weeks
Now wfp and the norm will slowly but surely become 6/8 weekly and some 12 weekly and one of cleans!
Now I could have been a bit smug and posted and said that I am picking up customers all the time and not losing them well I would of got slated for that,
People come on here and will say why trad bottoms when you can wfp the lot?
Well for me there is 2 reasons I do this,
(1) I keep my customers happy and myself a compact round,
(2) By doing the tops wfp keeps the windows clean for longer and me safe and by doing the bottoms trad means they will get dirty more quickly than the tops
And the customer will not say to me what gets said to a lot of you is can you leave it this time etc: etc
So to me doing everything wfp means you risk losing some of your work, work that you may have had for years
Yes wfp has changed window cleaning but you can limited it`s change my customers don`t have a problem with me wfp the tops and trad bottoms as they understand the risk of using ladders,
Wfp can gain you more work but it can also loose you work, you have to think what is best for you,
If I did every house totally wfp like a lot of people do then no doubt I would loose a few to and I would then have to look for new work,
I have picked up work from other cleaners who have also done them all wfp so why do they come to me? Because the other cleaner has said it`s wfp the lot or nothing,
Crazy as it may seem some customers still see trad as a personel touch,
Now I understand that not all window cleaners can trad so is this why they are telling their customers it`s wfp or nothing is it because they can`t trad?
Or have they been so taken in buy the whole wfp thing that they have forgot about the valued customers they have!
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Im wfp , and picking up new customers all the time, .. i am not losing any, far from it , my customers are well impressed with the shiny new frames and doors,
they dont moan over an odd spot either... instead they say
"its a much better way of cleaning,... and there are no smears when the sun shines"
or
" i like it better , no more smears round the edges"
or,
" This way of cleaning means i dont have to come out and clean , the window cleaners dirt from the sills,"
And they love the extras , facia cleaning, cladding cleaning,.. everything in fact.
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Gazzasp8, don`t turn this into another wfp v trad it is nothing do do with sills or anything like that,
It`s about people losing customers customers it`s not about dirty sills and not all window cleaners left them like that same as not all wfp users leave spots
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Look at the first post, its about wfp....
so is my thread, i am saying i dont agree , on the contrary, i have gained more work since using it.... lost none, ... and i was explaining how my customers preferred it over the old method,.... and i gave my reasons,
just as James gave his reasons for loosing customers.
Topical debate, not wfp v trad.
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dont agree sorry, if they cancel you, your either rubbish, or gone with someone cheaper, if they skip, its either skint, stingy, or still clean,
best thing with wfp, start them on 6-8 weeks, if they skip after that, then they might need replacing with someone better.
btw its losing not loosing! ;)
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dont agree sorry, if they cancel you, your either rubbish, or gone with someone cheaper, if they skip, its either skint, stingy, or still clean,
Not exactly true there can be many reasons customers cancel!
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yes well i would be here all day if i had to list them all! ::)
death, moving, sick, dog not well, building work, do it themselves, etc
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yes well i would be here all day if i had to list them all!
;D
Yep i know but the point i was trying to say in this post is because of wfp and the windows staying cleaner longer, more and more customers will leave it longer than normal and in the near future when wfp is developed futher it will get longer and longer! 8/12 weekly could may well be the norm!
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The overriding reason customers cancel is about money. If we turned up every 4 weeks without charging them a penny we wouldn't get cancelled, it's people being total minges with there money :o
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The overriding reason customers cancel is about money. If we turned up every 4 weeks without charging them a penny we wouldn't get cancelled, it's people being total minges with there money :o
I strongly disagree; it`s got to be "dog not well".
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Disagree there matt!
If wfp had not been invented and all windows where done trad you would not be getting the not today customer! why? wfp has bred this new breed of customer!
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If you said to the not today brigade "dont worry today the cleaning is for free" trust me they would still have them done. It's always about the money.
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James i like your 1st post i think it makes sence
i too trad downs i dont know why but i dont have the balls to pole downs yet i do want to thou.
im only poling the downs where the water forms a sheet (you know the type) but if its self cleaning glass i trad it
Cos it might leave a bead
so ye i trad downs like you and i dont loose much at all they all seem to be happy but then again poling downs (all glass including self cleaning) is something which is my long term plan i just dont know when
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It's always about the money.
Matty it`s not all about money! would you have your windows cleaned if they were still clean?
Even gardeners feel it when we have hot summers customers don`t want their grass cut as it has not grown, same as customers don`t want there clean windows cleaned.
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It's always about the money.
Matty it`s not all about money! would you have your windows cleaned if they were still clean?
He`s saying yes, if it was free. So then it`s about money.
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matt it is about the money but dont you think they get ped of that you aint suffering anymore?
with that ladder how they may have grew up and watched their mothers window cleaner suffer "poor lad here is his £2 or whatever it was.
well now we fly round the house cleaning the ups , they then stare at the glass they cant find anything really wrong with it so then you fly round the bottems too and you just made ? depending where you are in the country say £15 average in what anything from 15 to 30 mins?
its not rocket science they will be ped off and work out you could be on £40 per hour it gets to people i think not that you are earning more then they are but the fact that they feel they can do it themselfs i think james has a point. a point which i was well aware of when i started poling about a year ago.
but if they see you trad a bit its like oh , ok well he is taking his time yes he has completted the work quickly but not stupid quickly
i too feel if you are in and out walk away with all the windows wet i feel it could be hard to keep work
dont get me wrong i would love to be 100% pole but i just cant pole self cleaning downs yet i feel the possible bead when someone is paying so much would embarrass me ;/
but if that bead on self cleaning glass happend upstairs i would say it should come out next time, but im sorry heath and safety bla bla bla. but downstairs i cant say that.
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Get real James, windows and grass are nothing at all alike! After 4 weeks windows are not as clean as the day after they were first cleaned regardless of weather conditions and if offered to have them cleaned for free all customers would have them done hence it is about the wretched money minges! LOL However I am interested in your system of cleaning do you not find it a chew on winding your hose in and then putting your trad gear on pouches, bucket etc and interchanging them all the time? I like the idea but would find putting my pouches on/off all the time and winding in my hose when Id spent them time walking to the job with it a bit of a ballache to say the least??? You must find it worth it though, that's what interested me. Regards Matty
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More walking is involved it takes more time can be horrible and be like 20% on average just depends but u save water hence more hours work maybe
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Get real James, windows and grass are nothing at all alike!
The point is matty customers see it as pointless cleaning (clean) windows as i have said it is not always about the money same as customers feel it pointless cutting grass that has not grown,
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I WFP the lot. I do get the occasional cancellation. I believe those cancellations would still occur if I did WFP top and trad the lower. I do tend to trad front doors most of the time though because if they are still wet when they open them, the water can be dripping onto the hall carpet. Also, if there is a realistic danger of freeze up I might trad ground floor windows above a pathway etc and possibly use rock salt and/or an alcohol based spray to reduce risk.
I reckon that if I tried hard to give my customers everything that I thought they wanted, I would make less money than by working the way I find most convenient. That's why I work in rain too (unless it's really bad). I might get the odd cancellation over it but I lose a lot less time and the business is more profitable over all.
I've no problem with pleasing my custies until it costs me time/money.
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I WFP the lot. I do get the occasional cancellation. I believe those cancellations would still occur if I did WFP top and trad the lower.
Can you explain why you think they would still cancel paul?
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I agree with James on this totally.
When my brother & I started out we were totally WFP, apart from some shopfronts & of course anything inside.
We found we lost the odd custie here & there so asked them why, and got the usual about they preferred it the old way.
As a business we quickly adapted, and on downstairs windows we always blade off........ stopped losing custies straight away.
Yes lots will say what a waste of time, but like James says those extra moments blading off is where the personal touch comes in.... and if you watch the Apprentice that is now our 'unique' or 'added quality' service we provide.
Happy days :)
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Hi James.
some interesting points but that doesn't paint the whole picture as to why people cancel or go to 6/8 weeks.
* yes glass does stay cleaner longer when done by WFP so yes every reason for customers to go 6/8/12 weeks *
However the whole culture and concept of not just window cleaning has changed and the current economic climate is still a major factor and customers are watching their budgets more carefully.
ask yourself this how many cancelled or went to 6/8/12 weeks before the recession happened ? or how many pubs closed down every week before the recession ?
also since the recession started how many new w/cs have started out so yes some customers will cancel for a cheaper w/c simply because there are ones that will do it cheaper to get get a foot hold.
there are also plenty of customers who cancel their WFP w/c for another WFP cleaner and not because of price but quality of cleen as there are still lots of WFP cleaners who try and cut corners and prefer quantity of quality of work,
Ive picked up many a job where the customer has actually paid me more than the previous WFP cleaner simply because their work was awful and one of the main reasons being in and out in 2 mins and charging £15-£20
attitude and personality of operator is also a factor and like in all services your not just selling a service your selling yourself, thats why the newbies who come from a sales/marketing background do so well.
so yes you may feel that trading the bottoms is the answer but for me its providing the best possible service which includes not just the windows and frames but all the cobwebs around each and every window and knowing that when that customer sees the results they like what they see.
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I WFP the lot. I do get the occasional cancellation. I believe those cancellations would still occur if I did WFP top and trad the lower.
Can you explain why you think they would still cancel paul?
In the last couple of years, it's usually been about finance when I've asked.
I do believe it's more economical to carry the loss of a few customers on the way to shaping your business the way you want it. This is my belief for sole traders and small employers anyway. Larger businesses and those who sub out may be able to be more lenient as there is more room to carry messers.
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i dont think blading the bottoms, will stop custys cancelling, if they want to cancel they will cancel
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I have been cleaning windows (off and on) for more than thirty years and I can tell you its always been the same.
Customers are like chickens, you don't try to understand them. They come and go, whats going on inside their head is a mystery.
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In a lot of areas (especially the south) window cleaning is more expensive than it used to be. It`s a more noticeable bill, when you pay £20 for example, so people are more liable to cancel.
When it was juat a few quid a month, every month, people don`t mind paying the same.
I think that`s why some areas still do fortnightly.
More people would have their cars` serviced regularly if cost a fiver, wouldn`t they?
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I WFP the lot. I do get the occasional cancellation. I believe those cancellations would still occur if I did WFP top and trad the lower. I do tend to trad front doors most of the time though because if they are still wet when they open them, the water can be dripping onto the hall carpet. Also, if there is a realistic danger of freeze up I might trad ground floor windows above a pathway etc and possibly use rock salt and/or an alcohol based spray to reduce risk.
I reckon that if I tried hard to give my customers everything that I thought they wanted, I would make less money than by working the way I find most convenient. That's why I work in rain too (unless it's really bad). I might get the odd cancellation over it but I lose a lot less time and the business is more profitable over all.
I've no problem with pleasing my custies until it costs me time/money.
Top post Shiner!
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wc is still classed as a beer money job, no matter what we do with new vans and systems, just will still cancel if they want, custy do it with other bills, forget to pay the gas and ele bill one month and then play catch up, we just notice it more,
if a custy cancelling bothers you, then u dont have enough custys, go knocking for a hour 1 nite, u dont see the big boys on here moaning when they lose a 8-10 job, it use to annoy me when i lost a custy now i dont care, just go out and knock, am at docs to moz so will spend rest of day knocking, to replace the messers that i will get in nov and december,
this business is simple why do people try to over think thinks and complicate it
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Anyone with experience will tell you that back in the last resession customers cancelled due to their personal situation.
If you called after 4 weeks they complained 'is it that time again', for this reason we streched our visit time.
Customers will give you any reason they can rather than say "I can't afford it" it's nothing to do with the method.
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in my opnion if we lose custy becasue of wfp, it is usually because the custy thinks we havent earnt the money so begrudge paying it, looking at what, cancel becasue of wfp it is usually the ones who are in when u clean have nothing else to do all day except moan about life
it only dawned on me the other day after a first clean the previous wc never use to turn up unless phoned, the women moan i never got up there to scrup the frames by hand like the other chap did, she didnt have a prob with the windows as they where clean, it was i never got up there to scrub the frames, so in here eyes i never earnt the money
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i think personally james that its a mixture of the high price charged for the cleaning,the recession and general doom and gloom.
i would say that most custies are really not bothered as long as the windows are clean when im done!!
i have a lot of very compact lower priced work(compared to some of you!)and 4-5 weekly is fine.i am taking on bigger jobs on 6-8 weekly mostly because of the higher price charged.
ive had a few cancel here and there but so what?nothings changed!its the nature of the business we re in.
im 80% WFP/20% TRAD.i do trad some ground floor work in tight spaces or if the windows are badly oxidised or old wooden panes.i also scrim doors mostly as most custies prefer it than dripping wet esp as the colder weather moves in.i have bladed the odd window for a custy so they can see out of the kitchen windows or if i know it might spot.not a problem!
i agree with the guy who posted about attitude to custies and selling yourself etc.makes a difference and you can still add a personal touch without losing too much time!
for those of you who think its a pain to swap from wfp to trad the answers simple really!
keep pouches/cloths/squeegee on ya belt with a bottle so ya dont need a bucket!keep the bucket in the van half full and just give the mop a quick dunk when you need to go back to the van for something and use the bottle if your mop runs dry when your cleaning a property.simple!
ive not got a problem with tradding ground floor windows as long as i dont have to get my pointer out to reach the top of the windows.i dont much though as wfp IS quicker and frames come up better.
you guys who are scared of wfpoling ground floors really dont have much faith in wfp do you?just get on with it!and spend a little extra time scrubbing and rinsing!itll be worth it!
dazmond
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More people would have their cars` serviced regularly if cost a fiver, wouldn`t they?
No. Because there would be no-one to do the servicing.
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self cleaning? never had any..
i think every house is different, i wfp all the tops then its prob 50/50 on the bottoms..
say if the custys in, usually trad the bottoms, (keeping the peace)..
yes wfp keeps the glass cleaner for longer but i use the same water on the bottoms trad,
so they keep clean the same amount of time ;D
but, if the custys out at work say... just wfp the lot!
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I have been cleaning windows (off and on) for more than thirty years and I can tell you its always been the same.
Customers are like chickens, you don't try to understand them. They come and go, whats going on inside their head is a mystery.
;D listen to this man because that my findings, they are just plain mad
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More people would have their cars` serviced regularly if cost a fiver, wouldn`t they?
No. Because there would be no-one to do the servicing.
I said "would". They may not get it done for a fiver but I think more would.
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I had a car i got it serviced whenever it was due!
I had a car and left its service till its oil light came on!
I have customers who have there windows cleaned when they are due!
I dont clean windows for people who 'can you leave them this time'!
Clean wfp tops and bottoms ALL windows doors and garage doors.
Lost 1 customer to date. (had her house repo'd)
Offer every 4 weeks only!
Happy days
Lads get your act together, do you run your business or the customer!!
Never had any customer say can you leave it, or can you do it every 8 weeks!
Why
Dont give them the option.
Can you go into a shop and tell the shop keeper how you are going to buy and pay for there product?????
NO
they tell you!!!!
Run a business
Your family needs feeding every day!!!!
I love windows me!
:) :) :) :)
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James, how do you know other windies are losing cutomers?
You started around the same time as myself. Can i ask, How do you find time to do all your one off cleans? As you have stated there are hundreds out there.
How many do you do a week?
Thanks
Dave
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how do you know other windies are losing cutomers?
From the posts on here!
You started around the same time as myself. Can i ask, How do you find time to do all your one off cleans? As you have stated there are hundreds out there
I fit them in kent
How many do you do a week
At the moment around 25 if it keeps getting to that amount it will be around 1200 over the course of the year
I have 75 regulars that i do plus the one off`s and do insides on weekends but i now have my sister to help out on the internals.
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are you wanting to go full time?
You started off this post with
All you who are losing customers.
Who do you mean?
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are you wanting to go full time?
I am full time!
You started off this post with
All you who are losing customers.
Who do you mean?
I was responding to some of the posts that have appeared on here
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you are full time with 75 ? you are charging well then mate! good on ya.
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Yes 75 regulars a week plus the one off`s and some weekends internals
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Yes 75 regulars a week plus the one off`s and some weekends internals
;D
he thought you meant a month ;)
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I wish it were 75 a month ;D
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internal weekends? sounds painfull!
75 a week is great mate. still dont know how you manage 25 one offs.
keep up the good work