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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dave.e on October 09, 2010, 01:32:06 pm

Title: runing pump off van batt
Post by: dave.e on October 09, 2010, 01:32:06 pm
Hi guys and gals can some one please help me i have been told you can run a water fed pump off the van batt what i need to know is if i was on a est with lets say 15 houses with only moving the van about 3 time in the space off 4 hours would it drain the batt. thanks dave
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on October 09, 2010, 02:24:34 pm
i have heard of people charging leisure batterys via a connection to the alternator, but never heard of this before.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: mlscontractcleaner on October 09, 2010, 02:31:30 pm
I've done this in the past, when I first had the system fitted, but after having to call out the wife with a booster to get the van started at the end of the day :'( I bought another battery and fitted it right next to the pump; much better ;D
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Llaaww on October 09, 2010, 02:35:02 pm
I use a cable to the lighter socket, but only in an emergency. I did have a split charger fitted but something went wrong with that.

I am thinking of getting one of these as a backup pump, though it may take up a bit of space in the van. ;)

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Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: dave.e on October 09, 2010, 02:41:01 pm
thanks for the replies lads but did,t  dave @ st ives run is pumps of the van batt would be nice to see if he still dose it that way and what is thoughts are. he mite be along in a bit hopefully :)
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: landy2 on October 09, 2010, 03:20:55 pm
like it has been said above you could run your pumps of your van battery but it would drain it as a van battery it only desighned to give a large amount of power  for a short time
a leisure battry is designd to give a large amount of power over a long time

doing the above you will always be left with a flat batter


justget  a split charger fitted it will be a lot better and they are cheap
hope that helps
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 09, 2010, 05:21:04 pm
thanks for the replies lads but did,t  dave @ st ives run is pumps of the van batt would be nice to see if he still dose it that way and what is thoughts are. he mite be along in a bit hopefully :)

Yes all 4 vans straight off the van battery, each van has twin set ups and work about 10 hours each every day. Never had a problem in 5 years of wfp.

Why would you have it any other way. Keep things simple, get it wired to your van battery and have an easy life, no charging batteries every night. Finish work, fill up, then forget about everything until you turn your key in the morning
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 09, 2010, 05:23:47 pm
Forget the split charge relay, they aren't needed
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on October 09, 2010, 05:39:12 pm
Same as Dave Morris. Run mine from cig' lighter socket for 6.5 years no problem! ;)

BUT, I would advise an electronic flow controller (digital varistream) & 8mm hose instead of 6mm.

Using a varistream means the pump only cycles at the minimum speed required unlike a bypass system where the pump runs flat out regardless of flow setting!

varistream + 8mm hose pulls very little amps from the battery. ;)
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Blue Frog Systems on October 09, 2010, 05:41:48 pm
What size batterys are in your vans Dave ?

Im thinking of setting my van battery up as an emergency thing. Today i had two jobs to catch up on. Half way through the first job and my lesuire battery died on me, so had to go home  to get the spare to finish off. Now if i had the wires set up i could have just ran off the van for the 1 & 1/2 jobs i had left to do. Would have saved me 30 mins traveling and fuel too
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Lee GLS on October 09, 2010, 06:02:07 pm
Same as Dave Morris. Run mine from cig' lighter socket for 6.5 years no problem! ;)

BUT, I would advise an electronic flow controller (digital varistream) & 8mm hose instead of 6mm.

Using a varistream means the pump only cycles at the minimum speed required unlike a bypass system where the pump runs flat out regardless of flow setting!

varistream + 8mm hose pulls very little amps from the battery. ;)

Do you have to put a higher amp fuse for the cog lighter if you run your pumps from it, or don't the pull that muxh current
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 09, 2010, 06:11:44 pm
Forgot to say, I use varistream controllers.

I don't know the battery size, but have had 6 different vans with no problems.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: dave.e on October 09, 2010, 06:31:00 pm
thanks for the replies lads but did,t  dave @ st ives run is pumps of the van batt would be nice to see if he still dose it that way and what is thoughts are. he mite be along in a bit hopefully :)

Yes all 4 vans straight off the van battery, each van has twin set ups and work about 10 hours each every day. Never had a problem in 5 years of wfp.

Why would you have it any other way. Keep things simple, get it wired to your van battery and have an easy life, no charging batteries every night. Finish work, fill up, then forget about everything until you turn your key in the morning



thanks dave your reply was just what i was after  ;)
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on October 09, 2010, 07:55:39 pm
Same as Dave Morris. Run mine from cig' lighter socket for 6.5 years no problem! ;)

BUT, I would advise an electronic flow controller (digital varistream) & 8mm hose instead of 6mm.

Using a varistream means the pump only cycles at the minimum speed required unlike a bypass system where the pump runs flat out regardless of flow setting!

varistream + 8mm hose pulls very little amps from the battery. ;)

Do you have to put a higher amp fuse for the cog lighter if you run your pumps from it, or don't the pull that muxh current

No higher amp fuse used on mine.

My van battery is only 60Ah.

On my previous van I changed the OE battery when it was 6 years old & replaced it with a cheapo £35 one from partco. Never had any trouble with that one either! :D

Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: David Kent @ KentKleen on October 09, 2010, 09:26:59 pm
here here dave. i run a 2 man set up straight from the van batt. no problems whatsoever. 1000 litres a day from the van batt no problem.. ;)
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: luther1 on October 09, 2010, 10:20:43 pm
Me too. Straight from van battery. Sometimes i don't move the van all day.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Simon Spencer on October 09, 2010, 10:52:33 pm
Run mine straight from van battery, use 600 to 700 litres a day! do little travelling inbetween, no problems so far.

Regards

Simon
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: darren clarke on October 09, 2010, 11:12:05 pm
stupid question,  is it just as straight forward as running leads to poz and neg?
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Simon Spencer on October 09, 2010, 11:33:00 pm
Yes mate!
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on October 09, 2010, 11:33:48 pm
stupid question,  is it just as straight forward as running leads to poz and neg?

I use a 12v cig lighter plug on the end of a cable from pump box.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on October 09, 2010, 11:34:16 pm
I have run off van battery via lighter 12v no problems other than cable in the way.

I have had a solar panel for a while now works well.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: [GQC] Tim on October 10, 2010, 01:06:24 am
Hmmm, I do have a 4040 in the van as well, I'm wondering if by filling it up for a couple of hours, the solenoid would drain the van battery. Not sure.

Quite impressed by your systems longetivity Dave, makes me think to just go that route as well really, much simpler.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: darren clarke on October 10, 2010, 08:03:42 am
what size cable is best to use?
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Sunshine/Cleaning on October 10, 2010, 08:42:34 am
The pump draws at 7amps on full so 10amp wire would be fine. Dont forget to fit a fuse.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 10, 2010, 09:03:30 am
Tim

I don't have an ro in the van with a solenoid, so don't know how your battery will stand up. How many amps does the valve draw ?

All I could suggest is to trial it for a week and keep a plan b back up until you are confident with it
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: gto on October 10, 2010, 09:33:27 am
it would also depend on where you work, if you dont travel very far the van battery wont get a full charge.

so every day you will drain the battery without recharging it properly, especialy with winter coming using the lights, heater more load on the battery.
so for saving £60 on a battery you may get stuck at the side of the road with a dead van
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 10, 2010, 09:50:54 am
Never happened to me !

If it did it wouldn't be a bad trade off. One day needing a jump start against having to recharge a leisure battery every single night, I know what I would choose.

The amp draw of a pump is very low especially with a flow controller, it would take more than emptying 800 litres on one job without moving to flatten your battery.


Have you actually tried it or are you surmising
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on October 10, 2010, 10:57:48 am
Never happened to me !

If it did it wouldn't be a bad trade off. One day needing a jump start against having to recharge a leisure battery every single night, I know what I would choose.
The amp draw of a pump is very low especially with a flow controller, it would take more than emptying 800 litres on one job without moving to flatten your battery.


Have you actually tried it or are you surmising

Same here.

A digital varistream will tell you anyway when the battery is getting low (green light flashing) This will happen to me if I turn the flow up to full just to prime the pump & then continue to run all day on setting 1 or 2! This just goes to show the difference in amps being pulled from the battery between using electronic flow controll or runnung pump on full! ;)
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Londoner on October 10, 2010, 03:00:27 pm
I run everything off the van battery, always have.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: rg1 on October 10, 2010, 05:03:26 pm
Same here. My van was on a 55 plate when I got it so just to be on the safe side, I went and bought a new battery and have had no problems. Also changed the croc clips for a cig lighter adaptor, just plug it in and away you go!
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: ian1972 on October 10, 2010, 06:03:20 pm
I have my leisure battery directly conected to van battery stays topped up never had a problem in 12 month of running or that way
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: chris@c.m.s on October 10, 2010, 07:19:05 pm
I run mine straight from the van battery and I've never had a problem, you only need to run a live cable from the batteries positive terminal, I think mine is about 20 amp rating with an in-line fuse, negative to the pump controller is taken of the van chassis.   
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: [GQC] Tim on October 10, 2010, 08:11:55 pm
Tim

I don't have an ro in the van with a solenoid, so don't know how your battery will stand up. How many amps does the valve draw ?

All I could suggest is to trial it for a week and keep a plan b back up until you are confident with it

David,

I have no idea, it's this one, from purefreedom :

http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/12v-asco-jucomatic-solenoid-valve-p-377.html

Sounds like a plan, I will keep a backup.

Does the negative actually have to go back to the van battery or is ground to chassis enough?

Regards,

@ Vince (Green)

How does running the leisure off the van battery work? Sounds complicated. Does the alternator still charge both, or does the current from the van battery charge the leisure battery?

Thanks all. :)
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Perfect Windows on October 10, 2010, 08:26:58 pm
I have my leisure battery directly conected to van battery stays topped up never had a problem in 12 month of running or that way

The Hiace has two batteries as standard.  There's no messing about with relays or whatever, they are just hooked up to each other.  Seems to work fine.

Vin
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: chris@c.m.s on October 11, 2010, 01:33:35 am


Does the negative actually have to go back to the van battery or is ground to chassis enough?

Oh why do I bother  ::) no bugger reads my posts anyway  ;D ;D
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 11, 2010, 03:19:52 am
I've always had a split charger plus leisure battery myself.  Not tried it any other way.  Personally I prefer the idea of this as although people on here seem to have had no problems running from a van battery, I have heard of it happening.  If working that way, I would only do it if I had a power pack - just in case.  I've had a van battery fail on me before just by leaving sidelights on for half an hour or so (must have been getting old).  I ended up restarting the van by jumpleading from a 35amp trolley battery  :) .
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: [GQC] Tim on October 11, 2010, 05:58:29 pm


Does the negative actually have to go back to the van battery or is ground to chassis enough?

Oh why do I bother  ::) no bugger reads my posts anyway  ;D ;D

Oops sorry!

Did 6 hours of work today, battery still okay, just about to fill up 400l tank, we'll see how it holds up tomorrow. :)
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: chris@c.m.s on October 11, 2010, 06:43:13 pm
No problem it was meant tongue in cheek, I'd had a few cans as well  ;) I'm sure you'll be OK with it as long as your battery is in good shape.   
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on October 11, 2010, 07:10:42 pm
dave why dont you try and run it off a external baterry might be best in the long run mate
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: [GQC] Tim on October 12, 2010, 09:42:05 am
dave why dont you try and run it off a external baterry might be best in the long run mate

He's been using it for 4 years like that.  ???
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Neil kell on October 12, 2010, 12:15:23 pm
Just don't leave your solenoid switch on, that will run the battery down, switch taht off every morning cause if thats left on for a week end or whatever your van will not start Monday morning, Never had an issue with the pump though. Your Primastar, Vauxhall Vivaro or whatever is a good rig.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on October 12, 2010, 06:09:34 pm
he could try an inverter whitch will plug into ciggy socket
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: scud on October 12, 2010, 09:16:08 pm
it would also depend on where you work, if you dont travel very far the van battery wont get a full charge.

so every day you will drain the battery without recharging it properly, especialy with winter coming using the lights, heater more load on the battery.
so for saving £60 on a battery you may get stuck at the side of the road with a dead van

  The battery doesn't run the lights and heater. The battery is there purely for starting the vehicle, all ancillary electrics are powered by the alternator.

  Once started it is possible to disconect the vehicles battery and drive using any powered item as normal.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: [GQC] Tim on October 15, 2010, 05:47:35 pm
So far so good, haven't had any problems yet. Quite pleased.

Ofcourse I removed the leisure battery and wired it all up properly, now the pump isn't working anymore. Must have done something wrong. Perhaps the ground from the varistream isn't good.....

Just don't leave your solenoid switch on, that will run the battery down, switch taht off every morning cause if thats left on for a week end or whatever your van will not start Monday morning, Never had an issue with the pump though. Your Primastar, Vauxhall Vivaro or whatever is a good rig.

Yea thats' what I did once, leisure battery completely drained. Have got a toggle switch on it.


it would also depend on where you work, if you dont travel very far the van battery wont get a full charge.

so every day you will drain the battery without recharging it properly, especialy with winter coming using the lights, heater more load on the battery.
so for saving £60 on a battery you may get stuck at the side of the road with a dead van

  The battery doesn't run the lights and heater. The battery is there purely for starting the vehicle, all ancillary electrics are powered by the alternator.

  Once started it is possible to disconect the vehicles battery and drive using any powered item as normal.

The battery runs all of them, and starts the vehicle (heater is ofcourse from engine coolant). It's just that the alternator keeps the battery charged. Otherwise if the engine would go off, blower, lights etc etc wouldn't work anymore.
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: [GQC] Tim on October 19, 2010, 06:24:26 pm
Still running solid, chuffed to bits, no more messing about with a leisure battery (even though I had it on splitcharger) :D

Thanks Dave!
Title: Re: runing pump off van batt
Post by: Spruce on October 19, 2010, 09:19:50 pm


Does the negative actually have to go back to the van battery or is ground to chassis enough?

Oh why do I bother  ::) no bugger reads my posts anyway  ;D ;D

A good ground to the chassis is fine. Most electrical stuff on your car/van is negative to earth (chassis).