Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: wpclean on October 08, 2010, 11:25:57 pm
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I am finding it hard to explain to a new customer that it would take me three attempts to get their windows clean while charging them xxx pounds !
Usually cleaning trad they gladly hand the money over after being impressed with the end results.
So my question is how do you wfp guys do it ?
I am a wfp convert and need to know ???
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I just explain that the frames are my first priority on the first clean and the glass is usually spot on but may not be. Just explain it like that's just the way it is. If the guy spraying your car said it would take two coats you wouldn't argue and say it should only take one and you were only paying for one.
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just do it right and forget the three clean nonsense,
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Dont tell them any of this 3 cleans nonsense, just tell them that there shouldnt be a problem but there is a chance they may not dry great due to ingress of detergents and if there is a problem give me a call and i will come back and sort it out. but basically scrub the hell out of everything then go back and do the hole house again rinsing well. then leave the above guarantee 9 times out of 10 they will not call you back for a couple of rogue spots, which there shouldnt be really. NO WAY IN HELL I WOULD PAY TO HAVE DIRTY WINDOWS, so we shouldnt expect our customers to.
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just do it right and forget the three clean nonsense,
agreed
even though i agree that it dont need 3 cleans if hes changing over from trad to wfp depending on the size of his round saying it minght take 3 cleans is a good move .
i said to all my custom it can take 3 cleans .
where did i learn that it can take 3 cleans ????????????
on this forum .
with me taking that it could take 3 cleans for good results on board gave me a good start in getting used to wfp and getting the customer used to it .
remember we have all started somewhere and remember what your first clean with wfp was like .
then remember how much better it felt after getting a few cleans out of the way .
dazzmond is a good example after only recently going wfp .
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just do it right and forget the three clean nonsense,
agreed
even though i agree that it dont need 3 cleans if hes changing over from trad to wfp depending on the size of his round saying it minght take 3 cleans is a good move .
i said to all my custom it can take 3 cleans .
where did i learn that it can take 3 cleans ????????????
on this forum .
with me taking that it could take 3 cleans for good results on board gave me a good start in getting used to wfp and getting the customer used to it .
remember we have all started somewhere and remember what your first clean with wfp was like .
then remember how much better it felt after getting a few cleans out of the way .
dazzmond is a good example after only recently going wfp .
he said new customer not a change over customer ;) and even if it was I would expect even less problems with converting from trad to wfp as the windows and frames would be already clean
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i was also told alot of rubbish when i changed to wfp 5 yrs ago, namely...it takes 3 times to get the windows clean.
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poled my windows for first time today and i take back what i said t'other day about easy wfping
I did them over at least an hour and still had spots and runs
cleand all the frames and rinsed rinsed rinsed came back did windows but still runs
i had cleand soffits too so wonder if water had run down render afterwards but every window had something and if it was a custy id expect them not to pay and no way could i spend as long as i did if being paid so changing over must be a total nightmare, i still am 70 % trad im dreading changing the majority of my work
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I am finding it hard to explain to a new customer that it would take me three attempts to get their windows clean while charging them xxx pounds !
Usually cleaning trad they gladly hand the money over after being impressed with the end results.
So my question is how do you wfp guys do it ?
I am a wfp convert and need to know ???
I don't say 3 cleans. I do say that sometimes there may be a few imperfections on the first clean after it dries but that I go around the work twice in order to minimize it.
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ah back on the old THREE CLEAN CON TRICK eh.
you don't ever need to make excuses to customers saying it can take up to 3 cleans to get the windows right if you did the job PROPERLY in the first place and if you don't know ho0w to do it properly then you shouldn't be window cleaning.
so a £50 house could cost up to £150 before you managed to clean the glass ? how hard is a piece of glass to clean ?
if a car cleaner told you it could take up to 3 cleans before your car was right would you still use them ?
the proper ( I was gonna say good but there's nothing good about just doing the job properly ) window cleaners will take however long it takes to get the windows clean on 1st visit and use as much water as needed after all its their job and their reputation.
they will treat 1st cleans as 1st cleans by knowing it usually takes longer 1st time round but by doing it right the first time paves the way for easier cleans in the futrure
yes you will always get problem windows no matter how many times you clean them but you can get them clean with care and attention and if it means an extra rinse and 10 mins more each time then so be it
if a so called window cleaner tried to tell me it could take up to 3 cleans before he got my windows right he wouldn't be doing them at all, I would get a proper window cleaner to do them.
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I just tell the customer to give me a ring if they are not satisfied. Doesn't matter how big a head you have you'll never get 100% results on a first clean even if you use 650 litres on one house.
You normally get an acceptable clean, with care, that most customers accept but if you come back and study every window you'll usually find something wrong. Just do the best you can and don't beat yourself up about it.
WFP can give appalling results on dirty commercial cleans - don't believe all the hype.
In the years I have been cleaning the three cleans rule has been fairly accurate but I rarely tell the customers this.
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I just tell the customer to give me a ring if they are not satisfied. Doesn't matter how big a head you have you'll never get 100% results on a first clean even if you use 650 litres on one house.
You normally get an acceptable clean, with care, that most customers accept but if you come back and study every window you'll usually find something wrong. Just do the best you can and don't beat yourself up about it.
WFP can give appalling results on dirty commercial cleans - don't believe all the hype.
I get customers call me all the time to tell me how pleased they after Ive cleaned their windows 1st time round :D :D :D :D :D
maybe I'm doing something wrong by doing it right :D
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So do I , but they aren't perfect in my eyes. :)
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I just tell the customer to give me a ring if they are not satisfied. Doesn't matter how big a head you have you'll never get 100% results on a first clean even if you use 650 litres on one house.
;)
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just do it right and forget the three clean nonsense,
agreed
even though i agree that it dont need 3 cleans if hes changing over from trad to wfp depending on the size of his round saying it minght take 3 cleans is a good move .
i said to all my custom it can take 3 cleans .
where did i learn that it can take 3 cleans ????????????
on this forum .with me taking that it could take 3 cleans for good results on board gave me a good start in getting used to wfp and getting the customer used to it .
remember we have all started somewhere and remember what your first clean with wfp was like .
then remember how much better it felt after getting a few cleans out of the way .
dazzmond is a good example after only recently going wfp .
Dont believe everything you read on here to be right. Sure people put what they THINK is right but often its either a load of rubbish or times and opinions change.
When I first started wfp in about 2003 most folk on this and other forums considered it ESSENTIAL to keep your brush totaly clean at all times, some even going to the trouble of removing the brush between jobs and putting it in a bucket of water/gg3 mix. (not me, my brushes have always been minging) :) We all know now that that is a waste of time.
The 3 time clean rule is in my opinion another one of the forum myths, Yes I do agree that you are more likely to get problems on the first couple of cleans, but providing the correct steps are taken the job should be to a good enough standard that the average customer would not notice any problems.
Take your time, think about potential problem, and you should end up with a good job first and every time.
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this is one reason i wont go w/f/p , hearing the grief from the customers . my round is but 2 years old,so i have picked up the FICKLE CROWD and the pennypinchers that probably other windies didnt really want. this lot would "Crow" from the rooftops at ANY spots on the glass. All told it would be easier to find another industry to work in than for me to go w/f/pole !
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BFG - you got it spot on mate - first clean requires time and lots of water and usually a second time around
the property to do a final rinse.
occasionally i get a bad result on the odd window, but usually this turns out to be silicone residue or something simular.
i cover myself by telling the custy that such dirty and negleted windows may have a few spots due to the
intensive nature of the clean and to call me if unhappy.
I think 3 cleans is for those new to WFP or just looking to get a quick buck without caring about quality.
or the w/c side for me i notice the 3rd clean is better is as much as i can get round quicker and clean easier as i know the pitfalls of the job and the windows/frames are still virtually clean from the previous visit.
Darran
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this is one reason i wont go w/f/p , hearing the grief from the customers . my round is but 2 years old,so i have picked up the FICKLE CROWD and the pennypinchers that probably other windies didnt really want. this lot would "Crow" from the rooftops at ANY spots on the glass. All told it would be easier to find another industry to work in than for me to go w/f/pole !
You dont KNOW til you try. You might think you do but you dont.
Who runs your business you or them?
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this is one reason i wont go w/f/p , hearing the grief from the customers . my round is but 2 years old,so i have picked up the FICKLE CROWD and the pennypinchers that probably other windies didnt really want. this lot would "Crow" from the rooftops at ANY spots on the glass. All told it would be easier to find another industry to work in than for me to go w/f/pole !
these sound the type of custy who would dump you for some 50p cheaper, they aint worth the hassel
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3 cleans to get the windows right isn't about how long it takes wfp to clean a window,.. but more about how long it will take a newbie to figure out how to work WFP properly!
I do a lot of one off work & first cleans,.. I can honestly say that I never leave a house without checking results, and while I do have to re-clean the occasional pane, I never leave unsatisfied with my work. I also offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee & make a point of telling custies that I'd rather make an extra trip back to re-clean than get a reputation for bad workmanship. I get maybe 1 callback every 2 years,...
If you can't get it right first time, go working with a friendly WFP'er for a couple of days,.. free labour in exchange for knowledge. You can't beat on the job learning.
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I just tell the customer to give me a ring if they are not satisfied. Doesn't matter how big a head you have you'll never get 100% results on a first clean even if you use 650 litres on one house.
You normally get an acceptable clean, with care, that most customers accept but if you come back and study every window you'll usually find something wrong. Just do the best you can and don't beat yourself up about it.
WFP can give appalling results on dirty commercial cleans - don't believe all the hype.
In the years I have been cleaning the three cleans rule has been fairly accurate but I rarely tell the customers this.
So what your saying is that in the 4 weeks between cleans makes all the difference? You couldn't just clean them 3 times worth in one sitting?! Just curious as i'm still fully trad at the moment and am thinking of starting to introduce WFP into some of my work!!
[/glow]
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So do I , but they aren't perfect in my eyes. :)
tou should have gone to specsavers :D
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i've never had the nerve to tell a customer it might take 3 times to get clean. I just spend however long the 1st time and redo anything that hasn't come up.
I scrimmed a £40 job for about 10 months after wfp'ing them 1st, before they dried without spotting.
I'd say it was worth it, but the job didn't last another year because i ended up too quick for the £40.
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^ SNEAKY COFFEE BREAK HALFWAY THROUGH, OR PUT THE PRICE DOWN ACCORDINGLY.
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Really interesting comments, thanks guys.
I love this forum its ace ;D
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do your best with the tops;and dry the bottoms off with micro ;) ;)
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Jack Wallace is on the money.
I remember avoiding top frames; cleaning brushes; the 3 clean "rule"; TDS must be 000. And more.
All myths.
I don't think there are any myths left that I follow but in a couple of years I'll let you know!
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Get it right the first time,it really is so easy,i have had one complaint once and the only reason because she didnt like wfp!
Never get spotts and runs,if you do the job right you get no complaints!
I am finding it hard to explain to a new customer that it would take me three attempts to get their windows clean while charging them xxx pounds !
Usually cleaning trad they gladly hand the money over after being impressed with the end results.
So my question is how do you wfp guys do it ?
I am a wfp convert and need to know ???
-
I am finding it hard to explain to a new customer that it would take me three attempts to get their windows clean while charging them xxx pounds !
Usually cleaning trad they gladly hand the money over after being impressed with the end results.
So my question is how do you wfp guys do it ?
I am a wfp convert and need to know ???
Never have and never will.
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I just tell the customer to give me a ring if they are not satisfied. Doesn't matter how big a head you have you'll never get 100% results on a first clean even if you use 650 litres on one house.
You normally get an acceptable clean, with care, that most customers accept but if you come back and study every window you'll usually find something wrong. Just do the best you can and don't beat yourself up about it.
WFP can give appalling results on dirty commercial cleans - don't believe all the hype.
In the years I have been cleaning the three cleans rule has been fairly accurate but I rarely tell the customers this.
First time every time, maybe your water isn't 000 and your brushes are cheap or your technique is wrong. You of all people dave know how to deliver a good job,are you sure dave?
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Yep I'm sure. Never had a complaint yet but I've never done a perfect first clean either ever.
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shocking.always spot on me with all first cleans. ;) ;) ;)
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;D
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Some of these posts dont seem to make sense ::)
You have a lot saying that it does not take 3 cleans and can been done in one , Then they say that you might have to go over the window again because of spots or needs another clean :o
I am one of the window cleaners that would say 3 cleans to my customers and I will tell you why,
Most times the windows come good on a first clean and when I say first clean I like to go over the window twice ( if you count that as a first clean ;D )
By saying it will come good on a third clean gives me scope if there is a problem window ;)
If you do not say 3 cleans and one of the windows spots then you have to explain to the customer that it will come clean next time and thats if they give you that chance ... If you say 3 cleans then you have covered your back if the window is a problem window
Now I know that there are people that say that they will not leave the house untill it has come clean ::) But thats OK if you have the time
You can clean the windows wait for them to dry then see if one or two that have spotted then clean them again and you need to wait again to see if they dry good this time ::)
OR
you can say that it might take 2 or 3 cleans ;)
Adders
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this guy talks sense ^
there's no way you can wait an hour at every house incase it spots?? ::)
you can usually tell which windows are going to be problems >:(
you can rinse all day, wont help..
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ha ha brilliant window cleaners who cant clean windows :D :D :D :D :D :D
whatever next ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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iv had 1 complaint this yr so went back to clean windows again and guest what it was the insides
so charged them a £10 for me time.
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The only one i have a problem with is a big detached with old painted frames, i cleaned them 4 times wfp and the paint still runs onto the glass, so i now do it trad but when they get the frames repainted i will clean them wfp again!
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simple solution!just blade the bottoms on first cleans if you think they might spot.the tops not to much of a worry imo as its usually the kitchen/lounge windows where theyll noticed the spots.
no wfp window cleaner can claim to get all windows spotless every time.its just not poss due to the nature of wfp
3 cleans and i noticed windows coming up much better.i think wfp is ideal for maintenance cleans.a bit of a pain first clean but ok after a few goes.
dazmond
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3 cleans to get the windows right isn't about how long it takes wfp to clean a window,.. but more about how long it will take a newbie to figure out how to work WFP properly!
I do a lot of one off work & first cleans,.. I can honestly say that I never leave a house without checking results, and while I do have to re-clean the occasional pane, I never leave unsatisfied with my work. I also offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee & make a point of telling custies that I'd rather make an extra trip back to re-clean than get a reputation for bad workmanship. I get maybe 1 callback every 2 years,...
If you can't get it right first time, go working with a friendly WFP'er for a couple of days,.. free labour in exchange for knowledge. You can't beat on the job learning.
Nat, maybe as you claim to get windows right first time (and I'm not doubting you), it would help the less experienced guys have a better understanding if you explained your technique.
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Three cleans is nonsense.
Clean them right first time. I leave a letter explaining that if the windows come up streaky I will come straight back and re-do them free.
Honestly I cannot believe some guys tell customers that their windows will be crap but they still want the money. ::)
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3 cleans to get the windows right isn't about how long it takes wfp to clean a window,.. but more about how long it will take a newbie to figure out how to work WFP properly!
I do a lot of one off work & first cleans,.. I can honestly say that I never leave a house without checking results, and while I do have to re-clean the occasional pane, I never leave unsatisfied with my work. I also offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee & make a point of telling custies that I'd rather make an extra trip back to re-clean than get a reputation for bad workmanship. I get maybe 1 callback every 2 years,...
If you can't get it right first time, go working with a friendly WFP'er for a couple of days,.. free labour in exchange for knowledge. You can't beat on the job learning.
Nat, maybe as you claim to get windows right first time (and I'm not doubting you), it would help the less experienced guys have a better understanding if you explained your technique.
I have a hot system which is defo a huge advantage on first cleans, and I use quite a high flow rate, about 2.5 litres per minute on first cleans,.. I scrub the frames really well first, all round the house (and give the glass a quick wipe) then go back & do the glass properly without touching the frames making sure to rinse loads. By the time you're on the last window the first few will be dry enough that you can see if you're likely to have problems,.. re-clean any that need it. I use Gardiners SL brushes.
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Conclusion is - use a dirty brush as well as use water with a purity level in the PPT (parts per thousand)
Make your own mind up if you want to tell the customers its going to 3 cleans to get her windows clean, the other option is - tell her I could just stay here a good deal longer with my minging brush and fairly pure water and keep on cleaning (kid yourself, I’m taking my time even if that confused look on your face tells a different story)
Third option is common sense, if you don’t think so, or agree - well put your brush in a muddy puddle and then clean your customer’s windows and let your TDS keep rising, until you reach your level of……
While I’m here how do you price a 3 bed semi again? And if the owner is from Scotland and the house is in London do I charge London prices or Scottish prices.
Answers on a post card please, idiots need not reply. :P
(PS I think the 3 clean rule originated from system suppliers to convert the trad cleaner to wfp)
:) :) :)
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simple solution!just blade the bottoms
Dazmond how dare you suggest blading! ;D
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I like the idea of just doing a thorough clean first time, and mentioning if there are any problems you will be straight back to put any problems right.
If you do the groundwork first and show you really care about their custom the rest of the cleans will be easy. ;D
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told my customers about three clean rule and they answered wow at last we gonna get clean windows. ;D
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just do it right and forget the three clean nonsense,
as per usual wise words from stu mac ,no need to read anymore replies