Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 08:52:42 am

Title: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 08:52:42 am
I would be interested to know what you think of the practice of using  friends or family's adresses to boost your presence on google maps.
Its not something i do myself, but i have discussed the practice with the people that do my site and they have suggested that it could be risky as google may penalise those sites at some stage, for misleading the public into thinking that a particular person lives somewhere they dont, i imagine some will say that second or third address is part of my business but with all due respect in most cases that is rubbish ::)
I am also assuming that friends or familys addresses are used, it could be just any address i have no idea how it is done, although i have my own i dont know what google does to ensure the details are correct, the reason i ask is if we all did this then it would surely lead to chaos where would it end, or is it a case of do unto others before they do unto you.
For what its worth i have no intention of doing this but i know others do.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Adam P on October 08, 2010, 12:03:44 pm
i am yet to fully understand google maps. you say use friends etc address but then i too often see the top google map spot given to a random address in the centre of the town when i know for sure they aren't there. i also often will say type in carpet cleaner guidlford and get people from woking, or i type carpet cleaner in farnham as i know i have an address there so will assume this is shown, to then get my address for guildford. not sure if it's worth the bother of having more then one.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Peter White on October 08, 2010, 12:17:10 pm
I think it's unethical, people soon find out where you live when you call them or when you are doing the job and you're having a chat with the customer.  They will then consider you to be dishonest.

If I went out of my way to choose a local business, which a lot of people do, I'd be irritated if it turned out they weren't and they were just pretending to be local to get the job. 
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Warren Aldridge on October 08, 2010, 02:07:30 pm
There was a company on google maps in my area, on looking into it they had about 160 houses registered as the business address. then one day they all disappeared. They must have lost a lot of business.

If Google dont catch you, your competitors will... and once reported you are only doing yourself a disservice.

Best thing to do with Google is keep it white hat and above board.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 06:03:47 pm
I agree with you guys white hat all the way, i think it is short sighted to try and trick people not sure i would report one though  :-X  but i find it irritating that i am playing fair, perhaps i am naive.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Jim_77 on October 08, 2010, 06:50:58 pm
Isn't it just the same as having a phone number with a local area code for a town where you don't live?

I have a local number for an area which is about 12 miles away that I work in.  When asked by my customers about it, I explain it's just on a divert and I use the number for their area.  Nobody has ever called it in to question when I say that although I don't live in the town I probably do half of my work in the area.

You have to live somewhere, people like to call a local number to make sure they aren't getting through to a call centre or someone from miles away.  It isn't dishonest, it just helps gather business.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Geoff Jewkes on October 08, 2010, 06:56:40 pm
Check out how many addresses that competent cleaners have, I can tell you now that they only have one.............a unit in Ellesmere port
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: will_turton on October 08, 2010, 07:17:09 pm
 its unethical and there scum bags, its like pierre video
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Neil Williams on October 08, 2010, 08:00:23 pm
If I went out of my way to choose a local business, which a lot of people do, I'd be irritated if it turned out they weren't and they were just pretending to be local to get the job. 

Same thoughts here.
My area is littered with out of area people advertising. One is from Portsmouth with a domestic property listed just down the road (I presume has a friend who allows him to 'use' that address). The next is from Aldershot way who uses an office address in the town centre (I presume this is some mail address forwarding system) and the worst of the lot apparently has an address actually in the North Hants Hospital  :o Just how does that work???
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 08:11:20 pm
When i look for a tradesman i want to use someone local thats what i use google maps for and what it is designed for, if everyone did it it would have a detrimental affect on the effectiveness of google and render it useless, sorry to be blunt but it is lying to the public in that you are telling them you are the local carpet cleaner when you are not, and in the process taking the genuine local carpet cleaners business.
If we all behaved in this selfish way, it would be chaos and the general public would be poorly served by us supposed professionals.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Geoff Jewkes on October 08, 2010, 08:14:34 pm
http://www.competentcleaners.com/

They say that theyre voted no 1 by good housekeeping etc which is bull
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 08:33:12 pm
I found a local guy on google maps with a google maps address in an area i know he does not live, as you would expect its a fairly affluent area and the picture of the address is a charity shop with a to let sign above, he also has a differerent tel number.
When you google this area i dont appear on google maps but a lot of my customers are in this area because i target it, which cost me a lot of money, more fool me i hear you say
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Warren Aldridge on October 08, 2010, 08:39:52 pm
Isn't it just the same as having a phone number with a local area code for a town where you don't live?

I have a local number for an area which is about 12 miles away that I work in.  When asouked by my customers about it, I explain it's just on a divert and I use the number for their area.  Nobody has ever called it in to question when I say that although I don't live in the town I probably do half of my work in the area.

You have to live somewhere, people like to call a local number to make sure they aren't getting through to a call centre or someone from miles away.  It isn't dishonest, it just helps gather business.

A local number and a google map placement are not the same at all. It may be the same concept to the customer as in you are lying about your location but to the carpet cleaners that are legitimately located in that area its unfair because there are only X amount of spots available

If my business gets bumped to number 2 or out the list in my own neighbourhood because of some crafty character 12 miles away then that's not cricket

The whole point to Google is to give the most accurate and relevant answer to the request because its a free service.

If you want wide areas, use adwords, yell and other pay directories

Anyway I learnt the hard way when I first started my site, Google booted me out totally. Unless you actually typed the URL you would find me anywhere. Since then I've been behaving myself
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Warren Aldridge on October 08, 2010, 08:45:37 pm
I found a local guy on google maps with a google maps address in an area i know he does not live, as you would expect its a fairly affluent area and the picture of the address is a charity shop with a to let sign above, he also has a differerent tel number.
When you google this area i dont appear on google maps but a lot of my customers are in this area because i target it, which cost me a lot of money, more fool me i hear you say

Hi

Do you know who your host is?  i.e are their servers located in the UK
Its probably too late now but changing you localisation to CO.UK will benefit you

Rule of thumb is if the servers are in the US or other than you need the co.uk domain
If they're in the UK you should be okay with .com







Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 09:57:04 pm
The biggest irony is that i would not report them to Google because that would be detrimental to their business, but they are taking customers from me and pushing me down the rankings, i have to find alternative ways of marketing in an area i do not live and this costs me money.  Whatever happened to integrity or am i being old fashioned

Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Glynn on October 08, 2010, 10:10:43 pm
Is this a serious question ?.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Neil Williams on October 08, 2010, 10:24:53 pm
Is this a serious question ?.

I know where James is coming from because I don't think he's been going that many years, and most of us start off thinking it should be an even playing service.
I've been going long enough now to realise you don't have many friends in business and it is everyone for themselves. Having said that I have enough people (carpet cleaners)on my mobile phone who I classify as friends and I wouldn't do the do the dirty on them.

I don't classify people fishing in my pond when their own pond is big enough as friends.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 10:29:56 pm
Glyn what criteria do you use when you employ a tradesman, i do not think i am alone in looking for someone local to me, not someone pretending he lives around the corner obviously i am living in the stone age, i should get in my car in the morning and look for empty shops to place on google maps as being my place of business, the point i was trying to make was if we all behaved as selfishly, then any benefit would be redered nul and void.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: peter maybury on October 08, 2010, 10:43:09 pm
This is something that,  like getting tel no,s is not unethical it is called marketing. For sombody like myself who has 5 std codes within a 6 mile radious of my location. It is not unethical for me to take on other numbers in order to generate more work within the std s  that do not apply to my own std. Simuarly we have mailing addresses in other towns where, in order to generate work in other areas. Do you guys really think that other people have no right to look for work in your locality. I think that that is a little small minded.
Businesses are not restricted to using just one address and this is something that has been about for a long time, it used to be mainly used by p.o. box numbers but obviously niow people are suspicious of p.o. box numbers and like to see a proper address. There are a lot of different ways of getting mailing addresses and there is nothing underhanded or illeagal about it. It is probably a little fascist to think that you own your pond. We live in a free world live and let live.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 08, 2010, 10:43:41 pm
Neil i have been going in carpet cleaning about 16 months and am doing fine but like many new starters my marketing costs are high and this is an irritation and no more.
I leaflet in areas other carpet cleaners live,  i advertise in local papers where local carpet cleaners live some i consider friends, one i do not,but if any of them claimed they were living in the same street as me to gain business that in my view is wrong, the principal is the same, in my view
I hope google catches up with him :-X

I think google maps thing is a step further than area codes it shows a ficticious address claiming to be the business address of the company in question but thats just my opinion, leaflets coming through my door etc thats marketing, i am not saying i am right its just my viewpoint, if i am wrong where does it stop where do you draw the line to get a job, make up a story about the local competition having a criminal record and a danger to the community an exaggeration i know but the point is, is when do you decide that ethics prevent you from lying to get a job.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Geoff Jewkes on October 09, 2010, 09:20:51 am
Check out how many addresses that competent cleaners have, I can tell you now that they only have one.............a unit in Ellesmere port

Hi Geoff, although I have not checked I think that competent cleaners are maybe a franchise currently just in the north west of England, either that or they employ alot of cc's over a very big area  :o. If you look on the website all of the locations listed seem to have local phone numbers, just checked a few myself 01606 Northwich, 01244 Chester, Rhyl 01745, I did a big lounge job the other day in Winsford that the Northwich branch, myself and other cc's had quoted on over the phone.

Kind regards,

Paul 


Not franchise its privately run, I worked there for 5 years and was works manager for the last one, best thing I ever did was LEAVE!  ;D
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on October 09, 2010, 10:42:24 am
To add to the "is it ethical" debate I am aware of a cc who only came into the business from cold within the last 24 months yet the web site claims "we have years of experience"

Marketing speak or just a damn lie?

You make you mind up.

Rog
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: cannon on October 09, 2010, 11:08:12 am
Could that be me Rog??

It certainly isn't a lie, but it is bending the truth a little. I cleaned my first carpet in 2005 working for a spash and dash, but dont class myself as being a profesional cc until more recently when ive started my own business. But i do have experience of cc going back to 2005.

I also claim to have "the latest equipment" well its latest to me.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on October 09, 2010, 11:26:41 am
Cannon

Panic ye not. :)

In any case the comment was not made as a dig even at the person in mind-it was just an observation and I tried to make it as neutral as possible.

Of course, a "guilty" mind............ ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rog
(Hope you see the humour?)
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: cannon on October 09, 2010, 12:03:53 pm
Yeah Rog i knew what you meant by the post, thats why i highlighted a couple of things that i bend the truth with in the name of marketing  :o

Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 09, 2010, 05:47:17 pm
To add to the "is it ethical" debate I am aware of a cc who only came into the business from cold within the last 24 months yet the web site claims "we have years of experience"

Marketing speak or just a damn lie?

You make you mind up.

Rog
[/quote

Rog

As i started this post,and  this person like myself started cold within the last  2 years you could be refering to me, if you are then you have not read my homepage properly,
It says i have "8 years in the cleaning industry and now enjoy carpet cleaning" which  is the  truth and not a "damm lie"
For the past 9 years my wife and i have had 3 contracts with a local estate agents, solicitors office and a block of flats all of which i continue to do, and this helps boost my income.
 
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on October 09, 2010, 07:09:26 pm
James let me reassure you (i've not even looked at your web site, sorry ;D)it is not you and let me reitterate I'm not having a go at the person in question. I'm just making the observation.

incidentally, I don't even know if this cc frequents this forum.

Hope that stops a lot of people worrying.

Rog
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: james roffey on October 09, 2010, 07:35:50 pm
Rog thanks for the reply and clearing that up.
 
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: wynne jones on October 09, 2010, 09:59:52 pm
'All marketers are liars'
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Joe H on October 09, 2010, 10:26:35 pm
Competant Cleaners advertise in Warrington and use a domestic address.
Last summer I was asked to go and clean their suite and carpet at that address.
I thought it was a windup, but went.
Turns out they were fed up with getting mail (probably junk mails) addressed to Competant Cleaners.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Geoff Jewkes on October 09, 2010, 11:29:09 pm
I didnt stay as works manager for long, the job title ` scape goat ` would have been more appropriate...............................Crikey I could tell you some stories!!
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Geoff Jewkes on October 09, 2010, 11:31:36 pm
When I left 5 years ago 60K a year was spent on advertising so you can imagine how many addresses he has  ::)
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: David McNay on December 09, 2016, 11:53:15 am
http://www.competentcleaners.com/

They say that theyre voted no 1 by good housekeeping etc which is bull

Voted Number 1 as part of the Scotchcare Services network isn't bull
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Mike Gwilliam on December 09, 2016, 01:19:32 pm
Interesting thread, the plot thickens  ;D

(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1481289558_giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: DB on December 10, 2016, 10:59:27 am
Your right David...the No 1 reference was referring to the Scotchcare Network as a whole pitted against other Franchises at the time....at least twenty years ago

I still have the article on file.

All this company are doing is bending the facts to fit.... like many other judging by the the posts on here.
Title: Re: Unethical,or just business
Post by: Stoots on December 10, 2016, 09:05:08 pm
Theres one big window cleaning site that has literally dozens of locations on google maps

seems a good way to rank

Afterall whats stopping you form having 2 business locations?