Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on October 02, 2010, 03:50:46 pm
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I have received an email from Alltec offering 6 truckmount for sale a mix of machines and fully fitted out vans one which has only 50 hours on it, i noticed from one of the pictures it has the Joe Polish/ Alltec fasttracker stuff on the side of the van that you pay a fortune for.
I dont remember who it was but i had a conversation with a guy off this forum we were discussing the merits ::) of this marketing that costs a lot and means constant investing sometimes up to truckmount within a couple of years, huge investment in marketing etc.
I was asked how many of these stay the course, i did not know but it was sugested to me that they are bled dry !
It made me think, although i never considered paying someone that kind of money to tell me to leaflet 5000 a month, this advert seems to suggest that theses fastrackers have hit the buffers, i have not contacted Alltec to confirm, perhaps i should to clarify the facts but these are a lot of second hand machines for sale and they look the same as Alltec supply and fit, maybe a good buy for someone thinking of moving up to a truckmount, wish i was ready :'(
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I had the e mail too, very rare do Alltec have used machines for sale, seems kinda odd that all these have come up at once ??? I also found it odd when I looked at the prices £****** + VAT with the possibility of no VAT!!
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The 30 grand nearly new one, is that the same one which was sold by Altec a few months ago as part of a deceased estate?
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I cant be on their mailing list , but i take it these are the ones
http://www.alltec.co.uk/page/1sl45/Truck_Mounted_Machines/USED_Truck_Mounts.html
Andrew
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The 30 grand nearly new one, is that the same one which was sold by Altec a few months ago as part of a deceased estate?
No, it is a different one, that one was differently signed up and is still being used by the purchaser, Mark Pritchard.
Dave.
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Dave thats correct re Mark as i bought his steamway off him.That citroen and truckmount were very impressive indeed.Regards Alan(swindon)
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I was asked how many of these stay the course, i did not know but it was sugested to me that they are bled dry !
It made me think, although i never considered paying someone that kind of money to tell me to leaflet 5000 a month, this advert seems to suggest that theses fastrackers have hit the buffers.
Isn't there a lot of nonsense said about the old Fast Track, and all from those that haven't done it, rumor and hearsay all of it, and not worth the words.
I am an ex Fast Tracker and I can tell anyone who is interested that no one gets bled dry. You pay for the information and marketing tools and the rest is up to the individual. There is no pushy, you must do this or that, you take it as far as you want to. You dont have to do anything it is up to you.
I only used a very small amount of the strategies that I was given, that was my choice, some follow more and to the letter, that's their choice. I am very satisfied with what the fast track did for me, with the little that I used.
Many CCs have hit the buffers in the last couple of years in particular, not only Fast Trackers, however all those that I know have done very well during that same period of time.
Dave.
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Gents the vat is a pain and although the steamway 9100lx looks like a good machine(mine has done 5900 hrs and still does the bizz and this is only 2000 so should last a very long time yet)when you add it up its almost as much as Karl wants for his most excellent pro mount 20 and that has burger all hours on it and as i have stated before is absolutely top notch.Regards Alan(swindon)
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Hi
That 30k set up looks superb, personally i would struggle to finance that.
Dave
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Its virtually the same set up as mine and if I was wanting another one and had the money I wouldn't hesitate. Some people think it is a lot of money for a TM and Van, and it would be if thats all it was, but its much more. You have to look at the WHOLE picture, everything that is included. The van for one thing is fully insulated, then fully Ply Lines and then Fully waterproofed.
Some CCs think I paid over the top for my set up when I paid £46,000. Do they not think, that I shopped around ALL the TM suppliers and compared prices for as near like for like as possible. The big problem was that no other supplier would supply a fitted van to those specifications, I know because I asked them, and when you add on some 23 optional extra's, as are included in this sale, then you have to expect to pay for them, no one would supply them for free!
Top and bottom of it is Alltec offered me the best deal and value for money, beating all the others.
Anyone remotely interested in this set up really needs to see it for real, then compare it to what other suppliers can supply. It not just about a TM and Van but the entire package.
Dave.
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I couldn't afford one, must be mad we're only carpet cleaners after all.
Shaun
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I believe Dave's viewpoint is a very fair assessment.
If you have the business & therefore the turnover as well as the profitability, an investment such as this is a realistic choice.
If on the other hand - you need to finance the majority of such a deal - then you have to question as to whether your business is as yet in that league. Thus it might be advisible to step back from such an investment.
As for being '.....only carpet cleaners after all' - Well, some of us are also into other things as well - such as dry cleaning & 'landlording' it ;) ;)
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For me it is not the price ( I bought a piece of kit for £125k 2 years ago) it is the return on the investment easily achievable, and for that price a piece of operated kit , meaning it has to be staffed to make any money, is just showing too little return for my liking.
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Jason
Return depends on turnover margins. If you have those - then that sort of 'kit' allows you to do levels of business that others can't get a look in on
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ROI !!! you would get married if you wanted that :o
Shaun
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Exactly Shaun , the percentage ROI you can achieve over say a buffer /prowler/5k van compared to 30k all the bells van , does not make sense to my business , though it might to someone.
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Its virtually the same set up as mine and if I was wanting another one and had the money I wouldn't hesitate. Some people think it is a lot of money for a TM and Van, and it would be if thats all it was, but its much more. You have to look at the WHOLE picture, everything that is included. The van for one thing is fully insulated, then fully Ply Lines and then Fully waterproofed.
Some CCs think I paid over the top for my set up when I paid £46,000. Do they not think, that I shopped around ALL the TM suppliers and compared prices for as near like for like as possible. The big problem was that no other supplier would supply a fitted van to those specifications, I know because I asked them, and when you add on some 23 optional extra's, as are included in this sale, then you have to expect to pay for them, no one would supply them for free!
Top and bottom of it is Alltec offered me the best deal and value for money, beating all the others.
Anyone remotely interested in this set up really needs to see it for real, then compare it to what other suppliers can supply. It not just about a TM and Van but the entire package.
Dave.
I am assuming this included a new van, i can understand that the "extras" you always end up needing bump the price considerably, would be interested to know what most of the truckmounters on here who purchased new machines paid and what they have.
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I guess it depends on what you see as ROI? what is an acceptable figure?
Shaun
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........ does not make sense to my business , though it might to someone.
That is the crux of this issue
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I guess it depends on what you see as ROI? what is an acceptable figure?
Shaun
I look for 100% per year on depreciating plant and equipment
So 30k worth of van and equipment would need to earn me £30k in a year ON TOP of what I could earn with simple kit meaning a buffer and small tools worth 3k new. Then there are the extra costs for maintaining and fuelling the above , someone needs to have a serious amount of high paying work to make a true profit out of that machine.
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On Saturday I went on The Referral Marketing Event with a lot of these Fast Track Guys,. Please note I am not a Fastracker.
The evidence is there these guys have in the main built massive companies and get top prices
I did learn that not everything works so Saturday was more about Brainstorming on how to get Referrals and we came up with 8 plans two we developed
The thing is they take action
Yes Fastrackers can Walk on Fire , I did not . I have a bad foot but I do not think I would have taken the risk
Jason
But in Year 2 Your Van will be Capital Cost Free and the year after.
I bet that piece of kit has ten years of life
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10 years of life , then you have a 13 year old van and TM worth nothing ,(one sold for £600 last week) and the maintenance costs from year 5-10 are high , I have seen the books of a major TM supplier and repairs are the best profit centre they have .
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Life is about taking risks, unless you are truly boring with over caution. If you are never prepared to take a chance you will never know. I took a calculated chance, along with several others. As far as I can see, it was a chance well taken.
Since I got my current unit - turnover and profit, up, advertising costs down, reducing to near zero next year.
Dave.
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ive got the piranha marketting manual and the alltec discovery day brochure if any ones interested in making me an offer, ;D must point out its 93 version of piranha and 2003 the alltec one. can't see much changing other than internet stuff though.
go on, like dave said, take a risk.
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Hi
Just to get thngs moving £1.50.
Dave
PS But i'm not paying postage!
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I guess it depends on what you see as ROI? what is an acceptable figure?
Shaun
I look for 100% per year on depreciating plant and equipment
So 30k worth of van and equipment would need to earn me £30k in a year ON TOP of what I could earn with simple kit meaning a buffer and small tools worth 3k new. Then there are the extra costs for maintaining and fuelling the above , someone needs to have a serious amount of high paying work to make a true profit out of that machine.
Jason - judging by the fact that there are a fair few operators around with equivalent as well as more costly set ups - I guess there are those that have the 'serious amount of high paid work' to whom this outlay is well worth it
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Life is about taking risks, unless you are truly boring with over caution. If you are never prepared to take a chance you will never know. I took a calculated chance, along with several others. As far as I can see, it was a chance well taken.
Since I got my current unit - turnover and profit, up, advertising costs down, reducing to near zero next year.
Dave.
Like I said before , I am not risk averse , I bought a concrete plant for 125k plus vat , which was capable of making 40k a week worth of concrete at 20%gp , all I am saying is that the returns are not high enough to warrant 30k on a top spec TM , capable of 5k? a week , when a buffer and a porty are capable of not much less , for far less outlay.
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With all respect, I just cant see how anyone could justify that cost.
I think 2-4k investment is more than enough for a non-scalable business like carpet scrubbing.
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With all respect, I just cant see how anyone could justify that cost.
I think 2-4k investment is more than enough for a non-scalable business like carpet scrubbing.
It is good that people have differing views, and that we all know whats best for our own unique business.
Piranha stuff, I'll go £2.. seeing as mine was pinched by the CC I lent it to.
Dave.
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Unfortuantley a lt of the stuff got released on the net and as I have a Fastrack 2001 anyway and it was not me who stole daves
Has it got the 105 stratergies detaied out with ready to go tempates
If so I bid £5
On the truckmounts there is quite a selection
Dave I know I am boaring but my wife tells me that everyday I used to take risks whic resulted in the lost of ourlovely house in 1990 so now boaring Ian
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yes
105 strategies and 250 (A4) pages long.
yes thats right, with this complete marketting strategy, you could easily add 20k to your takings in first year alone. think of all that money building up in your bank while you go out and play golf.
to give your business the boost it deserves, bid now, you won't regret it. ask some of our satisfied customers.
"hi i'm johnny carpet, and i have no regrets with taking up this marketting stratagy, within 4 hours i'd allready added 10k to my turnover, i now play golf 6 days a week and clean carpets for an hour on sunday and turnover 22k a month with a rug doctor"
see! it must work, johnny says so, so it must be true.
so
grab yourself a bargain today and start choosing yours clubs.
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Hi
Iam not a dedicated carpet cleaner but i think jason has a point here. where is the increase in income between a 30-50 grand truckmount, and an operator with a decent porti and a bonnet system.
If you have huge areas that are high profit i can perhaps see some advantage to tm but i would use our texatherm for this which i think is quicker than even a tm.
I suppose specialist apps like flood damage you would have a distinct advantage but boy would you need some good deals to justify the spend.
cheers
john
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Comparing against a porty, and if you are booked up say 10 days in advance most of the time
and as many are, compared to those who are not, you would save time in a day to do an extra job, say 2 rooms, av ticket price 95 pounds over, times five days times 48 weeks,
equates to nearly an extra 23k per annum, TM paid for.
Not comparing to a buffer as i do very little. No i am not booked that much in advance as i have a contract cleaning side to my business too, but i will be upgrading my tm soon
as it is for ease of use mostly, and time to spend on other parts of business and son
Andrew
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blue line machines are no longer being made in the states, so i wouldnt bother,
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23K TURNOVER , less 5k fuel, 4k to get the extra work , 1k extra chems, 1k extra diesel getting to the jobs, 1k extra fuel for bigger van , 2k extra maintenance a year for tm .
That is just the start, depreciation , extra heating in winter, I just cannot make a case for 3k layout., if I could there would be one on my drive now.
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And that's assuming you get the "average price £95" for 2 rooms.
Nothing near that here.
John
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23K TURNOVER , less 5k fuel, 4k to get the extra work , 1k extra chems, 1k extra diesel getting to the jobs, 1k extra fuel for bigger van , 2k extra maintenance a year for tm .
That is just the start, depreciation , extra heating in winter, I just cannot make a case for 3k layout., if I could there would be one on my drive now.
Jason, I have never spent anywhere near those figures you state. The way I look at is - the cost of a TM set up, is an ongoing business expense, not a case of, pay it off over several years then, be payment free for another few. When the set up is paid off, time to get a new one. If your business is set up for this, then its not a problem as the equipment is paid for out of funds set aside, or from expected turnover.
If from expected turnover, then obviously your business has to be firmly established with excellent regular repeat and referral work, as mine is, after 30 years.
I dont expect to recover the cost in one year like you say you do.
I used porty's for over 20 years and always had the best, they just dont compare with a standard entry TM in terms of speed and job quality, and a standard TM doesn't compare to a top range TM.
Dave.
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I was referring to spending 30k on a TM/van which is 3 yars old , albeit with low usage.
I am planning on a 3 yearold Sprinter 8k, fitted out with insulation etc , a new prowler, 6k which is only 14 k , less than half the alltec offering, which will give me a far better % return than spending 30k.
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23K TURNOVER , less 5k fuel, 4k to get the extra work , 1k extra chems, 1k extra diesel getting to the jobs, 1k extra fuel for bigger van , 2k extra maintenance a year for tm .
That is just the start, depreciation , extra heating in winter, I just cannot make a case for 3k layout., if I could there would be one on my drive now.
Hi Jason, i was using figures from my business,
5K in fuel, it dosnt cost 100 pound to clean 2 extra rooms a day over a week, some run on red diesel
4 k to advertise for extra work, i only spend 1k a year and includes contract cleaning
1k for extra chems is just a little high,
1k in extra diesel, get the logistics right and it wont be that much
2k maintainance, i do most myself, it isnt hard.
extra heating in winter, about same, as i was going against a porty.
Just going off my figures against a porty ( not lm buffing)
Andrew
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I was referring to spending 30k on a TM/van which is 3 yars old , albeit with low usage.
I am planning on a 3 yearold Sprinter 8k, fitted out with insulation etc , a new prowler, 6k which is only 14 k , less than half the alltec offering, which will give me a far better % return than spending 30k.
Yeah, I understand where you are coming from, but it is simply not like for like. Sure you can clean carpets and make a profit using a porty with basic equipment but after many years as an owner operator actually doing all the work every day, you yearn for something better. The big yearning for me among other things, was to get rid of those damn buckets.
I have only ever invested in a new van or machinery when I have been confident that the new item would pay for itself and this has always been the case. With my new set up it was a slow start showing any improvement on T/O as I happened to get it just before rumours of the recession were coming through, however it is now going according to plan.
Dave
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Comparing against a porty, and if you are booked up say 10 days in advance most of the time
and as many are, compared to those who are not, you would save time in a day to do an extra job, say 2 rooms, av ticket price 95 pounds over, times five days times 48 weeks,
equates to nearly an extra 23k per annum, TM paid for.
Hi Andrew
If i had that much work coming through, I would set another operator on little van and porty make money on them rather than spend 30 000 on kit and do it all myself.
cheers
john
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On Saturday I went on The Referral Marketing Event with a lot of these Fast Track Guys,. Please note I am not a Fastracker.
The evidence is there these guys have in the main built massive companies and get top prices
I did learn that not everything works so Saturday was more about Brainstorming on how to get Referrals and we came up with 8 plans two we developed
The thing is they take action
Yes Fastrackers can Walk on Fire , I did not . I have a bad foot but I do not think I would have taken the risk
Jason
But in Year 2 Your Van will be Capital Cost Free and the year after.
I bet that piece of kit has ten years of life
Ian - was Pierre asked why he decided to do false video testimonials for other carpet cleaners and why he got them to do the same for him on Youtube and their websites (which have now been removed)?
Is that what comes of his brainstorming? If so, he can keep that sort of training. For a company to be successful over a long period, it takes more than just making money, it takes honesty, time and hard work. In my opinion, anyone low enough to mislead customers in such a way and with such ease (and with the same smile he has on his 'webinars') needs to go back to the drawing board and rethink their game plan.
Dont be fooled by this - if you want advice on marketing the people who will give you the best advice will do it for free and be only too happy in doing so.
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I'm guessing that Pierre has selected people to do the testimonials because he can control what they say without the umming and arring, it's not new television adverts have been doing it for years, okay it's twisting the truth and we see it as unethical but what isn't?
I don't know the guy, I have said hello to him at Alltec but one word that's it but I like the guy he's a trier, let's be honest have you ever done anything that you may be shouldn't have?
Shaun
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no Shaun, i dont build my business on bull~hit, if you think thats ok good luck to you, i am sure they will oblige you a video testimonial if you need it.
ask yourself though - would you want work done by someone showing you false references which is what they are doing? who you trust them if you found out? would you buy a marketing course off them?
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I don't do unreal testimonials but you can't come on holier than thou everyone tells or has told a small white one.
Shaun
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you are talking about life Shaun, not business and not video testimonials.
And if you do want to do that, you dont then try to tell everyone you know the ultimate marketing strategy and try to sell it on - thats the difference. I am not saying Pierre isnt a 'nice fella', i am saying dont try to sell me marketing based on that basis.
If you agree with them Shaun, maybe you should take the 'honest' out of your web name?? ;D
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If you say that you have done something or even say that you aren't going to do something then you should stick by it, advertising blatant untruths is so risky, I remember someone wanting to buy my RX20 as we spoke I asked the person not mention something said to him to another cleaner and guess what? the other cleaner rang me the next day!
Practising what you preach can also be so risky.
Shaun
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lol, well 'someone' shouldnt have been dishonest in the first place about the purchase price!!!! ::)
funny how a little digging outs the bullshi@@ers
i see now why you condone the false videos!!! doesnt do you any favours Shaun, bullsh#t always catches up on ya
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It was true with the vat and postage, you need to get to your ivory tower or is there another forum for you to moderate or have you run out of them also?
Shaun
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lol, scraping the barrel now Shaun - desperation creeps in
Honest as the day is long is your motto - well others can decide on that one!!! i know better
night night
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I and many others on here have dealt with Shaun for over 10 years , buying and selling various bits, I have always found him to be honest and upfront , he does what he says he will, and has a successful business in cleaning and property off the back of this.
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for a yorkshiremen he isnt bad
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I never did find the video testimonials refereed to
Yes I did mention it to Pierre prior to the event
This is new media that everybody is jumping onto.
Yes on Saturday
People did do a testimonial on his Flip Camera on what a Good Day it was.
I did not do one , but that does not mean I did not enjoy the day.
It has set me thinking Also taught me how to hype myself up and increase the pressure on the throttle
In the end I would say it was just as much about Personal Coaching by Steve as marketing
However the choice was choose to attend or not no pressure
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Everyone knows that in TV adverts they don't use real people, in real situations, no matter how much they try to make it seem authentic. They use actors.
Pierre is doing the same, using actors, albeit fellow CCs.
It may not be exactly truthful, but very little marketing is. They always bull it up.
Look at the number of CCs who use library, or someone elses, before and after photo's on their websites.
You may not like it but you can't stop others taking advantage of it.
Dave.
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to compare Pierre's videos to tv adverts as justification for them is ridiculous, when ever you are watching an advert on the Tv you know it is an advert ( if there is any doubt then they have to write at the beginning THIS IS A PAID FOR ADVERTISMENT) when people watched the videos on his website they thought they were real customers.
to quote the advertising standards authority ASA which is the government body to control advertising......
The Advertising Codes contain wide-ranging rules designed to ensure that advertising (1) does not mislead, harm or offend. Ads must also be socially responsible and prepared (2) in line with the principles of fair competition
for the people defending Pierre using false testimonials I have highlighted in red 2 points.
Do they belief his use of these false testimonials don't:
1) Mislead the potential customer watching the video .
2) are they fair to his competition who don't resort to these underhand method to promote themselves?
but although I don't agree with his methods I must say I have done something similar in the past, so have most of us ;) in fairness it does no real harm to the customer.
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I'm not defending Pierre, I would not use the same tactics myself, but using someone elses photo's on your website is misleading too, and just as bad, as people think they are examples of your work, when they are not.
Dave.