Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ian101 on October 01, 2010, 04:16:14 pm
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The following advert has just appeared on http://www.windowcleaningroundforsale.co.uk
NEW ROUND FOR SALE
Region : South East England
Area : Buckinghamshire
Type : Domestic
Price : £100,000
Monthly average : £7,500
Established : 10 years
Comments : Excellent work with good prices. Massive room for expansion. Comes with 4 yr old Nissan Primastar, 650 ltr purified water system ,ladders and all equipment. Ready made lucrative business!
Please go to our website for more details
Think I need the euromillions tonight to buy this ;D
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Laugh, having a.
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and if it gets it who will be laughing???
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£100k...come off it.
Im seriously thinking of selling up with these evaluations, i could have next couple of years off and some
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there was a round of simalar value that was staff run theat went for a simalar amount about two years ago up north.
too just right off such amounts is ridiculous without looking at the company properly.
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Thats 13 times the takings ???
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and if it gets it who will be laughing???
theres more chance of knitting fog
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The following advert has just appeared on http://www.windowcleaningroundforsale.co.uk
NEW ROUND FOR SALE
Region : South East England
Area : Buckinghamshire
Type : Domestic
Price : £100,000
Monthly average : £7,500
Established : 10 years
Comments : Excellent work with good prices. Massive room for expansion. Comes with 4 yr old Nissan Primastar, 650 ltr purified water system ,ladders and all equipment. Ready made lucrative business!
Please go to our website for more details
Think I need the euromillions tonight to buy this ;D
Well let's be really generous and price the van + system + other kit at £15k.
That's £85k of work. That's about 111/2x monthly turnover for a well established round.
Presumably that would be two guys flat out if the work is well priced with perhaps a bit of "spare" work (or perhaps not if all the work is very well priced).
I suppose if someone already has money behind them and puts two good guys in the van it could be done but it does sound a bit on the high side.
I'm a person who believes that well established, decent priced rounds are worth a lot more than the current 2 - 4x monthly turnover they often fetch. Although a quality round may be worth nearly a year's turnover in extreme cases, I reckon they will have trouble getting it.
Hard to say really. If an non cleaning (or minimal cleaning) entrepeneur bought it he could run the business as it stands for £75k a year maybe so could break even after four years. That would be two fairly decent cleaners' wages, van + insurances, equipment renewals, plus someone seeking new work part-time.
Of course I've never done this so am only having a stab at the numbers but I bet I'm not out by a million miles. It would probably be advisable for the entrepeneur to have a small van handy for certain occasions which would entail more outlay.
It's the sort of thing I might have a pop at if I had a spare £100k (though I would try to negotiate some way on price). Perhaps a downward negotiation on price could cover the purchase of a part-time van that is used for private use the rest of the time.
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If I had 100k to invest, NO FRIGGIN' WAY would it be in window cleaning! ;)
Much, much safer returns out there!
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Can't find many faults with what you ssy paul.This is my take on the same figures
Turnover 80k wages `(one man) 25k exes motor 7k (invluding depreciation) exes other 4k.VAT 8K
Assuming you work yourself wages 25k, the net annual profit is 11k before tax.
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Can't find many faults with what you ssy paul.This id my take on he same figures
Turnover 80k wages `(one man) 25k exes motor 7k (invluding depreciation) exes other 4k
Assuming you work yourself wages 25k, the net annual profit is 19k before tax
Just looked again and realise I got some sums wrong there. I was thinking £100k turnover. Even at £90k turnover it could work though because I was being intentionally generous with the expenses.
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Im sorry, its just not worth £100k of anyones money. Fair does if he gets it...when pigs fly
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What if..........
The work can be done by 2 men in a week or 2, it might be worth it then? If it takes 2 men 7 days a week for a month it aint worth it.
Its really like buying a lada and a rolls royce, both get you from A-B, one costs a hell of a lot more and gets you there in style and comfort, the other one may or may not get you there and you will have a sore Arse! a bad back (from pushing)
If 1 man can earn 100 pounds a day - then the business isn't worth as much as one that takes 1 man 1 day to earn a grand.
Quite simple really. 8)
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When I buy it I will let you all know how long it takes me to clean it ;)
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Would be nice, but £7500 in 2 weeks?
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Im sorry, its just not worth £100k of anyones money. Fair does if he gets it...when pigs fly
i bet you like to be in the same pistion with your round if you come to sell,
cant blame him, ;D
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Whats up with you people, i just demonstrated the profit is 11k.
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many doubters many un realistic and single minded people, but if i had a 100k to through about i rekon you ould get with the right work 30k profit out of this has it stands.!
Maybe your 55 and wanting to make your money work for you after say 3 years making 30k profit a year for do little(hopefully0 make sense to me
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When i was employed 2 people were doing £2000 in 4 days and yes i no thats £500 a day we worked 10hr days and used 1000lt wfp's.
we did that 51weeks a year so it is possable
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Ronnie, i can see a wage of 36k, I can't see any profit.
Rm that agrees with the figure 2k a week by two men, that was the assumption.BUT you do have to take the two mens wages off, plus motor, plus other exes, plus vat before you arrive at a profit.
I bet the two men you mention were on a good wage.
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no 30k profit, two men could easily do that so you have two members of staff.
you very little just sheduling which window cleaner pro can do, you take a small wage and the rest in divedens
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pointless all pointless..... if your not going to buy it what is everyone bickering about???????????? >:(
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well said
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Whats up with you people, i just demonstrated the profit is 11k.
Not a good return for a 100k RISK!! domestic round with no contracts?
Would you HONESTLY risk 100k of your childs inheritance ;D for only 11k return IF all goes to plan?
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its wfp ,so im out ;)
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You Know the problem with window cleaning work domestic or commercial it has been undervalued for years 25 years ago i could not give work away
Tony you say domestic work would be a risk well i would rather take a punt to have quality domestic than commercial anyday and i have a lot of commercial
The work is only worth what someone wants to pay and thats me personally i have sold work for 10 cleans and also bought for large amounts and it has been the best investment i have ever made
Regards Tony
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there was a round of simalar value that was staff run theat went for a simalar amount about two years ago up north.
too just right off such amounts is ridiculous without looking at the company properly.
Unless ALL the customers are on 12 month contracts with the window cleaning firm, the seller would be lucky to get half that even with a van!
you wouldn't get a bank loan for it thats for sure, if it was all commercial tied into contracts that another ball game.
Matt
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there was a round of simalar value that was staff run theat went for a simalar amount about two years ago up north.
too just right off such amounts is ridiculous without looking at the company properly.
Unless ALL the customers are on 12 month contracts with the window cleaning firm, the seller would be lucky to get half that even with a van!
you wouldn't get a bank loan for it thats for sure, if it was all commercial tied into contracts that another ball game.
Matt
this is so un true its real i know what isaid in my post to be true and there were no contracts in place!
look at businesses for sale i regular see cafe for sale for near to there turnover along with other businesses do they get there regulars to sign a contract to say you must have a bacon and egg on toast 5 days a week????
so many experts without real experience, how many have actually sold a business with turnover 90k or more actually how many have a business turning over 90k or more????
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ewan we finally agree with each other ;D
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I'm more concerned about my current & future business & what it generates while I own it. Neither me nor thee will change the opinion of what window cleaning businesses are worth! Why worry about it. As said, it's only worth what someone will pay for it, no buyer- worthless. Work your bollox off, have a huge turnover etc. it's still a "window cleaning business" which will probably be viewed differently to other businesses, especially by someone on the outside of the industry. ;)
I think my house is worth 500k, unfortunately, no one else shares my opinion. ::)
BUT, good luck to the guy who's selling it. ;)
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explain why its different then window pro, support your post
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This is turning into a habit Ronnie, you’re the 2nd one this week winproclean was the other lucky one.
I find this a shocking read, how many people posting on this thread have talked about building something of value, or did I assume the value part.
My advice is if you’re going to spend the next 5-10 or 15years or more window cleaning and it’s going to be worth nothing at the end of those years, make sure you at least fully understand pricing!
This is terrible Ewan.
I agree with you too ;D
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Hi guys, I'm new to the forum.
From my 14 years experience in window cleaning your operating profit should be 25-30% if you are doing it right.
I would say 100k is not to far out!
Regards
Simon
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explain why its different then window pro, support your post
I don't have to ronnie, just read this thread. Proof even from within the industry! ;)
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OMG so cleanitup is the industry ::)
how many of the people that believe its not worth it have ant experience with selling a company of this size???
you have nothing to back up what you say, but i dont mind people under valuing there business has gives people like me the opertunity to get a bargain ;)
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OMG so cleanitup is the industry ::)
how many of the people that believe its not worth it have ant experience with selling a company of this size???
you have nothing to back up what you say, but i dont mind people under valuing there business has gives people like me the opertunity to get a bargain ;)
Why haven't you bought it ronnie? why don't you buy every round for sale if they are such good value?
You've just a chip on your shoulder 'cos you've built a business up that's not worth as much as you would like it to be. That's the way it is buddy. "a window cleaning business" sell up & retire? you can't, why? cos your business is worth sod all in reality! ;D
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great response
again no substance behind your theory.
i have a BUSINESS that brings me in a good profit for doing very little i would say its got great value to me and to many others if i was to sell.
some one could walk into my business and change nothing and make a profit.
i know a company that was sold for simalar value so i know its possible, you keep doubting and when your to old sell your round for 1x a clean, i wont be believe me or not.
i see cafe garages restaurants ect being sold for simalar and none have contracts so please explain your theory...............ill bet you cant and youll come up with another nothing remark that clearly shows the chip lies soley on your shoulder
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great response
again no substance behind your theory.
i have a BUSINESS that brings me in a good profit for doing very little i would say its got great value to me and to many others if i was to sell.
some one could walk into my business and change nothing and make a profit.
i know a company that was sold for simalar value so i know its possible, you keep doubting and when your to old sell your round for 1x a clean, i wont be believe me or not.
i see cafe garages restaurants ect being sold for simalar and none have contracts so please explain your theory...............ill bet you cant and youll come up with another nothing remark that clearly shows the chip lies soley on your shoulder
Ronald ::) it's a "window cleaning business" get over it mate, you'll kill yourself! ;D It doesn't matter what you've seen in the past, it doesn't matter what or who sold what for. Put it up for sale & you'll discover what I mean! ;)
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When I come to sell my business, I'll get what someone is prepared to pay for it Ronnie. It certainly will be nothing near 100k & I can live with that.
I'm more bothered with getting my money out of it now & not it's sale value! :-*
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ok master iv been well and truely been told yawn yawn yawn
nothing to support your rubbish so untill you do and are able to put me in my place i wont be wasting me breath, has all i an see is you are a "think you know" and not a "actually knows"
im guessing you also have no experience of selling or ruinning a business of this nature also
keep dreaming ::)
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ok master iv been well and truely been told yawn yawn yawn
nothing to support your rubbish so untill you do and are able to put me in my place i wont be wasting me breath, has all i an see is you are a "think you know" and not a "actually knows"
im guessing you also have no experience of selling or ruinning a business of this nature also
keep dreaming ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
That's not a chip mate, it's a boulder! :D
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the only way it would be sellable at that price (even if it was worth it)would be to accept weekly payments. but the idea of buying massive amounts of work isnt for me i feel proud that i build mine up my self, although i have bought some work which was cheap but very established.
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http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/4531744.Dragon___s_Den_invests_in_window_cleaner/
read this mt bannityne invested 100k for 35% of a business with 370k turnover and his prices are poor, yes he was looking at the growth of the business as well but this shows what a business is worth more than some one on here stating its not worth it.
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i would want to know how many men and vehicles it was taking to service the round, how long the round had been established was their priceing competitive with other local cleaners and finally what is the yearly net profit if you got these figures then you could give a proper valuation.
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:)you lot are always saying you have big money lol hes just had a look on cleanitup where window cleaner are on super big money ;D
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http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/4531744.Dragon___s_Den_invests_in_window_cleaner/
read this mt bannityne invested 100k for 35% of a business with 370k turnover and his prices are poor, yes he was looking at the growth of the business as well but this shows what a business is worth more than some one on here stating its not worth it.
Comparing that with this thread shows how naive you are Ronaldo! ;D
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I don't agree with you ronnie, and ewan is smoking waccy baccy again.
I agree not many of us have a t/o of 90k, but most of us know that this is pretty full on even for two men, so reasonable wages would be required.90 k is also over the vat limit.Even flat rate knocks 9k off this.
The mostly likely outcome is that you would have to work it yourself, on a very good wage, with one helper on quite a good wage.
You will be working your tates off for about 45k.The problem with that is that lots do that already as a solo with a far lower turnover.Any newby wouldn't live with this pressure and screw the business in six months, and anyone experienced wouldn't want to spend two years salary just to be able to work like a slave to get it back.tHere is a good wage there but not much profit.
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well if the work is right i can assure you 90k an be done with two men one van easy and i mean with petential for them to do more.
so this can be done with the right work making 30k profit for doing next to nothing, i know from experience so i feel i am able to say this is true.
window pro??? still cant answer my question just stupid comments, grow up.
maybe your a under achiever, but if you feel your right prove me wrong, i bet you cant.cccc
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what about vat as well
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I don't agree with you ronnie, and ewan is smoking waccy baccy again.
I agree not many of us have a t/o of 90k, but most of us know that this is pretty full on even for two men, so reasonable wages would be required.90 k is also over the vat limit.Even flat rate knocks 9k off this.
The mostly likely outcome is that you would have to work it yourself, on a very good wage, with one helper on quite a good wage.
You will be working your tates off for about 45k.The problem with that is that lots do that already as a solo with a far lower turnover.Any newby wouldn't live with this pressure and screw the business in six months, and anyone experienced wouldn't want to spend two years salary just to be able to work like a slave to get it back.tHere is a good wage there but not much profit.
Reading this is typical of somebody who doesn’t know how (or why) to price.
You have to remember this is a forum with window cleaners asking other window cleaners how much to charge for a semi detached house and getting 20 different answers.
Now how much is that £100k asking price business worth, slumpbuster?
ITS WORTH WHAT EVER SOME1 WILL PAY FOR IT
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Well i've made my mind up......where's the guys phone number i'll buy it off him
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What's it worth Ewan?
Bannatyne is buying businesses at three times earnings.Don't confuse earnings (profit) with wages.
If ronnie is right 30k times three is 90k.If i am right three times 11k is 33k.
My lower value would probably have to be plus assets.
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So what is it worth then Ewan? Your the business minded guru on here. I look to you for the answer to that particular conundrum.
Fire away!
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slumps earnings and profit are different, you could be taking a wage and the profit ould be 30k after this.
if you can only get 11k out of a 90k business your doing something wrong, you should be looking at 30% profit or there abouts.
90k turnover
32000k wages
1750 fuel
3400 employees ins
500 pub ins
500 van ins
800 vehicccle main
10500 vat flat rate
1000 misc items
300 phone
600 accountant
=50350
leaving just short of 40k!!!!!!!
now this is rough but i would say if the work was good then the lads ould do 400 a day + vact so thats
this would mean they ould do 122200 including vat so still sope and also overs holidays!!
this would also be almost self run apart from sheding work ect.
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In that case Im surprised you're still participating in the thread, I mean how long is a piece of string?
As you are obviously still participating, Id therefore suggest for the thread to continue to be constructive you need to assume the rounds value as being reasonably accurate according to what the guy is selling it for. If you were to discuss directly with the chap selling the rounds value and found this to be an inaccurate assessment you could bring that information to the table, until that time its probably best to assume its worth is 100K
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I can more or less agree with ronnies figures, and also add that he has far more real life experience than me.
400 a day isn't an issue.
32k pa for two chaps to achieve this is. I believe one man would have to be on 25k and the other 15k. this would be 40k, raising ronnies exes to 58k
the profit on 90k would be 32k, and if the turnover was 0nly 80k as stated earlier the profit would be 22k, and this would still entail a lot of admin and not be completely self contained.
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can i just add that this bee in my bonnet, what we are arguing about, is what is stopping me expanding.
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I can more or less agree with ronnies figures, and also add that he has far more real life experience than me.
400 a day isn't an issue.
32k pa for two chaps to achieve this is.
Thinking the same thing pretty much. I wouldnt want to insult anyone by offering to pay them £60 a day BEFORE tax and expect them to work all hours/weathers and have a consistent level of production assuming the work is well priced.
Those guys would be taking home £45 a day. Thats not good.
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you do not need to pay them 25k A YEAR its way too much managers of 15 people dont get that half the timce!!!!
ci know these figuers are right has there from mcy experience,c and 400 a day is easy with the right work
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managers of 15 people dont get that half the timce!!!!
http://www.jobserve.us/Office-Manager-Newport-Permanent-WBD8E21B5DD1D930D.jsjob?&r=BE724FC0D1CB1530
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you do not need to pay them 25k A YEAR its way too much managers of 15 people dont get that half the timce!!!!
ci know these figuers are right has there from mcy experience,c and 400 a day is easy with the right work
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I think the real point of this thread is why so many go out there way to undervalue there own achievement.
This window cleaner wants to sell his business for a £100K, thats great
How many are going to do the same? And if you’re not going to sell your business for a reasonable amount, why not?
Well for starters, my own business is currently based on one man working fairly hard. Although my pricing in recent years would turn a profit if carried out by an employee, some of my older pricing is more about decent wages. It dates from before I acquired knowledge about WFP.
Secondly, a chunk of my work is subcontracted from various contractors. Obviously this does not belong to me so could not reasonably form part of a business valuation. This situation has occurred in the main due to me needing cashflow. That was (and sometimes still is) more important than going out there and getting my own work. As I have steadily reduced (and continue to reduce) my level of indebtedness, I gradually intend to wean myself off the subcontracted work. This cannot happen all at once because it would leave me short of money and work.
At the moment it might be possible to get as much as £25k if I sold on everything but I would be pushing it to even get that much.
I'm not going to work out exact figures but under a reasonable charging structure (not some of the rubbish rates I see quoted), the work I do that actually belongs to me could fetch say £15k. The van plus delivery unit (incl. resin bottle) might fetch another £5k. The assorted tools/poles/static unit/RO/trolley (when mended/backpack etc - perhaps £1.5k - £2k. That makes £22k. The fact that there is a reasonably priced rented unit that these things are in (including a plumbed in static unit) saves someone the hassle of sourcing such a place (and believe me they would struggle to find one at this price) is probably worth something too. Also, I could provide the contacts for the subbie work which would be worth a bit.
If someone were prepared to work reasonably hard, they could go in and make a good wage for themself pretty much from the off. Yes the round would need to be learnt as would using WFP. So maybe the first couple of months would see them going a bit slower. They would certainly make their entire outlay back within a year and if they didn't want to do the subbie work, they would have a decent bit of spare time to seek more work (or just relax).
There is a good base to build on. Like most businesses it is a work in progress.
I've deliberately been vague because, althougfh I run a straight business, my income is between me, my accountant, and HMRC. It is not the business of anyone else unless I were to ever sell up.