Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mark311069 on September 28, 2010, 07:46:11 pm
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Hi all, ive been trying out a new guy for the last few weeks, and as stated hes 55 years old and while hes great with the custies, iam finding its hard to pick jobs for him, when i send him out on his own, like he cant climb over gates, and ladders arnt his strong point, and he seems knackard by 2pm. and (the important thing) hes not making me any money as the amount of work he can do is only enough to just about pay him.
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its down to the individual, my old man restarted a round at the age of 55 and went on to build a successful business, so it is not to old. but my dad wasn't new to it.
I had a lad of 17 who was the exact same, exhausted by 2pm, it took him a few months to get up to speed.
does he know the value of the work he is doing? maybe he loses interest when he knows his wages are covered
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Yes 55 is way too old. :)
I am 47 and knackered so dread to think what i will be like in 8 years ha ha ;D
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wimps
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You not retired yet Dai? You'll be getting a letter from the Queen soon! ;)
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what a load of rubbish, am 51 and knackered by 12pm ;D
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I use a guy as a subbie for window & carpet cleaning and he's 59 and proberley fitter than my 4 other staff!!! ;D
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my old man could put some of the lads to shame when he hit 70 ;)
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You have to be hard and make business decisions. At 55 the positives are may or may not have good people skills, may be far more comitted to the job, may well have more common sense.
Disadvantages, may not be fit, may have personal problems with past wives or offspring, may be alcoholic, may go sick big time (although in my experience far more positive in all respects than youngsters)
As with all employees, if it starts to go wrong on a 3 month trial IN ANY WAY get rid. (Don't forget to give them the terms and a contract in writing)
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give him a fair chance to prove himself, if its not working let him go or you will run the risk of repeating the cycle next time you take some one on.
if he is that good with custies maybe get him canvassing and offer him 2X whatever he picks up
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Hi
I think the older you get the higher the odds become against you- that's the reality. One of my customers is 55 and still works for British Gas digging up the road for gas leaks. Out performs the 2 youngsters working with him. But he's the exception.
I am 58 and was fine until I had a prostrate op last year - only working on half steam now and its a real struggle. I doesn't seem to get better with time either. Also have high blood pressure and still haven't found a tablet that works for me. Would I make my boss money window cleaning? Doubt it.
One of my customers had a prostate op 3 years ago, and has now taken early retirement as he could no longer hack it.
How your health holds up is what it's all about. I am a little overweight, but don't drink or smoke. Can I see myself working for the next 10 years WFP? Doubt it, but I have no choice but to carry on. There's no end in sight. Please don't get me wrong, I enjoy being out in good weather, talking to customers and doing a good job is very personally rewarding, but poor health can be a real downer.
This is why you take someone on in a trail basis for 3 to 6 months, to see how he performs. Older guys tend to be more reliable, but younger guys have the stamina as has been said on previous posts.
Spruce
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give the guy a chance. at his age yeah it's gonnabe that bit harder but he's probably trying and knows how hard it is to get a job at his age. sometimes things take time.
would you like someone to take a chanc eon you at 55? i know i would
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Cant climb over gates?.... gets tired ?
this guy is 55 not 75...
he is simply unfit and has no enthusiasm.
i know lots of guys at that age who can still do everything they did as a 35 year old.
This one sounds unfit?
is he overweight?
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Interesting thread. I am going through some of these issues too, so please keep these observations going.
Might help you at some point spruce
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Problem is we need people (the right people ) to clean windows. Can't use robots, can't find the right people. All industries have the same problem.
Talk what figures you like for sales figures, but if you haven't got the right people it's fantasy. (And costly!)
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i think the perfect age for this job is 42, best of both worlds ;D
p.s give the guy a break and see how it goes.
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Hi Slumps
Agree - this is a good thread.
Yes, you are not as agile is you were when you were younger. I cant climb over gates now, but then my customers won't be happy if I did.
I got one of those folding ladders that is over 6 foot tall in a step ladder configuration - I use this to get over gates and fences without touching them if the gates are padlocked.
On the other hand. one of the local WFP lads dumped loads of work about 18 months ago that didn't have easy access to the back or that took too long. For him, time is money. A couple of minutes wasted here and there will mean one or two less houses cleaned that day. He is money driven. He's the first person to admit that he is not looking to do a 100% job either. Why strive to do a near perfect job which will take twice as long as the 90% job he does now?
I think there is something to be learnt from the principal of this. As heath deteriorates I may have to dump customers that require extra work, climbing over garages etc. After all most window cleaners cherish their bungalows as they can always keep them on after retirement for a bit of pocket money as they are usually easy work.
Spruce
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Hi all, ive been trying out a new guy for the last few weeks, and as stated hes 55 years old and while hes great with the custies, iam finding its hard to pick jobs for him, when i send him out on his own, like he cant climb over gates, and ladders arnt his strong point, and he seems knackard by 2pm. and (the important thing) hes not making me any money as the amount of work he can do is only enough to just about pay him.
like he cant climb over gates, You sure?
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Its a little sad really,... as windies .. most guys at 55 if in good health can run up and down ladders all day and still scale a few gates.
i see an old windie on my round (older than 60),,, scales a little wall jumps on the extention , cleans, and then hops back down like a teenager.
Its fitness and enthusiasm thats important.
Not age !
;)
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Its fitness and enthusiasm thats important.
gazza that is so true
i can wfp all day no problem, tried a few younger guys, they just could not handle it lol i kid you not, ;D and i am double their age lol
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like he cant climb over gates
No employee should be asked to climb over gates, if this guy has a fall doing so you could be in deep poo with h&s
As i doubt very much climbing over gates could be written into anybodys term of contract.
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like he cant climb over gates
No employee should be asked to climb over gates, if this guy has a fall doing so you could be in deep poo with h&s
As i doubt very much climbing over gates could be written into anybodys term of contract.
i understand what you are saying james, but i would say 90% of windes on here jump gates to get the job done, not saying its right but its just something we just do.
let me expand on my first post. this guy is pretty fit, he did 23years in the army, has worked for the police force. still plays cricket every week in the season. goes to the gym every week. the job he did before was a high paying job he was a 40% tax payer. but his army pension has kicked in so he has decided to quit his job to have more time with his family and to work for me part time. but iam not sure how much he wants to work for me or if hes just used working for me as a excuse to his missus to quit his job early. iam not sure if its going to work out but its not easy for me as the guy is my brother!!!
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Yep get what you are saying mark!
i think you will know the old saying family and business just do not mix in most cases.
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Re reading your post if he is that fit and been in the army then climbing over a gate would not be a problem sounds to me like he has no interest!
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I'm 52 next month this post makes me feel old. Though although I do get tired sometimes I almost always get a full day in (weather permitting). I haven't jumped over a gate for years though. Its a lot easier to text a custie night before. Besides jumping over gates just gives us wcs a worse image than we already have.
Ps Although I'm almost 52 I get up at 7am and go to bed at 12am. Think most of young brigade are in cookoo land at 10pm.
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like he cant climb over gates
No employee should be asked to climb over gates, if this guy has a fall doing so you could be in deep poo with h&s
As i doubt very much climbing over gates could be written into anybodys term of contract.
i understand what you are saying james, but i would say 90% of windes on here jump gates to get the job done, not saying its right but its just something we just do.
let me expand on my first post. this guy is pretty fit, he did 23years in the army, has worked for the police force. still plays cricket every week in the season. goes to the gym every week. the job he did before was a high paying job he was a 40% tax payer. but his army pension has kicked in so he has decided to quit his job to have more time with his family and to work for me part time. but iam not sure how much he wants to work for me or if hes just used working for me as a excuse to his missus to quit his job early. iam not sure if its going to work out but its not easy for me as the guy is my brother!!!
Is ok jumping gates yourself but to ask an employee to do it is asking for trouble imo. How long has he been working for you?
I don't think it matters how fit or strong anyone is, cleaning windows traditionally is going to be a shock for anyone who hasn't done it regularly.
The fact that he is your brother sets alarms ringing for me. I'd question his commitment from the beginning.
Is going to take at least a month or more before he gets a handle on what he's doing anyway.
If he becomes any good for you will depend on whether he actually wants to work for you and the quality of the training you give him.
A good talk explaining what is required of him from the off and a probation period which should include proper training rather than letting him get on with it.
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Well I'm 53 and stopped jumping over gates about 15 years ago. It's not that I can't. I just won't.
I think the employr should take responsibility for notifying the customers the evening before to unlock their gates. If they won't do that then they have to go elsewhere for a service.
Apart from that, I'm not so sure H & S would permit gate jumping anyway.
Go WFP then he will be able to vault over them.
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like he cant climb over gates
No employee should be asked to climb over gates, if this guy has a fall doing so you could be in deep poo with h&s
As i doubt very much climbing over gates could be written into anybodys term of contract.
i understand what you are saying james, but i would say 90% of windes on here jump gates to get the job done, not saying its right but its just something we just do.
let me expand on my first post. this guy is pretty fit, he did 23years in the army, has worked for the police force. still plays cricket every week in the season. goes to the gym every week. the job he did before was a high paying job he was a 40% tax payer. but his army pension has kicked in so he has decided to quit his job to have more time with his family and to work for me part time. but iam not sure how much he wants to work for me or if hes just used working for me as a excuse to his missus to quit his job early. iam not sure if its going to work out but its not easy for me as the guy is my brother!!!
No problem.
Miliband managed it. I'm sure you can ;D
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Miliband managed it. I'm sure you can
;D
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Oh dear! Not sure if I should be reading this thread. I'm 56 nearly 57.
It's not about being too old it's about health - I know some guys older than me who are fitter, some who are unfitter (spelling!).
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Ermmm ::)
I started my business in 2001 - I was 57 at the time. OK - I've been a window cleaner all my life and was just returning from a break of three years while I tried something else, but I spent the next 2-3 years running up and down a ladder, jumping over gates and doing all the strenuous things you have to when you're trad.
I had a lad working for me one winter, and one very cold day he sat in the van and refused to work because it was too cold.
I took a scrim and ladder, and went and did the next house on his day's list. I ragged everything (i.e. rubbed like mad till the glass was spotless). Then I made him shake my hand so he could see how warm it was.
I told him then: "I'm 57 - more than twice your age. If you can't at least match what I can do you might as well pack it in now!!"
That shamed him into getting off his a**e and getting back to work.
55 is no age at all - unless the person has serious health problems he should be told to get on and do it properly or get on his bike!!
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I was 68 a couple of weeks ago and can still do a full day's graft no problem.
I smoke too much, drink too much and weigh in at 17 stone. If I can get my hand to it I can pull myself over it, but it's getting harder. I get up at 6.15 and go to bed at midnight and that's my problem, I'm just not getting enough sleep.
I have had to pull over for a 15 minute kip when less than 5 miles from home, and I often get in, see to my water and battery, have a shower and get my head down for an hour.
If I push it too hard one day to get an estate finished, I will be drained on the next day by 3pm.
I just need to pace myself a little better, If I could get myself to bed by 10.30 I could fly through the next day, but I just don't do it. It's my own fault if I get knackered. Having a wife in her thirties, and a seven month old baby doesn't help with the sleep deprivation either.
One of these days I will fall from under my poll, but I will only have fallen asleep on ther job. Dai
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He has to understand that his endeavours must make you a profit so put him in on an open ended pay scale based on him being paid a percentage of what his work has earned.If he doesn`t think that is fair then he is taking the michael.Watch out,next thing will be him asking what your insurance policies are like when he has tweaked his back or something and he wont even think its personal as if he has been an employee all his life thats what he will expect and bad weather etc means its your fault if he cant work so you keep paying.And all the time he will be thinking HE is doing you a favour.Total recipe for disaster,sell him some suitable work at the full going rate and let him get on with it himself and if he doesnt want to do this then there is your answer,he was only after a cushy number!
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no way is 55 too old. I class that as young stiill. Theres a guy near me in he's 70s still going strong. I hope i wont be looked at as unfit for a job at 55...gulp.
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55? Old?
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As I said earlier it's not really about age it's about health. My brother is in his 61st year and fitter than a butcher's dog.
I am in my 57th year - I have heart disease, diabetes, hiatus hernia, IBS, carpal tunnel syndrome, worn out knees, plantars fasciitis (fallen arches), and since my heart attack I have put on 3 stone.
After my heart attack the doctor offered me the DLA route, I thought about it for a few weeks then decided to look into WFP, I'd been trad wc for about 17 years, I can swing a 45' pole, and climb the odd gate, sometimes we do 12 hour days, sometimes 5, that's the beauty of this it's not a job it's a lifestyle choice.
Would anyone else employ me? Probably only Tescos shelf filling! So I'm happy and count each day ;) 8)