Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gewindows on September 26, 2010, 10:42:29 am
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What amount of time would you say is fair/average considering the business we are in. Heres my thinking.
3 days per month for poor weather = 36 days (7 weeks)
3 weeks holiday per year.
1 week bank holidays.
1 week ill/sick.
1 week for various (van in for MOT, van breakdown, family sickness, dentist etc)
3 months!!
That equates to 25% of the year.
I was quite surprised to think it might be a full quarter of my working year.
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Matt.
what about weekends, bank holidays, festive season, Easter
I know some windies work these times but a fair majority don't
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I normally expect to lose one day a week due to bad weather - could of course make this up on the weekend. Don't generally take holidays except when forced to (Christmas etc). So far I have been incredibly lucky regarding illness and van breakdowns.
I think I lose one month per year untangling my hose!
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I think I lose one month per year untangling my hose!
One of the scariest facts I ever worked out: Spend two minutes per working day doing something and it's a working day a year...
I bear this in mind whenever I find myself doing something not related to making money in the business.
Vin
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Not to mention , not going out of the door early enough in the mornings. ;D ;D
on some days
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I think I lose one month per year untangling my hose!
One of the scariest facts I ever worked out: Spend two minutes per working day doing something and it's a working day a year...
I bear this in mind whenever I find myself doing something not related to making money in the business.
Vin
Wonder how many days we spend on the forum then cause i know i spend more than 2 minutes a day on here!!
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One of the scariest facts I ever worked out: Spend two minutes per working day doing something and it's a working day a year...
I bear this in mind whenever I find myself doing something not related to making money in the business.
Vin
have you tried Viagra ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D
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What amount of time would you say is fair/average considering the business we are in. Heres my thinking.
3 days per month for poor weather = 36 days (7 weeks)
3 weeks holiday per year.
1 week bank holidays.
1 week ill/sick.
1 week for various (van in for MOT, van breakdown, family sickness, dentist etc)
3 months!!
That equates to 25% of the year.
I was quite surprised to think it might be a full quarter of my working year.
I generally lose less time for the weather as I work unless it's raining fairly hard (or frozen up).
I take less holidays than that too and sometimes work on a bank holiday.
I may lose 2 - 3 days for van repairs and/or a couple of medical appointments. If the van was going to be off road for a while, I would rent a small one and work from containers and backpack. I don't usually get sick but anyone can have a week or so for (man) flu. I suppose it averages out at a week or so taking longer illness into account but little illness at other times.
I usually cost work at holidays and sickness being 10% of the working year. It's rare for me to need that much though. Mind you, family sickness isn't such an issue as I live on my own.
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Paul the figures Ive quoted arent necessarily the ones that materialise in my work but they are fair and balanced I think.
I put this thread up because I did a gutter clean job this week and when I rang the lady whose house it was to see if she was happy with the end result asked me 'How much was it???' as if to say 'Isnt that rather a lot for 2 hours work?' as her mother had been in whilst I did the job so reported back once Id been.
And yes on the surface it was a lot of money for 2 hours work, but things are never as clear or as simple as some people might like to think.
I have since worked out that for every £1,000 I earn I will only be left with £440.
Figures above indicate loss of earning of £250.
Other business, equipment, capital expenditure and fuel costs might be £80 a week.
Taxation and national insurance on remaining £670 would be approx £220.
So lets say that lot totals £550.
Leaving £450.00
It isnt quite as simple as I have generally thought either and I dont think thats a great deal of money for a self-employed individual.
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I have since worked out that for every £1,000 I earn I will only be left with £440.
Figures above indicate loss of earning of £250.
Other business, equipment, capital expenditure and fuel costs might be £80 a week.
Taxation and national insurance on remaining £670 would be approx £220.
So lets say that lot totals £550.
Leaving £450.00
It isnt quite as simple as I have generally thought either and I dont think thats a great deal of money for a self-employed individual.
That's getting your maths back to front. You are not losing £250 out of very £1,000 you earn.
You're double counting there. The 25% should be taken as a deduction at the end, i.e. take your net figure for a week and multiply by 39 weeks, not 52. Taking it at the start is meaningless mathematically.
Finally, if you're paying £13,000 of £39,000 turnover (less £3,000 expenses) in tax, you need a new accountant.
Vin
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You also neglecting the fact that you tend to catch up for poor weather, bank holidays, sick and van MOTs, etc, so the days aren't actually lost, just deferred.
Vin
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It isnt a lesson in taxation.
Its intended as an illustration of varying costs, some we all are aware of and some that are hidden and not so obvious at first glance.
Essentially to show that what you charge can be a long way off what you have at the end of the day.
Just a discussion, nothing more.
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I'm not commenting on your maths as I havn't checked them.
However you do make valid points about the time spent 'cleaning' and everything inbetween.
If it helps an accountant, for examble, wont spend 36 hours a week 'working'. Neither will any other office worker. Think of the lost hours going to the loo, talking to the collegues, daydreaming and the like.
Many offices like to up productivity but then they become sweat shops.
For us, all the customer sees is the time when they eventually clap eyes on us till the time we hold our hand out for payment. almost 100% time 'actually working'. There are of course other things to do like having a pee and daydreaming!
I'm sure some people look at the profit that car salesmen take in their half hour with the customer and think WHAT! Say a 2k profit for less than an hour. But thats not a fair reflection at all.
When customers comment about the time/price ratio I sound shocked and say "Oh dear is as long as that, I usually aim for £xx.xx" then double their number.
Our hourly 'on the job rate' should be way higher than our turnover divided by 36 hrs, which will be way highr than our actual spendable income.
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Exactly.
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You also neglecting the fact that you tend to catch up for poor weather, bank holidays, sick and van MOTs, etc, so the days aren't actually lost, just deferred.
Vin
I hope you dont rely on that.
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There is definatly a 'potential' loss of 25% if not a bit more.
Put it this way for every £750 we earn there is another £250 that we could have earnt if it wasnt for the factors you mentioned.
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Thats the one! ;)
And because of that needs to be allowed for when pricing or working out your hourly rate. Its no good and very bad business practice to think 'It'll be okay I can make up for it tomorrow'!
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I hope you dont rely on that.
Of course I do.
In the same way that there is always more toothpaste in the tube, there's always space to slip in an extra job into a day.
Simple.
Vin
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That really depends where your focus is in life. Do you live to work or work to live?
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That really depends where your focus is in life. Do you live to work or work to live?
By the phrasing of the question, you appear to assume that those are the only two possibilities, whereas I achieve a balance between the two. I live and I work, but I do neither to the exclusion of the other.
Vin
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I think I lose one month per year untangling my hose!
One of the scariest facts I ever worked out: Spend two minutes per working day doing something and it's a working day a year...
I bear this in mind whenever I find myself doing something not related to making money in the business.
Vin
Your comments don't seem to suggest that. And as I don't know you they are all I can base I disagreeumptions on. ;)
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I hope you dont rely on that.
Of course I do.
In the same way that there is always more toothpaste in the tube, there's always space to slip in an extra job into a day.
Simple.
Vin
So in the winter in the middle of December it pi$$e$ down for a week (which isnt unusual) and then its those bank holidays you mention that you reckon you can catch up on (christmas and new year), by the time its the end of the first week of January in the new year you're 2-3 weeks behind you do what work/hours/earningswise the following week?
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I think I lose one month per year untangling my hose!
One of the scariest facts I ever worked out: Spend two minutes per working day doing something and it's a working day a year...
I bear this in mind whenever I find myself doing something not related to making money in the business.
Vin
Your comments don't seem to suggest that. And as I don't know you they are all I can base I disagreeumptions on. ;)
Ah, grasshopper, exactly my point. The two minute quote reflects the fact that I try not to waste working time with non-productive activities. This means I have time to earn money and to live.
Vin
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So in the winter in the middle of December it pi$$e$ down for a week (which isnt unusual) and then its those bank holidays you mention that you reckon you can catch up on (christmas and new year), by the time its the end of the first week of January in the new year you're 2-3 weeks behind you do what work/hours/earningswise the following week?
I work in the rain. I take two weeks of planned holiday over Christmas and New Year.
Vin
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Holiday was one of the criteria listed that can cause loss of earnings, I thought you said you'd be able to catch up on those things.
Anyway you havent done a christmas yet, your still in your first year by the looks of things.
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Holiday was one of the criteria listed that can cause loss of earnings, I thought you said you'd be able to catch up on those things.
Anyway you havent done a christmas yet, your still in your first year by the looks of things.
WHAT?! Were being lectured on productivity by a newbie!! How long have you been at it then Perfect Windows?
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Holiday was one of the criteria listed that can cause loss of earnings, I thought you said you'd be able to catch up on those things.
Nope. Try reading this: probably for the first time, I guess. No mention of holidays other than bank holidays.
You also neglecting the fact that you tend to catch up for poor weather, bank holidays, sick and van MOTs, etc, so the days aren't actually lost, just deferred.
Vin
Ok, let me put it more accurately. I plan (as I always have in every job I've ever done) to take two weeks at Christmas and New Year. So, that takes care of three bank holidays included in my couple of weeks off.
WHAT?! Were being lectured on productivity by a newbie!! How long have you been at it then Perfect Windows?
Started last Wednesday, Stuart.
Vin
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Holiday was one of the criteria listed that can cause loss of earnings, I thought you said you'd be able to catch up on those things.
Anyway you havent done a christmas yet, your still in your first year by the looks of things.
WHAT?! Were being lectured on productivity by a newbie!! How long have you been at it then Perfect Windows?
;D ;D ;D
No mention of holidays other than bank holidays.
Oh really?
What amount of time would you say is fair/average considering the business we are in. Heres my thinking.
3 days per month for poor weather = 36 days (7 weeks)
3 weeks holiday per year.
1 week bank holidays.
1 week ill/sick.
1 week for various (van in for MOT, van breakdown, family sickness, dentist etc)
3 months!!
That equates to 25% of the year.
I was quite surprised to think it might be a full quarter of my working year.
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I know you mentioned holidays. I didn't mention it (see my quote above) as something that could be caught up, which you implied I had said in in an earlier post of yours. That's why.....
Ah, stuff it.
Life's too short.
Vin
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;D ;D
Anyway, your only just down the road from me, if you want any tips from an old-timer give me a shout ;)
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;D ;D
Anyway, your only just down the road from me, if you want any tips from an old-timer give me a shout ;)
Where are you? I'm always keen on advice.
Vin
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I've lost my nail clippers.
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Basingstoke.
But I do a lot of Hampshire. Particularly hi-end/high value work ;)
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pfft.
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Get back on yer 'orse ;)
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Did anyone mention time spent in the Caff? I go out with a list, I do my list and I come home. Its funny but somehow it always seems to fit exactly into the time. Even allowing for trips to homebase or Halfords or round my mum's for a cuppa.
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;D
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"Time is more valuable than money. You can get more money,but you cannot get more time".
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work to live
not live to work ;)
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Easier said then done for millions of workers mike, why else are they at work?
Living or getting by?
sadly i have to agree with you ewan
we are the lucky ones ;)
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Define successful window cleaner Ewan, one-man-band window cleaner.
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If you need to ask then you don't know.
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Do you know what Ewan thinks is a successful window cleaner?
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Only those in the know know. Ewan doesn't know you know so no I don't know that Ewan knows. I don't think Ewan knows what makes a successful window cleaner you know. So if you do know Ewan then let us know - yes or no?
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LOL,
Monday I saw 4 men get out of an estate car and clean a house close to one of my customer, they charge half the money I charge and only clean it in half the time it takes me alone to clean my customers house.
You do the math.
Do you want more examples, I have loads.
Just saving his post
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LOL,
Monday I saw 4 men get out of an estate car and clean a house close to one of my customer, they charge half the money I charge and only clean it in half the time it takes me alone to clean my customers house.
You do the math.
Do you want more examples, I have loads.
I'm pretty sure i remember you quoting something like you cleaned a £20 property in 20 mins, so if they done a £10 one in 10 mins they're still quids in, irrespective of what if any vehicle they got out of?
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I seen 4 guys out near me.Dont know how they make it pay,three of them are probably on dole and get £30 cash in hand.One guy loo like had nt wash for a year. They didnt seem to cover their work 4 time quicker.Ladders with broken rungs and worn out feet and their scrims look filthy.They use to do my neighbours houses. I think a maximum of 2 on a property is enough bet they miss loads of windows as well thinking some one else has done them.
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I don;t know why the OP is suprised at lost time. It certainley has to be factored in, if anyone thinks they're gonna be working, or rather earning 5 days a week 48 weeks a year in this game then they need to think again. Thats the gist of it innit?
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If you need to ask then you don't know.
Ewan then let us know
8) 8)
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Thats the gist of it innit?
Ay, it is.
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What would you regard as successful?
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im successful IN MY EYES! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
for an ex-drunk im doing very well for myself........sober!!
but its ongoing!my round is always developing and changing! pricing new work at better prices etc.
the freedom of being your own boss should never be underestimated lads!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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well done dazmond! how long has it been sober mate?
hope im not cheeky asking!
Regards g.b
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I lost time today because my battery went flat and could'nt be bothered to get the ladders off and clean them trad at 4 pm go back in morning and finish the job...Does that make me unsuccessful as a window cleaner. ;D
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What would you regard as successful?
I don’t think successful window cleaners ask how to price what’s already within the capability and resources. They would already know how to deal with spotting on the glass, and wouldn’t procrastinate over the cost of peripheral equipment that’s important to the job.
More importantly they wouldn’t personalise or have to ask the definition of success regarding window cleaning.
It’s not a mystery or a secret; it is something that can be learned by most people.
He probably asked you Ewan because lets face it your more than cryptic. Thats why I asked anyway.
Anyway, Im successful.