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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Panorama on September 15, 2010, 01:52:42 pm

Title: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Panorama on September 15, 2010, 01:52:42 pm
What is the correct method when using wfp. The reason I ask is I was in a cafe in Hartlepool the other week watching someone ( I'm still trad at mo ) clean a premise. They done all the second floor then first floor using the same technique ( scrubbed  each window then moved onto the next one ). No rinsing. Is this correct ???
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: gewindows on September 15, 2010, 02:03:30 pm
Deep ends  ;D
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Panorama on September 15, 2010, 02:53:17 pm
Deep ends  ;D
.                     On what ???
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Llaaww on September 15, 2010, 03:48:32 pm
depends on how often they are done, and how clean they are before you start. I surpose it would depend on how close the punter looks at them as well.
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: tws on September 15, 2010, 03:49:44 pm
What is the correct method when using wfp. The reason I ask is I was in a cafe in Hartlepool the other week watching someone ( I'm still trad at mo ) clean a premise. They done all the second floor then first floor using the same technique ( scrubbed  each window then moved onto the next one ). No rinsing. Is this correct ???
this appears to be the problem i watched a bloke in bury nr manchester using wfp and came to the conclusion it was crap, i was just about to buy a wfp and changed my mind, this i now realise was a mistake its only as good as the operator most rinse i believe.
 i would try to spend some time with someone who as used wfp for some time and learn from a good,en there's a few on here.  
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: chopsie on September 15, 2010, 05:12:56 pm
maybe he rinsed on glass?
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Panorama on September 15, 2010, 07:59:36 pm
maybe he rinsed on glass?
.          No he just scrubbed them. In interested in wfp myself and would like to know the correct technique.
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on September 15, 2010, 08:02:24 pm
What is the correct method when using wfp. The reason I ask is I was in a cafe in Hartlepool the other week watching someone ( I'm still trad at mo ) clean a premise. They done all the second floor then first floor using the same technique ( scrubbed  each window then moved onto the next one ). No rinsing. Is this correct ???
this appears to be the problem i watched a bloke in bury nr manchester using wfp and came to the conclusion it was crap, i was just about to buy a wfp and changed my mind, this i now realise was a mistake its only as good as the operator most rinse i believe.
 i would try to spend some time with someone who as used wfp for some time and learn from a good,en there's a few on here.  
do u clean bury m8
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: mci services on September 15, 2010, 08:04:13 pm
if he uses a high flow rate and a mono brush it will look like he is just scrubbing, there is no right way, you find a way you are confident
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: mikecam on September 15, 2010, 08:05:40 pm
In interested in wfp myself and would like to know the correct technique.
At least one of the lads off here have put a few you tube vids up which are quite instructive. Adders rinse and clean is one, username "Cat?????" something or other.
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: cat9921 on September 15, 2010, 08:52:20 pm
In interested in wfp myself and would like to know the correct technique.
At least one of the lads off here have put a few you tube vids up which are quite instructive. Adders rinse and clean is one, username "Cat?????" something or other.

Thank you mikecam I have always liked you  ;D

A lot of newbys ask this question so I will do a video on how to do a first clean if that will help  ::)

Adders
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: gewindows on September 15, 2010, 08:54:57 pm
Depends on what his flow rate is like as well.
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: pd window cleaning on September 15, 2010, 09:13:10 pm
u have to rinse outher wise u get all the muck out the frames runing down the window ;)
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: mci services on September 15, 2010, 09:23:42 pm
u have to rinse outher wise u get all the muck out the frames runing down the window ;)

yes but a lot have successfully managed to get it so you can rinse with brush on the glass so it looks like you are just scrubbing when someone does it, trust me I do it everyday ;)
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Crystal-clear on September 15, 2010, 09:31:08 pm
i never worked higher then 30 foot but it is hard to lift pole in air and rinse all the time so you do what you can , sometimes you have extensions at an angle , only way i rinse these is slight lift must be carefull not to break pole, or slide the brush , use more water etc
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Newannaive on September 15, 2010, 09:35:46 pm
u have to rinse outher wise u get all the muck out the frames runing down the window ;)

yes but a lot have successfully managed to get it so you can rinse with brush on the glass so it looks like you are just scrubbing when someone does it, trust me I do it everyday ;)
less strain on the back  :)
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on September 16, 2010, 06:45:38 pm
in answe to the chaps original question seems to gone to a debate now so mate wfp can be cleaned on a higher setting witout rinsing lower settings need a second clean so its best on the higher setting a rocking motion is applied to thr usage of the pole not pushing hurts ya shoulder dont ya know put me out for a few days when i started and the higher you go the further out you need to be sat 6mtres to window so you have to be 3mtre out it works on a 2mtr up and 1mtr out theory hope this helps 
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on September 16, 2010, 06:47:51 pm
oh and get a trigger for ya pole its poo off a stick i cant say the s word any more been told off mates naughty me
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Ian_Giles on September 17, 2010, 01:23:50 pm
there is no one all encompassing technique!

As has been said, it depends on things like, flowrate, type and age of frames, paintwork, putty, glass, frequency of clean, type of brush and some other things too if I took the time to think about it!

Oh,v thought of another couple....type of jet in the brush, weather conditions, are you coastal or inland, trees and hedges, closeness to bridges & flyovers, heavy traffic....the list just goes on and on  :-\

Have a think about rinsing.....

do you ever watch the water as it travels down the glass? mostly it flows down the path of least resistance, splitting into various runnels and missing as much as it rinses.
OK, on good 'hydrophilic. glass the water will spread perfectly as you rinse, almost drying as it goes, but often - even in the same window frame - you will have some panes that are hydrophilic and some that are hydrophobic.

Something else to consider; all the time you are scrubbing and cleaning the glass you are also rinsing at the same time...if you can actually see particles on the glass (prior to rinsing if you view rinsing as a separate action) do you think that means that if you do not rinse you will leave the glass spotty after it dries?

Not necessarily so, it isn't lumps of visible grit that cause spotting, its microscopic dust that you can't see that causes that (or one of the causes at least) and most of the time there is little in the way of that dust left on visible grit....which is only visible when the glass is wet anyway.
And of course, when you do notice those annoying little bits half the time you have to chase them all the way to the bottom of the glass to be sure you get rid of them....easy enough with good fan jets and a decent flowrate...not so if you have needle jets and a flowrate of about a litre & a half.

If you are only happy if you know you have given the glass a decent rinse (understandable) then rinse with the brush on the glass, and by that I mean with the tips of the bristles just barely touching the glass, if nothing else this at least facilitates the chasing down of those darn tricksy bits of grit!


WFP technique is pretty individual, we all develop our own personalised techniques as we gain experience.

As an example: When I come across a UVPE window that has oxidised frames, I know that the first clean will mean a very heavy scrub of the frame and a good rinse to boot, going back to each window after a few others have been cleaned [if needed] in a similar manner, to re-clean the window, but this time to clean just the glass itself.
In this case I'll also [mostly] carefully rinse 'off the glass'....if I've scrubbed the frames enough, hopefully I'll have removed the worst of the oxidisation from the frames, and the second clean & rinse won't further remove oxidised UPVE from the frames to mar the glass once it has dried.
Subsequent cleans - and the shorter the repeat frequency the better - should mean I can get away with a light wash of the frames, with the glass being cleaned up to the edge of the glazing, and....er, in the case of oxidised frames  :-\ an off the glass rinse, as rinsing with the brush "on" might loosen and remove further UPVE oxidisation that will end out spotting the glass.

But on a non-oxidised frame I'd wash and rinse "Brush on" in one continuous motion and be very confident of leaving the window spotless once dry.

As a footnote; On oxidised frames, most especially on upstairs windows directly under the soffet's, the very top of the frame won't have oxidised as the overhanging soffet's & barge boards will have prevented them from receiving direct sunshine during the heat of the day...ergo, as they won't have oxidised providing in yor first clean you've done a decent job of cleaning the tops of those frames, you should be able to clean those top edges confident that you're not  going to  do a poor quality job.   ;)

So, the above is one explanation (long winded maybe  :-X) of how one particular type of window might be addressed....try doing that for ever conceivable condition and detail a technique for coping with it would fill a rather large and heavy tome...or it would if I was writing it anyway ;D

Ian
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: gary999 on September 17, 2010, 03:14:35 pm
the above is what i call

an exellent post  :)
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Ian_Giles on September 17, 2010, 04:04:10 pm
Thanks Gary! I do my best  ;)  (and even my worst is often at great length  :-\ I never seem to use just one word if I can use half a dozen instead...sigh  :-X

Ian.
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Simon Brannon on September 17, 2010, 11:08:02 pm
great post Ian - very informative - cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Londoner on September 18, 2010, 08:37:20 am
When I was driving my taxi around London I got the chance to observe loads of window cleaners both trad and WFP. I could just pull up along side them and pretend to be talking on my phone. I studyed their techniques and learned a lot.

Many wfp cleaners do not clean properly IMO they don't do into the corners and they don't rinse. Thats why you have always have these comments on here and elsewhere about wfp being rubbish.

Its splash and dash heaven. The worst are the employed cleaners on commercial accounts.

Don't try to copy them 
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Londoner on September 18, 2010, 08:42:16 am
great post Ian - very informative - cheers

Simon
Ian is the man, he taught most of us if you go back far enough.
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Panorama on September 18, 2010, 01:32:58 pm
thanks for the excellent posts. im looking at pure freedom trolley ( 50lt ) and having read the threads on this and other forums they give excellent demos on all techniques. ( oxidised frames ? ) sorry for been thick lol. p.s im thinking going down the hot wash route eventually do pure freedom do these ?
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: windowswashed on September 18, 2010, 10:02:30 pm
On oxidised window frames, different brushes like flocked bristles will accelerate the process as well. Same as heated water or warmish water during a hot day as opposed to cold water on a cold day :)
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Spruce on September 19, 2010, 02:33:20 pm
When I was driving my taxi around London I got the chance to observe loads of window cleaners both trad and WFP. I could just pull up along side them and pretend to be talking on my phone. I studyed their techniques and learned a lot.

Many wfp cleaners do not clean properly IMO they don't do into the corners and they don't rinse. Thats why you have always have these comments on here and elsewhere about wfp being rubbish.

Its splash and dash heaven. The worst are the employed cleaners on commercial accounts.

Don't try to copy them 

Vince
Well said.
I have been watching a trad cleaner for months on our estate. He first cleaned off ladders, using his applicator, then squeege, and then ended by polishing the window with another cloth.
He has now changed over to WFP with a hand-pump backpack and a brush. First time round he wet the windows and then squeeged them off with a squeege on a pole.
The last time he just wet the windows with his brush and left them to dry. He only had 3 x 20litre plastic drums of water in his 4x4. We will see how long he will last.
Spruce
Title: Re: Watching wfp in use
Post by: Panorama on September 20, 2010, 09:58:12 pm
thanks for the excellent posts. im looking at pure freedom trolley ( 50lt ) and having read the threads on this and other forums they give excellent demos on all techniques. ( oxidised frames ? ) sorry for been thick lol. p.s im thinking going down the hot wash route eventually do pure freedom do these ?
to answer my own question, yes they do  ;D