Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: wayne zabel on September 07, 2010, 08:58:10 pm
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Had a call back tonight regarding a job I did last week.Customer not happy saying the stains on a bedroom carpet are not cleared and theres a few dirty patches still on a staircase.
There are some stains on the bedroom carpet that wouldn't come out and looked like grease stains,these were pointed out at the time.
The stair case was absolutely filthy with caked on mud and new paint stains.I got all the paint stains out and thought the job was a good one when I left,I now admit that part at the top are still dirty having seen it again.
I know i could get the stairs clean but the expectations for the bedroom are too high,so i told them I would give them their money back as i cant be arsed with doing the bedroom again and still not meeting the customers expectation.
Should i offer a full refund or only a part,as considering I got the stairs back to a level that I was very happy with apart from the dirty part at the top that I now admit should have been done better.I never expected to get all the paint out but did so.
The problems here are compounded in that the customer is Asian and speaks bad English and making myself understood is very difficult
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Wayne I would re clean areas pointed out, if it was that bad there could be some wicking but if you start offering money back you'll get a 'name' for yourself as a pushover, re clean only areas ponted out and point out that now that you have done them twice that if it isn't going to respond 2nd time it isn't going to 'period' then pack up and ship out!
Communication is one of the hardest part of the job, just take it as experience and also on how to deal and put right awkward customers.
Shaun
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Wayne,
I'd just go back and fix the bits they are not happy with. Sounds as if you didn't qualify them as to the expected result given the condition of the carpets - but we live and learn, still a bit gutting tho.
Simon
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did you do the best job possible?
if so then they don't get a refund of any sorts, you have done nothing wrong...... they have
if they allow their carpets to get into such a terrible state then the limitation of the clean is there fault not yours.
if they cannot understand this then tell them to get back in touch when they have mastered the English language
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They are unlikely to be a repeat customer so get them off your back as quickly as possible you could go back and they may still not be satisfied, it depends what guarantees you offer regarding money back etc if not satisfied.
As they say you cannot please all the people all of the time.
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did you do the best job possible?
if so then they don't get a refund of any sorts, you have done nothing wrong...... they have
if they allow their carpets to get into such a terrible state then the limitation of the clean is there fault not yours.
if they cannot understand this then tell them to get back in touch when they have mastered the English language
Mike how did that job at the united nations pan out ;D
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I can't believe there are people who live in this country, who call themselves British and yet can't speak a word of English, it's outrageous.
As far as the complaint is concerned I'd probably go back and look at what they are complaining about and fix anything that wasn't done right, but also be very firm indeed about reminding them of how dirty the carpets were in the first place. >:(
Simon
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Wayne i agree with the above posts never take a job on without explaining the limitations
your the cleaner they are the customer that let it get in that state. why should you end up owning it
If as you stated you could have cleaned certain areas better then go back and clean JUST those areas again then sleep tight & move on mate.
We have all been their fair play to you for comming on here and being honest.
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I must admit I was thinking of posting simular to Mike's but it in the scheme of things it doesn't help, I do believe that Mike's post is how someone with plenty of work would answer but Wayne is pretty much new and needs a more of a softer approach to customer service.
Shaun
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Wayne i use the NCCA carpet care form and i always state "clean to best advantage" on these forms whether this would get me off the hook in this situation has not been tested yet "touch wood" but best to always under sell what the results may be, that way the customer will be amazed when it looks great and not be too surprised if if does not come out as good as you would like,i am not saying this would have worked in this case some people are just difficult, but worth considering.
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This is what i write on the bottom of quote if in a state you mentioned
While it is not possible to guarantee all stains will be removed, we will endeavour to provide the best results possible.
And if they dont like it NEXT
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If the customer speaks little english then I wouldn't have thought that he can't read either, not sure how legal these disclaimers are and especially if the customer can convince the court that he can hardly read or write.
Let's get real about this, it's going to be a grin and bear it or tell the customer to sod off, I personally think grin and bear it be polite and professional and learn how to deal with it, if the customer was an old person who was frail and infirm would you give them the same answer?
Shaun
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Wayne
At least you have already been paid.
I think the expression is "possession is 9/10ths of the law"
So you remain in control-it's what you are prepared to offer to them, not what they demand of you-they really don't have a hold on you.
That said, it usually pays to remain polite and professional when dealing with all people; even when you know you are in the right.
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my opinion on this situation is that I always do the best job possible, if a customer were to ring me up and complain and ask for a re-clean then I would make a judgment call and ask myself.........
would cleaning it again make any difference
and the truthful answer would be no...... because if it could have come any cleaner then I didn't do the job properly in the first place.
so then i will do either....... just tell them I made the carpet as clean as it can possibly be made, but I want them to be happy so the best thing to do is make the clean complementary and give them a refund.
With some customers I know when I have done a good job no matter what they complain about and they have got good value for money so they get no refund.
But if a customer is taking the pizz then my attitude is like they are thieves trying to reach into my pocket and steal they money i would use to feed my children >:( >:( >:(
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Mike, does that mean you've never been back to clean a carpet ?
I always think I've done the best job possible, but it's amazing what can happen to a carpet when it's dried, so I always go back and look and often re clean,
Most people don't want a refund they want a clean carpet and be reassured u done your best.
I have been back and cleaned what looks like a perfectly clean carpet and then the customer has been happy, that's really what matters at the end of the day
Steve
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Steve I have re-cleaned carpets but often i know they won't look any different but I do a reclean because i value the customer and that's what will make them happy. but this is after i've explained to them that I don't believe the carpet will come any cleaner and have offered the refund, if they chose for me to re-clean they don't get the refund i offered.
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I don't like the idea of giving a refund. After all we are paid to apply a process on their mess. Their mess doesn't suddenly become our mess or even our problem when we take on a job. As long as you haven't mislead them about what is achievable.
As others have said the key to it all is the quality of the dialogue that takes place before the work is carried out. If you tell them what sort of results to expect but go on to say that you can make them as clean as they can be. I don't see any reason to give a refund.
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all my experience with our colonial cousins in my last life as a decorator is that they allways want something for nothing and they allways look for a reason not to pay or to pay less, dont fall into that trap, if you explained your expectations stick to your guns. i am sure there are lots of people on here that have had positive experiences with them but for me i usually try and give them a miss.
here is a typical example a young asian girl recently bumped my wifes car whilst it was parked, she had not long passed her test and wanted to avoid insurance as her excess was £500. anyway the father got involved and would not let her pay the £200 quoted wanted to pay £150 result it went to the insurance company had a hire car for 5 days bill must have been near to £800 at least so bang went the excess and probably a huge loading next year ,sorry if its a bit off subject but that is typical of my experinces with our asian friends, no i am not racist just realise their way is totally different to ours.
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Thanks for all the replies.i have decided to give them the money back.we are not talking a lot of money anyway.
I could have done a reclean and got the stairs to a level that is acceptable but know for a fact that the bedroom will not come as clean as the customer thinks it should.
When i went to see the job the stairs were covered up as they were being painted so I didnt realise how dirty they were.
As has been said its all about communiction and telling the client what the best is they can expect and on this occasion I should have done that better.that said I thought the carpet would be a doddle but as I cleaned it and got soil out the stains/marks seemed to appear from nowhere.they were just patches that looked like grease marks and I couldn't shift them.
Anyway I will put this down to experience and learn from it,I have only been full time now for a month and still learning how to deal with the public in a confident way.
With regards to Creightons comments he is right about the way Asians are in dealing with things,but at present I would say that asians are about 30% of my client base so I cant complain about them.
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if you do your best then you can do no more!! dont stress about it and keep your money, because you have earned it. Maybe hone your under promise / over deliver sales pitch? and bobs yer uncle in future - as long as you always DO your best!!!
Stu
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Wayne
I cannot find anywhere in your posts what you actually used (cleaning fluids) to clean the carpet.
Maybe for those tough parts you were perhaps not using the most appropriate stuff.
It would have been good for your learning curve to actually detail what you did and maybe the response would have been to go back and try this or that.
At this point I would not be giving back the money. In fact, if the carpets were as bad as you say then I would not be giving money back at all. If people treat their homes like pig styles then surely they must realise themselves they aint going to come up like a shiny new pin - common sense.
I have had customers say to me "I know they wont come up new - just try your best" - thats common sense.
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Wayne it could also be that other carept cleaners are giving these sort of clients a miss mate and your getting the poor work maybe?
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Wayne
I cannot find anywhere in your posts what you actually used (cleaning fluids) to clean the carpet.
Maybe for those tough parts you were perhaps not using the most appropriate stuff.
It would have been good for your learning curve to actually detail what you did and maybe the response would have been to go back and try this or that.
At this point I would not be giving back the money. In fact, if the carpets were as bad as you say then I would not be giving money back at all. If people treat their homes like pig styles then surely they must realise themselves they aint going to come up like a shiny new pin - common sense.
I have had customers say to me "I know they wont come up new - just try your best" - thats common sense.
Hi Joe
I tried various things on the bedroom carpet after the grease stains became apparent.I used Power Burst and found they wouldn't budge,then had a go with Ultra Pac and various stain/spotting agents that I have.Nothing would move them,we are talking about small marks really about the size of 10p peice.
I have since bought some Citra Boost and hope that this will help on such jobs.Can you suggest anything else you think might help?The stairs were really dirty with just general dirt and these were fine apart from a couple of steps at the top were I admit I could have done better having viewed them again
Thanks
Wayne
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are they indain or pakistani ?
I bet there the 2nd then in that case I would give nothing back as they are TRYING on , I will not go to no matter how predj it may seem to a Pak house unless there on the system or is a reco from a good source and even then im really hard on them with in the 1st call.
Lots of reason for this but all i Will say: Ive freinds from both countries and the paks even admitt that if they can get an angle to get sumat cheaper thay will go for it big time !!
Just checked and we have 6 on the system and they are born in the uk and dont live with all there family ( 72 ish ;D ) in the same house i.e westernised.
I may sound a bit rude but the only time ive ever ad cleaning issues in the past has been with pak folk and not so long ago it nearlly came to blows from Reco
, yet again over money trying to get an extra discount !!!
There english is great when needed !!!!!!!!!!!!! FACT !!!!!!!!!!!!
Be wise here you have had some great passive ways to deal with this situation, my ans is wrong really if your looking to create a good rap with these folk as they all talk to each other and they own prob 80% of all the terace house in England ;D
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Hi Joe
I tried various things on the bedroom carpet after the grease stains became apparent.I used Power Burst and found they wouldn't budge,then had a go with Ultra Pac and various stain/spotting agents that I have.Nothing would move them,we are talking about small marks really about the size of 10p peice.
I have since bought some Citra Boost and hope that this will help on such jobs.Can you suggest anything else you think might help?The stairs were really dirty with just general dirt and these were fine apart from a couple of steps at the top were I admit I could have done better having viewed them again
Thanks
Wayne
Hi Wayne.
Starting with powerburst then UR you are pushing the PH up each application (dependent on solution mix) Did you rinse between treatments with fibre and fabric rinse to neutralise before you applied your next spotter? This is important. I have also had good results using prochems neutral spotter and it would be my first stop, also been increasingly impressed with microsplitters and fusion8 mixed at 40-1 for spotting. Difficult to use solvents like solvall or solvex once a stain is wet but citus gel has worked for me often on greasy marks once you flush other agents out. A large part of spot & stain removal is patience and being systematic, allowing spotters suficient time to work. I'm not suggesting you are rushing but I used to go like there was a fire under me when there was really no need and sad to say there is no holy grail so try and keep time on your side when booking your work. If a £60 job takes a bit longer than you think it should don't worry, take your time and do your best work.
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Creighton & Wayne,
I'm genuinely not being 'politically correct' here but your comments about 'asians' are totally out of order and unacceptable. you can't brand a whole continent of people in that way! I do a lot of work for asian people and they are usually polite, grateful and respectful of our expertise.
In fact I did an E.O.T for an Asian Doctor last week and received a £20 tip!
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David I dont think anything I said about asians was oit of order,I merely said that from my experience every job I have done for an asian customer so far, bar one this week,they have haggled and tried to knock me down on price even though I consider my prices to give excellent value for mone, thats what I implied in my reply to Creighton.I dont get that attitude from any others be they whites,blacks,french,poles whatever.
I'm not racist at all.and I suppose its part of their culture to haggle on prices.Thats all I said and I cant find anything wrong with that.
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Of all the customers I have had, its usually the asians that want to haggle and I dont like that because I give the price I want to do the job well.
Last week I did a quote (actual visit) and gave an inflated price to the asian lady knowing OI would be asked to reduce.
She called to book but asked could I reduce my price (by £27 I think it was).
I accepted there knock down price because it was within the range that would be acceptable to me - actually it was £20 above the min I would go - so this time I was the winner.
Winner until she actually cancelled, explaining they are going to put laminate in the 4 bedrooms (to match the downstairs) due to her husband suffering from allergies. I did explain that wooden floors are not the solution for his allergies, in fact carpets are better because they trap the allergies etc but need washing out periodically. She took on board the info but her husband had spoken so that was sealed.
Ah well!
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Evening my old cockers, just had a bottle and half of wine, a bit merry so please excuse any abruptness .Now I know we keep talking about what cleaning solutions we should or shouldn’t be using, but what kind of carpet is it .We all know synthetics clean really well, but if the bugger is a wool or wool mix the stains are difficult or impossible to remove.Wayne,did the carpet smell like a wet dog as you were cleaning it. Let’s forget about where our customers are from for a second, at the end of the day if they are unhappy with your service make sure you have the right answers to their questions, and just get on building your business and making a living.
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david once again you are taking what someone has said and using it totally out of context in order to start an online argument (what is your problem) what part of the phrase "all my experience" do'nt you understand, it means that in" my experience" the ones i have dealt with have acted as described or did you think i was talking about the total asian population of britain and the bit at the end where i said "no i'm not racist just realise that their ways are totally different to ours" was my way of saying to others i do understand their ways and their culture and i am not a racist but i choose not work for them because of the way the ones i have dealt with in the past have tried to shaft me . i suspect most people reading the post would not have thought "my god i'm offended this guys a real racist and should not be allowed to say things like that".
i am glad that your experiences with them have been positive but dont turn my comments into something they are not, what i said was totally acceptable and you seem to be the only one who sees something more sinister in them so grow up eh !.
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David I dont think anything I said about asians was oit of order,I merely said that from my experience every job I have done for an asian customer so far, bar one this week,they have haggled and tried to knock me down on price even though I consider my prices to give excellent value for mone, thats what I implied in my reply to Creighton.I dont get that attitude from any others be they whites,blacks,french,poles whatever.
I'm not racist at all.and I suppose its part of their culture to haggle on prices.Thats all I said and I cant find anything wrong with that.
It is not Asians culture to haggle on prices .... as such.... It is thier culture that you do not refuse a reasonable request , or say "no" if you do this then you risk losing "face". The way to deal with asians in a business situation is to remember that they too cannot say "no" to a reasonable rquest. here is an example.
Jason ,,,, to clean your lounge, hall stairs and landing carpets will be £99.
Ajit,,,,,, Yes Jason, can you do you it for £50 ?
Jason ,,,,, Yes Ajit , what I can do is an excellent job , and your wilton rug bought from the market for only£90, if you pay cash when I finish. Do you want me to come on Tues or weds?
Ajit Ok weds .
This works every time.