Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: kate1 on September 06, 2010, 09:45:20 pm
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Guys
Ive been talking to our developer about setting up a co operative site.
Where we get ourselves on top of google and it works on postcode based.
Search or tags will be window cleaning, thats ok for us because its our industry. We can sort that.
But what I was wondering in the name of research, how would you all feel if we set up something where by you are all part of a co operative - where we base jobs on postcodes? So its national contracts.
Acacia pulls up alot of stuff on wheelie bin cleaning, we get enquiries about " can you clean my bin"? oops no were a software house, Im just doing a bit of research really?
Would you like to be part of a co operative, where we get enquiries and farm things out?
Look forward to replies.
Just see a bit of a gap here
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window washers is a bit like this, but what cost and what post code do u get, ie do i get all pl or just pl26 or can u buy extra post code around you, as i would be intrested
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seems gud idea id be interestd indeed ;D ;D
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Thanks for that Darren
It would prob have to work by postcode.
But by being a co operative it would open you guys up to national contracts
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would you run it as £x per post code or block of post codes, as like where i live pl covers a very large area where as in london it might be a small area
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Hi Kate
I would be up for this depending on the set up.
cheers
john
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Looking to you guys for ideas, we can do the tech side of things thats no problem at all.
Because Acacia gets so many enquires about us doing bin cleaning, thats because were up on the ranks.
But.....
If we were to set up something to create enquires and pass them onto you?????
We can only do stuff based on what you guys think
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its easy kate u just sell the post codes and any jobs taht come in for that area go to the person who owns the post coded and if its a national contract u get the sites in your area.
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Its something to think about Darren
Were all open for ideas, how you guys think it would work, let us know
IT side of things is very easy for us.
But you all would work as a co operative
If we get a site up top ranking on google, which is no probs for us with 25 years in the bag.
We can do the technical side of things thats fine.
All I want to know is how you guys think it would work for you???
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i personally would set u a national window company to handle all the national contracts and they just sub the jobs to the areas on a 30 day terms thing and small jobs just in the area leave to the wc to deal with, sort of how the plumbing franshises work ie dial a rod etc
i think the hardest bit would be getting people to join till it was up and running and getting a lot of work, then i think you would have to limit the no in a area,
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Hi Darren
We would have to build a site with choices your looking for
A National contracts
B commercial
C domestic
After that we would have to filter out the jobs.
So anyone that comes on the site would have to select those options.
But at this stage just looking for input,
Got to laugh we get asked about wheelie bin cleaning, when our customers are wheelie bin cleaners, its only because they do searches and we come up - quite funny really
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kate i like your idea its refreshing window cleaners working together in a co-operative nice problem iv got is round here [north west] you would get the poop kicked out of you for going on other peoples patches to do the work are you including life cover insurance?.
iv been trying for some time now to buy work and theres none for sale in my area [bolton] but still i like the idea just put off a bit by the baseball bats.
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the tech side would be the hard part ??? window washers have gaps on the map,too meny subs no 1 to cheek work and price? but tell you what to charge? if done propley could be good for all,post code would not work as if you have 1 bad w/c it could lose a big chain. need area managers then they can price, cheek work and find good w/c to sub ??? ??? ???
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hmm you could run it something like rated people were customer feedback gave you a 5 star rating for the job you did. better your star rating the more people in your area want you, the more work you get.
the price setting would be the tough bit i think.
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Myself
I like all you guys on here
I dont think any of you are rip off merchants, a certain amount of trust has to be involved!
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TWS im really shocked thats the situation
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need to be more than trust if you realy want it to work.
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You HAVE to have trust at some point, otherwise business just dosent progess anywhere.
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if the w/c just cleaned and some1 else priced it, pay on line or dd. custys got looked after(good price/clean) every1 is happy ;D
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TWS im really shocked thats the situation
it is baseball bat first questions later talking to people on here it is hard to believe how all these cave men ended up 1 in window cleaning 2 window cleaning round here.
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area managers need trust with you and w/c need trust with a/m ;D too meny small cogs dont work well
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There would be no area managers in any form at all.
On our techinical side it would be a database,
We advertise ourselves as a database of companies that are prepared to undertake work on a national basis
For example
Hilton Hotels
Ibis
Preimer
Holiday Inns
BMW showrooms
Vauxhall
Being a data company,it would be so easy for us to do. But...... we would have to have people that wanted to subscribe...
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There would be no area managers in any form at all.
On our techinical side it would be a database,
We advertise ourselves as a database of companies that are prepared to undertake work on a national basis
For example
Hilton Hotels
Ibis
Preimer
Holiday Inns
BMW showrooms
Vauxhall
You would only be doing what Peter Jones at Dragons Den is already doing, but we can set it up, being a data company,it would be so easy for us to do. But...... we would have to have people that wanted to subscribe...
But my initial enquires are about how it would work for you guys really?
For me it might be about buying the rights to job enquiries, via your site, in certain postcode areas. There are probably 5 or 6 areas that border where I am based that could be of interest. By postcode area I mean the first part of the postcode e.g. AB12 (probably no such postcode but just using an example).
The next bit would be about exclusivity within an area. To make it pay you might need to sell non-exclusive rights to an area so that you had a number of people subscribing OR charge a lot more for exclusive rights. I already have a similar arrangement with Windowwashers. I pay for a page in a particular town and some surrounding villages with a guarantee that no-one else on his site will cover that area. It's not been spectacular but I do get the occasional enquiry. The work I currently do that I got via the site is worth over £1k a year as I tend to keep most customers. I think that's OK for £49 a year.
Not sure about how it might work with nationals though. I do a little bit of subbing from larger companies and quite a bit from smaller companies. In one case, I've never met the guy I sub from.
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Kate
1/ who would pitch for the jobs, and how would you get a national to deal with you if there wasnt 1 main contractor, with years of experience and expertise and with all the relevent accreditations.
2/ Which of Peter Jones's Businesses uses that model you describe ?
Dave
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Hi
Im only basing this on Acacia, because we get calls "do we clean bins" they just hit on us because we come up, we could do the same with window cleaning. I dont kinow really, just some initial thoughts to be honest.
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The only fair way I can see a system like this working is by having to bid for the work.
There would need to be a website with a database of available jobs (contracts, one offs, regular commercial and domestic).
The work would need to be advertised on the site for a set period of time which would allow window cleaners to assess the work and place a bid or price that they would do the job for.
I presume the cheapest bid would gain the work.
However the website would require constant administration, and this would come at a cost.
So how would this cost be met?
A set administration fee added to the winning bid price which would be met by the customer?
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Your absolutely right AJM
It could potentially work several ways
With regards to national companies, they would want a quote based on all sites.
The only other fair way to possibly do it would be postcodes, whoever is nearest. I suppose you would all have to quote on what the particular building in that area of yours is like.
I was really rather thinking more along the lines of national companies as to one off jobs - that keeps it less complicated. It just gives you more power as a group to quote on national jobs
We would set up a site (really just for national companies)
Just very initial thoughts at the moment
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Also should have added on there, I could actively ring companies anyway as its my job, so I would be promoting the site via the phone also.
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Ok yes I agree that for this purpose it would be simpler to just involve National Contracts.
However it wouldn't take much more work to encompass a larger client base ie. domestic markets etc.
One of the problems I can forsee though with regard to a National Contract is this example.
Window Cleaner X in postcode sw18 has won the contract to service the chain of Tesco supermarkets in his postcode area. He won this contract in his area due to submitting the lowest price.
After 6 months of servicing his contract he has an accident and is unable to work for 2 months.
He is unable to sub this work out due to the low price of the work.
What would happen then?
A National Company would have the capacity to continue to meet their contractual obligations in this scenario. However a sole trader who has won it on a low price which is unattractive to another window cleaner may not.
This could have negative impact on the co-operative and its reputation, could it not?
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See your point
But its national work would be based on a figure - were going to charge X, no need to do a low quote. This is the price, and these stores are cleaned.
You dont quote low, you quote what the building is worth in that area.
We bundle the figures through and send it from the group.
Being price based would make it too complicated, it would have to be postcodes. Nearest to the job, then upto you what you quote. we would only present it as one figure for the whole contract.
With regards to sickness, we go to the next person nearer postcode. You would maybe have like an "on standby"
Its only ideas at the moment and Im sure there will many flaws and questions.
Im sure there would be lots of unforseen stuff.
I dont know how these national contractors work, but Im sure their bills are alot higher, what with marketing, vans, clothing, office space etc etc.
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wrexham area im interested ;D ;D ;D
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Also I think there would have to be a rule in place so not to step on anyones toes. If somebody is doing a national contract already, it has to stay with them, even if there is somebody nearer.
Plus the side if I were actually on the phone, getting information, contract renewal dates etc. We would be able to email/call them near renewal date. So we would be pipelining information for you too.
It would be no good a low quote. It would be have to done to a standard that you think somebody else would be on standby to take the job on should anyone unfortunately fall ill.
Thats why something like this cannot be based on price - it has to be based on networking facilities
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I own the domain name www.national-window-cleaners.co.uk if your interested in using it.....
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Thanks RWC
I would have to ask everybody on here what they would be happy with for a site name
But thats very kind of you
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you could use mine lol cccwindowcleaners.co.uk ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Kate
1/ who would pitch for the jobs, and how would you get a national to deal with you if there wasnt 1 main contractor, with years of experience and expertise and with all the relevent accreditations.
2/ Which of Peter Jones's Businesses uses that model you describe ?
Dave
Agree ;)
Also I said it before abd i will say it again - it sounds fine in principle but in practice this idea wont work I am afraid. Too many ifs and buts in the business model.
See your point
But its national work would be based on a figure - were going to charge X, no need to do a low quote. This is the price, and these stores are cleaned.
You dont quote low, you quote what the building is worth in that area.
We bundle the figures through and send it from the group.
Being price based would make it too complicated, it would have to be postcodes. Nearest to the job, then upto you what you quote. we would only present it as one figure for the whole contract.
With regards to sickness, we go to the next person nearer postcode. You would maybe have like an "on standby"
Its only ideas at the moment and Im sure there will many flaws and questions.
Im sure there would be lots of unforseen stuff.
I dont know how these national contractors work, but Im sure their bills are alot higher, what with marketing, vans, clothing, office space etc etc.
See your point
But its national work would be based on a figure - were going to charge X, no need to do a low quote. This is the price, and these stores are cleaned.
You dont quote low, you quote what the building is worth in that area.
Then how the hell do hope to compete with the existing contractors? Price is one of the main things in bidding for these jobs, as Dave touched on the companies ability, resources to carry out a contract and relevent experience are all other factors.
I dont know how these national contractors work, but Im sure their bills are alot higher, what with marketing, vans, clothing, office space etc etc.
There is another problem - You don't actually know how it works you are only guessing. I suggest you do (a) some market research (b) Research how these nationals operate and then reassess your idea. Also consider the practicalities of what you are suggesting then come up with a decent business plan if you really think the idea is a goer. Then and only then if it all checks out and you are confident that you have been through the idea with a fine tooth comb, understand how the opposition operate, the potential pitfuls etc put the plan into action. I guess I am saying it is no good saying that you don't know or are not sure you need to have those answers especially if you want to deal with national chains etc ;)
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WCE
Like I have said, its ONLY an idea, thats all, nothing more.
The only thing im doing here is asking for initial interest, absolutely nothing more than that. If theres no interest, theres no point in moving anything forward or looking any deeper
Im in research for a job, so its highly unlikely that I would even consider entering into anything whatsoever without looking into it.
All Im doing is asking what people think.
IF it were to go any further, then would come health and safety issues and all the relevant documentation and qualifications.
As far as it wont work - im afraid it seems as its already happening
http://www.nationalwindowcleaning.co.uk/
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WCE
Like I have said, its ONLY an idea, thats all, nothing more.
The only thing im doing here is asking for initial interest, absolutely nothing more than that. If theres no interest, theres no point in moving anything forward or looking any deeper
Im in research for a job, so its highly unlikely that I would even consider entering into anything whatsoever without looking into it.
All Im doing is asking what people think.
IF it were to go any further, then would come health and safety issues and all the relevant documentation and qualifications.
As far as it wont work - im afraid it seems as its already happening
http://www.nationalwindowcleaning.co.uk/
Laddersfree don't operate the model you suggest though. I know Justin and the team very well. They charge a membership fee for a start. They also keep hold of the work they have got and tell you the prices - They certainly don't hold out for the best prices. More importantly they also have full time office staff to take care of the admin side and secure the contracts in the first place. They don't do the national chains you describe for a reason, there work tends to target smaller chains and also there not really that keen on one oofs It is basically run as a subcontract business with a members directory and not really a cooperative as you have suggested. Trust me I know them VERY well and am aware of how they run their business and how they do it, the pitfuls and advantages of their operation and the way they operate is nothing like you suggest. I am not trying to offend you or put you down just talking from experience. The idea sounds fine in principle but there are too many unanswered questions about putting it into practice and elements that using the model suggested would take things outside of your control. It only takes one bad apple. If you think you can get it to work then I wish you the best of luck but my experience tells me there is a lot of work needed in the model if you are to be successful and in this moment in time I see more pitfuls than anything else.
Pete