Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike55 on August 29, 2010, 10:49:20 am
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Right I have decided it's time to bring WFP into my round and would appreciate some advice regarding setup.
After doing a bit of research I think a trolley system would be the best for me at the moment with a view to switching to a van mount when the time is right. I currently have around 160 properties (been going around 9 months now) which some would defo be more suited to WFP.
So WFP...I really need some advice as to how to get setup. Again from research I believe I would need a trolley and a DI vessel to make the water. So am I right in saying the water comes from the mains, passes through a DI vessel which contains resin to purify the water, and straight into 25l-50l barrels (if using a trolley) or straight into a tank if using a van mount? The water is then pumped up the pole and so I would need a pump, a battery, and a digital flow controller.
As you can see I am a novice with WFP and could really do with a bit of advice.
DAZMOND - hopefully you will read this post as I know you have recently switched over to a trolley system and are chuffed to bits. Good on you. If you have any advice for me I'd really appreciate your help with getting setup.
Cheers, Mike
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I would go straight to van mount, I had trolley for a year........
Hindsight is a great thing........
Mr B
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first off mike get yourself a tds meter and check the tds of your water.if its over 100tds then i think you d be better getting a RO UNIT.
if its between 35-80tds out of your tap i would get 2 DI VESSELS(11L)and have them goin in tandem.yes you are correct just tap/di/barrel!very simple and easy!!
i have 12 barrels in van (300L)and just hook up hose/di and hey presto!pure water!takes about 50mins to fill up.
i have the 50L TROLLEY from pure freedom and im so glad i didnt get the 25L version as im changing barrels less often.i also have 30m of extension hose so im not moving the trolley as much and i leave it in the van and it doubles as a mini van mount for some stand alone accounts
the trolley is ideal for a lot of my work as its very compact with parking issues.the trolley is a fantastic piece of kit.if your work is very scattered and big jobs with easy access i would say go straight to van mount.
hope this helps.i better get off here my missus wants me to take her to ikea!! ::) ::) ;D ;D
regards
dazmond
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do it properly the first time, 250-400l tank for 1 operator mounted in the van
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what van u got
go van mounted dont bother with a trolly
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Ford Escort 55D van. I think the payloads on these are about 475kg.
One other thing, I live in a 300 ppm area but have been told I only need DI system due to the size of my round. Am I correct in saying that RO is suited to bigger rounds only?
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no the ro is for the tds of your water u need a ro and tank, i would run with 250 tank in you escort and a flow control
who told you ro is only for big rounds
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Yes you will need an RO Mike.
300ppm water will cost you a fortune in resin, the Ro will work out much cheaper in the long run.
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I spoke to someone from Aquafactors (formerly tuckerpoles I believe) who said I would only need DI resin system. I must admit I thougt that DI was a polishing resin and not designed to purify hard water (from my limited research).
He suggested that the savings made from an RO system would be minimal compared to a DI system and wasn't really worth getting an RO.
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doesnt know what he is talking about
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He may or may not of had his reasons for saying that. ???
Resin alone will reduce 300ppm water to 0ppm but at a guess from an 11ltr Di Vessel you will probably only produce about 1500 to 2000 ltrs of water before it will need changing.
And at about £40 per 11ltr resin change, do the maths.
I guarantee you although an RO will be more expensive to purchase initially, in the long run with the water of 300ppm you have it will be the cheapest option.
No bull, just honest advice.
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Is it worh using a DI vessel first and switching to RO once my round becomes bigger?
That way I get an intro to WFP without having the spend too much. I won't need to use a great deal of water initially as I don't have a full round.
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Yes you can do it that way if you wish. The di vessel can still be used to polish water to 0ppm if you later decide to produce more water and buy an RO.
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Might be the easiest way to get 'up and running' as it were.
My understanding is that it will cost about £80 a month in resin if DI only.
What is the running costs if using RO?
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£80 a month based on a full round that is...
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use this link to work it out
http://www.cleantech.co.uk/tdscalc.htm
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If you change the pre-filters every 6 months cost about £15
Ro membranes should last a couple of years cost around £30-£40 per membrane, bigger 4040 Ro's are much more expensive though.
If you are on a water meter it can be quite expensive as an RO can produce around 50% to 75% waste water, depending how efficient it is.
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is it higher your tds is the more waste u make?
ie 300 tds = 50% waste
100 tds 25% waste?
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I've just started so it's new to me too. I'm in Essex and my ppm is huge. I bought a system from pure freedom and I have to say they are pretty good. I have had a few problems with it but they have done their best to solve them. To get my tds to 0, I just bought an extra di unit for 30 sqid..ish which took it from from 16 ppm to 0. I am a happy boy.
Pete
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Hi Pete. What sort of system did you get and are you ro or di setup?
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Darren ro systems are usually quoted in a percentage figure of its efficiency at removing impurities. This is usually between 95% and 98%. So if your water going in was 300ppm you should expect it to come out at between 6-15ppm. Then into your DI to bring it to 0ppm.
As far as im aware to reduce waste on a normal ro system another membrane is added which is fed from the waste of the first membrane. Thats how my one works anyway, some systems have 2 or 3 membranes for this purpose,good water pressure helps aswell.
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mike
one of these coupled with the resin canister will do you nicely comes ready assembled to 8)
http://www.purefreedom.co.uk/pure-freedom-compact-reverse-osmosis-systems-p-291.html
just get an ibc or big water butts
if you go down the trolly or backpack route, its easy enough to change to a van mount
if you need to
mike
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So with an ro system the mains water passes through the ro system, then through the di cannister then stored in a tank/ waterbut? I don't have a garage at the mo so could I still do this?
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yes mike if you have a shed or outhouse to protect the ro from the frost
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think I'm going down the di route for now and will add ro later. Pure freedom will be my port of call me thinks.
Thanks to all that have given me advice. I may be back for more later regarding setup and which brush/pole to use.
Cheers
Mike
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my storage tank ibc sit outside all year,my ro stays out side most of the year in a garden box,but in the winter it come in to the down stairs toilet and sits there,pipes run out the window,sorted.
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my storage tank ibc sit outside all year,my ro stays out side most of the year in a garden box,but in the winter it come in to the down stairs toilet and sits there,pipes run out the window,sorted.
What do you do with your transfer pump in the winter?
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Ford Escort 55D van. I think the payloads on these are about 475kg.
One other thing, I live in a 300 ppm area but have been told I only need DI system due to the size of my round. Am I correct in saying that RO is suited to bigger rounds only?
Although some do it, I don't think an Escort really has the payload to cope with doing WFP in earnest. Probably OK to get a few barrels and a trolley or backpack in to cover upstairs windows but not enough (IMO) if you want to get larger sized work.
All IMO of course. Some may disagree.
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my storage tank ibc sit outside all year,my ro stays out side most of the year in a garden box,but in the winter it come in to the down stairs toilet and sits there,pipes run out the window,sorted.
What do you do with your transfer pump in the winter?
transfer pump sits in the bottom of the ibc,and has done for 2years. :o :o :o :o
if it freezes then i have tap fitted at bottom of ibc so i then fill me 25ltr barrels.
when it was really cold(big freeze)again i just made my water into the 25ltr barrels in the down stairs toilet.
must admint that the toilet is out of action all winter.
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Hi
Just say i agree with most of what has been said. RO is to make high ppm water pure in the most cost effective manner. this does not have to cost a fortune. As has been said an ro, ibc tank and transfer pump can be bought for under 300. I use a merlin these are readily available.
You will recoup this money very quickly as resin is very expensive, it is also a hassle filling the vessel which you will quickly get fedup with the amount of times you will have to do it.
As regards a van mount i would say in most cases you are better off, but a friend of mine has terraced houses and finds wheeling the trolley down the entry is easier than pulling hoses round, especially with parking issues.
van mount also doesnt have to be proffesionally system, just by a tank and pump make sure you secure it well though.
one thing is you will have to change the van as the round builds, 250 will not last past the morning so you will need to go home for lunch and fill up. I deally you need 500 or 600 litres perhaps even 800-1000 but you need a transit or vivaro for that.
all of this has been said but just to confirm it
cheers
john
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think I'm going down the di route for now and will add ro later. Pure freedom will be my port of call me thinks.
Thanks to all that have given me advice. I may be back for more later regarding setup and which brush/pole to use.
Cheers
Mike
Don't expect it to cost you £80 a month in resin like you said on a previous post.
At 300 TDS, you won't even get 2,000 litres for a (£70ish) bag of resin. I can get through 2,000 litres in a week never mind a month.
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i use a 350 GPD with a booster pump and resin vessel into a holding tank at home, the problem i have is that i use more water than i produce! it is very slow and i have the pump going 24 hours a day, i change the pre filters and resin every 2.5 months
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how do you guys use so much water?i had my best day ever on friday and that inclu a fascia clean(that i cleaned with pure!).a little over 225L all day!i do trad the odd downstairs windows though.
the most ive used was 300L AND THAT WAS ON MY FIRST DAY 9PM-8PM!(first cleans!).i use a flowcontroller set on 40-60 and use 5mm hose and a pole tap.
250-300L A DAY is enough for me.i dont wash doors down though as a lot of custies dont like it.in fact im using less now that first and second cleans are out of the way!!
dazmond
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That's what I thought Dazmond (or what I was told my the tucker rep).... 300L a day maximum for a full time window cleaner. Also said only worth getting a DI setup. That's why I thought I would get away with DI only for now.
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i use about 400 ltrs a day, but i use pure on everything.
all windows, top and bottom all doors gutters/ fascias con roofs etc.
i have a 500 ltr tank and have never run out, but have come close a few times.
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Mike 55 if you live near aquafactors they sell purewater.
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how do you guys use so much water?i had my best day ever on friday and that inclu a fascia clean(that i cleaned with pure!).a little over 225L all day!i do trad the odd downstairs windows though.
the most ive used was 300L AND THAT WAS ON MY FIRST DAY 9PM-8PM!(first cleans!).i use a flowcontroller set on 40-60 and use 5mm hose and a pole tap.
250-300L A DAY is enough for me.i dont wash doors down though as a lot of custies dont like it.in fact im using less now that first and second cleans are out of the way!!
dazmond
I like to work with a fairly decent flow rate as I feel (rightly or wrongly) that it gives a better likelihood of the job being OK. Also, if I have a decent flow, I feel more able to work faster. I've tried lower flow rates and I found mysaelf slowing down as I felt uncertain of the quality.
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if you are starting out wfp and after kit then def give john hewitts site a butchers - hes got some good kit at very good prices.
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http://www.johnhewitt.com/wc.htm
I take it this is the one? Looks like good value has anyone used this at all?