Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: james roffey on August 24, 2010, 05:43:57 pm
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Did my first bonnet clean today a large church hall with low profile carpet,thought i would experiment a bit with the rotary and cleaning solutions, I cleaned one half with M power at 80/1 and hot clear water in ringer bucket,and the other half with Fusion clean 25/1 in prespray and ringer bucket
First gave it a good vac north/south /east and west then presprayed and agitated with Envirodri with the stiffer white brushes, then bonnet to finish did the hall in four sections so the prespray was still wet when i came to bonnet.
The results were very good on both, hard to tell which was better, the Fusion clean had a reallty nice smell but visually they both gave good results, i spoke to Nick who mentioned soil retardancy qualities of Fusion clean, but have to balance this with the amount of chemical used, M Power was more economical and only had to use it in the prespray to get good results, overal i was shocked at how good the bonnet was at removing stains even oily tar, i did the same carpet last year with my Ninja and was on my hands and knees with the solvent but did not bother this time, the envirodri hepled i think.
The only down side was getting the hang of the Rotary when it goes left to right its easy but when it goes right to left it really pushes against you and is hard work, still i got the job done much quicker than the last time i did this carpet with HWE, i had the caretaker watching me dont know what he made of it all i did my best to look like i was in control but felt like it was going to drag me out of the door at any moment :-[
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You will soon get the hang of it james,one handed soon ;)
Like the fusion clean myself as its the nice smell and also the foaming solution so helps to know where you have spraye if you get to far infront of yourself.. ;D
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Sounds like a great job. I use both methods you described but when I use M-Power, I also add it to the pad bucket at 100:1. I find it gives a slightly improved finish over using it just in the pre-spray & just water in the bucket.
I find Fusion Clean is better on carpets that may have more non-natural soil in them (gum, tar, oils, etc) and M-Power is better as an Enzyme replacement, on carpets where the soil is mainly of an organic nature.
Forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs Jim, but with the Rotary.... a light down pressure on the handle makes it go left and a light upwards pressure makes it go right. Again, sorry if that's old hat to you; just couldn't tell from your post. I remember the first time I used a rotary, I struggled to drag it left and right and lost about 6lbs in the process! ;D I then googled 'how to use a rotary' and learned the "Raise=Right, Lower=Left" trick. A revelation!
As you said, agitation is a massive factor in getting good results with a rotary. There's nowt better than an Envirodri. I also use the 'Restore Brush' from Dry Fusion on my machine and that also gives pretty phenomenal results.
Cheers,
Dave.
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David,
I'm not sure if you use the DF machine and others.
I personally feel it is one of the best balanced machines out there.
James,
If it is dragging it may be that the carpet is drying out too quickly (the pre-spray I mean).
Garry
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No problem David i do understand the method though, but when i push the handle up to go left it pushes towards me as well as going in the direction i want it to i had to really lean my body into it to stop it , going in the opposite direction is easy it drifts and does not pulll or push toward me, hope this makes sense.
Gary i did this throughout the day so dont think it is this, it's difficult to explain.
instead of it going side to side on lifting and pushing the handle
It pushed in my direction also when only moving right to left
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Hi James
I did a large bonnett job today using my Dry 60 system, which is basically the same equipment which you have with my own chemical mix.
I grew up with rotaries, first started using them when I was about 15.
People were watching a I cleaned using one hand , it's that easy you just have to relax and let the machine do the work.
Cheers
Doug
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Same here with a small crowd watching and very small they were too as it was an infants nursery ;D
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Well done, James.
We did a large job in a school yesterday. The first half was a modern classroom block with low profile light'ish blue carpets, ideal for LM. Using Rotobrite II, a red pad, and a suitably dunked and rung out pad cleaned an area and it looked ok so left it to dry.
The trouble was that by the time you'd Flexi5'd the area, pre-sprayed it, red padded it and then bonneted it you might just as well have pre-sprayed it and cleaned it with the TM. But, to be fair the end result looked the same so we could have LM'd at least the classrooms and got away with it.
The second half of the job was in an older building with much dirtier carpets that to me weren't suited to LM and by the prescribed method would have taken forever, whereas the TM got really old, really dirt carpet super clean without any fuss.
I've always believed that as professionals we are supposed to be equipped with the means to clean any carpet regardless of the condition we find it in and I think this case was a perfect case in point.
Simon
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David,
I'm not sure if you use the DF machine and others.
I personally feel it is one of the best balanced machines out there.
James,
If it is dragging it may be that the carpet is drying out too quickly (the pre-spray I mean).
Garry
Hi Garry,
I have 2 x Dry Fusion Machines (one is for sale in the for sale section here!) and 1 x standard 200rpm Ruffo rotary. The Ruffo is lighter and slightly slower RPM (Dry Fusion runs at 290rpm) and I tend to use it when using 'Fusion Clean' and 'M-Power' as they don't require the heat.
I do agree though, the DF machine is very nicely balanced and easy to control. It could be a tad lighter for getting up stairs though! ;D
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James, try lowring the handle, i do this and it handles much better,
i usually rest it near to my manhood(no jokes, just saying which area,it dont give me a thrill) ;D
I am 5'10 so adjust to suit,, to high and it can feel out of control.
Andrew
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James first bonnet clean today
your playing up mate :P
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I have 46000sq ft to clean will be using rotobrite with d/f pads downside it costs more than nemesis but priced it into job.Everyone has their chosen chemical/method but at the end of the day it's results that count as long as the customer is happy
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James first bonnet clean today
your playing up mate :P
??? yes my first ever
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Steve,
Post some pictures, will you. It would be really good if someone posted a set of pictures of the step-by-step process and the end result. Don't LM'ers have cameras? ;)
Simon
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Simon to be honest i would not know how to post pictures on here, but better than a picture why dont we get together next time your working in southampton. As i am only across the road from the docks in southampton. This way i can do the bonnet work you can take some pictures of me and post them on here ;)
I can provide a copy of my insurance/ treatment risk, hard hat, high viz ,saftey shoes ect you sort out the security pass for me and i will be there. and of course some ££££
I should also point out i use a porty lm or dry foam depending on the customers needs and the job in hand.
I certainly do not claim to be any expert in anything but always try my best to get good results.
infact the only reason i have been in this game for so long is every time i drive past the job centre nothing in the window takes me fancy ;D
I also respect the fact i would be working under your name so i would endevour to provide the best possible results regards steve.
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Did my first bonnet clean today a large church hall with low profile carpet,thought i would experiment a bit with the rotary and cleaning solutions, I cleaned one half with M power at 80/1 and hot clear water in ringer bucket,and the other half with Fusion clean 25/1 in prespray and ringer bucket
First gave it a good vac north/south /east and west then presprayed and agitated with Envirodri with the stiffer white brushes, then bonnet to finish did the hall in four sections so the prespray was still wet when i came to bonnet.
The results were very good on both, hard to tell which was better, the Fusion clean had a reallty nice smell but visually they both gave good results, i spoke to Nick who mentioned soil retardancy qualities of Fusion clean, but have to balance this with the amount of chemical used, M Power was more economical and only had to use it in the prespray to get good results, overal i was shocked at how good the bonnet was at removing stains even oily tar, i did the same carpet last year with my Ninja and was on my hands and knees with the solvent but did not bother this time, the envirodri hepled i think.
The only down side was getting the hang of the Rotary when it goes left to right its easy but when it goes right to left it really pushes against you and is hard work, still i got the job done much quicker than the last time i did this carpet with HWE, i had the caretaker watching me dont know what he made of it all i did my best to look like i was in control but felt like it was going to drag me out of the door at any moment :-[
Top man Dave thought that was an excellent post ;)
Just what i needed to hear, got job today for hotel that want ballroom cleaning every 6-8 weeks and i gave them a price for initial clean, then price for interim cleaning using bonneting system.
Ive never done bonneting before but well used to machine but interested to hear what chemicals you used and the difference you found. Only diffenece with this job is the carpet is not low profile just regular carpet.
I have an RX20 but dont have the accesory for bonneting but I do have a Numatic which will hopefully do the job.
best of luck with the bonneting
Brendan.
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The first time I used a rotary I was in heaven as previous to that we have the old fashion floor buffers that were attached to broom handles ::) Back in the day as a young Guardsman, never thought that I'd use them as I do now for cleaning carpets :o
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the offer.
We can't use LM on cruise ships and as we have to stick to the specification and so any demonstration would be completely out of context.
I'm far more interested in it in commercial locations on low profile carpets etc.
Thanks anyway.
Simon
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No problem. simon out of curiosity why cant you use lm on cruise ships?
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No problem. simon out of curiosity why cant you use lm on cruise ships?
I presume because Simon told them it was crap. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Couple of pics from bonnet cleaning job for Simon
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pads when finished
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Steve,
Because the specification wouldn't be met if we did it that way.
Simon
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Steve (Top Gunn)
Thanks for the pics. I was hoping for ones that show how you get from A to B and not just before and after pics. Fussy git, I know.
Simon
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Have you seen the d/f video
http://www.dryfusionuk.com/video.html
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I hope he doesn't mind me posting it (it's in the public domain on youtube so hopefully not!) but I've always thought Garry B's video showing DF is one of the best around;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZX-vhqFj2o
Dave.
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Thanks for the kind words David.
Unfortunately I had a computer virus attack a while ago and lost the original footage (file got corrupted).
I've got the latest ones on the Youtube channel down to a couple of minutes now but need some new raw material to work with.
Garry.
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Garry,
Very impressive.
If you were going to do the same area with a conventional padding system, and not the DF system, how would you go about it?
As you're probably aware I'm on a learning curve with this process but have an office to do next week 300 sq yds of very dirty (dusty) tiles which would be an ideal jobs to learn a bit more. Any tips would be much appreciated.
Simon
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Jim
What sort of rate metres per hour wise do you reckon it worked out. I'm just doing a quote where the maintenance will be lm and would be interested to know as I've not done it before.
Cheers
Simon
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Simon,
If you were going to do the same area with a conventional padding system, and not the DF system, how would you go about it?
Not much differnet to the Dry Fusion (DF) video. Looking at that again I would say I had the pads slightly too wet for that type of stain (see the very light coloured "trail" across the carpet.
Having the heater probably allows more leeway as far as drying goes. The DF chemicals are quick drying (which can sometimes dry too quickly in hot conditions).
If your tiles are dusty then dry vacuuming is a must. We always use the pilelifter unless the offices are cramped. We use a Sebo as an alternative.
Before I had DF I played around with One Step (micro splitter) as a pre spray and a ploypropylene scrubbing brush to agitate with. The pads were soaked in clean water and well rung out in the mop bucket (until you can hardly get another drop out of them). They were then used as the "rinse" phase.
The key is not to overwet. It's easy to put a bit more prespray down but very difficult if you have put too much down.
Don't keep the new pad on the same spot (or you will have a circular wick back mark the next day). Spead the moisture over about ten square metres to distribute it evenly in a kind of figure of eight movement. You then do the detailed north / south, east / west cleaning. Depending on soilage, turn your pad over after about fifteen square metres, so that you use both "clean" sides.
Soiled pads NEVER go back into the mop bucket. If people are using micro splitters, I believe they have a second mop bucket to wash most of the soil out before re-wetting the pads.
Go over the area with a dry pad (as you would after HWE).
Wherever I can, I use a turbo dryer as well (even with DF).
Sorry it's a bit vague but without seeing the offices in question, I cannot be more specific.
Garry
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Garry, more flattery for you; that video was instrumental in my choosing to go the Dry Fusion route and buy the machine. I was to'ing and fro'ing between DF and Thermadry and when I watched that vid of yours a couple of times I was sold!
For anyone interested in Rotary cleaning (DF or otherwise), here's my technique that I've honed (I made all the usual mistakes in the early days). This gives me good, consistant results in commercial & domestic applications;
1. Thorough Pre-Vac (there's no argument that it's optional in rotary cleaning),
2. Pre-Treat any spots that I think the cleaning process may need help with (ie.. those requiring solvent treatment etc). Any that needed a lot of work, I will use a small CFR spotter to extract rinse them (see, I'm not adverse to water extraction! Rare though).
2. Light to medium pre-spray with a solution that is powerful but doesn't need rinsing. I use either M-Power, Fusion Clean, or Activator (if doing Dry Fusion process).
3. Five minutes dwell prior to agitation. (Good time to get the machine out of the van).
4. Thorough N/S/E/W agitation using either DF Restore Brush (synthetic or low wool mix) or a HOST CRB machine, using gold brushes (wool or thick cut pile). I never rush this stage; it's the real cleaning stage, especially with Rotary Cleaning. The spot areas may get some extra pre-spray and extra brushing. If you don't have a CRB machine, then the XR Grey Pad (from SolutionUK) on your rotary is the next best thing in my opinio. Almost as effective.
5. Mix up HOT solution in the bucket and put in the first pad. Leave in for 2 mins then thoroughly wring out.
6. Place on carpet, in an open area that I am going to be able to manouvre around quickly. Obviously most of the solution is going to leave the pad in the first few seconds of action, so it is VERY important to move quickly with the rotary and spread out the solution evenly.
7. Lower the machine onto the pad and as above, move quickly to spread the solution. I only ever work on an area of 20m2 at a time, with 1 pad. Work back over the area, evenly working the solution.
8. Flip over the pad and go over the same area again. With the DF machine this side of the pad will be hot & dry from the blower so it will greatly help absorb the soil and dry the carpet.
9. Repeat the process for all areas of the carpet.
10. Thorough post-vac. This helps reset the pile and also picks up any loose debris, dirt and loose fibres. (rare).
11. Groom with a brush. Result = lovely clean, fresh, stain-free, stain-blocked, de-odourized carpet.
Cheers,
Dave.
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Thank you for that comprehensive example of bonnet/dryfusion cleaning i pretty much did those things apart from the vacuuming at the end, but the only thing i did not like in the end result was the marks it left on the carpet i did consider vaccing again instead i used a pile brush which was very hard work getting the marks out so i will vac next time, also i did not soak the pads, just dipped them.
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Great Thread..
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david. a couple of questions
no5- why leave it in for 2 mins?
no10- are you dry vaccing a damp carpet?
and i would also swop 3 & 4 I think the dwell time should commence after the prespray has been aggatated fully into the carpet, so it comes into contact with all the soiling.
but your system is a thorough method of cleaning
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We cleaned a Sure Start centre today, all low profile with the exception of the multicoloured rugs that pre - schools love.
As usual we thoroughly vacced with the pilelifters. This impressed the manager so we were on a winner straight away.
We presprayed M power and brushed in with the rotary and poly brush.
This removed 95% of the stains but to be fair the carpets were not that bad.
Any stains were then treated.
We then bonneted with one of us using Rotobrite and the other using Solutions standard microsplitter.
The carpets looked amazing when we had finished so everyone was happy.
If you have never seen or tried low moisture cleaning it is definitely something you should investigate.
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Garry, more flattery for you; that video was instrumental in my choosing to go the Dry Fusion route and buy the machine. I was to'ing and fro'ing between DF and Thermadry and when I watched that vid of yours a couple of times I was sold!
Thanks David.
Any chance of telling Shaun Bradbury and suggesting he sends me a commission cheque? ;D
I cannot mention names here but I was contacted out of the blue by someone in the business about video marketing. They said something very similar to what you said.
My personal opinion (not necessarily the mods etc :D) is that Dry Fusion could do a much better job of marketing the system. Last time I heard however, they had got someone with a marketing degree doing it, so I guess that explains it!
David, I have to disagree regarding post clean vacuuming. We've been caught out a couple of times when a damp carpet has cleaned all the dirt off the pilelifter brush. Result a large brown mark on a lovely clean carpet. We just give it a vigorous brush with the rake instead.
Good clear instructions for anyone unsure of how to do it.
Fenman,
Was there any difference in performance between th Rotobrite and the Microsplitter?
Garry
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Garry,
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.
Simon
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david. a couple of questions
no5- why leave it in for 2 mins?
no10- are you dry vaccing a damp carpet?
and i would also swop 3 & 4 I think the dwell time should commence after the prespray has been aggatated fully into the carpet, so it comes into contact with all the soiling.
but your system is a thorough method of cleaning
Hello Mike,
No 5; I tend to find I get slightly better results from the core rotary stage by leaving the pad in the solution for 2 mins. No science and no evidence though! It does take more wringing this way but the solution seems to spread more evenly.
No 10; Although the above could apply to any rotary method, I was writing it more from a Dry Fusion mindpoint. At that point on Dry Fusion the carpet will be technically still damp but only just. Remember that as Fusioneers we are held to promise a drying time of 30 mins max! .... so if it's not almost dry at this point with DF, somethings gone wrong.
No. 3&4; Fair point. They probably should be the other way around. I tend to find I get the best result from a 'pre-agitation' dwell followed by the main 'post-agitation' dwell. But again that's probably just habit/neurosis more than anything. When you do rotary work the workflow is so quick that we sometimes have to drag things out a bit, in order to get the cuppa with the custy ;D
Cheers,
Dave.