Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Amberleyandmick on September 11, 2005, 11:35:54 am
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ive just been on e-bay and read a add by a cc creating a new cc organisation.. I keep my insurance certificate and training coarses certs in my van . on a few occasions i have been asked to prove insurance( a medical centre for one) but never been asked if i am a member of a national organisation, ncca for instance. As a carpenter i was in the guild of master craftsmen-apart from a nice sticker for van i dont think it did anything for me. We did plan to join ncca at some point in near future- but im now starting to ask myself what the benefits would beand if its worth spending more money. I am getting jobs by reccomendation now and think i am building a good reputation for doing a very good job.. know the offical response is to keep cowboys out . But i feel a good sign written van,business cards,quotes on headed paper proof of insurance training etc gives customers confidence to use us.. if my thinking is wrong please tell me why?? thanks mick..
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Hi Mick,
Some are believers , some are not.
I personally am not a member partly because I would have to sit a beginners CC course to get in.
Others have been members and left.
There are also some strong advocates.
In reality I don't think it will affect your business either way whether you join or not.
Cheers,
Doug
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I signed up to the British Professional Carpet Cleaners Association on Ebay
Unlike NCCA Prochem Courses or in my case Ashbys Courses will get you in. Plus a valid insurance policy.
I believe that by insisting on this it helps to keep the so called Cowboys Out.
I cant remember if you have to have X yearsexperience.
Obviously at the moment it isa badge organization but if enough people join it could become as powerful as The NCCA. And hopefully get some PR in Home Imptovement Mags etc and local press. It helps to give you extra creditability in your advertising and voice messages Yellow Pages etc.
At present entry is Free, I have no idea if this is going to change.
However if The NCCA as prepared to change its entry rules perhaps there would be need for rival organizations.
Regretably if you have lost your certificates you might not be able to get in.
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but if enough people join it could become as powerful as The NCCA. And hopefully get some PR in Home Imptovement Mags etc and local press.
And Pigs might fly one day Ian!! ::)
However if The NCCA as prepared to change its entry rules perhaps there would be need for rival organizations.
What rules would you like them to change Ian?
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Ian,
Did a search on ebay for British Professional Carpet Cleaners Association but nothing came up can you tell me where i can get some ifo please?
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Just found it at:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Attention-Carpet-Cleaners-Carpet-Cleaning-Technicians_W0QQitemZ4404900438QQcategoryZ43015QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Martin S
There was a very long debate on The Forums about 9 month ago.
The NCCA listened.
We were told they were considering changes, nothing happened.
I do not want to start another debate as I personally do not want to knock NCCA
But if I could use one of your words if they were not some Pig headedthey could have a much wider experienced membership
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Mick. the fly in the oinment could be? The shamefull way that the insurance company's as a whole have rode roughshod over the ideals of almost every trade association, take just the NCCA, you cannot be a member without have valid insurance, now, what support has the insurance company's given to this mandatory rule? or any other bona-fidi trade association for that matter. Or is it the fault of the NCCA and others for not tackling the insurance company's head on?
Barry
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Never been asked for my insurance.
Never been asked what qualifies me to clean carpet.
Never been asked what association I belong to.
only once been asked how I would clean the carpet.
I’ve asked customers how their carpets were cleaned last time, couldn’t remember even thought turns out to be tuckmount (big thing) couldn’t remember firms name 4 months later.
only had one customer ask for no chemicals husband a doctor.
conclusion
They want clean carpets at a fair price( what they think is a fair price).
once you given them this they stay with you for ever even recommending you to their friends (if they can remember you)
Figure the rest out yourselves
IAN don’t have such a low value off your abilities.
You don’t need a association to prove your good.
Make your own up everybody else dose
Neil :P
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Neil,
I had no need to make my own up some one else did it for me.
Entry is similiar to NCCA
Reconized Training. Not just NCCA
Insurance
Not sure about Code of Conduct but this is covered by Law anyway
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Neil,
I had no need to make my own up some one else did it for me.
Entry is similiar to NCCA
Reconized Training. Not just NCCA
Insurance
Not sure about Code of Conduct but this is covered by Law anyway
Ian
Code of conduct covered by law, can you explain that one!
Best regards Nick
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We all bang on about you get what you pay for.
To join this is free.
:P ::)
How many members?
How do they operate with no money?
WHO are they?
Why are they doing this?
What have they done for you so far?
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Hi,
Is anyone else having difficulty loggin on to www.fibre-care.co.uk
Regards Tony Harrison
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Yep, can't access it, says page unavailable.
Gets worse doesn't it?
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Tony
Yes another Mickey Mouse out fit ;D ;D ;D
Len
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Looks like you are right Len
Regards Tony
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The Web Site was working last week. From time to time all Web Sites Crash.
Perhaps talking about it on this Forum and ebay has caused to many hits.
The founder is Nathan Danks.
He explains his reasons on the web site.
You can agree or disagree.
What it becomes wold be up to Nathan to start with, hopefully with input from members as it grows. The NCCA had to start somewhere.
If I remember correctly you had to have x years experience plus attended a reconized training course.
You have to send in proof. In fact I am in danger of being expelled as I have not sent in my proof, as I have been busy.
No funding concerns me, but there are many badge organizations that take your money and do nothing.
Nick what I meant was in the event of a dispute between Customer and member the Customer is governed by law.
Apart from joining I have no connection with the organization. But I am prepared to give it a chance to develop.
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To make it work members will be needed but only if they are good and practice what they preach, I wonder if the NCCA founder members all sat an exam to prove to each other that they knew there stuff?
Good on ya Ian, someone putting his money (or not) where his mouth is.
Shaun
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Big fish, little pond springs to mind.
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I have emailed Nathan Danks the founder, and have asked him to pop in to cleanitup and answer some of your questions.
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Does anyone know how many carpet cleaners there are in the country?
The numbers for this and other forums run into thousands, accepting that many are members of all forums.
With the membership of the NCCA counted in hundreds, according to their website.
Is not therefore a need for some organisation to fill the void?
I do not know whether the British Professional Carpet Cleaners Assocation will be the one to fill the void, but it is a step in the right direction.
Because of my location and scale of operation the costs of the NCCA are simply too great.
I have joined the BPCC.
Regards
John
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I looked on yell dot comm today for carpet cleaners in cornwall only 51 listed for the whole county :o
Neil
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Thank you neil
A similar search of ncca showed 3
Regards john
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Yes but Neil, dont forget there are some 30 manufactures all selling 10 machines a week and most of the office cleaners have had nearly an hours training.
Barry
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unfortunately unless you are in, ie paid the money, you will not see the benefits, it easy to knock the NCCA from the outside.
I joined after 10 years as a cc, with the view it was too much money. I was a member of the guild of master craftsmen and for a tenner more i left the guild and join the NCCA.
That was 7 years ago, and I would not leave the ncca now.
And I make back 20 times my annual subscription, but then I could be one of the lucky ones.
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Ian
Though I’m not a member of the ncca, so I can’t comment on the internal politics or how the org works, at lest one can choose to join or not your prerogative, over the years have come to know some names who are members/directors of the ncca, I would trust them more, than someone just starting out an org, haven’t even got a web site to drum up membership let alone use of the forums. E-bay is not one of the best ways to sell membership
I can understand why people get peeved but you need to belong first and only members can rock the cradle.
Can’t wait for Nathan Danks input!
Len
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Their website is up and running again. He seems to be a decent chap, and he loves his Prochem products.
He claims to have members in 19 regions, but doesn't list anyone, and says he has set up the organisation to show householders they aren't dealing with cowboys.
Believe it or not,because I know I like a moan on here!!, I think its unprofessional to put down other companies in your promotional material and this is exactly what he does and is a the main reason he gives for creating the BPCC. To use him above anyone else because he is trustworthy and the next guy might not be. Just by creating this org, I guess he is 'the main man' thus giving himself even more credibility in the eyes of customers.
I still think its a poorly thought out idea, which seems to offer very little. Can't believe anyone actually joined it, especially through Ebay.
I can't wait for him to appear on here either.
BUT.... If some of the respected posters on here wanted to start an organisation, then maybe in time something could be started to rival other operations because there seems to be a lot of disillusioned members around.
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The NCCA is the leading British Trade Organization for Carpet Cleaners.
Some get their money back through referals.
It has funding and a Head Office to give it Credibility.
In addition most of us have had the priveledge of meeting some of The Directors,
and they organized an excellent trade show, along with the window cleaners.
However a little competion is a good thing.
In the past people have talked about setting up a rival organization but nothing never happened.
Doug set up UK Carpet Cleaners not sure if this was intended just as a Web Site.
Nathan set up his organization and is at present promoting it on Ebay.
Gary finds that a bit unathordox thats fine.
I believe Nathan has shown inititiative I await to see how far it develops.
At least it may help THe NCCA with less people using their logo,
The Gu
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Hello
Check out ebay item 4406213038 (sorry I dont know how to give a link)
It seems others find ebay a good way to contact carpet and other cleaners.
Regards
John
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We saw it on Ebay and thought about joining too. We are not in the NCCA because we don't see the benefit to us or our customers.
We have 18 going on 19 years experience in the business. A guy near us has just started cleaning carpets. He has joined the NCCA. Who would you trust?
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Pattie although not a member of the ncca myself, i would have thought that
that the guy you are refering to , although only recently starting out in c.c
at least has the knowledge and skills to perform the task, after all surly thats what the ncca aims are, or at least one of their aims, to ensure their members are competant , insured and capable. and if any problems do arise they are there to help.
so in reality your posing of the question " who would you trust" is a little harsh :-\ :-\ ;) , after all I personaly have spoken to a number of c.c in my area
even the franchises, and believe me when i say alot of them are way behind in areas of new technoligy, i.e. micro spitters , low moister methods, no jet tool etc,
I get the strangest looks at times when micro splitters are mentioned, all this means really is they are stuck in their ways, and do not need to look further.
Having said all that , i do not mean they are not capable, they feel they ar ok as they are .
but i do see you point ;D
geoff
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Not knocking the NCCA but for a member isn't this one a bit cheap?
http://www.carpetkind.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Prices.htm
Shaun
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I couldnt even be bothered to read this post. Its the same old tripe that has been said over the past 6 years Ive been in this business.
Im in the NCCA and while it doesnt get me lots of work directly I make it work for me in my marketing AND IT DOES make a difference to the customer. I know because i ask them.
If Ive a problem I know Ive an official body to help me should the need arises and their newsletter is a good read too. Their website gives me a web presence and Ive got a few good jobs from it directly.
No association is going to give you lots of work but it has lots of other benefits not mentioned above. Sure its not perfect but whos willing to give their time for free to make a difference in this industry. Well who??
If every cleaner in your area got trained, insured and joined the NCCA would you be worried. I know I would.
Mark
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Well said Mark
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Hi Guys
I think that professional bodies are a great thing and I find it funny when people moan about them as members they have an input and if they like can take a part in the running.
One thing that many pro bodies could do is move with the times like phone call in's web chats etc. Normaly the relationship is with the member and the pro body. I think that why they come in for some much criticism is for this reason. they need to get the members talking with each other. And then listen to what is being said. Not everyone uses the web.
As has been said it take time and effort to run these organsitaions so why not let the members take part it off their hands. Iremember going to one or two london meets of BICSc very nice nice lunch meet people and get some great ideas and solve problems, but it take time out of your day. Networking has many advantages and with computers and pones systems these days it can be done without taking time to travel.
Respect
Ian Harper
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Ian,
The NCCA do have a web forum that members can participate in. Similar to this one.
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have just read all the replies to my post- thanks to all those who took the time to reply.. just to clarify things i was not slating them - i just asked the question - is it a worthwhile thing to belong to them, i wasnt just referring to ncca i was also thinking of things like woolsafe. Mark roberts referred to the post as tripe and could not be bothered to read it- then why bother to reply mark?? i would have messaged you privately mark but you havnt filled out your profile.. you said you have heard this over and over in the last six years- i have only been on this site since january so would not have been involved in preveous descussions. no doubt other new ccs joining this site will ask the same question in the future - it dosent encourage new comers to clean it up to ask more questions does it? i have read some other posts today which have had not so nice responses- i thought the idea of this site was to ask for advice/ take part in friendly discussions etc- perhaps i am wrong... mick
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Mick,
We try to keep it nice and friendly but there will be times when things written appear harsher than is probably intended.
Cheers
Doug
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From what I've seen of guys using the Ncca in their marketing...They have slated people that arnt members, and suggested to the public that they shouldnt hire people that arnt members...You can guess my feelings on the matter..Ive wanted to have a go about this for quite a while..bet they still got all their Boy scout badges too ;D
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Maybe the cc's who have never been asked for information about if they are a member of an organization or do they have any insurance are avoided by the customers that do take note of organizations,being a member of an organization gives you that extra string in your bow in customer presentation which comes across how seriously you take your work and having the expertise through the courses you have done before becoming a member.Your websites and information also comes up through search engines via NCCA ,Woolsafeetc.This is not detrimental to cc's who are not members,just showing some of advantages of being one.
cheers mark