Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: daniel b on September 09, 2005, 09:21:01 pm
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Newsnight BBC2 10.30 Workin at height Directive,should be interetin.
Daniel
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It may be informative but WAHD is never interesting.
I think I've read more about WAHD than anything else this year.
It's a cure for insomnia but I'll be watching all the same.
Yawn......
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where did you get the info from.
i am sat in the classroom at the back right wearing a white tee shirt with blue writing in the front.
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what i should of said is it should be interestin if i dont fall asleep,which i prob will.
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i watched max and paddy
far more entertaining ;)
when the pig lets rip in the van, pure class
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HOW DARE YOU! ;D ;D
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Its on now!!
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ANDREW LEE from nfwc buries his head in the sand advert for ionics Icould have done better with my video camara
GAZA
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What a load of tripe a.
Dan
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The ladders are back on the roof rack. ;D
Pj
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I just watched it.
What a pile of rubbish.
But ..... the bloke from the H & S answered the question acurately, and it was refreshing to hear, that if ladders are the best way to do the job, then that's perfectly ok in terms of w/c's provided they've looked at alternatives.
And before anyone asks, we use both WFP and trad methods.
I don't want to start a whole new debate about 'ladders mean death' or anything but there was no qualification about some statements they made. As in 'this study by x,y & z has showed' etc. It's always best to know where quoted facts come from and how they were compiled and most importantly, who compiled them.
I see Ionics got their plug in also.
They used old film stuff from the fifties or what ever. What was the point of that? To show w/c's as basically stupid?
All in all, nothing new.
Cheers
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Well summed up Ross. Let tht be the end of it....for now.
Pj
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What a load of crap, the H&S Officer of the Fed whole point about not using a safer way off cleaning was because bird crap...what a lot of crap.
Andy
PS calls him self a H&S officer dont think so.
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I am disappointed, but not entirely surprised.
To see Andrew Lee defending the use of ladders (while his employees behind him were using them at the wrong angle) is something I've come to expect.
I have also come to expect that certain committee members who live in c0ckermouth and employ 18 window cleaners that use ladders will be unlikely to put forward the use of water-fed poles for the simple reason that then they themselves would have to buy more systems.
I also noticed he mentioned that ladders could be used by window cleaners who were 60 years old and "only had a few years to go", and shouldnt have to bother with pole systems. Out of interest, does anyone else think that argument was the most ridiculous thing they've ever heard?
I know from personal experience that bird poo can easily be removed with WFP, so in my opinion it was misleading to state that it could not.
However, no matter what, there's no such thing as bad publicity and at very least this news item will bring the new WAH regs and WFP to the attention of the general public, and that's got to be a good thing.
-Philip
PS And darned George Formby in the background AGAIN!!
PPS Steve K - email
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Well summed up Ross. Let tht be the end of it....for now.
Pj
No, PJ, I think this is just the begining. I watched newsnight with trepidation and actually taped the programme.
From what I can gather the following occured:
BWCA said it was the end of ladder use. (Buy an Ionics system was the subliminal message that even Wor Lass received - and I've always been a champion of Craig Mawlam).
The Fed said ladders were best (the only positive thing I know they've done - for ladder users).
The head of health and safety said 'ladders are okay, as long as you consider the alternatives'.
So, ladders are okay! I'll re-watch and type a transcipt of what the head honcho of health and safety said tomorrow, when my 'beer' has worn off and when Wor Lass doesn't mind me going on the 'tinternet.
To Steve Kennedy;
Andrew Lee - apart from bird poo - also mentioned paint and other substances. I can understand why you're cross, but to be honest, I was worried that Newsnight would say ladders are banned! Thankfully, the head of health and safety said they were okay, or at least Newsnight said they were okay. I'll put a transcript here tomorrow.
I do agree with your statement though, but keep an open mind. Andrew Lee's comments might have been edited in such a way to show him to be a one-sided pro-ladder user.
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Hi Poleman
The H & S bloke was stating what the law actually is.
The rest was edited bits designed to show what the good old tv does best - an angle of opinion purely for gains (or not) of viewing figures.
I went next door to watch it.
Boy oh boy am I glad I don't own a TV and havn't for years. If you don't watch TV for years you see right through it and wonder why people watch it with such faith that 'opinion' is the truth or factual.
Hi Philip
Sorry to write this......
Do you have a vested interest in promoting WFP?
The ladder was at the wrong angle but the legs were in grass. I think they would have been very carefull, being under scrutiny to get exact advise, on what was the best place to put the ladder. Added to which the companies own H & S wouldn't allowed it.
Also, bird poo can be removed with wfp if you can see it. I live on the coast and the seagulls do loads of them. What looks ok at ground level can be misleading when you look from close up. Especially 2 or 3 floors up and I don't mean the big dollops but the ones that the rain has nearly removed. Or do WFP's have zoom eyes like Steve Austin?
As for that rotten sickening song .....
And the pathetic comment about self cleaning glass.........
Also, I do think that WFP is the way forward without a doubt.
Tosh - I agree.
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Think you will find in due time a NEW statment is coming out, by H&SE.
Andy
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Hi Poleman
I agree that different view points are valid but to say in the future a new H & S statement will appear is a bit like accepting a post dated cheque.
It may or may not be valid. There's no way of knowing from the present.
First of all why don't you say how you know this, or what it's content will be and how it may affect window cleaners who use ladders before making a statement.
Secondly what is the source of your information?
Thirdly, apart from the fact that some statement will at sometime appear about using ladders anyway, why are you privy to this information and how did you come to know it as a fact?
Sorry but I don't mean to question by why the secrecy?
Also, if you do know something isn't it best to share it as forewarned is always best.
Cheers
Ross
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Ross, no need to be sorry. I am open to all debate.
Do you have a vested interest in promoting WFP?
I don't believe you were a member of CIU when I first wrote to the Federation (an open letter) questioning why they had not discussed the new European Directive despite it being the most important piece of legislation affecting window cleaners for at least 20 years. And also questioning why, despite the revolution that was unfolding before their eyes, they had not discussed the use of Pole systems. Instead they chose to use "Window Talk" to print stories about foxes eating cakes and even re-print articles from 25 years ago.
Anyway, it caused something of a storm at the time, you can read it here:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2859.0
Because it seemed that the Fed were simply not interested in what its members thought, I decided to do something about it myself. The plain fact was, that other than these forums that we now have (which I think are a real breath of fresh air for window cleaning) there was no definitive source of information. Window cleaners were crying out for that.
I'll be honest with you, I believe that WFP is not only the way forward for window cleaners, but that it is the NOW for window cleaners too. I have consistently held this belief despite the barrage of criticism I have been subjected to because of it. I believe that a forward thinking window cleaner and a responsible editor MUST be seen to be promoting the best practice, and I don't care what anyone thinks, WFP is clearly best practice for almost all window cleaning situations. It is precicely because the Fed have not promoted best practice that they are now looking out-dated and at odds with the industry.
The interest I have in promoting WFP is this: I will never have to think of a window cleaner having died as a result of a fall from height and think to myself "Could I have helped to prevent that?" The interest I have is that if I did not promote a method that was clearly the safest and becomming widely accepted, then I would have no credibility at all. I accept ads from WFP companies and hand tool suppliers just the same as the fed do, but I promote the use of WFP where possible simply because it is, in my opinion, the best way of working for window cleaners, and I'll happily defend that position to anyone.
think they would have been very carefull, being under scrutiny to get exact advise, on what was the best place to put the ladder. Added to which the companies own H & S wouldn't allowed it.
Advice from who? Those were Andrew Lee's employees - he IS the H&S officer of the Fed, and the ladder WAS at the incorrect angle (which is 75 degrees from the vertical).
I can understand that it would be difficult to believe, but yes you DID see the Fed's H&S officer on National TV with his employees breaking the H&S regs by not using the ladder at the correct angle.
-Philip
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Does anyone know how to save the film from the newsnight website
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newsnight comments page.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_3990000/newsid_3993900/3993909.stm
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Hi Poleman
I agree that different view points are valid but to say in the future a new H & S statement will appear is a bit like accepting a post dated cheque.
It may or may not be valid. There's no way of knowing from the present.
First of all why don't you say how you know this, or what it's content will be and how it may affect window cleaners who use ladders before making a statement.
Secondly what is the source of your information?
Thirdly, apart from the fact that some statement will at sometime appear about using ladders anyway, why are you privy to this information and how did you come to know it as a fact?
Sorry but I don't mean to question by why the secrecy?
Also, if you do know something isn't it best to share it as forewarned is always best.
Cheers
Ross
Ross,
There was a meeting between the H&SE & Fed, which is well know by many window cleaners, it seems you did not know.
Andy
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Hi Philip
Very interesting. You make some really valid points. I suppose sometimes to have a vested interest can be a good thing.
Still, the bird poo point remains but I do think that the public will eventually have to accept that somethings will have to be.
In the end, I think that ladders will be a thing of the past as far as professional people are concerned.
The only tinge of doubt I have is that there are as yet, no real facts regarding injuries from using WFP.
Someone I know near where I live seriously tore a muscle in his back and won't work again. He done that injury using WFP and as is the case with the self employed, injuries and their recording is dependant on what is said at the hospital.
A sudden gust of wind blew the pole sideways and to try and stop it potentially going through or hitting a glass roof over a cafe he done his back in.
He is now 40 years old and has been told that by the time he is 60, that injury will be disabling and that in turn could, just could, affect his life expectancy due to the mechanical action of having to breathe to excercise the lungs.
The point I am making is that with WFP there could be hidden facts that as yet are not apparent because it is so new and to quote simply how many fall from ladders and those statistics could be misleading.
At least my friend didn't die.
Also, could more deaths be prevented by falls from ladders by a more serious approach and by viewing it simply not as just 'going up a ladder to clean afew windows' but rather as something that requires thought at all times.
I am a quailified absailing instructor and imagine the statistics if I had a slack approach?
When rock climbing, absailing down is veiwed as the last resort from a safety angle yet people now absail for fun and charity.
Also, an intersting statistic is that most deaths occur under (I think - I don't have the bit of paper in front of me) 2 metres. If not then it's 3 metres. One of the 2 but anyway, a H & S study (and I can provide the paper on it) stated that most feel safe at relivately low hieghts and so were less carefull.
Is there that danger with WFP that most think they cannot fall so they become slack in how they use their bodies and suffer injuries as a result so as you end up with more serious and less serious injuries but less deaths? The reason I write that is the using of WFP is not condusive to healthy posture while working and of that, there is no doubt just as in supermarkets the checkout people and how they work is a time bomb in terms of RSI.
I can't escape the fact that there can only be less deaths from WFP and that cannot be disputed.
Hi Poleman
There was a meeting between the H&SE & Fed, which is well know by many window cleaners, it seems you did not know.
Andy
What was said? Thanks.
Cheers
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Hi david@ St-Ives
I am interested to know also how you record (I didn't know you could) from the interent.
All I know is the on and off thing I have to use to turn my pc on and off.
I still can't get over how I have to click on 'start' to turn the thing off.
Cheers
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Its was a closed meeting and only they know, but is due out shortly.
Andy
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I've just re-watched the newsnight programme from last night and it is obvious that Andrew Lee certainly puts across his personal point that his business is not for turning to WFP.
I think it is wrong that Andrew made this point whilst wearing his NFMW&GC hat and the fed now need to clarify to all its members if that is there combined opinions and the standing of the fed as a whole. If it is then all pole users should be looking at a different federation that has a more positive view of the use of WFP.
It was also obvious that the HSE are unwilling to say that ladders cannot be used, providing you carry out an assessment of alternatives. That assessment will now come to the conclusion that:
"There was "impacted dirt" on the window that could not be removed by any other means so I had to use my ladders to get the necessary close up abrasive action"
Customers are always sceptical about new technology and any that have seen this programme and get their windows cleaned using a pole will now be examining their windows more closely, spotting and complaining about any "impacted dirt" that has not been removed and possibly going back to using someone that goes up a set of ladders, because contrary to what we have been trying to tell them all this time, "ladders can be used, it said so on the telly!!"
ps: we use both WFP and ladders and I am currently in the process of sourcing and buying a second 650ltr van mount system for a significant capital outlay
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I'm selling all my gear - and getting a fleet of bikes with guys loaded up with 6 ft points ;D this is the way it's going to go - what with petrol going through the roof .....
I can get bird muck off - but then I'm a PRO ;)LOL
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JSM,
I've got a bike hire business as a side line and we're changing all our bikes at the end of this season, give me a call I'll do you a good deal!!! You'll have to source the tin buckets yourself
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ross sorry to hear about theinjury to man but it only goes to highlight h&s risk asses & method statement.
on risk asses /method if one man operation he can not get risk down as far as business with two men .
poles do not make you safe once poles go to over 30 ft i believe it to be 2 man job and would right up as so
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and in most cases right up jobs as 2 man even for lower work as best to have man watching back and as lookout for general public and keeping eye on hose and feeding it to pole man this reduces risk
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Does anyone know how to save the film from the newsnight website
The only way that I know is if you are using windows xp,
if you are then what I do is connect the computer to the tv and chang the out put to the tv so that the tv becomes the monitor then put a video or dv recorder between the two,
Can't tell you what buttons to press at the moment as I can't find them
I used to put the curser over the desk top and press the right btn on the mouse and select propeties and go from there, I think
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I am proposing that Andrew Lee be forced to resign from the Fed for his comments. He has damaged many window cleaners business and will cost alot of people including myself a lot of money. He has suggested that you can't remove bird muck from windows!!! What a stupid, ignorant statement.
He should take off that shirt and tie, roll up his sleeves and try using the equipment for himself. Those who bother to learn the correct technique have no trouble removing bird muck. And, if you can't see the window, may I suggest a pair of glasses?
The Fed should not forget that they are supposed to represent ALL window cleaners. Perhaps it is because people will buy less of their squeegies and scrims in future that they have decided to mis-represent water-fed poles. Last time I checked they weren't selling water-fed systems.
Well said Steve,
My main area is WFP, however, we do traditional also. I am also a member of the FED, but as time goes on, I wonder why.
The comment about bird muck is bang out of order. I have removed more of this with a wfp than I have had hot dinners. Simply wet the muck, clean the next window, go back and clean the muck and it is gone.
Also with reference to stickers!! What type of stickers??? Because the stickers you get on new windows only need to be soaked for a couple of mins, then they simply brush off. The glue reacts to the water and disperses.
I have never had any complaints from any of my customers, in fact I always receive praise on how clean their windows are and how amazed they are that they stay clean longer than the traditional clean.
I see the FED must also condone inappropriate scraping of windows!!! The clip of the window cleaner scarping the top left corner of the window, will remove whatever was on it, but his up and down technique constantly on the window would lead to scratches
Well despite everything, my poles are my investment for the safety of me and my staff.
Andrew
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Just to let you know that i am currently recording the website repeat of the show.
I will try and get a chance to edit it so it is just the spot on WFP,s.
I am not sure if i can post it here.
The file size maybe 5 to 19 MBs. Do any of you use bit torrent as i will be able to create a torrent file later which you can dowload.
Anyhow will post back later to let you know how things are going.
PS. Ladder angle seems okay to me ( I do use wfp aswell as trad) seems secure
Lee
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The Interview was right when he told Andrew " Your Talking Sh-it"
What a thing to say that bird muck cant be removed with a WFP, someone needs to tell him that you can remove it and you can also place a scraper on the end of a pole as well.
Soon as i lose a large contract and get told due to Andrew Lee and the Fed I will seek lose of earnings through the court, I would urge you to do the same.
God knows what the suppliers are thinking and the amount of damage he has done them with all the window cleaners watching the show last night.
Feel abit sorry for the ones that are memebers and use a WFP he is laughing at you lot.
JUstin
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The Interview was right when he told Andrew " Your Talking Sh-it"
What a thing to say that bird muck cant be removed with a WFP, someone needs to tell him that you can remove it and you can also place a scraper on the end of a pole as well.
In Andrew Lee's defence, he also mentioned that paint and putty are impossible to remove with a WFP and that the distance from the WFP operator to the window meant that it was difficult or impossible to see what dirt was left on the window.
I think Andrew Lee's comments were used by the BBC to provide 'balance' to what could've been an extremely pro WFP news item. Obviously 'pro WFP' is not every window cleaner's opinion; therefore the news clip required the opposing point of view.
What I didn't like was the 'urine extracting' reporter at BWCA going up the stairs and saying in hushed tones, '...and up here is where we learn about ... the theory of window cleaning'.
He was obviously taking the 'Mick'.
Anyway, I'm considering drafting a letter to all local businesses along the lines of:
"As recently reported on BBC Newnight, WFP's cannot clean windows as good as old fashioned traditional methods; therefore if you want your windows cleaned properly; call us on ...."
What do you reckon?
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Go for it.
Justin
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as recently reported on newsnight "you should only use ladders when all other options have been considered first "
it dont bother me ,but everyone can pick out a snipet and twist it to there advantage .i think you have to watch it as a whole.
the reporter mentioned sh-it ,he thought he was being funny .at the expense of something serious. It was not mentioned in the reply.
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In Andrew Lee's defence, he also mentioned that paint and putty are impossible to remove with a WFP and that the distance from the WFP operator to the window meant that it was difficult or impossible to see what dirt was left on the window.
I have to agree, to a point, yes, however I own a power pole which has a attment with a window scraper, which can easly do first floor, but what he said he is basing his whole point on not using a safer way, because of stickers ie: when most window cleaners dont come across in there day to day normal window cleaning.
Andy
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he also stated that applied to the most difficult to rech windows.
not every window
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You can not do a builders cleans with a WFP that we know, OK if this agrument is stopping our indusrty being, then A/ hand this over to the window fitters or B/ say right ladders have to be used but with a stabliser top and bottom, THEN we can move forward in a safe manner as a indusrty as a whole.
Andy
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This highly qualified window cleaner from the fed states that wfp uses cannot remove bird muck and paint from the glass, well I can and this is the secret to doing it.
1 Wet the glass and bird muck or paint with the wfp
2 Leaves for a couple of minutes
3 Attached a scraper to the end of pole
4 Gently scape the bird muck or paint from glass
5 Re-attach the cleaning brush to the pole and rinse away the residue.
Now after you have read this your computer will self destruct.
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Okay for those out there that have not seen this report or are looking for a copy on there Pc visit the following link
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lee.overton2/newsnight.htm
Here you will be able to download a 6 min clip from last nights newsnight show.
Its 11 Mb in size and in wmv format. Will play on media player in other words
Hope its of use
Lee
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Iwas the first one to put a post on here last night about the programme,having read all the comments IM FED UP TO THE BACK TEETH ABOUT FED MEMBERS HARKING ON ABOUT HOW A BAD SERVICE THEY RECIEVE FOR THEIR MONEY {DONT PAY IT THEN].
If thats the best defence the fed can give ,then I FIND THEM GUILTY of gross neglience to their members,If I WERE A MEMBER AND USED WFP I would cancel membership strait away.
Because of the damage he may have done to my buissness I will be phoning them up on Monday to lodge my complaint with them and I encourage everyone else to do the same.
Ive never had trouble with birds ;) ;D it cleans it of better than scraping it off no chance of scratching glass,as for not cleaning
what about the pvc soffits,frames and conservatorys you do with them?
If I wanted to give the w/c world an annemimma Ii would put the pipe into LEES MOUTH OR TOSHES bucket ;D GAZA
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Having just watched the programe, I think that all wfp uses can make a claim for damages, from the window cleaning federation, because their spokesman has stated that wfp systems cannot clean impacted dirt from the windows.
All cleaner who use a pole whether its conected to a wfp system or not know that this is not correct and to remove bird muck- paint - labels or whatever is very easy. I have removed baked in eggs from someones windows and wall when they were egged by a neighbours kid.
I would suggest that all wfp uses who are affected by the federation spokesperson comments and lose business because of it, should get together and start a class action lawsuit for lose of earnings and damages.
I am happy to supply my customers details and the police report that stated the eggs stains were removed by my wfp method of cleaning.
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tosh:Im writing one as well re news night TOSH is the cause of impacted dirt,To remove impact dirt change his water pmsl.[having a lauff]
gaza
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I have not watched the programme yet so cant really comment but im interested in this bird poop issue, bird poop is hard to get off traditionally, the birds have got all that space
why do they have to poop all over the windows its worse when they eat those purple berries. Better go and watch newsnight
Just leave you with this - i was once asked what do you do if a bird poops on your car window i replied dont take her out again !!! ;D ;D ;D
Brett
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Having just watched the programe, I think that all wfp uses can make a claim for damages, from the window cleaning federation, because their spokesman has stated that wfp systems cannot clean impacted dirt from the windows.
All cleaner who use a pole whether its conected to a wfp system or not know that this is not correct and to remove bird muck- paint - labels or whatever is very easy. I have removed baked in eggs from someones windows and wall when they were egged by a neighbours kid.
I would suggest that all wfp uses who are affected by the federation spokesperson comments and lose business because of it, should get together and start a class action lawsuit for lose of earnings and damages.
I am happy to supply my customers details and the police report that stated the eggs stains were removed by my wfp method of cleaning.
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I have not watched the programme yet so cant really comment but im interested in this bird nuts issue, bird nuts is hard to get off traditionally, the birds have got all that space
why do they have to nuts all over the windows its worse when they eat those purple berries. Better go and watch newsnight
Just leave you with this - i was once asked what do you do if a bird nutss on your car window i replied dont take her out again !!! ;D ;D ;D
Brett
Bird 'nuts'?????
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i cannot see the issues
the FED dont want us using water fed stuff, they miss out on selling scrims and GG etc, and most who join the fed do so for the cheaper insurance etc
we all understand this, and its accepted, the FED are stuck in the past, must be good for them, as they will get to experience the Manchester 1990 scene soon ;) rave on folks
seriously though, it doesnt matter who is in charge of the FED, they are only in it for a few nights out etc in the name of meetings
Oh and this bird crap issue, its not rocket science, if you use a unger pole, disconnect the brush, attach a under scraper and scrap the stubborn stuff off, i must have to do that ever other week, most comes off with a "pre soak and a scrub with the brush" :) :) to those who dont use the unger pole, hell phone up "your system maker" and ask them to sell you something similar for 50 quid
job done, end of story
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Solo
excellent effort .thanks mate.
i tried to do it ,but it wasn`t having it .
dave
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Thanks Dave
Its nice to be appreciated
Lee
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Thanks Dave
Its nice to be appreciated
Lee
ive spent about 3 hours trying to setup my TV card to capture the thing from online
no need now
many thanks from me ;)
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oh and i still stand by my first opinion
max and paddy much more entertaining ;)
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This highly qualified window cleaner from the fed states that wfp uses cannot remove bird muck and paint from the glass, well I can and this is the secret to doing it.
1 Wet the glass and bird muck or paint with the wfp
2 Leaves for a couple of minutes
3 Attached a scraper to the end of pole
4 Gently scape the bird muck or paint from glass
5 Re-attach the cleaning brush to the pole and rinse away the residue.
Now after you have read this your computer will self destruct.
You could pass on this information to Andrew Lee himself. I'm sure he'd be interested. You can contact him via his website:
http://www.jaleeltd.co.uk/
I still think he added a balanced view of window cleaning to the Newsnight clip.
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I have not watched the programme yet so cant really comment but im interested in this bird nuts issue, bird nuts is hard to get off traditionally, the birds have got all that space
why do they have to nuts all over the windows its worse when they eat those purple berries. Better go and watch newsnight
Just leave you with this - i was once asked what do you do if a bird nutss on your car window i replied dont take her out again !!! ;D ;D ;D
Brett
Bird 'nuts'?????
yes bird nuts thats what i meant to say sorry :-X :-X
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So these guys at the fed are saying if you don`t use a ladder you are not a "master window cleaner",surely if we are thinking more about health &safety it is more of a professional approach to our job,they might aswell change it to "The National Federation of Master Ladder users",because we still use traditional methods aswell,there will always be a bucket,pad,blade and scrim in my van,Gaz.
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It wasn't made clear if Andrew Lee's views were personal opinion or the Federation's.
However, if he's a board member in charge of Health and Safety (so I believe), then his views must represent the Federations - or there is a huge conflict of interest between Andrew Lee's business and the welfare of other window cleaners affected by his Health and Safety related statement on Newsnight.
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HOW CAN YOU BE A MASTER,WHEN ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS:
NAME ; FRED
SECOND NAME FRED
SURNAME BLOGGS
ADDRESS,SOMEWHEREDOWN
HIGH ST
NEVER NEVER LAND
AGE 16
CONGRATS YOU ARE NOW A MASTER WINDOW CLEANER.
BY THE WAY SOMEWHERE DOWN IS THE NAME OF MY BROTHERS
HOUSE HE DOESNT HAVE A NO,THINK OF THE FUN HE HAS WHEN HE GETS STOPPED BY THE POLICE ;D
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Okay for those out there that have not seen this report or are looking for a copy on there Pc visit the following link
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lee.overton2/newsnight.htm
Works a treat thanks
HOW did you do that ?
It wasn't made clear if Andrew Lee's views were personal opinion or the Federation's
I don't see that it makes a diffrence as during the interview the Nation federation of window cleaner was on screen..
From my personal point of view I was not going to renew this year any way (better mag out now)(get more help and info fromthis forum)(thier plus points to join have never helped me)
but the final nail was the newsnight interview, Asa pole and traditional window cleaner all I could hear (and I,m sure possible new customers)WFP don't work and that comes from the Window cleaning federation..(it said so at the btm of the screen..
By the way a point I checked out his web site and he promotes WFP as one of his systems to clean windows (I hope he has customers asking why he's using them if they don't work?
Alan
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Hi Graham
I used a programme called Hidownload. Its useful for capturing streaming media on the internet. I then edited it using windows own movie maker programme.
If you want a more indepth explanation email me overtonl@hotmail.com
Lee
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thanks solo ur a star. still confused though!